Author Topic: The Matrix Revolutions (Read 18816 times)

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #25 on:** November 06, 2003, 11:27:22 AM »

Who you're talking to.

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #26 on:** November 06, 2003, 11:29:17 AM »

You, of course!

I just found it funny that you have actually spent the time looking into such a theological film, Mr. "I don't care for religion."

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #27 on:** November 06, 2003, 11:38:58 AM »

I enjoy reading about the history of religion, though- I like reading the stories in the Bible, but I generally ignore whatever spiritual and religious morals it's trying to impress on me.

Hence, I really enjoy the story of the Matrix, and am interested by it's religious references, just as long as it's not preaching. I generally just ignore the double meaning of all the religious things anyway, though.

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #28 on:** November 06, 2003, 11:42:51 AM »

Actually, I don't think The Matrix was concentrating specifically on one religion, but rather on religion as a whole. The belief of a higher being in general, if you will...And it's that which caught my eye in the first place...

nolimit19 · « **Reply #29 on:** November 06, 2003, 01:18:45 PM »

POSSIBLE SPOILERS!!!

any reference to religion in the matrix shouldnt be taken too seriously imo. it does draw parallells....like neo coming back from the dead to save humanity. its like christianity meets secular humanism. if you are religious, you may consider it sacreligious. i know a few people who do. just dont think too deeply about it, because there is not that much there....but anyways the 2nd movie was a huge let down, which will probably lead to me loving the 3rd because i basically have no expectations for the final movie.

Grey Ninja · « **Reply #30 on:** November 06, 2003, 02:40:33 PM »

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Originally posted by: Termin8Anakin

I was confused by that whole darn ending. I mean, is that city a new one, rebuilt from the machine city, from the real world or is it the 'new' Matrix? And that HUGE spike head machine - is that the Architect? I think I get it, in that the Oracle, Achitect, Sereph and that little girl were not part of the real world or the Martix, so that is why they survived. When Smith takes over the Oracle, did that mean that she was the one that killed him in the end? Or when Smith took over Neo then NEO was the one wo defeated Smith in the same manner he did in the first movie?

The city at the end was The Matrix. Restored to it's former glory. It was basically to show that the people who Agent Smith had taken over survived, and were themselves again. The reason that Neo and Smith were both KILLED at the end of the movie is because it is exactly as the Oracle said. Smith was the negative Neo, Neo's polar opposite. When they existed in the same space, they cancelled eachother out. Much like a matter/anti-matter reaction.

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Originally posted by: Termin8Anakin

I think the best part of the movie was when Trinity drives up through the clouds, and they see the real, sunlit sky for the first time. It just gave me goosebumps from that good feeling.

Agreed. That part totally rocked. I remember clearly thinking something when that happened, but I don't remember what it was now. But that part was magnificent.

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Originally posted by: Termin8Anakin

Did Neo really die? I mean, the deal with the 'Architect' was to destroy their common enemy - Smith - who could now take over beings from the real world as well (Bane). If he failed to defeat Smith, then the machines could kill him. So did he really die? All we see is this huge flash of light in Neo's 'fire-vision'.

Yes, Neo died. It was the only thing that made sense to happen. If ever in some sequel they bring him back to life, I will be VERY upset for reasons I already mentioned.

Regarding religion in The Matrix... It was done in a Japanese style, treating religion as a mythos rather than an ethos. As a result, it becomes a STORY rather than a BELIEF. Therein lies the difference.

Termin8Anakin · « **Reply #31 on:** November 06, 2003, 02:46:06 PM »

The whole aspect of Neo himself is a reference to Christ.
In the first movie, Morpheus says to Neo that the Matrix was created with a man born inside, who could do and change anything. When he died, Oracle prophsized his return. So Neo is basically the 'Second Coming'.

The difference with Neo and the previous 'Ones' is that while they all had the basic human capability of choice (the two doors in the Architect's place), Neo would have been the first 'One' to choose going back to the MAtrix to try and save it instead of going back to the Source. His decision was based on his love for Trinity. The other 'Ones' knew what they had to do, and did it, and i reckon, with no questions asked.

Probably the underlaying message is that being human automatically gives you choice. You know what you have to do - you know what your purpose is - and every choice you make in life will ultimately lead to the completion of that purpose.
For example, if you want to be a 3D Animator when you grow up, every choice you make, the subjects you do at school/Uni/College will help you to achieve that goal.
Some things, however, do not go to plan and you try something else in order to achieve your goal.
Neo's basic understanding of his purpose was that he would end the war. HE went to the Architect, and found out that in order to end the war, he would have to end Zion, and create it again (be apart of the new MAtrix). BEcause that was not what he thought it would be, he went back into the Matrix to try again.

Termin8Anakin · « **Reply #32 on:** November 06, 2003, 02:51:12 PM »

Ahhhh, thanks Ninja, I get that Smith-Neo bit now.
One other thing I wanna ask is that
the Architect and Oracle discuss freeing the others from the MAtrix. The Architect says that he keeps his promises - does that mean everyone will be freed, and the machines will have to find another energy source?

Grey Ninja · « **Reply #33 on:** November 06, 2003, 02:59:12 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Termin8Anakin
Ahhhh, thanks Ninja, I get that Smith-Neo bit now.
One other thing I wanna ask is that
the Architect and Oracle discuss freeing the others from the MAtrix. The Architect says that he keeps his promises - does that mean everyone will be freed, and the machines will have to find another energy source?

My interpretation of that is a line from the second movie. "There are levels of survival that we are prepared to accept." The machines kept their word, and spared Zion. The Architect will keep his word and free any people who do not wish to remain in the Matrix. Of course, there will always be people who wish to remain there, so it's not like the machines will be completely depleted of power. (Besides, I always wondered why they didn't use nuclear reactors. It would be ever so much more efficient than using people, but I guess that wouldn't make for a good story.)

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #34 on:** November 06, 2003, 04:07:11 PM »

SPOILERS!!

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Actually, I don't think The Matrix was concentrating specifically on one religion, but rather on religion as a whole. The belief of a higher being in general, if you will...And it's that which caught my eye in the first place...

If anything I'd see it as a message AGAINST organized religion (although I know that's not true)- the whole idea of a small group of beings keeping you under control for their own survival. Like I said, I know that's not what the Wachowski's meant, but you could interpret it as such.

Grey: Nuclear reactors are very unstable and can have very horrorific accidents that result in radioactive contamination. Besides, a source of power that simultaneously energizes the robots AND enslaves the human is a good one- remember, the robots wanted complete freedom from humans, not just an alternate power source. That, and it would've been a boring story otherwise.

ThePerm · « **Reply #35 on:** November 06, 2003, 04:11:04 PM »

1 + (-1) = 0

ok heres what i gathered happened. Did you wonder if neo died. Well he did. All things must come to an end....eventually. When smith copies himself he moves the controlling copy onto the next host. Inside smith was
the oracle and the little girl and serif...also neo would exist in soem realm of his mind. Neo was plugged into the machine
and was under the watch of the Face...not necassarilly the architect...the matrix as a whole. When smith got downloaded to neos brain harddrive that put smith in the real world and at a disadvantage. The matrix seperates all the personalities inside neo and deletes the master smith program. It is unclear whether neo dies or not......however it is unimportant.

Hostile Creation · « **Reply #36 on:** November 06, 2003, 04:13:12 PM »

NO! You did it wrong! The movie is ruined for me now!!!!

thesos21 · « **Reply #37 on:** November 06, 2003, 04:20:08 PM »

SPOILERS!!!

So the Matrix still exists after the war. I thought one of the main things they were fighting for in all the movies was to free the minds of everyone from the Matrix. Wasn't a main point that humans are all slaves to the machines? I know the machines came together with the humans with the common purpose of defeating Smith, but the machines still hold humans as slaves. Could someone explain how this all ends up good for everyone?

Thanks

Grey Ninja · « **Reply #38 on:** November 06, 2003, 04:36:59 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: thesos21
SPOILERS!!!

So the Matrix still exists after the war. I thought one of the main things they were fighting for in all the movies was to free the minds of everyone from the Matrix. Wasn't a main point that humans are all slaves to the machines? I know the machines came together with the humans with the common purpose of defeating Smith, but the machines still hold humans as slaves. Could someone explain how this all ends up good for everyone?

Thanks

You can use spoiler tags by using the "[" square brackets, and typing spoiler within them, and closing them as appropriate.

The humans who wish to leave the matrix are free to do so. To those who don't wish to live in the real world, they are also free to do so. The humans win in the sense that they have the freedom to do as they wish.

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Grey: Nuclear reactors are very unstable and can have very horrorific accidents that result in radioactive contamination. Besides, a source of power that simultaneously energizes the robots AND enslaves the human is a good one- remember, the robots wanted complete freedom from humans, not just an alternate power source. That, and it would've been a boring story otherwise.

Yes, you hit it right on the nail with that last one. But machines are not sadistic overlorlds. Any intelligent AI will take in the variables, and analyze the best course of action by judging the cost to benefit ratio. Nuclear power is cheap, and the effects of a catastrophic disaster would have little effect on a world already ravaged by nuclear war. Radioactive contamination does NOTHING to a computer.

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #39 on:** November 06, 2003, 04:40:16 PM »

Huh, I figured the radioactivity would have done something, at least to the delicate circuitry. And while it's true that machines aren't sadistic overlords, they don't want the humans to retain their former status of dominance over them.

thesos21 · « **Reply #40 on:** November 06, 2003, 04:45:47 PM »

SPOILERS!!!

So I assume the real world is still dark and cloudy. Why would anyone want to live there? Will the machines and humans somehow make the real world better again?

Grey Ninja · « **Reply #41 on:** November 06, 2003, 04:52:38 PM »

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Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
Huh, I figured the radioactivity would have done something, at least to the delicate circuitry. And while it's true that machines aren't sadistic overlords, they don't want the humans to retain their former status of dominance over them.

A dead human is a harmless human.

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So I assume the real world is still dark and cloudy. Why would anyone want to live there? Will the machines and humans somehow make the real world better again?

Realistically speaking, I would think that the surface of the earth would be much like Venus by that point. Raining pure hydrosulphuric acid, and temperatures that would melt steel in a couple of seconds.

But speaking in terms of the movie, I say, yeah sure why not?

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #42 on:** November 06, 2003, 04:57:20 PM »

But you just said even machines are sadistic overlords.

Also, I'd imagine Earth being more like a nuclear winter- from the look of the sky, I don't think it would act as a greenhouse, but rather as a shield, blocking out heat altogether. I could be wrong, though.

Grey Ninja · « **Reply #43 on:** November 06, 2003, 05:00:37 PM »

No, I said machines are NOT sadistic overlords.

I suppose you are right about the sky though. I have had a lot to drink, so bear with me. I guess that the earth would be more like Titan.

thesos21 · « **Reply #44 on:** November 06, 2003, 05:02:24 PM »

SPOILERS!!!

So would humans go back to living there? If not, where do all the free humans live. It seems the Matrix would be the better place even if you're not free.

Grey Ninja · « **Reply #45 on:** November 06, 2003, 05:04:10 PM »

USE FREAKING SPOILER TAGS!!!!

But some people seem to like realism or some crap like that. Personally, I would pick the Matrix any day of the week, but whatever.

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #46 on:** November 06, 2003, 05:06:19 PM »

Correct, MC...Just think back to what happened to the dinosaurs...They died out because it grew cold(the sun was blocked by debris shifted after the meteorite hit)...So if anything, it should be cold, not hot

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #47 on:** November 06, 2003, 05:14:54 PM »

Gah, sorry ninja- I have problems with contractions.

I meant ythat you said they weren't sadistic overlords. Sorry.

Titan? As in with gas lakes?

I suppose Titan would be the best comparison, though.

Grey Ninja · « **Reply #48 on:** November 06, 2003, 05:21:06 PM »

fair enough. The logical course of action in that case is to wipe out the human race, and use nuclear fission to generate power. The first movie said that fusion power was used with the human energy, but I really fail to see how that works at all, so I am sticking with the fusion idea. I was an engineering student, so it's not like I am totally stupid about such things.

nolimit19 · « **Reply #49 on:** November 06, 2003, 05:21:47 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
SPOILERS!!

If anything I'd see it as a message AGAINST organized religion (although I know that's not true)- the whole idea of a small group of beings keeping you under control for their own survival. Like I said, I know that's not what the Wachowski's meant, but you could interpret it as such.

well i dont mean to burst your bubble but i think the people that belong to a religion are in the majority. any effort against religion is a group of small people going against the majority. there are over 4.6 billion christians, islamic, jews, hindu, and buddist alone....out of 6 billion, and thats not including a lot of the smaller religions.

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Author Topic: The Matrix Revolutions (Read 18816 times)