Topic: M$ and Nintendo?

[KatDaddy]

The idea of Microsoft and Nintendo joining (on the console front only) to compete against Sony is a very real possibility.  

The thought behind it is similar to the joining of forces between Suzuki and Kawasaki Motorcycles.  Three years ago, if you stated that they would join forces, you would be laughed out of the building.  Now, look what has happened.  Neither company standing alone could compete with Honda, and both were floundering in their efforts to gain any significant ground.

A little over a year ago, they joined forces on the Dirtbike/motocross/ATV lines only, and now are gaining significant ground on Honda's line.  Joining R&D efforts, offering common lines of product with minor tweaks between them to capture any viable customer, as well as increased marketing and better products has really aided the conglomerate's (so to speak) ability to push forward and capture much more market share in that particular motorcycle niche.

And this talk of M$ is "teh greedy M$$ suxxorzz!!111!" is crap.  Basically, all issues would be worked out in the contract negotiations.  I can see two differing consoles with each having their own "bells and whistles", but having compatibility between them.  Revenue sharing, licensing, etc. would be worked out prior.

Not only that, think about the way the gaming market is going now.  Personally, I have both consoles, but for a while, I just had the Xbox.  I also have a 6-year old daughter.  Now, when I only had one console, the kids' choice for games was crap.  Now, had I had a console that could offer me games such as Mario, Pikmin, etc, as well as play Halo, Knights of the Old Republic, etc.... the console choice for the older gamer (in my mind) would be a "no-brainer".  Nintendo definitely has a larger software choice for the younger gamer, and is why I finally bought a Cube (also because I wanted ED and Z:WW ).

Anyway, if they joined, that would probably be the only common thread between MS and Nintendo.  N would continue to agressively market the Gameboy lineup, and reap the profits it is already recognizing from that product line.

And as far as Nintendo ever joining Sony, forget about it.

[BadBreathBear]

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Originally posted by: DrGAKMAN
Uhhhhh...

I think their individual console sales would be moot at this point since they BOTH play the same games.  Exclussives are moot too since they're really not trying to outsell each other, but instead, Sony...or at least compete.

Giving gamers a choice between a cheaper Nintendo made games-only machine and an all-in-one Microsoft system that both play the same games is not only good, but diversifying people's tastes without really competing with one another.  I've forgotten that this isn't gaming-age.com where I've been talking about my Nintendo going more portable theory for a while now.  I believe that Nintendo will aim to make their next system discman sized and make it to where the next GameBoy can display GAMECUBE quality visuals so you can hook them up together and ultimatly play next generation games on the go.  This would be more than the perfect answer to PSP *and* cosolidate Nintendo's GameBoy dominance with their ailing console line to create a uber-portable/console market all their own.  Microsoft's machine will not just play games, but I imagine will have alot of features the PSX3 has.  The big thing is now, if they team up now they can have each others games as an extra selling point to their systems over Sony's.  While Microsoft would probably do better in America with their bigger badder system, Nintendo would most likely do better in Japan since it's name/system design will do alot better there for that market...but either way it doesn't matter 'cos the *real* money is in the software and I garauntee if they were to team up they would sell more software.  It would really benifit developers 'cos, by making just one game for them, they reach two completly diverse markets.  It would benifit gamers 'cos instead of having to buy two systems to enjoy Microsoft & Nintendo's software libraries they'll only have to buy one.

This talk of a Sony team up is what's *really* rediculous.  Sony has already drawn the battle lines with PSP...they're not gonna back down...they want to force Nintendo out of the market or force them to go 3RD party...not to team up with them.  Sony are control freaks, they would want Nintendo to drop the GAMECUBE & GameBoy line before joining them thus making them dependant on Sony.  Microsoft may have wanted that before this generation, but they know that Nintendo won't give up their portable or console lines and be b!tched into making games for someone elses system.  Besides, Microsoft doesn't want Nintendo to ditch the strong GameBoy line  for some silly "X-BOY" either...I'm sure they're more willing to come to terms than Sony is...why...'cos Sony is dominant and therefore arogant where as Microsoft is in the same boat as Nintendo...under Sony's boot.

I'm sorry but that is among the more idiotic things I've ever heard. Your entire plan is under the basis that Sony HAS to be beat, but if that were the case, why didn't Nintendo include a DVD player in it's system? Nintendo doesn't have to beat ANYONE. Nintendo has to make MONEY. Is Nintendo making money? Yes, Nintendo is making money.  Is Microsoft making money? Hell no! Remember the last time Nintendo tried teaming up, it resulted in the Playstation debacle.

Why would Nintendo want to make another company that it would have to compete against later on? Why would Nintendo want to team with a company that has nothing but lost money in this generation of videogame sales? Why would Nintendo want lose the respect of it's fellow country men? Just to beat Sony? Are you out of your mind? Beating Sony means nothing to Nintendo. Would more market share be nice? Definitely. Would it give up it's way of life to do it? Never.

To quote Perrin Kaplan :

"People say, 'Why don't you do what Microsoft does?' Well, that's never been Nintendo, and it will never be Nintendo."
 

[Celebi]

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The thought behind it is similar to the joining of forces between Suzuki and Kawasaki Motorcycles. Three years ago, if you stated that they would join forces, you would be laughed out of the building. Now, look what has happened. Neither company standing alone could compete with Honda, and both were floundering in their efforts to gain any significant ground.

Well you see they are both Japanese companies whereas Microsoft is American while Nintendo has always been traditionally a Japanese company at heart that grew from a small entertainment company doing card business into what people know today.Rare may have got sold but Nintendo is always considered a valueble asset for tha Japanese when it comes to console gaming business.Imagine all those efforts put into building up Nintendo throughout those many years being just taken away from a foreign company just for money?

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And this talk of M$ is "teh greedy M$$ suxxorzz!!111!" is crap. Basically, all issues would be worked out in the contract negotiations. I can see two differing consoles with each having their own "bells and whistles", but having compatibility between them. Revenue sharing, licensing, etc. would be worked out prior.

Look what happened to Nvidia today?Rare just got swallowed by MS..Sega almost got tricked too.So what can Microsoft contribute if they were to teamed up with Nintendo?Cash?Installed base?Technology?Sony can do that too as well as a matter of fact even better in some of these areas.
But think of it that way if Nintendo was to sell out to an American bully by teaming up with MS just for $$ sake, wonder what will happen with the current software community such as SquareEnix,Konami,Capcom,Atlus,SNK react?The fact that why the FF series,DragonQuest did not make it on the Xbox could answer that.

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also have a 6-year old daughter. Now, when I only had one console, the kids' choice for games was crap. Now, had I had a console that could offer me games such as Mario, Pikmin, etc, as well as play Halo, Knights of the Old Republic, etc.... the console choice for the older gamer (in my mind) would be a "no-brainer".

Well I think you don't quite understand what most Asian console gamers want.You may want adult oriented real FPS,real action gaming and may think adventure games like MArio,Zelda,Pikmin,Pokemon,Digimon,Akira Toriyama's works i.eragonball,Hayoki Miyazaki's anime suck but do you know that many Asian youngsters are crazy about them?Thats where the money are and if you think that Nintendo should cater to adults like you,you're wrong because the real market consoles are targeted today is not your group type.They are still aimed at kids.The type of games you'll probably like which are adult/mature type oriented can be found on pcs.So why do you want Nintendo to support MS?Wouldn't the Xbox which is basically designed more towards the PC architecture be more appropriate for you?In this context as well so can Sony cater for the older group as well.They have EA games at their side.

[DrGAKMAN]

Wait wait wait...

I can't believe any of you would think that Nintendo & Sony would ever work together.  Sony doesn't want to and Nintendo doesn't want to...blam...simple as that.  The Microsoft situation is different 'cos you KNOW that Microsoft DOES want to get with Nintendo...right now it's just a question of if Nintendo will even consider it.  If Nintendo's big brass considered a Microsoft buyout before this generation even started then surely they might be interested in a partnership next generation.  #1 they're doing even worse userbase/mindshare wise than they were coming off the N64.  #2 Mr. Yamauchi (the main one who was against Microsoft buying them out pre-GAMECUBE) is no longer in charge at Nintendo.  #3 Microsoft surely knows that Nintendo won't be bowled over by selling out and even if they were it'd be too costly to Microsoft to straight  out buy them.  So...Microsoft is probably aiming for more agreeable terms to Nintendo 'cos they have to.

As far as the comment about Nintendo making money...yes...we all know that Nintendo is STILL very profitable despite their low console userbase...BUT...most of those profits come from milking the GameBoy brand...a brand which will soon be threatened by the PSP.  So if Nintendo continues the way they are they will continue to lose console mindshare & userbase (which cuts into profits) and have to worry about losing their cashcow in the GameBoy line.  So no, Nintendo isn't always going to be profitable if they continue to lose userbase which now (thanks to casual gamers being the driving force in the market) is shaped by mindshare.

Then someone coupled the above point about how profitable Nintendo is and how profitable Microsoft isn't.  Yes that's a good point if we're talking about a merger or a buyout...but not a PARTNERSHIP.  Microsoft can continue to do business the way they want to and Nintendo likewise...only now they get to share each others games to garner more support from retailers, gamers, developers & publishers alike!

I used to be very anti-MS, still have a part of me that is...but I can't deny their strengths in the games market.  And while alot of the anti-MS sentiment will gladly point out how much Microsoft is "throwing away" on the X-BOX, they ignore the fact that that's the way Microsoft planned to do it anyways.  They knew that in order to garner support away from the industry leader (Sony) and the industry veteran (Nintendo) they would have to spend spend spend.  That doesn't forever mean they are gonna lose and never gain.  In fact I would wager to say that's one of the reasons they would want to partner with Nintendo...why...'cos despite their dwindling market presense and despite competing against two behemoth companies Nintendo remains profitable.  I mean look, they went to ATi just as Nintendo did so therefore you know they're looking to get more bang for their buck just like Nintendo did with GAMECUBE (which despite it's power being closely on par with the X-BOX, cost them a fraction of what was spent on the X-BOX).  To me, that's a big indicator that Microsoft wants to learn from Nintendo so that instead of "wasting" money on their game projects they can instead MAKE money like Nintendo does.

The comment about "if Nintendo wanted to win, they'd add DVD" bla bla bla is so lame.  There is no ONE way for any company to "win".  And who said anything really about winning?  I just said with a partnership with Microsoft they'd do better to actually be able to truly compete against Sony.  The best thing about this is that instead of having two competitors being seperate they would only have ONE being together...and those odds are alot better than what they've got now.

You guys need to get out of the mentality that Microsoft would somehow OWN Nintendo by partnering with them.  What I am thinking of (and surely they are thinking of if they're considering getting together) would be less risky, less expensive and be more benificial all the while not compromising one anothers plans/philosophies.  The idea is simply that they're format would be universal between the two systems so that each others games sell to each others markets increasing their mindshare, their userbase and their overall pressense in the industry.

Imagine, as a Nintendo fan, walking into a GameStop and Nintendo (with of course Microsoft) FINALLY getting the shelfspace and placement they desserve.  Imagine reading a mainstream news article about video games where, instead of them dogging, forgetting or downright ignoring Nintendo, they actually talk about them and give them their proper respect.  Imagine being able to read a game magazine where someone is actually happy to reveiw a Nintendo game and not pissing on it 'cos it was a "sloppy port" or "not on the right system" bla bla bla.  Imagine actually having 3RD parties making games for YOU instead of sighing 'cos the game is on everything else but Nintendo's system.  Imagine a GameStop clerk actually telling you that the newest M Rated game IS in for your Nintendo system and IS available instead of him snooding out: "teH GAMEPUBE is R teH kiddie and therefore we don't carry that game 'cos they don't sell for it!"  Imagine Nintendo's delight when the damned shareholders are off their NUTS and they can stop worrying about them and how their marketshare is dwindling and instead worry about making games better all the while watching their games soar up top selling charts 'cos now (thanks to Microsoft's audience buying their games too) their games are selling way better.  Imagine a game conversation where people actually take Nintendo seriously.  Imagine asking someone to play a Nintendo game and/or on a Nintendo system with them and them not staring at you and saying: "don't you have an X-BOXda or a PlayStation yo!"

[BadBreathBear]

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Originally posted by: DrGAKMAN
Wait wait wait...

I can't believe any of you would think that Nintendo & Sony would ever work together.  Sony doesn't want to and Nintendo doesn't want to...blam...simple as that.  The Microsoft situation is different 'cos you KNOW that Microsoft DOES want to get with Nintendo...right now it's just a question of if Nintendo will even consider it.  If Nintendo's big brass considered a Microsoft buyout before this generation even started then surely they might be interested in a partnership next generation.  #1 they're doing even worse userbase/mindshare wise than they were coming off the N64.  #2 Mr. Yamauchi (the main one who was against Microsoft buying them out pre-GAMECUBE) is no longer in charge at Nintendo.  #3 Microsoft surely knows that Nintendo won't be bowled over by selling out and even if they were it'd be too costly to Microsoft to straight  out buy them.  So...Microsoft is probably aiming for more agreeable terms to Nintendo 'cos they have to.

That's a biased opinion right at the start. Why would they team up with a loser instead of a winner. And even then, why would Nintendo spend 300 million dollars to prevent a hostile takeover. They see Microsoft as a threat. As nothing more than a snake.

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As far as the comment about Nintendo making money...yes...we all know that Nintendo is STILL very profitable despite their low console userbase...BUT...most of those profits come from milking the GameBoy brand...a brand which will soon be threatened by the PSP.  So if Nintendo continues the way they are they will continue to lose console mindshare & userbase (which cuts into profits) and have to worry about losing their cashcow in the GameBoy line.  So no, Nintendo isn't always going to be profitable if they continue to lose userbase which now (thanks to casual gamers being the driving force in the market) is shaped by mindshare.

Nintendo has 98% of the handheld market. If the PSP is over 150$, it won't be anything more than a novelty device. That and support for the PSP will be limited at start because the costs for developing a game for the system is much much more than making something for the Gameboy series. The main thing that might lead to trouble for Nintendo is if Sony makes the UMD format compatible with the PS3. Even then, battery life would be a major issue for a system like this, and if the batteries don't last, the system won't either.

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Then someone coupled the above point about how profitable Nintendo is and how profitable Microsoft isn't.  Yes that's a good point if we're talking about a merger or a buyout...but not a PARTNERSHIP.  Microsoft can continue to do business the way they want to and Nintendo likewise...only now they get to share each others games to garner more support from retailers, gamers, developers & publishers alike!

Again, why is beating Sony so important to you? Did you buy a faulty Playstation 2 and now hate them for it? Why is it so important to beat the PS2? Nintendo is doing fine. They're finally getting true RPG support and even Microsoft lacks that. There is no doubt for me that by the end of this generation, Nintendo will be number two and Microsoft will be dead last.

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I used to be very anti-MS, still have a part of me that is...but I can't deny their strengths in the games market.  And while alot of the anti-MS sentiment will gladly point out how much Microsoft is "throwing away" on the X-BOX, they ignore the fact that that's the way Microsoft planned to do it anyways.  They knew that in order to garner support away from the industry leader (Sony) and the industry veteran (Nintendo) they would have to spend spend spend.  That doesn't forever mean they are gonna lose and never gain.  In fact I would wager to say that's one of the reasons they would want to partner with Nintendo...why...'cos despite their dwindling market presense and despite competing against two behemoth companies Nintendo remains profitable.  I mean look, they went to ATi just as Nintendo did so therefore you know they're looking to get more bang for their buck just like Nintendo did with GAMECUBE (which despite it's power being closely on par with the X-BOX, cost them a fraction of what was spent on the X-BOX).  To me, that's a big indicator that Microsoft wants to learn from Nintendo so that instead of "wasting" money on their game projects they can instead MAKE money like Nintendo does.

Basically Microsoft wants to leech off Nintendo. When has anyone ever wanted a leech on them?

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The comment about "if Nintendo wanted to win, they'd add DVD" bla bla bla is so lame.  There is no ONE way for any company to "win".  And who said anything really about winning?  I just said with a partnership with Microsoft they'd do better to actually be able to truly compete against Sony.  The best thing about this is that instead of having two competitors being seperate they would only have ONE being together...and those odds are alot better than what they've got now.

The lack of DVD affected Nintendo's image in more ways than you'd care to admit, but anyway, this is such a stupid argument. All you're saying is basically that you don't believe Nintendo can help itself out of the where it's at and that's why they should team up with Microsoft. I on the other hand believe they don't need Microsoft.

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You guys need to get out of the mentality that Microsoft would somehow OWN Nintendo by partnering with them.  What I am thinking of (and surely they are thinking of if they're considering getting together) would be less risky, less expensive and be more benificial all the while not compromising one anothers plans/philosophies.  The idea is simply that they're format would be universal between the two systems so that each others games sell to each others markets increasing their mindshare, their userbase and their overall pressense in the industry.

If Nintendo wanted a universal format, why did they stick to cartridges? Why did they use a proprietery format for the Gamecube? You don't get it. They want to own the media they use. They don't want to share. And it's not that Microsoft would own Nintendo, it's that Nintendo doesn't need Microsoft. Nintendo is too good for Microsoft.

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Imagine, as a Nintendo fan, walking into a GameStop and Nintendo (with of course Microsoft) FINALLY getting the shelfspace and placement they desserve.  Imagine reading a mainstream news article about video games where, instead of them dogging, forgetting or downright ignoring Nintendo, they actually talk about them and give them their proper respect.  Imagine being able to read a game magazine where someone is actually happy to reveiw a Nintendo game and not pissing on it 'cos it was a "sloppy port" or "not on the right system" bla bla bla.  Imagine actually having 3RD parties making games for YOU instead of sighing 'cos the game is on everything else but Nintendo's system.  Imagine a GameStop clerk actually telling you that the newest M Rated game IS in for your Nintendo system and IS available instead of him snooding out: "teH GAMEPUBE is R teH kiddie and therefore we don't carry that game 'cos they don't sell for it!"  Imagine Nintendo's delight when the damned shareholders are off their NUTS and they can stop worrying about them and how their marketshare is dwindling and instead worry about making games better all the while watching their games soar up top selling charts 'cos now (thanks to Microsoft's audience buying their games too) their games are selling way better.  Imagine a game conversation where people actually take Nintendo seriously.  Imagine asking someone to play a Nintendo game and/or on a Nintendo system with them and them not staring at you and saying: "don't you have an X-BOXda or a PlayStation yo!"

You have issues with being accepted don't you? You want Nintendo to team with Microsoft because then that GameStop clerk will stop calling the system a "Gamepube"? I'm sorry, but that's just sad in more ways than one. I don't play games to be accepted. I play videogames to have fun.

Beyond that, you don't really know if what you said will happen if Microsoft teams up with Nintendo. It's called wishful thinking. You would like to think it would happen, but maybe it would make both companies look desperate in trying to beat Sony and that might would hurt their image more than anything else in the long run.  

[The Omen]

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I can't believe any of you would think that Nintendo & Sony would ever work together. Sony doesn't want to and Nintendo doesn't want to...blam...simple as that. The Microsoft situation is different 'cos you KNOW that Microsoft DOES want to get with Nintendo...right now it's just a question of if Nintendo will even consider it.

First off: I have stated several times that neither is likely.  But i'm saying that it makes much more sense to team up with Sony than MS.  Because of the many things i've stated in previous posts.  

Secondly:  Of course MS wants to 'partner' with Nintendo.  Thats rather obvious.  But its just to have the Nintendo games, and keep them from competing.  I'm sure Sony most definately would as well, for the right price.   I dont think Nintendo will partner with anyone.  They don't need to.

[Celebi]

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I mean look, they went to ATi just as Nintendo did so therefore you know they're looking to get more bang for their buck just like Nintendo did with GAMECUBE (which despite it's power being closely on par with the X-BOX, cost them a fraction of what was spent on the X-BOX).

Well look how unloyal MS is to their partners?Dishing Nvidia when there is no more use to them.They went to ATI because their relationship with Nvidia soured thats the true reason.That will happen to Nintendo as well later on when they eat up Nintendo's market share.

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BUT...most of those profits come from milking the GameBoy brand...a brand which will soon be threatened by the PSP.

Sony hasn't disclosed the real name of the PSP yet.It is just the name of the prototype handheld device Sony is making.If Nintendo partners Sony it would probably be the next GB.There are a lot of possible ways the PSP can be made.It could be incorporated into a discman,handheld device,cell phone,PDA and into vehicles as well.Well Sony will not call it the PSP as its official name.

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Microsoft can continue to do business the way they want to and Nintendo likewise...only now they get to share each others games to garner more support from retailers, gamers, developers & publishers alike!

Why not with Sony?Don't you think Nintendo can gain even more?Haha you've got brainwashed by Windows.

[DrGAKMAN]

You've got me pegged seriously wrong and you're on some kind of attack or something.  You need to count to ten and breath easy.  I'm not here to cause trouble and I don't hate Nintendo or anything like that.  I'm a Nintendo-only gamer...but I'd be a blind fanatic if I was saying Nintendo is A-Okay and will be fine.  The general concensus amoung casual gamers & gamers who don't own a GAMECUBE is that Nintendo is on a downward spiral...even Steven Kent acknowledges this.

YES Nintendo is profitable.

YES I'm plenty satisfied with the GAMECUBE and could care less what other people think of me or my choice in video games.

BUT...I'm not the typical every day casual gamer...and these are the people that are driving this industry now and yet, they're ignoring Nintendo.  They will continue to ignore Nintendo until Nintendo has no marketshare 'cos they have no support from gamers, retailers or developers.  I'm sorry, but it'll eventually happen unless something drastic happens to change their image...not only with people who follow games (like us), but the mainstream who ignore Nintendo now.

Also, you're comments about the PSP are...retarded.  You think this is Sony's first product?  You think they're gonna make some kind of silly mistake like not offer a good enough battery power supply?  You think they're not gonna lower the price if people aren't bitting (and by the way $150 + the Sony PlayStation name + alot of fed-up GameBoy gamers = INSTANT buyers for PSP on launch day)  Rediculous.  And what's this about developers not supporting PSP?  Believe me developers will be milking the old PSX games on the PSP just as quickly and easily as developers milked their old 16BIT games on GBA.  UMD's will be cheaper and hold loads more data than GameBoy carts.  No where am I saying that Nintendo is gonna die.  Nowhere am I saying Nintendo doesn't have a plan to combat this.  HOWEVER...I'm not blind to the fact that the PSP is a threat to Nintendo's biggest money maker: the GameBoy line.  It's taking all of Nintendo's resources just to support an ailing console line and keep their portable dominance...what makes you think they won't be hurting when the PSP (for once, a serious competitor to GameBoy) stabs into their portable dominance?

So dwidling userbase in their console line and now a major threat to their portable money maker approaches...how profitable will Nintendo be once the next generation rolls around, huh?  Seriously?

Oh yeah dude and calm down with quoting me and stuff, you'd think you were actually retorting me by calling me biased or stupid...it's not working.  Besides you don't even seem to be reading my posts, instead you think I'm trying to offend you or something.  Not at all.  I love Nintendo....but I'd be a fool not to admit that they could be in trouble if they don't do something.  Nowhere am I stating that Nintendo & Microsoft ARE getting together...I'm just speculating the possibilities.  I'm a speculatory person.  Oh yeah and the fact still remains (even Matt from IGN CUBE has admitted this) that Microsoft WANTS to team up with Nintendo...so it IS a possibility that the rumors of them actually getting together could hold some merrit.  So instead of being blind to the fact that Sony & Nintendo hate each other and will NEVER work together, maybe you should look at the truth that Microsoft wants to get with Nintendo next generation.

Oh yeah, and your stance of "Nintendo can do it on their own" is respectable and nowhere do I say they can't do it on their own, but it'd be alot easier if Microsoft was working with them to acheive a common goal.  To be taken seriously as a true competitor towards Sony instead of being scoffed at by the mainstream so they can thus be more profitable 'cos they have more marketshare...blam...simple as that.

I have alot more to say...but I'm going to be late to work if I don't get going.  Bye for now...

[Uglydot]

While I agree that it may be helpful that Nintendo pairs up with someone, I doubt they will.  Nintendo does tend to hate sharing and whenever they have started to pair up on the past, they cut ties (sony).   It is a possiblity that Ninendo will pair up, but I still doubt it from their past actions.

EDIT:nice to see you posting again dr GAK

[Mannypon]

I just noticed something, microsoft hasnt really said much on their new system and niether has nintendo except the fact that they are both usin ati whereas sony has already gone out and given people more info like what kind of media they'll be using and whatnot.  What if they are both waitin onto e3 or somethin to announce the joint venture and all that.  Didnt nintendo's president say there was a new product goin to be unvieled this coming yr.  I know it could be anything but who knows, maybe it all ties together in a way.  Regardless, doubt this will happen but its always fun to speculate, specially when there is no real news goin around to talk bout.

[theRPGFreak]

I skipped through this forum about MS and Nintendo real fast. Aren't they talking about the ATI company? They are making both chips for the next consoles.
Don't be afraid to make me sound like a dumbass!

[Celebi]

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I just noticed something, microsoft hasnt really said much on their new system and niether has nintendo except the fact that they are both usin ati whereas sony has already gone out and given people more info like what kind of media they'll be using and whatnot.

Can you tell me what media is the PS3 using?When Sony announced about the cell,it was just in general.Its just like saying the next Xbox will be using a Pentium but how high the frequency and all that isn't announced yet.They only disclosed the prototype/ first generation cell chip specs only.Thats all.The Cel is just another family of chips used by IBM.There will be various flavour for it.Same goes for the Elpida/Rambus XDR DRAMS.

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Also, you're comments about the PSP are...retarded. You think this is Sony's first product? You think they're gonna make some kind of silly mistake like not offer a good enough battery power supply? You think they're not gonna lower the price if people aren't bitting (and by the way $150 + the Sony PlayStation name + alot of fed-up GameBoy gamers = INSTANT buyers for PSP on launch day) Rediculous. And what's this about developers not supporting PSP? Believe me developers will be milking the old PSX games on the PSP just as quickly and easily as developers milked their old 16BIT games on GBA. UMD's will be cheaper and hold loads more data than GameBoy carts. No where am I saying that Nintendo is gonna die. Nowhere am I saying Nintendo doesn't have a plan to combat this. HOWEVER...I'm not blind to the fact that the PSP is a threat to Nintendo's biggest money maker: the GameBoy line. It's taking all of Nintendo's resources just to support an ailing console line and keep their portable dominance...what makes you think they won't be hurting when the PSP (for once, a serious competitor to GameBoy) stabs into their portable dominance?

The PSP will not only be in the form of a handheld console like the GBA.Its a techology that can be incorporated into discmans,PDAs as well as the gameboy.They have a brandname that can sell too as well.If they join up with MS they will also have to fork out money to make a new GB as well so why not go with Sony?The advantages are even more.All I can say Microsoft is sort of a leech.They can't design hardware by themselves instead they prey on companies to do it for them like a parasite.They will just trash the company when there is no more use for them.Why would Nintendo take the risk partnering such a company,when there is another one which has everything it needs?

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So instead of being blind to the fact that Sony & Nintendo hate each other and will NEVER work together

If they hate each oher so much there won't be any FF series on the cube and GB today.
But look at MS instead Nintendo just prevented MS from taking over by selling their own shares away and buying them back for new funds.

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maybe you should look at the truth that Microsoft wants to get with Nintendo next generation.

To eliminate them because Nintendo is in the way of kissing Sony's ass?

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I'm a speculatory person.

Well let me tell you something which Xbox fans have to worry:
http://money.cnn.com/2003/08/27/commentary/game_over/column_gaming/

Anyway there is no need for Nintendo to team up for now.But they have showed signs of declining already.I don't know how long they can take it because their main threat now nearest to them is MS not Sony.Its either second or third place.The competition will be even more furious in the next generation.Teaming up with their nearest rival is nothing but losing everything.

[DrGAKMAN]

I'm sorry if I got a rise outta everyone with my wild speculation...but you shouldn't let it offend you...it's just speculation on some rumors.

Yes...Both Nintendo & Microsoft are getting their graphics LSI's designed by ATi for their next systems.  While there are some definate details of how this is working there are still some unanswered questions.  Pretty much the general consensus (at the gaming-age.com forums) is that one team (Art-X) is working with Nintendo on their next system's GPU while another ATi team is working on Microsoft's GPU.  ATi has said that they're two completly different chips on two different time frames.  We know that Nintendo has been working with ATi (the Art-X team) for a long while now so I would suspect that Nintendo's design would be done first as Microsoft only recently made the deal with ATi.  There's even speculation that ATi is working on the GBA successor  for Nintendo (which would mean that ATi has got a full plate right now).  There's also an *assumption* that Microsoft's next box will use an off the shelf next next generation PC graphics card from ATi like they did with nVidia this generation.

Mine and another guys theory at gaming-age is that Microsoft ditched nVidia 'cos they saw what ATi did for Nintendo and are going that route.  They may have also done it to open the communication lines a bit wider for a relationship with Nintendo.  Let's say Nintendo's chip is near completion and Microsoft and Nintendo are talking.  Let's say Microsoft (instead of going ahead with their own seperate chip) they go with a beefed up version of Nintendo's new GPU for their next system...in exchange a partnership with Nintendo.  Microsoft & Nintendo split the capital investment (saving them both millions AND pooling their resourses and making it even more powerful) on this chip which would be a sort of universal chip that would be used in both Nintendo's & Microsoft's next systems.  Since the chip is universal, developers can code for both systems at the same time with ease and games would be cross-playable on both systems as well.  They would have to agree on some key terms like licencing, a format, developement tools and controller/peripheral specifications/compatibility in order to make it work, but if they're both pooling their resources and both teaming up they could get there and by working together they'd get there faster, with a better performing chipset, without competing with one another AND each other's software on one another's systems...all the while without having to spend as much money on getting there since they both shared costs.

So it'd work out like this:
-Nintendo's next system is a gaming-focused machine (cheaper, bare-bones, possibly with an option to be portable)
-Microsoft's next machine is more on the PSX3 level with all the bells and whistles
-Both have a similar chipset core so games run the same on both systems and coding for them is much the same (Microsoft's may be beefed up more since it'll have more non-gaming applications)
-Both companies provide the capital for this universal chipset (thus pooling resources to up the specifications & lowering the individual companies investment loss)
-Microsoft would have their OS running these machines (which is what they really wanted all along (especially in their own set-top-box...Nintendo just makes it easier for them to get more marketshare for it and this shouldn't matter much to give Microsoft this 'cos Nintendo's machine will most likely be gaming-only and thus won't need as hefty an OS))
-Both companies work together to create a standerd universal format from which they split the 3RD party licensing profits 50/50 but don't charge each other to make games for (example: Nintendo gets no money from Microsoft 1ST & 2ND party games and vice versa)
-Nintendo SHOULD have a standerd controller set-up (WaveBird standerd) for both systems (Microsoft can create their own, but come on...even if the buyer chooses the Microsoft hardware, most will still choose Nintendo branded controllers to go with it)
-GameBoy connectivity should work on either platform with games that are compatible with it (all profits from GameBoy games, hardware & connectivity features STAY with Nintendo just as they would if working on their own...Microsoft can't touch this)
-X-BOX Live! should also work with both systems (all profits generated from monthly service fees would go to Microsoft just as they would if working on their own...Nintendo can't touch this)
-A Nintendo online structure can also be set-up for lower-end no-pay LAN-to-online tunnelling services and for those developers who want to make their own networks to profit from seperate from X-BOX Live!
-Microsoft will provide the developement kits (based on the latest DirectX) with much technical advisory from Nintendo when it comes to control set-up, compression techniques, GameBoy connectivity & peripheral compatibility)
-Game saves can be coded to work with either system (Microsoft's system's built-in HD or Nintendo's system's DigiCards)
-Bulk game data can be written on Microsoft's system's built-in HD or on Nintendo's system's SD/DigiCard Adaptor
-Nintendo should make the DigiCard format (most likely thru the controller) to fuction with trading data on Microsoft's machine as well as their own machine
-Microsoft should offer an external HD for Nintendo's system (most likely if Nintendo doesn't have one in their system) for those who might want it

Doing the above means that Nintendo profits from what's rightfully there's (their own games, GameBoy connectivity, controllers/peripherals, etc.) while not having to compromise their gaming-only philosophies in the partnership.  Likewise, Microsoft gets their hand in the set-top-box market with Nintendo's support to help garner more users and profits on what's rightfully theirs (their own games, XBL, OS/DirectX dev. tools, etc.).  They both conduct business as they normally would apart, the only thing that they partner with and have to agree on is a universal chipset, format & compatibility!  Think of it like Nintendo's recent software collaborations...only...it's hardware this time.

[Celebi]

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Microsoft would have their OS running these machines (which is what they really wanted all along (especially in their own set-top-box...Nintendo just makes it easier for them to get more marketshare for it and this shouldn't matter much to give Microsoft this 'cos Nintendo's machine will most likely be gaming-only and thus won't need as hefty an OS))

Look at the Dreamcast and where it ended?And Nintendo have to pay royalties to them for using it?

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X-BOX Live! should also work with both systems (all profits generated from monthly service fees would go to Microsoft just as they would if working on their own...Nintendo can't touch this)

I thought the PlayOnline gives more freedom to developers in designing their own networks.Haha Nintendo using DirectX?and get system lockups during gameplay?You are talking as though Nintendo are newbies in game designing that they need easy development kits using DirectX.MS just envy Nintendo because their DirectX sucks.

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Both companies work together to create a standerd universal format from which they split the 3RD party licensing profits 50/50 but don't charge each other to make games for (example: Nintendo gets no money from Microsoft 1ST & 2ND party games and vice versa)

Microsoft doesn't make storage media.They only fund other companies to do it for them.The leaders in optical medias are still Sony and Philips.

Now what ever MS does it will never make their way into the Japanese market as well as the other asian countries believe me.I still remember a picture whereby the japanese were laughing at the Xbox for being so bulky.By the way be it Nintendo and Sony doesn't need them.Sony already has world class partners and Nintendo just won't die because they have many companies with them in Japan.

[Celebi]

Anyway I noticed recently that many Xbox fans are really getting worried about Sony's PS3.I have seen similar threads like this about Microsoft teaming up with Nintendo sprawling all over Xbox sites like Xboxactive.com and Teamxbox.com.Looks like they are really getting desperate because the Xbox is coming out last this generation and their future looks dim.

I can see what will Ati work out if it plans to deliver for 2 companies.Well for Nintendo the ArtX team will design the proprietary console VPU for them and then sell its licensed to Nintendo and NEC to manufacture them.As for Microsoft Ati will manufacture them themselves and design the board exclusively for them.They will probably come out with a pc-like component design again.Haha if its a pc design then I don't see anything revolutionary with it except for a faster P4 P4 processor DDR2 sdram and all that.

[ShutEye]

Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm guessing that everybody is going to go it alone. Far too many legal hassels to worry about in any other
situation.

Whats interesting is that the Moneyline article and other rumours/news about graphic chips suggests that Nintendo may be
further along in its dev cycle than either Sony or Microsoft. Maybe Nintendo will be on time for once.

[DrGAKMAN]

I know Nintendo will be on time...that could be why Microsoft wants in on it.

I do get a sense of dread coming from Microsoft & X-BOX fans.  I mean Sony's been laying the hype out on PSX3 for a WHILE now and Nintendo is very far along in developement of their next system.  I heard Microsoft was desperate to get a big holiday seller (like Splinter Cell last year) this year, let alone having trouble with the next system.

I have a feeling though, that despite this, that the X-BOX will be on a rise in people's minds for next generation 'cos of what they've done this generation...but that's only if they can keep it up.  If Nintendo is going to go it alone (much more likely than teaming with anyone) again next generation then who's to say they can't widen their 2ND place lead so much as to get alot of notice and then THEY could be on a rise in people's minds in time for next generation.  All that and plus they could be very early and should be out for a bit before the competition with their next system.

The problem is, up until then retailers, the media and casual gamers in general will just have this ignoring attitude towards Nintendo.  Hate to say it, but Nintendo's image is a big problem for them and teaming with Microsoft is about the best thing they could to fix that instantly in alot of people's minds.  But Nintendo has never really been too too concerned about mindshare even since before Sony came into the market.  They just continue to do as they do and somehow remain profitable.

Whenever I have these speculatory notions (heh...dreams) I go to grand levels, but now I'm sorta on a recoil in my mind.  I mean there would be alot to worry about when teaming with Microsoft:
-The real money is in software and by splitting those profits with another grubby company that would just hurt Nintendo in the long run
-Splitting profits also means splitting control...what if they beat Sony so badly they eventually force them out in a couple generations and thus their format is the leading in the industry...that's when I'm sure Microsoft would start trying to jerk the choke chains on Nintendo like as if they're the leader
-If things didn't work out between them then what?
-Back-stabbing
-Nintendo doesn't need backing, they've got cash, so they don't need Microsoft in that sense at all
-Alot of retailers/gamers/developers just don't respect Nintendo 'cos of their opinions towards the company...would teaming up with Microsoft change alot of these people's opinions...or just some...or worse yet, would these same opinions now look at Nintendo as "selling out" or still the same old kiddie company now b!tched into making games for M$?
-Nintendo still has the strong GameBoy brand...Microsoft shouldn't be anywhere near it...at all
-Microsoft is pretty much dissed for their OS & dev. tools sometimes...would this be what Nintendo would want?
-Nintendo doesn't need Microsoft in the Japanese market, let alone to garner good Japanese support...eventually all those Japanese companies who were PAID to make games for X-BOX this generation will instead focus on Nintendo's next system as their 2ND or (if Sony makes mistakes) even 1ST system ignoring Microsoft 'cos they have no kind of hold in Japan whatsoever
-Speaking of Sony mistakes, if they make them then Nintendo would have to share the glory with Microsoft in "beating" them if it ever came to that
-Nintendo would ultimatly have more control going at it alone, and if they end up with more marketshare it would be THEIRS and not have to be shared
-Nintendo's gaming-only philosophy could be the very one to exploit Microsoft's & Sony's all-in-one philosophy as a weakness in the end...being with Microsoft would only tarnish that philosophy for Nintendo

While I still think this is up in the air (wether they'd get together or not) I think ultimatly (like alot of you here) that Nintendo would rather go it alone again next generation.  Nintendo needs to somehow widen the 2ND place gap between them & Microsoft so that coming off this generation they're not seen as "last place" and may be seen as what's hot just in time for the release of their next system.  They also need to keep their current GAMECUBE audience happy (the Nintendo Club is a good idea for this) so as to put hope that Nintendo will still be the same ol' Nintendo next generation and will still be around to compete.  I really do think that Nintendo still needs a drastic overhaul of their image 'cos their pressense in retail (and rental, believe me, I see it first hand at work) is sadly way behind Microsoft's image/pressense...let alone Sony's!  I mean if you were to go into any store you would think that Sony is in first place (which they are), Microsoft is in a close 2ND (which they're NOT...worldwide they're third and they're nowhere NEAR Sony) and that Nintendo is on life support, dead last in the back corner with no mature games and will not be around next generation.

It just pisses me off that the company I work for (Blockbuster) and companies like GameStop (who own all the Babbages', Software Etc.'s,  GameStop's & FunCoLand's), G4 and ZiffDavis (who write just about every major video game magazine) are ALL under the opinion that Nintendo is nothing while they praise and worship Microsoft for being slightly ahead of Nintendo in the U.S. with the X-BOX.  It's sad that only higher numbers will make them change their opinions of Nintendo, when they themselves are one of the bigger problems in why Nintendo is perceived as dead and therefore have lower numbers.  That GameStop clerk pissed me off when he told me: "M Rated games *don't* sell on the GAMECUBE"...MAYBE THEY WOULD IF YOU CARRIED THEM DIPPY!!!  And I have this aching feeling that Blockbuster won't carry Nintendo's next system (or even if they do they'll treat it worse than they did this one) and that just makes me sad 'cos there's lots of customers who ask: "why don't you carry more GAMECUBE games?"  It's like Blockbuster saying: Dear customer, f*ck you...you bought the wrong system!  Oh well...I can't do anything about it...I've tried but they say the same thing to me that every other place does: "games like that don't rent on GAMECUBE"...MAYBE THEY WOULD IF YOU CARRIED THEM DIPPY!  It's like everyone who's in power at these companies made up their minds before GAMECUBE even launched that it was going nowhere...and I have a feeling that it'll be the same thing or even worse next generation unless Nintendo talks to these companies dirrectly or starts gaining major marketshare between now and next generation.

[Celebi]

Well Nintendo still has NEC and Hitachi being the hardware partners for their next generation console.The PowerPC line of processors could still be their next console's processor as IBM has many division making chips.
If they wanted to just concentrate on software,Sega is a better choice for them to merge with as they will have a wider choice of consoles to design games for.By going with either MS or Sony would mean that they will be only limiting themselves to help only a single console.Why should they offer to help other companies?

[DrGAKMAN]

I used to think that teaming with Sega would be so awesome, but Sega's management is so damned horrid it would really hurt Nintendo more to team with them than anyone else.

I have heard that NEC is VERY involved with Nintendo's next system, but I've only heard a couple blurbs about Hitachi and I really wouldn't know what they'd bring to the table (I do know they did some CPU work & the GD-ROM drive for the DreamCast).  IBM, to me, is in question 'cos no one has talked about Nintendo working with them anymore ever since The CELL had been conceptualized.  I did hear a rumor that Nintendo had gotten together (along with NEC) to create the CPU for the next system with Cray SuperComputers and that it would be a 2 T-FLOP performance level CPU (The CELL is only 1 to 1.5T-FLOP's at this point).  And as far as the drive goes Matt (from IGN) said it would be DVD based which I would assume would be like full-sized DVD's instead of mini-DVD's.  By this time DVD tech. would be so cheap though that Nintendo could be VERY competitive with licencing fees (especially since Sony is most likely going for the newer BRD tech. in PSX3).  Nintendo may be hindered by the fact that it doesn't hold as much data or offer writability, but I really dunno if alot of developers are gonna need 23 to 50GB capacities for their games even next generation...it may end up costing them too much to make games of this size which ultimatly backfires on Sony for using it.  Plus it would be so cheap to impliment that Nintendo could spend more money on other things like more eDRAM or a more powerful chipset.  Who would provide such a drive...hopefully Panasonic again to ensure backwords compatibility, but who knows?

I've compiled a list of facts & rumors to suggest that Nintendo's next system will be a uber-console/portable and would launch in between the PSP & PSX3 with it.  I'll post it later once I'm done etching up some conceptual bitmaps of such a system.

[KDR_11k]

Starting with standard DVDs next gen might be the worst thing to do. The GC is more profitable because you have to buy a game for it, you can't simply warez it. By the time the next generation launches DVD writers will be a lot more common and everyone and their dog will pirate the games instead of buying them. This would have devastating effects on the sales. I mean, a good GC game sells about a million, now imagine what if half of those one million buyers would pirate it instead. Suddently N might not be the company with the highest profits anymore...

[Mario]

OMG SO MUCH FALSE INFORMATION IN THIS THREAD IM ABOUT TO EXPLODE

*urge to quote every single post and pull it apart sentence by sentence... rising*

[__nonjagged__]

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Originally posted by: Celebi

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The thought behind it is similar to the joining of forces between Suzuki and Kawasaki Motorcycles. Three years ago, if you stated that they would join forces, you would be laughed out of the building. Now, look what has happened. Neither company standing alone could compete with Honda, and both were floundering in their efforts to gain any significant ground.

Well you see they are both Japanese companies whereas Microsoft is American while Nintendo has always been traditionally a Japanese company at heart that grew from a small entertainment company doing card business into what people know today.Rare may have got sold but Nintendo is always considered a valueble asset for tha Japanese when it comes to console gaming business.Imagine all those efforts put into building up Nintendo throughout those many years being just taken away from a foreign company just for money?

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And this talk of M$ is "teh greedy M$$ suxxorzz!!111!" is crap. Basically, all issues would be worked out in the contract negotiations. I can see two differing consoles with each having their own "bells and whistles", but having compatibility between them. Revenue sharing, licensing, etc. would be worked out prior.

Look what happened to Nvidia today?Rare just got swallowed by MS..Sega almost got tricked too.So what can Microsoft contribute if they were to teamed up with Nintendo?Cash?Installed base?Technology?Sony can do that too as well as a matter of fact even better in some of these areas.
But think of it that way if Nintendo was to sell out to an American bully by teaming up with MS just for $$ sake, wonder what will happen with the current software community such as SquareEnix,Konami,Capcom,Atlus,SNK react?The fact that why the FF series,DragonQuest did not make it on the Xbox could answer that.

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also have a 6-year old daughter. Now, when I only had one console, the kids' choice for games was crap. Now, had I had a console that could offer me games such as Mario, Pikmin, etc, as well as play Halo, Knights of the Old Republic, etc.... the console choice for the older gamer (in my mind) would be a "no-brainer".

Well I think you don't quite understand what most Asian console gamers want.You may want adult oriented real FPS,real action gaming and may think adventure games like MArio,Zelda,Pikmin,Pokemon,Digimon,Akira Toriyama's works i.eragonball,Hayoki Miyazaki's anime suck but do you know that many Asian youngsters are crazy about them?Thats where the money are and if you think that Nintendo should cater to adults like you,you're wrong because the real market consoles are targeted today is not your group type.They are still aimed at kids.The type of games you'll probably like which are adult/mature type oriented can be found on pcs.So why do you want Nintendo to support MS?Wouldn't the Xbox which is basically designed more towards the PC architecture be more appropriate for you?In this context as well so can Sony cater for the older group as well.They have EA games at their side.

Celebi its nice to know at least someone in this thread knows what theyre talking about.

Gamers dont think straight anymore these days. Clouted judgments at best.
The thought of Nintendo agreeing to a Universal data format with M$ is almost as incomprehensibly naive as Nintendo joining with $ony to produce a system.
$ony owns the gaming market now and in decades to come, fullstop and Im a Nintendo fanboy not afraid to admit it.  Biggest install userbase means nothing to me.
$ony's cell chipsets are going to be in just about every mainstream digital appliance, we not talking just set-top-box servers here, were talking electrical appliances, entertainment appliances just about everything that runs off electricity or rechargeable batteries and eventually will talk to each other.

Nintendo does not aim to challenge this (never has) but focus on creating games (and please lets wait to see what new franchises they have promised us before we right them off already) and even now M$ has admited defeat to $ony and is now claiming they will focus on Xbox Live and not launch a handheld to compete with PSP), rather than continue the usual snyde public remarks against Nintendo because M$ is too embarrest to attack $ony directly.

Back on track,
Nintendo has just spent the last 2 generations of consoles staying well away from Universal data formats (CD-ROM, DVD) because Nintendo is more concerned about protected its software it actually creates not just publishes.
Universal data mediums equates only to one thing. The plague we know as PIRACY.
Nintendo teaming up with that other plague that is known as M$ will never happen. M$ platforms are the breeding ground for piracy/hacking/emus etc and everything that Nintendo stands firmly against.
The thought of M$ fanboys intentionally hacking into Peach character models and turning her into a what the mainstream community call it these days "mature character" ie. a topless hooker or something "mature" just boggles the mind at the shortsightedness of these Universal format theorists.
Also teaming up with that plague known as M$ means that Nintendo software would be forced to run on DirectX which is primitive compared to Nintendo's Open GL/Apple Mac type tools.

Other than Celebi who displays signs of intelligent life-form, all these thoughts and theories discussed in this thread are primitive at best, if you research the viability to Nintendo.
In my opinion I think that because $ony is now using IBM (GCN CPU) and M$ is now using ATI (GCN GPU) to systematically dismantle Nintendo at the core, that you guys believe that either one of them want Nintendo to join with them by aquiring the same chip producers when in fact its merely the competition trying to take away the chip producers from Nintendo just as they have taken away the software distribution networks from Nintendo and continually tightening their dirty hands around Nintendo's neck.

Instead of theorists self-claiming Nintendo is aiming to get back the largest install base by not just selling-out but going against a full 2 decades of firm principles for using proprietory software to protect its establishment by using some sort of dodgy Universal format that gets cracked within a year, theorists should wake up and visualise eg. Panasonic developing a more bigger storage of the GOD hybrid which would leave M$ alone with something like a Super DVD format or whatever, where standard DVD could be read on the SDVD format, because as of today M$ cannot afford to create a radical proprietory DISC format thats not mainstream or universal bec M$ had hard enough trouble trying to sell its mainstream format Xbox console.

Nintendo has profitably created proprietory format consoles for the past decades and will do so for as long as it takes to be one of the surviving platforms in this war. Nintendo is willing to sacrifice getting the largest instal userbase as a result of being proprietory.
The question is how long will the other competitors survive if they each take on radically new proprietory formats and are not teaming up (like $ony & M$ did this gen).  

[KDR_11k]

1. I thought some admin once said "M$" and "$ony" were blocked?
2. nonjagged: Chip researchers/manufacturers are in high demand. It's not uncommon for them to work for multiple rivalling companies at the same time. I bet there are some manufacturers making both nVidia and ATI chips or Intel and AMD. This has nothing to do with stealing companies. BTW, I've heard a rumor that N works with Cray Supercomputers as well as IBM.

[__nonjagged__]

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Originally posted by: KDR_11k
1. I thought some admin once said "M$" and "$ony" were blocked?
2. nonjagged: Chip researchers/manufacturers are in high demand. It's not uncommon for them to work for multiple rivalling companies at the same time. I bet there are some manufacturers making both nVidia and ATI chips or Intel and AMD. This has nothing to do with stealing companies. BTW, I've heard a rumor that N works with Cray Supercomputers as well as IBM.

Im aware of your points above which I agree to, however the competitors ($ony & M$) will eventually (if Nintendo continues to have an install userbase of more than 10MIL per next-gen platform) give incentives to the chip manufacturers to favor their platform and push aside the "kiddie" stuff hardware.

Weve seen the competing platforms do it with 3rd party software.

They've done it with distribution/retailers to a large extent they will do it with hardware component suppliers if Nintendo continues to be more profitable than the competitors.

M$ is The Borg (spell check).

 

[MadMan]

That doesn't make sense though.  If two entirely different teams are creating two entirely different chips for the two consoles.  Why stop making them for either one when you're making major profits off it?  (Except for MS who will probably screw over ATI too.)