Author Topic: Switchmas Eve Rumors and Speculations Thread  (Read 476609 times)

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Offline Soren

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Switchmas Eve Rumors and Speculations Thread
« on: June 28, 2015, 08:46:35 AM »
Updated to encompass all news and speculation regarding the NX.

This thread originally started out as a discussion on NX and third parties, the original post is below.

Via Fortune:
https://fortune.com/2015/06/23/shigeru-miyamoto-wii-u/

Quote
The problem for Nintendo is the NX’s launch is at least a year away—likely more, as the company reportedly just started talking about it with third party partners at this year’s E3. (The reception, say insiders, was positive.) That means the company has to rely on the Wii U a little while longer. And while many gamers may have chosen to focus instead on console offerings from Microsoft and Sony, Miyamoto says he regrets the system will likely never live up to its full potential.

Unfortunately there's not much else in the form of details. Is this just a pitch of what Nintendo is doing or is this the start of a collaborative process with 3rd parties? Was 3rd party response positive in the form of them being able to pitch back ideas about specs or functions, or was this just more of the same one-sided communication by Nintendo?

There needs to be more communication.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 07:54:28 AM by Soren »
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Offline TOPHATANT123

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2015, 09:02:43 AM »
Do we know for a fact that this video is fake? https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=bChBid9pHsE The concept is dumb as hell but it would fall in line with what they said about showing it off to select 3rd parties and having a positive reception. Has anyone been able to trace that Bill Trinen sound clip? If not I think the NX has already leaked right under our noses.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2015, 09:08:36 AM by TOPHATANT123 »

Offline Evan_B

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2015, 09:15:38 AM »
That video is so blatantly fake it's funny.

First of all, the features it showed off are simply not possible. Wii U games on the go? On a console that thin? Not likely. The swivel screen is also not likely either.

This topic existing after one news article about the NX with little-to-no hard facts is also pointless. There's nothing to discuss about the NX.
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Offline Triforce Hermit

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2015, 09:20:41 AM »
Wasn't the third party reaction to the Wii U positive as well?
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Offline pokepal148

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2015, 09:21:08 AM »
BUT POINTLESS SPECULATION IS WHAT MAKES NINTENDO FANSITES GO ROUND even if most of us are just jaded, snarky, assholes
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Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2015, 11:50:08 AM »
That video is so blatantly fake it's funny.

First of all, the features it showed off are simply not possible. Wii U games on the go? On a console that thin? Not likely. The swivel screen is also not likely either.

This topic existing after one news article about the NX with little-to-no hard facts is also pointless. There's nothing to discuss about the NX.

I agree that the video is completely fake - but Wii U games on a system that size? Totally possible, even right now. Battery life would be a question in that size of a system. But anyway, look at the Nvidia SHIELD Android TV. It's more powerful than the Wii U, and it's barely larger than a Blu-Ray case - and that's with a 2.75" x 4" HDD inside, microSD slot, 2 USB 3.0 ports, MicroUSB, power adapter port, ethernet port, and HDMI port.

Offline Evan_B

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2015, 12:08:16 PM »
That controller is a handheld. It needs a battery of its own. It looks insanely thin.

I'm not talking about a console, here.
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2015, 01:31:20 PM »
Wasn't the third party reaction to the Wii U positive as well?

That's exactly what I was thinking.  I think they said the same for Wii as well, but we still ended up with well, the Wii lineup.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2015, 02:37:10 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUKcSiAPJoQ

Well hope they get unreal engine 4 to run on NX. Obviously you would want the environment to be more Mario, but this is pretty cool looking.
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Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2015, 04:15:59 PM »
You know I never thought a realistic Mario game would work, but that changed my mind. For the most part he doesn't look all that out of place in the video.

Offline Soren

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2015, 07:04:02 PM »
This topic existing after one news article about the NX with little-to-no hard facts is also pointless. There's nothing to discuss about the NX.

When's the last time hard facts stopped a thread from existing? I'm pretty sure we can post blatant speculation here safe in the knowledge that we can parse it out. Also, given the state of Nintendo and 3rd parties currently, there will be plenty to discuss about the subject as development on the NX starts to bubble up.

Well hope they get unreal engine 4 to run on NX.

Unreal 4 can run on Wii U. Armature's port of Bloodstained will be the first UE4 game on Wii U and Epic always said anyone was welcome to ship an UE4 game on Wii U even if they weren't officially supporting it.

Wasn't the third party reaction to the Wii U positive as well?

Yup, I really don't want a repeat of this (skip to 18:30 if the video doesn't take you there immediately). Knowing what we now know of how Nintendo treated these guys and how they still kinda wanted to buy in to what was being sold, Nintendo now has to do way more to win everyone back. I really they don't just take these "positive" receptions with them back to Kyoto and that's it. I really want to know there's a open dialogue back and forth throughout NX's development.
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2015, 07:46:20 PM »

Yup, I really don't want a repeat of this (skip to 18:30 if the video doesn't take you there immediately).

LOL: "We couldn't me more excited to be able to bring the power of EA Sports to Nintendo's new console."

I guess the enthusiasm had nowhere to go but down.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2015, 07:59:03 PM »
Nintendo will never have third parties again.  They realized the big Elephant in the room.  It is not the Console makers that are in control, it is the third parties.  They can drive the boat and force the issue.

If your console isn't thought to be worth porting the game over for, then it won't be ported...and honestly, 3rd parties realize true gamers have one or two systems...so they only truly need to support 2 consoles to reach the highest potential buyers.  The marginal increase in sales from supporting 2 systems to 3 systems is probably not worth it...unless the porting process is extremely easy and cheap. 

This is a reason why Nintendo needs to pull its resources and just be branded as a single console experience.  Portable games and console games together.  Do not split talent creating games for two separate systems but realize that releasing more games throughout the year for a single system will attract the most attention and audience. 

If Nintendo could realize the same number of 3DS and Nintendo Wii U games a year, but all that output is for a single system, then 3rd parties are less of a problem.  People would buy Nintendo consoles for the reason Nintendo truly wants them to buy Nintendo consoles to buy Nintendo games. 

Nintendo can never rely on 3rd parties again.  They are never coming back.  Period.

Offline Evan_B

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2015, 09:29:41 PM »
That's my mindset, essentially. Nintendo struggles with software droughts on their handhelds and their home consoles- it's just an unfortunate truth of splitting resources. Putting them all under the same roof would help with that issue and cause Nintendo to think of less iterative experiences.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2015, 09:54:09 PM »

Well hope they get unreal engine 4 to run on NX.

Unreal 4 can run on Wii U. Armature's port of Bloodstained will be the first UE4 game on Wii U and Epic always said anyone was welcome to ship an UE4 game on Wii U even if they weren't officially supporting it.

I don't think Bloodstained would crash the Wii U though. I think most all the other lighting and shader nonsense would crash it. They could probably move it on over to wii or gamecube(i kid) if they scaled the engine down enough for 2d.
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Offline Enner

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2015, 02:19:26 AM »
“For us, the next step is to think about what is going to be that element that is really going to catch the attention of a large number of players again and get them excited,” says Takahasi. “We’re constantly thinking about this idea from the perspective of the players and the needs of the players in terms of what can we can do with our ability and our technology to capture that excitement and passion.”

I'm singling out this quote because on the surface it is all well and good. But then you start asking question such as what players do they exactly have in mind, what is their perspective of the players they have in mind, what are Nintendo's limits in its abilities and technology, etc.

This dovetails nicely with:
Yup, I really don't want a repeat of this (skip to 18:30 if the video doesn't take you there immediately).

I hope I'm not too dire or pessimistic in saying that company men and women will say sweet nothings to each other and to us all day and night. Their actions and results can and are very different things. A part of me believes that the third parties in that video are genuine in their enthusiasm for the prospects of the Wii U; that the Wii U was a viable platform for third parties until it wasn't.

The NX isn't real yet, and all we have is (cheap) talk of hopes, fears, rumors, and speculations from anyone and everyone. It should be a fun couple of years as long as we keep that in mind.

Offline lolmonade

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2015, 05:39:41 AM »
Don't believe a word that's being said/written about 3rd party support interest.  That's a vague statement, number one, so we could be talking about the same slate of 3rd party support they've had for Wii U in being interested (Platinum, Sega, Ubisoft).  Number two - it's the same thing that was said of the Wii U before it fell flat, and given how 3rd parties have continued up to this point to support Xbox 360/PS3 with downports, the decision to not support Wii U clearly wasn't due to them not being capable to.
 
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Offline Evan_B

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2015, 06:14:31 AM »
This is primarily why I believe the NX will be a 2016 reveal, 2017 release. They need to support the latest "Nintendo machine" as much as possible before they ditch it, which would leave the (small) Wii U fanbase bitter and unresponsive towards their next console- that is, if it is a new home console. If it's a handheld, they can be a bit more lenient, even though the New Nintendo 3DS community is hurting for exclusive games, in retrospect.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2015, 02:01:01 PM »
Positive things were said by third parties prior to the Wii U launch and that makes sense.  Any third party with a game coming out naturally wants you to buy it.  EA and Ubisoft wanted the Wii U to be somewhat successful or the games they released on it wouldn't make any money.  They just didn't have any really strong investment in it.  EA in particular put in a very token effort.  They hoped it sold well enough for their games to be successful but they were cautious enough in their investment that it wouldn't bite them in the ass if the Wii U flopped.

If third parties think they can make money off a Nintendo console they'll support it.  But they don't give a **** either way.  If the NX can make them a buck, great, but they're not going to jump in with both feet and risk the possibility of failure.  Whether or not the NX succeeds is on Nintendo alone.  The only way a third party is going to take on any responsibility for the system's success is if Nintendo takes on the risk.

So Nintendo can show third parties it but that doesn't mean the third party support will improve.  These companies may just take the approach that if it isn't too much trouble they might port games if they stand to make a buck off it.  Most likely they'll probably consider supporting it if it sells well, which it of course won't if the third party support is too sparse at the beginning.

Nintendo needs to make it easy to bring a game to their system (so no underpowered specs, unfamiliar architecture or unhelpful development tools) and they probably need moneyhats.  After the Wii U I don't see anyone supporting the NX until the userbase is a good size and the userbase won't achieve that size if there are too few games.  Early on Nintendo is going to have to take on that financial risk.  Either that or somehow bust out a mega killer app that sells the console on its own.  Personally I think a proper console Pokémon RPG would be the best bet.  And of course if that somehow happens Nintendo needs hardware that is actually compatible for multiplatform development.  The Wii's large userbase did jack **** for third party support.

Though there is a big part of me that has serious doubts.  Even if Nintendo has learned from their mistakes and do everything right will the market give them a chance after a flop like the Wii U?  In particular with the third party support if I don't see it at launch I'm going to assume it won't come at all.

Offline ThePerm

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2015, 02:28:32 PM »
Kinda weird third parties wont jump in feet first for Nintendo, but they'll do the same for Sony and Microsoft. Microsoft isn't doing nearly as well as Sony, Sony last generation wasn't doing nearly as well as Nintendo. Support is what actually makes or breaks a console, not graphics, not hardware, not even market share(the only logical thing that should matter).
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2015, 02:36:04 PM »
Kinda weird third parties wont jump in feet first for Nintendo, but they'll do the same for Sony and Microsoft. Microsoft isn't doing nearly as well as Sony, Sony last generation wasn't doing nearly as well as Nintendo. Support is what actually makes or breaks a console, not graphics, not hardware, not even market share(the only logical thing that should matter).

The difference is third party games sell on those platforms, and they don't on Nintendo's. Regardless of how much Nintendo improves their relationship with third parties, they need to find a way to change that if they want them to really stick around.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2015, 02:54:41 PM »
maybe if they don't release the games extra late(watchdogs), or change the gameplay by removing jumping(dead rising)....or make that one exclusive so boring that it doesnt have legs to be a continued purchase(zombiu), or release a game out of sequential order when they should have made a trilogy pack(mass effect)
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2015, 03:32:40 PM »
maybe if they don't release the games extra late(watchdogs), or change the gameplay by removing jumping(dead rising)....or make that one exclusive so boring that it doesnt have legs to be a continued purchase(zombiu), or release a game out of sequential order when they should have made a trilogy pack(mass effect)

I agree.  I think the idea that third party games don't sell on Nintendo consoles is flawed but nonetheless that is the stereotype and Nintendo needs to fight against it.  It's kind of like back when Nintendo was "kiddy" WE knew better but Nintendo was not able to convince others of that.

Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2015, 05:51:54 PM »
The big problem I can't solve for the 3rd parties is the fact that eventually the number of new customers they can actually rich with a port becomes quite small.  If the Xbox One and PS4 have your game and both systems have a user base of around 2 million + users each.  Adding a third system that has 2 million users will not earn you 2 million more sales.  In fact you have to think about the demographics and see how many of those 2 million users could buy the game in another form be it Xbox One, PS4 or PC...because they might own one more more of those systems.  Then you have to think about the demographics of each particular system market.  Nintendo has a very special audience and market, they are gamers, but if they are hardcore gamers they most likely have another system.  If they are Nintendo fans only, your game may or may not appeal to them.  If it does it is worth the effort to port the game over...if it won't it isn't worth the effort. 

Porting games can be expensive and gamers do not like lazy ports, specially if the console you are porting to has unique feature they want to use.  This is why I think the power has left the hands of the console makers and are in the hands of the 3rd parties...they are only looking out for themselves, and supporting a larger number of systems does not make financial sense unless that port is quick and easy, and guaranteed profit.

Offline Luigi Dude

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2015, 06:11:27 PM »
The problem is third parties basically expect Nintendo to give jump through hoops like Microsoft and Sony do.  Microsoft and Sony lost billions last gen in part, because third parties wanted these insanely powerful consoles that both companies had to sell at a huge loss.  Hell even after many third parties either closed or have reduced in size since last gen because of these high cost they wanted in the first place, they still want more this gen.

This is why I don't expect any major third party support to ever hit a Nintendo home console until we get another industry crash that forces third parties to rethink the way they do business.  They want Nintendo to be willing to take huge losses just to show they care about them, which Nintendo isn't going to do.  The Wii U might have lost Nintendo some money but it pales in comparison to what Microsoft and Sony lost keeping third parties happy last gen.  This is why even after the Wii U, Nintendo has no real reason to really make a major change in their third party relationships when many of these third parties aren't the most profit friendly friends to have.
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