Author Topic: the end of humanity (Read 49358 times)

The Omen · « **Reply #150 on:** October 20, 2003, 06:39:54 PM »

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They're not going to throw in swearing simply because they can.

I disagree. I think they will throw it in when it doesn't need to be. But anyway, the world has been going down the toilet for the last 50 years, so i guess i cant bitch anymore.

I also have to say movies, IMO, are on an upswing. Theres just more crap to tread through to find them. There are many thousands more movies per year released than in the 'golden age' of cinema.

nolimit19 · « **Reply #151 on:** October 21, 2003, 08:21:48 AM »

first of all, i have no idea who thinks lotr are some of the best movies ever...maybe some dumb kids(well the first one is defintely better than the 2nd and i do enjoy them, but to consider them GREAT MOVIES, is not a very good asumption), but the film industry has a list of what they consider the top 100 movies...there are maybe a couple movies on there with a lot of cussing....http://www.afi.com/tv/movies.asp a lot were pre-1985...i think this list was made in 2000 or late 1999...so it is a few years old, but you definitely dont see a lot of recent movies on there....most are from 45-85...and then there is a drop off....you think that it would be a gradual rise because people would get smarter and movies would get better, but that is not the case. the point is most movies(and this is true with tv too) when there is tons of cussing, its usually to make up for a lack of substance...and although some consider scar face a great movie, it generally isnt considered great in itself....it is considered great because of the impact it had on american culture....it was butchered by the critics when it came out. the problem with scar face is that it is simply unrealistic...its so extreme, and for some reason people think that is the average life style of a gangsta......and some of it may be similar to real life, but for the most part.....i dont know anyone in the world that has his accent...HAHAHHAHAA. anyways we are definitely seeing a decline in hte quality of movies....thats why you see a lot of independent films becoming more successful now. its funny that you guys can see this in the gaming industry, but not in any other. most movies and music are made from a mold....thats bad...there is no difference between the movies and music we see, because all anyone cares about is making a quick buck. not to say that there is NO music or NO movies are good, but in general, both industries and all other forms of entertainment make money on shock value rather than the content of their product.

edit.....honestly, i am not trying to be stupid and prove a point, but can anyone name a really good movie they have seen in the past year....NOT an ENTERTAINING movie, but a truley very good movie that was also entertaining...not great, just very good....thank you....i can think of tons of disapointments, but i cant really think of a good recent movie....

The Omen · « **Reply #152 on:** October 21, 2003, 08:45:37 AM »

Nolimit19, you cant get into this movie was great and this movie was horrible,because it's all preferences, and you cant argue a preference. I thought Kill Bill was outstanding. Many people didnt. I thought TLOTR:The two towers was incredible. I love Irreversible. There are a lot more movies released than the era you're talking about, therefore a lot more crap to wade through. Doesn't mean theres less great movies, just more garbage. Percentage wise, maybe there are less, but not in pure numbers.

Same thing with TV, which is why all this crap is going to bring more 'shock' shows than real, well written shows. I think there will be just as many good network shows, but a lot more that are uninspired curse fests, appealing to the lowest common denominator. Can you imagine Jerry Springer(bad enough as is) , now with all the cursing allowed?

manunited4eva22 · « **Reply #153 on:** October 21, 2003, 11:44:05 AM »

It may be illegal to say false things about a person, but to send them a letter saying this is why you are an idiot, and degrade them as much as possible is far from a crime.

There isn't a law (in America anyway) that says 'if you are mean, you get to go sit in time out'.

As for the arguement about how society is going to hell, and how things have become so much worse, I'm sure your grandparents said that about elvis shaking his hips.

Do you take offense to the 'raunchous' moves of Elvis, back in the day? This arguement has been played out may a time. We all know where it is going.

ThePerm · « **Reply #154 on:** October 21, 2003, 12:02:54 PM »

fuzz

Hostile Creation · « **Reply #155 on:** October 21, 2003, 12:37:58 PM »

Kill Bill was an incredible movie. . . before that, the last movie I saw in theaters was. . . Bad Boys 2? Maybe not, but that was also a very fun movie.

And who said movies should be moving or provocative? I want to be a movie director someday, but making touching or "great" movies is not my priority. Well, maybe great. But you can't help but get great with me.

I agree, mostly, with the cussing thing, but I disagree about the movies decreasing in quality. There are just a lot more movies being made, so the good ones are less conspicuous.

nolimit19 · « **Reply #156 on:** October 21, 2003, 06:52:35 PM »

lol well i did forget about pirates of the caribean...thats what i was asking...but movies can be entertaining and not good....they can also be good and not entertaining.. there is a definite difference. movies like spider man was entertaining to many...but in the end....when you look at things like acting and script....pretty much as horrible as they get. i didnt even know that there was an argument that movies were geting worse...bad boys 2...please...miami pd going into cuba.....i dont think i need to say anything else. and scar faces accent is horrible. and the fact that you answered that with "i live 12 miles from mexico makes me laugh" the difference between a cuban accent and a mexican accent is the diffrence between a southern accent and a new yorker accent. i know you were probably kidding, but it was funny. the point....just because you like it does not make it good....it makes it entertaining...movies can be entertaining and not good....i dont know about kill bill, but its gotten good reviews from what i saw, and a lot of people i have talked to like it. the point of all this....when movies/music/video games/tv have these ploys like sex/cussing/violence they make the movie more entertaining, but usually (NOT ALWAYS) they end up being worse. and we have seen that even noted by the people in the film industry they themselves indirectly say that their industry is moving backwards. of course they cant say it directly because then we would realize that we are paying for crap. we see it with people who refuse to buy cds in the music industry, we see in on these message boards when games like whore volleyball for xbox sells a lot of copies and all the nintendo fan boys jump on the bash xbox bandwagon...and i think we will see it more in tv. now dont misquote me here...i didnt say i didnt like lotr...i didnt say they werent entertaining or even good movies...just not great. and thats fine...i think i defintely have a bias because of them somewhat butchering the book....but anyways....i like content in all forms of my entertainment...thats why i like nintendo and thats why i dont see stupid movies like fast and the furious and triple x.....i dont htink you are dumb if you see movies like that, but i think you should realize that they arent good movies....maybe entertaining, but not good.

edit: i obviously realize that its an art form and certain people like certain things, but there are just certain things that make a movie great. just like there are certain things that seperate i guy like leonardo da vinci and my 3rd grade painting of my house.

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #157 on:** October 21, 2003, 06:56:35 PM »

If we're going to go by ranked lists, nolimit, how about we go by a list made by the people, as in IMDB's Top 250. I think you'll find that The Two Towers and Fellowship of the Ring rank 6th and 7th, respectively, on that list, being beat out only by such films as Casablanca, Godfather, and Schindler's List. Still, that was not my point- my POINT was that truly great films do NOT have excessive swearing. It may be funny once in a while to see a comedy that does, but my favorite movies, the ones I count as some of the best movie moments I've ever experienced, generally don't contain excessive swearing (although Mallrats IS one of my favorite movies

).

ThePerm · « **Reply #158 on:** October 21, 2003, 07:23:24 PM »

fuzz

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #159 on:** October 21, 2003, 07:24:51 PM »

*cries because this topic won't die*

The Omen · « **Reply #160 on:** October 21, 2003, 08:20:33 PM »

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As for the arguement about how society is going to hell, and how things have become so much worse, I'm sure your grandparents said that about elvis shaking his hips.

Do you take offense to the 'raunchous' moves of Elvis, back in the day? This arguement has been played out may a time. We all know where it is going.

Its extremely obvious you wont look at facts. Is America better off now or 30 years ago? Not even close.
Elvis shaking his hips and allowing cursing on TV is not even close to be comparable. Elvis did dance provocatively , but allowing a certain dance on TV wont degrade a society. Also, a lot of that was racial, because the old timers didnt like a white man dancing like that.
Allowing something thats known to be harmful in its intent, such as f***, will dull our senses even more than they are already. Whether you think curse words hold merit or not, the truth of the matter is, until people stop using the word in a negative light, it will remain there, and if it remains there, then it shouldn't be on network TV. What does it ad exactly?
And yes, we all do know where its going-downhill.

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #161 on:** October 22, 2003, 03:34:02 AM »

How can a word degrade society? Elvis shaking his hips had the same implications as the word f***, I don't see ANY difference, other than the fact that one is socially acceptable and the other isn't. How do you justify that? If you had lived back in the 50's you probably would have believed society was going to hell in a handbasket and it was all Elvis's fault, too. As for your "facts" , there's none to speak of, so of course many of us aren't "looking" at them.

The Omen · « **Reply #162 on:** October 22, 2003, 06:56:13 AM »

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How can a word degrade society? Elvis shaking his hips had the same implications as the word f***, I don't see ANY difference, other than the fact that one is socially acceptable and the other isn't.

Because the word is often used in a degrading manner. A dance wasn't used in that manner, that was a bunch of old white people getting upset that a white man was dancing like a black man and getting their daughters in a huff. Thats the difference. It is my opinion, of course. But i know myself, and i'm not easily insulted, so dancing would have no effect whatsoever. Again, i have no problems cursing, or being cursed at, i just don't see the relevence of having it added to network TV when children are watching it. Pay channels, such as HBO are fine. Not on FOX and UPN, who'll no doubt be the first to take advantage.
We're getting to philosophical on this subject. To me it breaks down to why add curses in, what does it accomplish? I just don't see F*** being needed. I havent heard anymore about this, are there guidelines to when and how to use the word?

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As for your "facts" , there's none to speak of, so of course many of us aren't "looking" at them.

The only fact i'm speaking of is America is worse now than 30 years ago. Maybe you need to start "looking" if you dont see that.

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #163 on:** October 22, 2003, 11:37:57 AM »

How old were you thirty years ago, Omen? Can you even remember back that far? Regardless of whether you do or not, opinions on our country's state 30 years ago is subjective- it's not a "fact" at all. Personally I think the world was worse- America was entrenched in Vietnam, the Cold War and fear of nuclear destruction was rampant, it was a time of politcal upheavel, at home as well as abroad, drug abuse was plentiful- I personally fail to see how the absence of the word f*** made those times any better.

I agree that cursing is not necessary- on the contrary, it's most often unnecessary. I think if you will read most of my posts you will find that out about myself. HOWEVER, I'm never one to restrict the use of a word- that's censorship, and petty censorship at that. It's not even justified- there's FAR more degrading things on network television than the word f***- why haven't you gone up in arms about them?

The Omen · « **Reply #164 on:** October 22, 2003, 12:06:09 PM »

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It's not even justified- there's FAR more degrading things on network television than the word f***- why haven't you gone up in arms about them?

Make a thread about them, and i will

Frankly, i could go on all day about a number of issues, but this is the one that was brought up.

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How old were you thirty years ago, Omen? Can you even remember back that far? Regardless of whether you do or not, opinions on our country's state 30 years ago is subjective- it's not a "fact" at all.

Do we really need to 'be there' to know ? I guess history is useless as well because all of us werent around? The Louisiana purchase is a sham?

There are a lot of things that are better, but overall there is statistical proof that we have degraded as a nation-alarmingly so. Violent crimes involving children have been on a ferocious upswing for the last 30 years, for sure. How many kids were toting guns into schools 1975? Go look it up, you'll be surprised. Single parent families are now almost 5 times more likely, divorce is over 50%. Violent crimes overall are incredibly more frequent. We have militias all over the place, stockpiling weapons. Healthcare is virtually non-existant. We cant have a team win a championship, a decidedly joyous occasion, in a major city, because it'll start riots. Theres plenty more to go, and i suggest you tell me what has drastically improved, and were not talking technology, or anything like that. People issues. Do i think its because of curses? No, but i think this is part of an overall bigger problem that gets worse with every generation of kids, The kids in the generation before me were not as bad as i was. The kids after my generation are worse, and every generation raised with less and less boundaries, gets worse and worse. So do we just say, ahh, the hell with it , everything has to change, and let everything continue to slope downwards?

Hostile Creation · « **Reply #165 on:** October 22, 2003, 12:06:48 PM »

Actually, whenever Elvis appeared on TV, I believe they particularly edited out his hips. . .

I found that funny

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #166 on:** October 22, 2003, 12:45:21 PM »

I'm not saying history is a conspiracy, but I can't consider your opinion on a period in time valid unless you experienced it personally. History waters things down, it filters out what may seem unnecessary but makes up the overall atmosphere of the time period. I can't truly discover what living in the Great Depression was like unless I lived through it, which I most definitely have not. We just learn from textbooks that it was "bad". You can't form an accurate and balanced opinion on a historical era from going to high school- what does learning about the Declaration of Independance tell us about how colonial life really was? Unless you LIVED in 1970, Omen, or at least remember it, I can't carry on a discussion about how life was like then. I can make my assumption and you can make your assumption, but I most definitely consider it a necessity to have actually LIVED during that time to have an opinion that really means anything. You can't say we're worse off now because this set of numbers is lower or higher than that set of numbers- I'm surprised you haven't figured that out for yourself yet. And on top of THAT, history books, especially in America, leave a good deal out. More Native Americans were killed in America than Jews during World War II, yet you'll find no mention of these in the general American curriculum. Plain and simple, reserve judgement on a period of time unless you were there to judge it.

ThePerm · « **Reply #167 on:** October 22, 2003, 01:59:59 PM »

i think readign through this thread you will really understand all of my posts...and many of you have misquoted me.....all i can say is FUZZ!! I have a fuzzy kitty....and she's soooo cute!

Ms.Pikmin · « **Reply #168 on:** October 22, 2003, 02:12:16 PM »

I was there 30 years ago. Even though I was only 3 my memory is still clear and sharp as a tack.

Life was good and language was clean. Everyone was happy. No one had the slightest idea that disco would soon come.

The Omen · « **Reply #169 on:** October 22, 2003, 04:40:50 PM »

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And on top of THAT, history books, especially in America, leave a good deal out. More Native Americans were killed in America than Jews during World War II, yet you'll find no mention of these in the general American curriculum.

I know all about the school history books , and thankfully i'm old enough to completely wash out everything i learned ,but there are REAL history books available at any book store.

I dont base my life on statistics, and i have said from the beginning this is my opinion, but crime , definately violent crime, is dramatically up. That is documented fact. I'm not making it up. About the native americans, can i believe you if you werent there? I can because its documented, and i expect the same from you. We can say we each make points, and agree to disagree. I really cant keep arguing, because are either of us going to change our minds? So nice debating with you. I lay my sword down.

I'm just curious where you live, i'm pretty sure its the U.S., but i forget.

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #170 on:** October 22, 2003, 05:34:08 PM »

I've lived in South Dakota, California, Okinawa, and now currently reside in Kansas. I see what you mean that the restrictions put on TV and movies represented a time of innocence and family values, and I do see your point that family values have dropped in recent times, but I most definitely do not blame that drop on the breaking of censorship barriers, and I also don't see the existence of family values in the past relying on the fact that those censorship barriers did exact. You're attacking symbols, not reasons.

Termin8Anakin · « **Reply #171 on:** October 22, 2003, 06:25:45 PM »

I think Forrest Gump was funny, cause that's where Elvis 'got' his hip dance. Hahahaha.

nolimit19 · « **Reply #172 on:** October 22, 2003, 07:47:19 PM »

i just wanted to say that you cant go by the "peoples" list when talking about movies for the same reason you cant trust the "people" on what game is hte best game of all time...most "people" dont know what makes a good movie...and that is obviously shown when anyone would say that the lotr movies are better then ben-hur....dont get me wrong, i think that the lotr STORY is one of the best told by human kind, but its movie adaption didnt live up to the impossible standards. again i dont htink they are bad movies....i may even say they are agood...and they are, but the fact that they got 6th and 7th on that list just shows how dumb the people who made that list are when it comes to movies...the only people you can trust are the ones in the industry, and they tell a slightly different story....another good example of a movie i liked, but really was not a good movie is the matrix...i loved that movie.....but lets all admit that the acting and script really were less than par at times.....to be nice....very entertaining, and a great story, but really not a movie that is known for its great acting. and i think its safe to say that you need great acting to have a great movie.....the thing is that its hard to seperate great from greatly entertaining......the matrix is in the same topic as scar face, great in a sense, but not really great when it comes to the fundamentals of movie making.....both had a substantial impact on american society, and both are extremely entertaining...... and also mouse made the point that truely great movies dont have cussing or somehting....which is what my point was....and he seems to have stolen it....my point was that cussing really adds nothing and that we have seen more flash,sex appeal, and cussing used to try and sell a product. when in reality these things not only add nothing to the movie 95 percent of the time, but they actually take away from the movie...and i dont know who thinks the world is better now then it was 30 years ago, but no educated person truely believes that. people on the left and right think its worse. ok maybe thats not entirely true, but its an EXTREMELY popular belief today....i would venture that more then half the worlds population would believe so....probably more. depending on the statistics you look at, crime is up....and to be honest, i dont know how crime could not be up.....i am 20 and i dont know much more then what happened from 90 or so until the present, but i have talked to my parents, and even more liberal people....and they said that you could go trick or treating and not worry about getting poisened...and you could hitch hike from coast to coast with out a worry....i have mentioned this all before....sexual related crimes of all types are up no matter what numbers you look at...the only thing i see getting better is race relations, and gender relations....all the negative stuff can largely be blamed on the media and the lack of parenting excersized by the baby boomers. i dont know if you guys saw the tapes of those columbine kids, but its disturbing that parents could be so stupid....and i think they should consider putting those parents to death....absolutely rediculous....well maybe not put them to death....but they should put them in the town square and let people slap them in the face for the rest of their lives.

ThePerm · « **Reply #173 on:** October 22, 2003, 07:52:41 PM »

no limit your definistion of good seems to mean "well made" and entertaining is well entertaining.

So if i said sfa was good but not entertaining in your meaning of the word i would be correct right?

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #174 on:** October 22, 2003, 08:10:54 PM »

nolimit: I'd trust the people the movies were made for above the art critic-like snobs who don't want to like anything the "common folk" do.

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Author Topic: the end of humanity (Read 49358 times)