Author Topic: The Matrix Revolutions (Read 18879 times)

Grey Ninja · « **Reply #50 on:** November 06, 2003, 05:37:22 PM »

nolimit, I don't think Mouse Clicker phrased it properly, but his point was correct. Religion says that there is one guy who controls all the world (God). He has the power to do whatever he wishes to the world, but people maintain their free will. The Matrix presents that as it SHOULD be seen, with God being a race of intelligent machines, and they have the power to do whatever they wish through clever coding. The thing I think Mouse was trying to say was that religion was treated as Mythos rather than Ethos, as it is commonly accepted.

nolimit19 · « **Reply #51 on:** November 06, 2003, 05:39:41 PM »

oohhhhhh...now that makes more sense.

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #52 on:** November 06, 2003, 05:43:46 PM »

Uh, right, that's what I meant.

Seriously, though, Ninja explained it pretty well, although the main point I was trying to make was about organized religion itself rather than God, although that's very fitting as well. Organized religion is ruled by a select few who tell all its followers how to live, what to do, how to dress, etc, etc. It's really more an allusion to Catholocism than anything else.

Also, Ninja, doesn't nuclear fusion generate infinitely more power than nuclear fission? We've already employed nuclear fission as a means of power, but not nuclear fusion yet. The sun works by nuclear fusion, and its power will last many billions of years.

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #53 on:** November 06, 2003, 05:53:13 PM »

I don't see how the machines could be analogous to God...It wouldn't make much sense for Jesus(Neo) to fight God(Machines) now would it?

ThePerm · « **Reply #54 on:** November 06, 2003, 05:55:06 PM »

ooooh

nolimit19 · « **Reply #55 on:** November 06, 2003, 05:57:04 PM »

yea the machines are satan if anything(at least if you are looking at it from a christian stand point)...they represent his will to create havoc and chaos.

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #56 on:** November 06, 2003, 05:58:08 PM »

There's already a Satan, though- the French guy from Reloaded (can't remember his name). If anything, I think the humans are more god and the machines are their creations, who revolt, and Neo (ala Christ) must come to make them see the error of their ways. That's just another way of looking at it.

nolimit19 · « **Reply #57 on:** November 06, 2003, 06:03:03 PM »

hmmmm....well maybe the system as a whole just represents evil....similar in christianity where they dont just believe in satan, but demonic angels as well. so its a collective group. satan is just their leaders.

Grey Ninja · « **Reply #58 on:** November 06, 2003, 06:03:59 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Bill
I don't see how the machines could be analogous to God...It wouldn't make much sense for Jesus(Neo) to fight God(Machines) now would it?

Come on. It's not a precise depiction of Christianity.

Mouse Clicker, Fusion power produces a lot more power than fission (but not infinitely), but from the explanation given in the first movie, I don't see how that's possible.

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #59 on:** November 06, 2003, 06:06:32 PM »

That's the way I was leaning towards...And something about the end of Revolutions...

I think Neo died, just as the Christ died for everyones' sins...If you look at it from a religious point-of-view the ending isn't so open afterall

Grey Ninja · « **Reply #60 on:** November 06, 2003, 06:08:32 PM »

Bill, I don't think that's what the film makers were going for. At least I HOPE not.

EDIT: Mouse Clicker, I really want you to listen to "The Miracle" on the Xenosaga OST, and tell me what you think. And if you have played Xenogears or Xenosaga, PLEASE PM me your impressions of the game. I would really like to know.

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #61 on:** November 06, 2003, 06:11:48 PM »

Again, I think they left that for interpretation so that both religious and non-religious viewers could shape the ending in the way they wanted it...Since I'm a religious person, I took the ending from the religious point-of-view.

nolimit19 · « **Reply #62 on:** November 06, 2003, 06:14:13 PM »

well its obvious that the relgious parralels are there, so i wouldnt be suprised if that was their motive.

Grey Ninja · « **Reply #63 on:** November 06, 2003, 06:15:29 PM »

No Bill. We both agree that Neo died. Our reasoning is just different. You seem to think that the humans were dirty sinners, and needed redemption, and needed "saving". Myself and Mouse seem to think that Neo died as a result of a scientific reason. Whatever the reason, Neo is still dead. Can we please leave it at that instead of having the standard religious debate following that?

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #64 on:** November 06, 2003, 06:17:34 PM »

Good point- from what I can glean from The Second Renaissance, I don't think humans were advanced enough to have figured out nuclear fusion by then. Then again, one might think the machines could have.

Also, why are you asking me about Xenogears/Xenosaga- I don't own either, although I'd like to change that as soon as I get a little money. Is it because of its religious message? Speaking of RPG's with religious messages, Grandia II had a great one- just had to get that off my chest.

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #65 on:** November 06, 2003, 06:17:53 PM »

I wasn't arguing that whether Neo died was open to interpretation or not...I was stating that HOW and WHY Neo died was open to interpretation...Again I'll say, movie watchers with high religious values will take Neo's death symbolically while those who don't will not...

Grey Ninja · « **Reply #66 on:** November 06, 2003, 06:26:21 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
Also, why are you asking me about Xenogears/Xenosaga- I don't own either, although I'd like to change that as soon as I get a little money. Is it because of its religious message? Speaking of RPG's with religious messages, Grandia II had a great one- just had to get that off my chest.

Xenogears had a VERY distinct religious interpretation. "The Miracle" on the Xenosaga OST is one of the finest pieces of music I know of, and obviously I am listening to it right now. I am seriously going to miss Yasunori Mitsuda in the next episode of Xenosaga, as his music is REALLY good, but I suppose it can't be helped.

But I would really recommend playing Xenogears ASAP. (I am almost done Xenosaga Episode I, and Xenogears is undeniably the better game. If you REALLY want to play it, PM me with your MSN name.)

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #67 on:** November 06, 2003, 06:41:49 PM »

No MSN for me, sorry- all my friends use AIM, and I'm too lazy to get Trillian or anything. I'll definitely check those two games out, though- there's a discount game shop in town I think will have either if not both for very cheap.

Grey Ninja · « **Reply #68 on:** November 06, 2003, 06:49:46 PM »

Canadians seem to use MSN and Americans seem to use AIM. That just strikes me as wrong on both counts.

Nevertheless, I am on AIM right now (via Trillian, as I hate AIM more than MSN surprisingly enough). ANSWER ME!

Swordsplay · « **Reply #69 on:** November 06, 2003, 07:23:59 PM »

***WARNING!***Will contain a spoler to the Revolutions (third installment of matrix)*****

In a way, neo didnt die, he was the sixth remade program of "the one". The matrix means (i think in latin) "the womb."

The first movie, was supposed to resemble birth (where neo first finds out he has powers)
the second movie, to resemble life (where he kicks a lot of 8ss and uses a lot of his powers)
the third movie, to resemble death and rebirth (where he starts to slack, and after he dies, he is supposedly going to be remade in the future, when the architect takes over again, in which case the next Neo will be the seventh installment of the neo program. In other words, the matrix is never ending and it keeps repeating itself.

Ocarina Blue · « **Reply #70 on:** November 06, 2003, 08:18:00 PM »

Your right, Swordplay, and Matrix also means lots other things aswell. Like something that will recreate itself, something that flesh and bone are incased in, a mold, and also its the name for a method of sending more than one electronic signal at once. I haven't seen the last two movies, but from what I've read, the name seems to suit the series pretty well

ThePerm · « **Reply #71 on:** November 07, 2003, 08:32:15 AM »

what you all fail to realise is that the humans are no longer produced by sex but by rather a form of cloning. In this sense neo could appear a few times every few generations
because their going to constantly recreate him and his line of genes in the same environment will have similar results...not necassarilly the same results...but for every choice he makes there is another set of choices...it is possible that the computers(oracle) calculated every choice he could possibly make based on the environment presented(to a point..outside the matrix such a control is harder....as it is random on how the non clones will reproduce and how their children will affect neo) and how the first and second neo's made choices similarly...also there were probably other trinities and morpheus'. Also the program Smith threw things off heavily for the sixth neo. Aw reminds me of Zelda.....

thesos21 · « **Reply #72 on:** November 07, 2003, 10:57:19 AM »

SPOILERS!!! SPOILERS!!! SPOILERS!!!

Did anyone feel there was a purpose for Neo to be blinded?

Oldskool · « **Reply #73 on:** November 07, 2003, 11:11:18 AM »

I came out of the cinema after seeing Revolutions about an hour and a half ago. I thought it was exellent, not as good as the first but better than the second.

UBER SPOLIERS FROM HECK BELOW:

I was actually suprised by some of the parts of the movie, like Neo being blinded but getting the "second sight", and the fact that both Trinity and Neo snuffed it. (I am damn sure Neo died)

Pay close attention to the scene near the end where the little girl created that lovely sunrise, saying she did it for Neo. Neo means new, and a sunrise indicates a new day... hmm....

Oldskool · « **Reply #74 on:** November 07, 2003, 11:28:32 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Swordsplay
***WARNING!***Will contain a spoler to the Revolutions (third installment of matrix)*****

In a way, neo didnt die, he was the sixth remade program of "the one". The matrix means (i think in latin) "the womb."

The first movie, was supposed to resemble birth (where neo first finds out he has powers)
the second movie, to resemble life (where he kicks a lot of 8ss and uses a lot of his powers)
the third movie, to resemble death and rebirth (where he starts to slack, and after he dies, he is supposedly going to be remade in the future, when the architect takes over again, in which case the next Neo will be the seventh installment of the neo program. In other words, the matrix is never ending and it keeps repeating itself.

I disagree that there will be another Neo. The 5 Neos beforehand had chosen to let the machines destroy Zion, and then choose to rebuild it with 11 men and 9 women (the KFC man... I mean the architect gave a number close to that) and all that stuff. The 6th Neo chose the other path, and (!!!Spoilers!!!) the war ended with peace on both sides.

Some extra spoilers: Also, the architect tells the oracle that he would free all the humans from the matrix. It would be more likely that the Machine's empire-like thingy falls apart to lack of power, as they would probably not be able to reclone humans fast enough before they run out of juice.

One more thing... I was wondering what "the machines" were doing with Neo's body in the end. They put it on a moving platform, but thats all we see... anyone got any clues as to what they were doing?

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Author Topic: The Matrix Revolutions (Read 18879 times)