Topic: Loony Tunes gets no respect!

[mouse_clicker]

Today at school I had no less than 6 people not only tell me the Simpsons is better than Loony Tunes, but that it wasn't funny at all. What the hell? All my waking life I have regarded Loony Tunes/Merry Melodies as the greatest collection of animated film ever created. It's not simple nostalgia that draws people back to them. These cartoons were marvels of American film, and influenced not just today's animation but modern moviemaking as well. I've been told there was nothing funny about them- really, though, what WASN'T funny? The animation, the dialog, the music, the soundeffects, the illustrations, the voices- I can't find one fault among the whole lot of them. It's not just that I'm sad that these cartoons aren't enjoyed as much now as then, but that they aren't given the respect they deserve- the fact of the matter is, today's television and movies would be entirely different were it not for pioneering short films like Loony Tunes, Disney, Tom and Jerry, and Popeye. I thought I had more support on this! I'm a man who enjoys his cartoons, and I've seen more than enough of the broad range of comedic animation to know that, plain and simple, nothing can compare to Loony Tunes- not the Simpsons, not Futurama, not Adult Swim, not South Park, not even Dexter's Lab. I won't say I don't enjoy these shows, because I do, but it's like comparing an average stone to a finely cut diamond. Why can't people recognize the genius of these cartoons? WHY I ask you, WHY? o_O  

[manunited4eva22]

Now I say boy you just plain dumb /end Foghorn reference.

[Bill Aurion]

I still watch the Roadrunner cartoons to this day, they are they great...

[KnowsNothing]

I still laugh at loony tunes!  It's one of my favorite shows!  So many episodes, new and funny each tyme, Mel Blanc did ALL the voices!  HOORAY!

Seriously, I love Loony Tunes.

[Berny]

I agree. Simpsons and Looney Toons cannot be compared. They are from completely different generations. I can't wait for the Looney Toons movie. Looks HOT!

The only reason I dont TOTALLY agree with you, mouseclicker, is your addition of Disney's old cartoons. Who knows, maybe now you'll eliminate my bias against them, but the reason I have no respect for Disney is because of the alleged "subliminal messages" in their old movies. There were *allgedly* wangs and hidden hand drawn pr0n all over their old movies. I've heard this a number of times from sources that are independent of each other. If anyone has any evidence of this or condradicting it, I'd love to see it.

[mouse_clicker]

Not all of them, KnowsNothing- the notable exception is Arthur Q. Bryan, who did the voice of Elmer Fudd.

Berny: I've heard that a lot, but they were still hilarious cartoons in my opinion, and enormously influential.

Speaking of the Simpsons and Loony Tunes, I read a great interview with Chuck Jones at The Onion AV Club on the very subject:

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O: What do you think of some of the other cartoons being produced today?

CJ: Well, I have a lot of respect for The Simpsons, but it's in the same tradition as Rocky & Bullwinkle: They're very clever scripts, and they had no intention of animating them. Animating goes back to that basic term that Noah Webster wrote in his dictionary—"Animation: to invoke life." Last night, when I was signing some cels, this deaf girl came up. She could read my lips, and she said that the thing she likes about the Warner cartoons and the Disney cartoons is that she could tell what was happening without hearing the dialogue. And that's what we tried to do: We always ran the pictures without dialogue, so we could see whether the action of the body would somehow convey what we were talking about. And she said that she'd watch Rocky & Bullwinkle or The Simpsons, and she couldn't tell what was happening, because so much of it is vocal. It's what I call "illustrated radio." The thing has to tell the whole story in words before you put drawings in front of it. But the basic tool, as I say... A great artist once said—in describing lines, which is really what we work with—that respect for the line is the most important thing. He described the line: "My little dot goes for a walk." You must have an equal amount of respect for any point on the line. You don't zip from one place to another like you're likely to do when you're young. When you watch your little dot go for a walk, it has to be carefully done, and thoughtfully done, and respectfully done.

[Berny]

He's right about the dialogue. I mean Road Runner cartoons doesn't even HAVE any. I still like Bugs and Daffy's wisecracks at each other though. Oh and Bugs and Yosemite. Gotta love 'em. Did you see the one where Yosemite was a confederate a hundred years after the war (like some people in this grand state of Missouri, I am ashamed to say) Classic. Simply, undeniably classic.

[mouse_clicker]

Friz Freleng, who not only created Yosmite Sam but made most of his cartoons, said he was always amazed how incredibly basic they were, how they could pare down the entire Revolutionary War to just Yosmite Sam and Bugs Bunny fighting eachother. He also said he liked Yosimite Sam much more than Elmer Fudd because he saw Elmer as basically being a child in a human body, and having Bugs pick on him just seemed wrong. Yosimite Sam was a much more capable villain for Bugs to outwit, and he thought he was also much more versatile. I don't know I agree with Mr. Freleng, but I love both sets of cartoons.

[manunited4eva22]

Disney cartoons have more than a little nudity, they have A LOT.  I had an assignment in Media Arts to pick out nudity in Phantasia.  I finished the assignment in the first 15 minutes of the movie.  It really is there, and it occurs quite often.  Well the same is true of a lot of tv shows, movies, commercials, etc.  

[Berny]

Oh. I guess that explains Elmer's cry. It sounds so childishly annoying!!! And his r–w mix up. That's considered childish. I don't know that it was totally wrong for Bugs to pick on him. He did twy to kill the wabbit....

[Ian Sane]

In my opinion Simpsons seasons 3 to 6 is funnier then any cartoon show ever.  However anything from season 8 onwards is just unwatchable trite and in my opinion those seasons (which annoyingly most of today's fans are more familiar with) put a big black eye on the show as a whole.

Looney Toons on the otherhand has consistently been funny for decades, Space Jam aside.  People still find those classic cartoons funny and everyone is at least somewhat familiar with all the characters and storylines.  Fifty years from now I don't see The Simpsons being remembered quite as fondly.  The Simpsons is the type of show that will keep on going until it is so bad that no one watches it and it gets cancelled.  As a result it will die out on a sour note and thus taint people's rememberance of it.

But we really are comparing apple and oranges here.  Looney Toons' hey day was as a cartoon short shown before movies.  The Simpsons is a prime time television show and is in a whole different ball park since it has focus on ratings and advertising.

Oh and I find that Bugs Bunny at the best of times was a glorified bully and I've always wondered why I think he's so funny when he is basically a total jerk.

[Berny]

Does it at all reflect on my personal character that my favorite Looney Tunes' character is "a glorified bull" and "a total jerk"?

EDIT: Favorite still ends in "e" right?

[mouse_clicker]

That's another point many Loony Tunes directors were quick to point out- Bugs was never a jerk on his own terms, he was always provoked into these situations. It's more a retaliation than a preemptive strike. That is, opposed to Tom and Jerry where Jerry was just an a$$hole and picked on Tom because he could.  

[Berny]

Well, SOMETIMES that is true of Jerry. But sometimes, Jerry is just trying to steal food....from the...fridge....OK. He's an ass.

[The Omen]

The Simpsons is funnier, and more cerebral to me.  I never really liked Looney Toons.   I dont think anything is as funny as The Simpsons in its hey day. But it doesnt matter, does it?  Like what you like.
  And to sat LTs get no respect is outlandish.  Everybody watches them when they're kids.  They're extremely popular.  by the way, i just had an argument about the Simpsons vs Family guy, and all my defenses sounded like Mouse-clickers defenses of Loony Toons.  

[Ian Sane]

"Bugs was never a jerk on his own terms, he was always provoked into these situations."

True but you have to look at some of the situations from an adult human perspective.  When someone is being paid to put up a freeway that just happens to go over top of a rabbit hole they don't really deserve to be blown up by dynamite.  Bugs just doesn't handle most conflicts in a mature adult way.

Yeah Jerry is a dickhead but I have a cat and I hate mice in the house so I'm kind of biased.  Now Woody Woodpecker, THAT was an a$$hole.

As for Simpsons vs Family Guy that's a hard arguement.  When Family Guy was on TV I thought it was a MUCH funnier show then the Simpsons was at the time.  Family Guy is better at being an off-the-wall comedy.  The Simpsons however wasn't originally as off-the-wall as it is now and in it's glory days was a much smarter and more sophisticated comedy then Family Guy could ever dream to be.  If you compare the peaks of both shows Simpsons wins by a landslide but I feel that Family Guy is what the Simpsons should have been when they switched to the "Homer's wacky adventures" format.

[mouse_clicker]

Of cours the Simpsons is more cerebral, because it's humor is almost entirely based on the dialog, as Chuck Jones stated. While I like that kind of comedy, it loses its appeal after a while and eventually starts to rip itself off. Loony Tunes' comedy is based on so many different factors it's nearly impossible to list them all, and I think that's the real reason it has lasted so long and shows like the Simpsons won't. Don't get me wrong, I love them Simpsons to death (although, in my opinion, it's very overrated- Futurama, I think, is much funnier), and I have ENORMOUS respect for Matt Groening, but I regard Loony Tunes in an infinitely superior light (much the way I do Lord of the Rings in the literature world). Loony Tunes is enjoyable to so many different people on so many different levels and in so many different situation and time periods, while the Simpsons is funny to a select group of individuals in the here and now. It's not hard to see which had a greater impact.  

Oh god, don't even TRY to tell me the Simpsons is mature humor.

[The Omen]

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although, in my opinion, it's very overrated- Futurama, I think, is much funnier

Not in the golden years of The Simpsons, years 2 - 6.  Of course, copmparing them now, when the simpsons is 14 seasons old is a little unfair.  Check Futurama in 10 years, and see if it stands up then.  Of course, its all a matter of taste, and by no means did i mean that by being cerebral Simpsons is better, just its my kind of humor.

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The Simpsons however wasn't originally as off-the-wall as it is now and in it's glory days was a much smarter and more sophisticated comedy then Family Guy could ever dream to be. If you compare the peaks of both shows Simpsons wins by a landslide but I feel that Family Guy is what the Simpsons should have been when they switched to the "Homer's wacky adventures" format.

Absolutely agree, but lets see how The Family guy ages.

And Mouse-clicker, just for the record, what is mature humor?

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Loony Tunes is enjoyable to so many different people on so many different levels and in so many different situation and time periods, while the Simpsons is funny to a select group of individuals in the here and now. It's not hard to see which had a greater impact.

Well, i dont think this thread is the official last word on what had a greater impact, do you?

[kennyb27]

Story time!

About two years ago, my cousin who was 5 at the time was spending some time at my house.  I had this Bugs Bunny stuffed animal laying around and she saw it and (take a deep breath) asked me who it was.  I was genuinly surprised and proceeded to ask her if she had ever heard of Bugs Bunny or Daffy Duck.  She said she hadn't and then said she watched Dexter's Lab and shows of the like.  

It's things like these that generally scare me about the future of cartoons.  Mouse made a very fine point about everything about these cartoons being great:  the illustrations, voices, and probably the best (and maybe even the most easily overlooked part) the music.

[Hostile Creation]

I appreciate Looney Tunes now, and love it, though I didn't really pay attention as a kid.  Invader Zim is arguably just as good, however.

Though I hate Tom and Jerry, and Popeye is not among my favorites either.

[KnowsNothing]

I've always, and still do, love loony toons.  I feel the same way about tom and jerry and popeye as HC.

BUT(and I'm sorry, HC), i don't see invader zim being NEARLY as good as loony toons.  please forgive me.  

[CardBoardBox]

yarr!!! i must agree...even though Zim is a REALLY GOOD SUPERTERRIFIC FABULOSO cartoon..loony toons are better

[mouse_clicker]

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And Mouse-clicker, just for the record, what is mature humor?

You tell me- you're the one saying what ISN'T mature humor, so logically if one can't define what mature humor is, humor not being mature can't be a drawback, can it?

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Well, i dont think this thread is the official last word on what had a greater impact, do you?

Excuse me, but that's not even open for debate- Loony Tunes, along with Disney's cartoons, Popeye, and Tom and Jerry had a GIGANTIC impact on the movie and television industry- you quite simmply cannot deny that. Granted the Simpsons did begin a renaissance of modern television, but you can't possibly compare it's impact to that of Loony Tunes. Ask ANY animation historian and they'll tell you the exact same thing.

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Invader Zim is arguably just as good, however.

Invader Zim, along with Spongebod Squarepants, is VERY overrated- it's pretty decent, but if you think it's as good as Loony Tunes, you've got a lot of cartoon watching to do, man. In my opinion, Nickelodean stopped making good cartoons after they cancelled Angry Beavers (excellent show).  

[KnowsNothing]

Agreed.  Nick has gone wwwaaaaaaaaaaaayy ddddooooowwwwnnn hill.  Angry Beavers = one of my all tyme favorite cartoons.

[Hostile Creation]

Definitely.  Angry Beavers is an incredible show.

But Invader Zim is NOT overrated.  I daresay it's better than what credit it's given.  But that's just me. . . it's the best show on the air nowadays.

Well, before it got CANCEL'D that is.  One thing about Invader Zim I really like is a subtle use of humor. . . well, not necessarily subtle, since it can sometimes be pretty obvious.  But as a creator of humor and somesuch stuff myself, I've become capable of seeing when things take a lot of time or genius to think of.  And Invader Zim is one of those things.

But now I'm thinking of Angry Beavers.  I'm going to go see if I can scrape up some stuff off of Kazaa.