Author Topic: Switchmas Eve Rumors and Speculations Thread  (Read 475579 times)

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Offline MagicCow64

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Re: Switch Rumors and Speculation Thread (Mighty Switch Force Edition)
« Reply #2675 on: December 01, 2016, 04:50:28 PM »
Zelda 1:1 motion controls

I think there's about zero chance of that happening. If you'd played Skyward Sword, you'd know that the 1:1 motion controls of that game were not cosmetic. The entire game is essentially based around controlling Link like an action figure. There'd be no way to port it to traditional controls without neutering the experience. BotW meanwhile is clearly fully playable with the standard gamepad setup. The most you'd see is something like the Twilight Princess Wii port, with waggle sword and pointer aiming.

Offline Agent-X-

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Re: Switch Rumors and Speculation Thread (Mighty Switch Force Edition)
« Reply #2676 on: December 01, 2016, 06:44:42 PM »
But it's not Wii U Port-ready, because it doesn't have a second screen.


Let's not overthink it.


The Switch has millions of second screens (tablets and phones) if it really [has] to have it for any of the Wii U's best titles. All it would take is an app from Nintendo. Besides, there are really only a few great titles that fully realized the potential of the second screen, so I hardly think of this as a barrier.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2016, 06:47:37 PM by Agent-X- »

Offline ThePerm

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Re: Switch Rumors and Speculation Thread (Mighty Switch Force Edition)
« Reply #2677 on: December 02, 2016, 11:02:50 PM »
Amazon leaked Yooka Laylee's release date as March 17th.

What are the chances that will be Switch's release date as well.

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Offline Stogi

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Re: Switch Rumors and Speculation Thread (Mighty Switch Force Edition)
« Reply #2678 on: December 03, 2016, 03:12:25 AM »
I was thinking about the Skyrim port on Wii, along with possible Zelda ports, and wondered what could make them worth it. And the first thing that came to mind was perfect 1-1 motion controls.

I loved Skyrim and despite how many hours I put into it before putting it down, I'd definitely play it again, but with motion controls, it'd be even better. Motion controls would also allow for faster menu navigation for weapon selection, etc.

I've also never played Skyward Sword (though I want to but don't have a Wii or WiiU) but one of the main gripes I hear about it, is the motion controls. A port of SS with 1-1 motion controls and the other issues fixed would be great for returning Nintendo players like me. OooT, and every other Zelda would also benefit from 1-1 motion controls (maybe not Wind Waker as much because of the combo battle system) and could be good for the system. I know "gimmick" will be the first thing to come from some people, but let's also remember that Todd Howard was really impressed with the demo. What if the motion controls are what impressed him?

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Offline Evan_B

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Re: Switch Rumors and Speculation Thread (Mighty Switch Force Edition)
« Reply #2679 on: December 03, 2016, 12:46:01 PM »
Let's not overthink it.

The Switch has millions of second screens (tablets and phones) if it really [has] to have it for any of the Wii U's best titles. All it would take is an app from Nintendo. Besides, there are really only a few great titles that fully realized the potential of the second screen, so I hardly think of this as a barrier.
I'm not saying that there are a number of games that utilized the second screen well, but I am saying that a "quick fix" like a mobile app is not going to do the job. The gamepad was a device with tech that synced directly to the console. Some of its uses were minute, but integral.

This kind of brings me to another gripe I have about a Switch title, which is the inevitable Spla2n. One of the most beneficial aspects of the game, and something that I think will be damaged in getting rid of the second screen, is the way it functioned as a progress tracker. Without that information being easily available, I can't see myself enjoying the game as much.
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Re: Switch Rumors and Speculation Thread (Mighty Switch Force Edition)
« Reply #2680 on: December 03, 2016, 04:42:14 PM »
I was thinking about the Skyrim port on Wii, along with possible Zelda ports, and wondered what could make them worth it. And the first thing that came to mind was perfect 1-1 motion controls.

I loved Skyrim and despite how many hours I put into it before putting it down, I'd definitely play it again, but with motion controls, it'd be even better. Motion controls would also allow for faster menu navigation for weapon selection, etc.

I've also never played Skyward Sword (though I want to but don't have a Wii or WiiU) but one of the main gripes I hear about it, is the motion controls. A port of SS with 1-1 motion controls and the other issues fixed would be great for returning Nintendo players like me. OooT, and every other Zelda would also benefit from 1-1 motion controls (maybe not Wind Waker as much because of the combo battle system) and could be good for the system. I know "gimmick" will be the first thing to come from some people, but let's also remember that Todd Howard was really impressed with the demo. What if the motion controls are what impressed him?

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Six more weeks and we'll know everything there is to know about the Switch. Hopefully the rumored price point is true.
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Offline Kairon

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Re: Switch Rumors and Speculation Thread (Mighty Switch Force Edition)
« Reply #2681 on: December 03, 2016, 07:33:20 PM »
The rumor is $249 base model, $299 upgraded model with possible pack-in right?
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Offline Agent-X-

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Re: Switch Rumors and Speculation Thread (Mighty Switch Force Edition)
« Reply #2682 on: December 04, 2016, 09:04:47 AM »
Let's not overthink it.

The Switch has millions of second screens (tablets and phones) if it really [has] to have it for any of the Wii U's best titles. All it would take is an app from Nintendo. Besides, there are really only a few great titles that fully realized the potential of the second screen, so I hardly think of this as a barrier.
I'm not saying that there are a number of games that utilized the second screen well, but I am saying that a "quick fix" like a mobile app is not going to do the job. The gamepad was a device with tech that synced directly to the console. Some of its uses were minute, but integral.

This kind of brings me to another gripe I have about a Switch title, which is the inevitable Spla2n. One of the most beneficial aspects of the game, and something that I think will be damaged in getting rid of the second screen, is the way it functioned as a progress tracker. Without that information being easily available, I can't see myself enjoying the game as much.


So will your phone or tablet via bluetooth. All the gamepad does (beyond being a controller) is stream video from the console.


When I make this sort of offhand claim about Wii U ports it's with an expectation that we understand there is some feasible intelligent solution available. I only said the NS is Wii U port ready because it is literally already getting Wii U ports. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Offline Evan_B

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Re: Switch Rumors and Speculation Thread (Mighty Switch Force Edition)
« Reply #2683 on: December 04, 2016, 10:12:40 AM »
I understand that some intelligent, feasible solution is available. But I don't think it involves mobile devices, because I don't think that's an intelligent solution.
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Offline Agent-X-

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Re: Switch Rumors and Speculation Thread (Mighty Switch Force Edition)
« Reply #2684 on: December 04, 2016, 06:32:13 PM »
I understand that some intelligent, feasible solution is available. But I don't think it involves mobile devices, because I don't think that's an intelligent solution.


Ok, so now we've gone full circle. Originally you said the Switch isn't Wii U port-ready even though it's already getting ports from Wii U.  :confused;
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 08:42:00 PM by Agent-X- »

Offline ThePerm

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Re: Switch Rumors and Speculation Thread (Mighty Switch Force Edition)
« Reply #2685 on: December 04, 2016, 06:51:39 PM »
Most game engines handle porting pretty easily. In unity, it's as simple as a box in the publishing window.



i've never used unreal 4(my computer is really old) but apparently, this is what it looks like on it.

« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 06:56:08 PM by ThePerm »
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Offline Evan_B

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Re: Switch Rumors and Speculation Thread (Mighty Switch Force Edition)
« Reply #2686 on: December 04, 2016, 07:09:34 PM »
Ok, so now we've gone full circle. Originally you said the Wii U isn't port-ready even though it's already getting ports from Wii U.  :confused;
No, I never said the Wii U isn't port-ready. The Switch is not Wii U port ready. There is certainly some way to make Wii U games work on the Switch, but I don't think it will be the method you described, and I don't think it will be simple. It will require reworking of the games in order to either remove or integrate the dual-screen mechanics so that it functions for a single screen.

The Switch is MORE Wii port ready because it has the remote and nunchuk hardware available in the system, and the games will likely not differ in performance from translating motion controls to those devices. Does that mean a port will be easy? Not necessarily. However, important Wii U ports will differ in performance from their originals, no matter how much you say "the second screen stuff was minimal at best". Xenoblade Chronicles X had an off-TV play mode, fair enough. Mario Maker was primarily played on the Gamepad because of touch controls. Splatoon had a map on the second screen that was constantly updating while you were in-match and allowed interaction. You selected and painted cards on the second screen, not the first, in Color Splash. Those elements will be removed in their Switch iterations, and while that might be "easy" to get rid of, it will still need to be gotten rid of.

I understand your definition of "port-ready"- the game will make its way to Switch because it's finished, the architecture will likely support it, and it will take fewer resources to do so than actually developing a new game. Yes. This makes sense. Just as you don't understand what I meant when I disagreed. I hope we have both clarified our points of view, and although our definitions are different, I don't think that either of them are particularly valid, because you think a port would be easy if Nintendo used a mobile app to circumvent the issues of taking away the Gamepad's second screen interaction and functionality, while I think of a port as "a 1-1 transfer of mechanics and controls to a new system."
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Switch Rumors and Speculation Thread (Mighty Switch Force Edition)
« Reply #2687 on: December 04, 2016, 11:30:45 PM »
So, when writing code, making the second screen is similar to writing 4 player splitscreen code. Dropping all second screen code and reworking it to be more traditional is not too hard. Its not like writing ai code. It'd be like cutting features with an axe. Many games have off screen play mode, which uses one screen.
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Offline Evan_B

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Re: Switch Rumors and Speculation Thread (Mighty Switch Force Edition)
« Reply #2688 on: December 05, 2016, 09:15:55 AM »
Many do, and that's why they'll likely be easy ports to Switch. Some don't, and they'll require rethinking or redesign in order to work on the system. Those aren't port ready, and they likely won't get on Switch.
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Offline supermario2k

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Re: Switch Rumors and Speculation Thread (Mighty Switch Force Edition)
« Reply #2689 on: December 05, 2016, 09:34:15 AM »
A side not on Wii U ports, since that appears to be where the discussion is heading atm.

First there is already precedent, at least 2 Wii U exclusives have already been ported to PS4 that relied on Wii U features on Wii U but had those features removed, Rayman and ZomieU. It is not beyond the realm of possibilities that the games on Wii U that would benefit from being ported could go through a similar process. Everything else just needs a brand new game in the series.

So something like Nintendo Land could be ported where they either remove any of the functionality that is dependent on Wii U tech missing from the Switch, or they could just make a brand new Nintendo Land Switch that creates the same experience but uses all of the features of the Switch.

Everything else will get a sequel and so that reduces the need to cater to the niche market of Wii U owners that might re-buy Super Mario 3D World, which I imagine would be easy to port minus Wii U specific features anyways. So I am really not seeing an issue with porting games from Wii U to the switch. Also as stated, EVERYONE has a cell phone and most people have a tablet, there is a method of providing a second screen right there.

They could go a step further and let you sync the Switch with your existing DS/3DS but I imagine that is something they won't do.


Offline Evan_B

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Re: Switch Rumors and Speculation Thread (Mighty Switch Force Edition)
« Reply #2690 on: December 05, 2016, 12:24:30 PM »
What is this "everyone has phones" mentality you guys keep pushing? For the oddly specific reveal trailer demographic, AKA millennials with apartments they can't afford, this might be the case.

I'll stop arguing, though, because I am in the wrong. As usual.
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Offline Soren

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Re: Switch Rumors and Speculation Thread (Mighty Switch Force Edition)
« Reply #2691 on: December 05, 2016, 01:28:43 PM »
I mean, I'm sure there are more people who own phones but don't own video game consoles than the opposite.

EDIT: At least some concrete numbers
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2999631/phones/pew-survey-shows-68-percent-of-americans-now-own-a-smartphone.html

Quote
According to the survey, 68 percent of adults in the United States currently own a smartphone, up from 35 percent four years ago. Meanwhile, 45 percent own some form of tablet, up from three percent in 2010.

Quote
Additionally, the survey shows the game console ownership rate remained around 40 percent since 2009, while the percentage of those who own a dedicated portable gaming device (like the Nintendo 3DS) dropped from 18 percent in 2009 to 14 percent today.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2016, 01:31:03 PM by Soren »
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Offline supermario2k

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Re: Switch Rumors and Speculation Thread (Mighty Switch Force Edition)
« Reply #2692 on: December 05, 2016, 01:58:02 PM »
What is this "everyone has phones" mentality you guys keep pushing? For the oddly specific reveal trailer demographic, AKA millennials with apartments they can't afford, this might be the case.

I'll stop arguing, though, because I am in the wrong. As usual.

I was trying to be optimistic but I basically argued what you said, but made the opposite point. Ha, words are funny.

As far as Wii U games are concerned, Nintendo could very well take the aptly appropriate view of why bother they only sold 13 million of them and even fewer games, I mean based on sales numbers alone Nintendo could just decide porting Wii U games to Switch is a waste of their resources and not chase after that small sub-set of the userbase that cares.


I loved the Game Cube, we all loved the Game Cube and yet it's sales figures surely are the primary justification for why Game Cube games do not get ported to Virtual Console when Wii games do, because more people owned a Wii than a Game Cube. I am nearly 90 percent certain that at this point Nintendo would rather pretend Wii U never existed and I am 75 percent certain they will actually make a strong effort to make it go away once Switch is out, but they will love to remind people they had fun playing Wii you can bet your ass of that.

Offline Lemonade

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Re: Switch Rumors and Speculation Thread (Mighty Switch Force Edition)
« Reply #2693 on: December 05, 2016, 04:01:19 PM »
I think its more likely that the controller is more why there is no Gamecube VC. Unusual button placement and analogue triggers, it just wouldnt work very well on the Gamepad.
Im sure Nintendo would love to sell us Luigi's Mansion, Mario Sunshine and Mario Kart DD again.

Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: Switch Rumors and Speculation Thread (Mighty Switch Force Edition)
« Reply #2694 on: December 05, 2016, 06:13:10 PM »
I hope Nintendo sells a Gamecube Classics collection for Switch with a Gamecube style joycons. 

I don't see why they couldn't.  If you just released the games that really NEEDED the analog Triggers to play correctly, or really needed the correct button placement. 

Offline nickmitch

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Re: Switch Rumors and Speculation Thread (Mighty Switch Force Edition)
« Reply #2695 on: December 05, 2016, 06:20:28 PM »
I think Nintendo might be shying away from putting out so many accessories.  I also think the reason there was no GC on the VC was either due to the file sizes not being manageable or Nintendo wanting to save the library for HD ports.  They did Zelda twice out of desperation, but that isn't to say other titles weren't on the table.  With how much of the PS4 library is HD Remakes and Remasters, I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo was eyeing the GC library for potential ports.  Especially for games that maybe never made it out west like Doshin the Giant.
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Offline MagicCow64

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Re: Switch Rumors and Speculation Thread (Mighty Switch Force Edition)
« Reply #2696 on: December 05, 2016, 06:29:39 PM »
Yeah, I think additional joycons are the best bet for GC re-releases, and would also conveniently cater to Smash Bros. Cube controller die-hards (myself among them) without needing the somewhat clunky adapter.

And I do think the Gamecube controllers are a legitimate emulation problem. I might be stepping out of bounds here, but last year a friend was moving and gave me a box of his old GC stuff and a bunch of games. I was excited to play melee again as well as stuff I'd never tried, like Star Fox Assault, F-Zero GX, and Wave Race: Blue Storm. It turns out the lag was so bad I couldn't play them on my modern TV. But I really wanted to give Star Fox a shot and owned a disc, so I downloaded Dolphin and the rom. It turns out the game is functionally unplayable with a standard 360 pad due to those triggers. I'd imagine Mario Sunshine would be similarly problematic, as would other games. To release the games via VC they'd have to screw with the innards in a way they clearly don't want to.

Note how there was no problem with Wii games on the WiiU VC with bigger file sizes. They hacked the DS together for it, but they had the advantage of a large single-touch resistive screen on the Gamepad.

As for WiiU ports, it's again perhaps not as easy as you might think for games that use the second screen heavily. That Gamepad streaming is proprietary low-latency tech, and I doubt Nintendo could get a second-screen experience going with tablets or smart phones that they would deem satisfactory.

Offline Agent-X-

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Re: Switch Rumors and Speculation Thread (Mighty Switch Force Edition)
« Reply #2697 on: December 05, 2016, 07:21:15 PM »
I think its more likely that the controller is more why there is no Gamecube VC. Unusual button placement and analogue triggers, it just wouldnt work very well on the Gamepad.
Im sure Nintendo would love to sell us Luigi's Mansion, Mario Sunshine and Mario Kart DD again.


So you don't think the N64 button layout is more exotic than the GCN?


I get that the button placement on the right side was a little offset, but it doesn't strike me as being something that would prevent me from playing a game. Look at Wind Waker: that plays just fine.

Offline supermario2k

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Re: Switch Rumors and Speculation Thread (Mighty Switch Force Edition)
« Reply #2698 on: December 05, 2016, 08:00:28 PM »
I think Nintendo might be shying away from putting out so many accessories.  I also think the reason there was no GC on the VC was either due to the file sizes not being manageable or Nintendo wanting to save the library for HD ports.  They did Zelda twice out of desperation, but that isn't to say other titles weren't on the table.  With how much of the PS4 library is HD Remakes and Remasters, I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo was eyeing the GC library for potential ports.  Especially for games that maybe never made it out west like Doshin the Giant.


But the Wii U had the Pro Controller so that debunks the person who said the Game Pad was the cause, and Wii games are larger than Game Cube games and there are dozens of those so that debunks the large file sizes.

As for HD Remasters, they did 2, they didn't exactly light sales charts on fire.

Offline Lemonade

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Re: Switch Rumors and Speculation Thread (Mighty Switch Force Edition)
« Reply #2699 on: December 05, 2016, 11:21:27 PM »
Look at Wind Waker: that plays just fine.

Thats a remake with new controls, so yes it does. But I think VC games with gamecube button icons might get slightly confusing and awkward. Definitely not unplayable though.