Author Topic: Switchmas Eve Rumors and Speculations Thread  (Read 473670 times)

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Offline Soren

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2015, 07:19:05 PM »
The problem is third parties basically expect Nintendo to give jump through hoops like Microsoft and Sony do. 


I think they'd settle for the decent stuff. You know, like not having to wait over 2 weeks for a game-of-telephone-type answer to their dev kit questions. Or actual documentation. Not having to almost reverse engineer the console to their games running on them.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2015, 07:52:29 PM »
The problem is third parties basically expect Nintendo to give jump through hoops like Microsoft and Sony do. 


I think they'd settle for the decent stuff. You know, like not having to wait over 2 weeks for a game-of-telephone-type answer to their dev kit questions. Or actual documentation. Not having to almost reverse engineer the console to their games running on them.

Or, you know, Nintendo actually taking their input on the new console before they make it, rather than just make something that suits Nintendo's needs alone & then expecting 3rd parties to just support it.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2015, 08:52:07 PM »
Money hatting 3rd party support is kinda foolish in my opinion.  You get a timed exclusive or a port with extra features.  Instead, Nintendo is doing something I think is better.  Allowing 3rd parties to make Nintendo games.  This is basically money hatting a 3rd party game that WILL be a true exclusive, and keeps your teams open to make different games. 

If Nintendo could have one single system not a portable and console, and consolidate their teams and release a new game almost every month of the year...they wouldn't really need 3rd party support.  If I could get 12 great games a year...or even 10 great games from Nintendo a year...heck...even 8 great games a year, that would be enough to support the purchase of a Nintendo console. 

Offline Soren

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2015, 09:10:06 PM »
If Nintendo could have one single system not a portable and console, and consolidate their teams and release a new game almost every month of the year...they wouldn't really need 3rd party support.  If I could get 12 great games a year...or even 10 great games from Nintendo a year...heck...even 8 great games a year, that would be enough to support the purchase of a Nintendo console.


That is totally unrealistic, first because Nintendo will still release a console and a handheld follow-up, and second because no single company can fulfill the software demands for a piece of hardware. Unless you like more games like Animal Crossing Amiibo Designer and lukewarm updated Mario Sports Game.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2015, 11:07:03 PM »

    Wii Fit U
    Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze
    Mario Kart 8
    Wii Sports Club
    Hyrule Warriors (Published by Nintendo outside of Japan)
    Just Dance Wii U (Japan only)
    Bayonetta 2
    Bayonetta
    Super Smash Bros. for Wii U
    Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker
    Fatal Frame: Maiden of Black Water
    NES Remix Pack

    Yoshi's New Island
    Inazuma Eleven 3: Team Ogre Attacks! (Published by Nintendo in Europe only)
    Professor Layton vs. Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney (Published by Nintendo outside of Japan)
    Disney Magical World (Published by Nintendo outside of Japan)
    Kirby: Triple Deluxe
    Mario Golf: World Tour
    Tomodachi Life
    Wagamama Fashion: Girls Mode Yokubari Sengen! Tokimeki Up! (Japan only)
    Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS
    Pokémon Art Academy
    Fantasy Life (Published by Nintendo outside of Japan)
    Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire
    Ultimate NES Remix

These are the 2014 releases from Nintendo that were retail releases for the 3DS and Nintendo Wii.  Not all these games were developed in-house, but they were published by Nintendo.

I did add a big IF, Nintendo would make only one system...which is the whole point I was discussing.  Nintendo should look at a means to develop one system that could be both a portable and console.  I don't know what that would look like...either a hybrid system, or just two systems that are close enough together that every game can be played on both...but the point is IF Nintendo was able to do that...they would have a compelling video system with enough exclusives to warrant a purchase and attention from the industry.

Am I saying every gamers needs and every type/style/genre of game could be created.  Nope.  I am just saying if Nintendo was able to get there act together and release a console with compelling new monthly content that the industry would look at Nintendo seriously again.

Offline Ian Sane

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #30 on: June 30, 2015, 10:41:23 AM »
Exclusives don't matter anymore.  The Wii U has probably the best list of exclusives by a mile and that is doing jack **** in selling it.  What people want is the games they want to play being available on their console of choice.  So Nintendo can get Bayonetta 2?  Whoop dee do.  So that's one game vs. a good 20 or so titles of comparable quality that literally everyone else but Nintendo gets.  The Wii U has anti-exclusives - games that are only NOT on the Wii U.  For Sony and MS the exclusives are just to tip the scales one way or another.  Nintendo is treating this like the NES years where almost every game is exclusive, except they're stuck playing the Sega Master System role this time.

This idea that Nintendo can't afford to cater to every demand of third parties would have more weight if Nintendo came across as doing all they feasibly can.  They don't.  They don't come across like they're trying at all.  That list of things Soren mentioned?  I work in software development.  I wouldn't work with a company like that in a million years.  That is outright unacceptable support.  You can't afford to waste time in development dealing with that kind of crap.  Inefficient development time eats up salary costs which are the biggest costs a company takes on.  If you have to **** around for an extra few weeks just to deal with Nintendo's nonsense that eats significantly into your profit margin even for a port, assuming a port is even feasible since Nintendo is going with last gen hardware.  Oh and what is the selling point for your port if the Nintendo version is clearly the worst one every time?

I would be thrilled if Nintendo just made a reasonable effort and the third party support would probably significantly improve just if they did that.  Pretty much ANY level of support is better than this.  We're like one step above having literally no support at all.  And this is a business.  If Nintendo can't afford to properly cater to third parties they also cannot afford a console that doesn't sell worth a **** because it gets like five games a year because Nintendo is the only company supporting it.  The market has certain demands and if Nintendo fails to meet them they don't sell their product and make no money.  Nintendo can make all the excuses they want but they still have to make a sellable product and regardless of how feasible this or that is if they don't make something that sells they're fucked.

Offline lolmonade

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2015, 01:06:43 PM »
Exclusives don't matter anymore.  The Wii U has probably the best list of exclusives by a mile and that is doing jack **** in selling it.  What people want is the games they want to play being available on their console of choice.  So Nintendo can get Bayonetta 2?  Whoop dee do.  So that's one game vs. a good 20 or so titles of comparable quality that literally everyone else but Nintendo gets.  The Wii U has anti-exclusives - games that are only NOT on the Wii U.  For Sony and MS the exclusives are just to tip the scales one way or another.  Nintendo is treating this like the NES years where almost every game is exclusive, except they're stuck playing the Sega Master System role this time.

This idea that Nintendo can't afford to cater to every demand of third parties would have more weight if Nintendo came across as doing all they feasibly can.  They don't.  They don't come across like they're trying at all.  That list of things Soren mentioned?  I work in software development.  I wouldn't work with a company like that in a million years.  That is outright unacceptable support.  You can't afford to waste time in development dealing with that kind of crap.  Inefficient development time eats up salary costs which are the biggest costs a company takes on.  If you have to **** around for an extra few weeks just to deal with Nintendo's nonsense that eats significantly into your profit margin even for a port, assuming a port is even feasible since Nintendo is going with last gen hardware.  Oh and what is the selling point for your port if the Nintendo version is clearly the worst one every time?

I would be thrilled if Nintendo just made a reasonable effort and the third party support would probably significantly improve just if they did that.  Pretty much ANY level of support is better than this.  We're like one step above having literally no support at all.  And this is a business.  If Nintendo can't afford to properly cater to third parties they also cannot afford a console that doesn't sell worth a **** because it gets like five games a year because Nintendo is the only company supporting it.  The market has certain demands and if Nintendo fails to meet them they don't sell their product and make no money.  Nintendo can make all the excuses they want but they still have to make a sellable product and regardless of how feasible this or that is if they don't make something that sells they're fucked.
You make some statements here that are more valid with corrections.  Please see below:
Quote
Exclusives don't aren't the only things that matter anymore.  The Wii U has probably the best list of exclusives by a mile and that is doing jack **** in selling it to anyone other than Nintendo fans.

Quote
This idea that Nintendo can't afford to cater to every demand of third parties would have more weight if Nintendo came across as doing all they feasibly can to the point of burning cash without any feasible way to get a return on investment.  They don't.  They don't come across like they're trying at all to offer partnerships to developers with no interest in sending out shoddy ports to die..

Quote
If you have to **** around for an extra few weeks just to deal with Nintendo's nonsense that eats significantly into your profit margin even for a port, assuming a port is even feasible since Nintendo is going with last gen hardware despite most 3rd party games up until recently also having ports done for PS3/Xbox 360.

I get we're all here to discuss a company/game we love, and part of that includes sometimes playing armchair CEO, but the 3rd party problem for Nintendo is one years in the making, and it's always easier to burn bridges than to build them.  Frankly, I don't see how this can be perceived as an easy or clear route to fixing it.  Nintendo can't afford to bribe help finance every 3rd party game that goes to other consoles.  Even with Wii at the height of popularity, it was clear that the market for Nintendo games are simply different than those who buy-in Sony/MSFT systems.
 
Whatever the solution is for Nintendo's 3rd party problems, it'll have to be multi-pronged, multi-year, and costly.  You don't just flip a swtich and suddenly everything is hunky dory.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #32 on: July 01, 2015, 03:13:21 PM »
Well, i think most of us are just disappointed Nintendo hasn't gotten much better at 3rd parties over the years, but at the same time it doesn't look like third parties are making much of an effort either. Nintendo does things to improve third party support every generation short of funding third party releases. I think Nintendo should spend a couple million to make a couple billion when it comes to third parties.

Another thing that annoys me is Nintendo has been around forever, but if you go into a gamestop, or if you work for Verizon and read the scripting its always Sony and Microsoft, as far as most people go Nintendo doesn't exist or is irrelevant.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #33 on: July 01, 2015, 03:17:51 PM »
Another thing that annoys me is Nintendo has been around forever, but if you go into a gamestop, or if you work for Verizon and read the scripting its always Sony and Microsoft, as far as most people go Nintendo doesn't exist or is irrelevant.

Right now, my local GameStop's Vita section is larger than their Wii U section, in terms of New Games. It's like 5 shelves of spine-facing Wii U used games, 1 shelf of cover-facing New Games.
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Offline lolmonade

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #34 on: July 01, 2015, 04:07:22 PM »
Another thing that annoys me is Nintendo has been around forever, but if you go into a gamestop, or if you work for Verizon and read the scripting its always Sony and Microsoft, as far as most people go Nintendo doesn't exist or is irrelevant.

Right now, my local GameStop's Vita section is larger than their Wii U section, in terms of New Games. It's like 5 shelves of spine-facing Wii U used games, 1 shelf of cover-facing New Games.


My gamestop's Wii U is about your size, but the Vita is relegated to one of those tiny middle shelves where they usually store the funco pop bobble heads and other plastic garbage.
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Offline Evan_B

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #35 on: July 01, 2015, 08:33:03 PM »
The thing is, people hold third party titles on Nintendo platforms to the same standard that they hold first party games, and I think that developers fear that for sales reasons and critical reception. Obviously, they're performing against a so tired company that has made many great titles, and I think that people frown on games that don't offer the same level of polish. It's why Wayforward games sell well on Nintendo devices- despite the overall quality, they out out material that's polished from many aspects and have been accepted by fans in that sense.

I know the games I wanted to play the most on Nintendo consoles were titles that seemed comparable to Nintendo titles- Bayonetta, No More Heroes, Sonic Colors, Fluidity- things that you didn't feel like you could get on other consoles. Of course, some of those games are found elsewhere an garner cult followings, but I see Nintendo platforms as "cult" platforms more than any other. Especially considering their core fanbase is pretty much a cult itself. If you're like me, you look for what is different and appealing in a console rather than what's the same. Unfortunately, that mindset isn't profitable and it's clearly not what people what judging by the opinions I've seen here and elsewhere.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #36 on: July 01, 2015, 08:54:06 PM »
Do we know for a fact that this video is fake? https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=bChBid9pHsE

That's basically the system I designed a few years back. Now I have to find the thread where I posted all the schematics/drawings.

Offline ThePerm

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #37 on: July 01, 2015, 10:46:19 PM »
I was thinking the other day...what if there was no edge to the screen for a controller? I'd get rid of the edge of the screen. It would just look like joystick and d pad sticking out of the screen. Buttons would have color changing leds.
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Offline TOPHATANT123

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #38 on: July 02, 2015, 12:06:37 AM »
I was thinking the other day...what if there was no edge to the screen for a controller? I'd get rid of the edge of the screen. It would just look like joystick and d pad sticking out of the screen. Buttons would have color changing leds.
Wouldn't you just get the edges of the screen all fingerprinty and dirty from where you have to grip on?

Offline ThePerm

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #39 on: July 02, 2015, 01:10:35 AM »


Kinda like this. IT would make the physical size of the controller smaller, the screen bigger, but you would have effectively the same setup. Its would be the same thing as wii u, but higher resolution, possibly 3d, multi touch.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 01:13:12 AM by ThePerm »
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Offline Evan_B

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #40 on: July 02, 2015, 11:42:35 AM »
Ehhhhhh... for what purpose?
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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #41 on: July 04, 2015, 01:36:55 AM »
It would certainly look slick. Wasn't there some mention of screen with non-standard shapes in the recent Nintendo past?

Offline Shaymin

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #42 on: July 04, 2015, 05:57:49 AM »
Those were round screens, but I think the implication was they would be for QoL.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #43 on: July 04, 2015, 06:31:58 AM »
So, this story's making the rounds this morning, but apparently we now finally know what happened to Project H.A.M.M.E.R. on the Wii, and it seems to have had long-reaching implications for Nintendo's software development.

Suffice it to say, the story's pretty ugly, boiling down to the Western Developers getting shut out of creative decisions, leading to a game that had no direction and accusations of racism/nationalism against the Japanese project heads at NST.


The reason I bring this video up is that I wonder if a similar situation played out between EA & Nintendo in the lead-up to Wii U's release, leading to that complete & sudden split only a year after the "Unprecedented partnership" announcement.  Also, I wonder if this attitude is something that Western devs still see from Nintendo, and that's partially why Nintendo 3rd party support is how it is. If that's the case, can we possibly hope for better relationships going forward with NX?

Yeah, there's a lot of "If"s in there, but it's definitely food for thought.
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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #44 on: July 04, 2015, 08:24:14 AM »
The cancellation of Project HAMMER still makes me sad. Looking back, it did need another angle or hook though.


Back on topic, I think somebody needs to start a NX News & Rumors thread or upgrade this one to be more encompassing.

Offline rlse9

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #45 on: July 04, 2015, 10:23:27 AM »
Just watched that video and was going to post a link here.  That really makes Nintendo look like a complete trainwreck of a company to work with.

Offline Nile Boogie Returns

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Re: NX and Third Parties
« Reply #46 on: July 04, 2015, 10:57:58 AM »

Back on topic, I think somebody needs to start a NX News & Rumors thread or upgrade this one to be more encompassing.




I agree because The NX is starting to look  more and more like a Wii U Handheld with a Chromecast Dongle. Add those Sharp Boundless screens and its looking like we have a solid hypothesis of the future.

Offline Soren

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Offline Ceric

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There is a rumor going around that some of the media is taking up that the NX will be less powerful than the XBox One.  At this point even if its a handheld I would want it more powerful than the PS4.
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Offline Nile Boogie Returns

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At this point even if its a handheld I would want it more powerful than the PS4.


Is that even possible with todays Technology? The heat alone would fry an egg no doubt. And with a screen, you're talking $500 bare minimum.