Topic: The article that reveals Nintendo´s true nemesis

[Gamebasher]

I just visited the Nintendo fansite n-philes.com, and under their Editorials section found an article with the headline "Nintendo Fans Who Don't Care", an article which simply is so good that it made me instantly understand the core of the problem with lower than expected sales of the GCN hardware (-and games). Without saying anything more, I suggest that you guys race right over there on www.n-philes.com and read this important information. The guy who wrote it is to the point with what he says, so it´s worth reading!!!!!!!!

The more Nintendo fans who understand the message of that article, the better the chances for Nintendo in the next generation. No kidding. Read it!

Gamebasher.

[Marufy007]

i read that article your pointing to and i think its a good read too. whether its the main problem or not i cant say. i guess it wouldnt surprise me that some nintendo gamers could be "snobs" when it comes to other games. i can only buy so much though. if i named off every gamecube game i wanted to buy, id seriously have to leave college because id flunk out trying to play all those games and i wouldnt have money for books or laundry.

we just need a more diverse set of gamers on the gamecube. the problem with that though is to get those gamers you need the games that will appeal to them, but a lot of developers wont bring the games unless we have the people there to begin with.  

[Army_F_body]

Very true stuff, I found myself doing the very same with the N64.  However, it seems like a chicken and egg argument.  
 
I tend to see which port is best on which system, I own a PS2 as well, before I go and buy it.  Genrally GC ports seems to campare pretty poorly to their PS2 and XBox counterparts.  Maybe developers put less time into the GC ports because of declining sales or maybe declining sales are being caused by poor 3rd party game ports.  

A majority of games that are ported to multiple systems are designed to be handled by the least powerful system out there, generally the PS2.  So when ported to GC and XBox you are essentially getting a PS2 quality game on systems that can handle way more.  Every now and then I notice developers giving little extras to the XBox leaving GC fans out.  I remember the port of "Spiderman: the movie" having slightly beefed up graphics and sound as well as an extra villian to fight on the XBox while the 'cube got exactly what PS2 owners got.  

If you read Gamepro, I don't anymore because of this, you'll see games who receive average scores on PS2 and Gamcube due to "fun factor" or gameplay receive nearly perfect scores due to the graphical enhancements that the XBox can provide to ports.  People read stuff like that.  I can't afford to rent every game for both PS2 and GC to compare side by side to see which is better, so I rely on mags such as EGM to make decisions for me.  Like "Enter the Matrix," I went with GC because the reviews state all 3 games are identicle.  That being the case I went with GC, due to the better controller and faster load times generally asociated with the 'cube.  

I remember a day when ports where all handled sepparately by developers to ensure each one took full advantage of the system for which they were being devolped.  That way it was generally accepted that the SNES port would be better graphically and sound wise than the Genesis port due to the better hardware of the SNES, but little extras were thrown into the Genesis version to even it out and make all consumers happy.  I see 3rd party support to be very weak on the GC due to a lack of this, most 3rd party support these days, however, seem to go toward the XBox.  

If developers would adhere to the ethics they showed in the 16-bit days today, everyone would be happy, and a GC player could go out with confidence to purchase the hot new 3rd party game or port knowing they are getting the best possible product.  Instead they are conditioned to respond to first party titles because Nintendo products are the only ones showing a consitency for quality.  I, however, try to keep an open mind.  I really want Nintendo to succed, but I feel a lot of it does fall into the hands of the 3rd party devopers not just the overly conditioned gamers.

[Moonwatcher]

WHO FREEKIN CARES WHAT PLACE NINTENDO IS IN?!?!?

I don't.  So long as they keep making the games I like, I'll keep buying them.  According to this article I'm to blame for poor sales of third party games on the GC.  What a steaming crock that is.  If there is a good third party title on the GC, chances are I own it, problem is there are very few.  When Konami looks at the poor sales of thier awful Disney Sports games how can they possibly be surprised?  I love to play video games, but unfortunately I have limited amounts of time and money.  As a result I only buy the best games out there and more often than not, Nintendo's titles put all others to shame.  I am not going to buy a crappy game just to reassure 3rd parties that the GC is a viable platform.  Since when is it our duty as Nintendo fans to make Nintendo happy?  I thought it was the other way around!  He's right about one thing,  I don't care dammit!  In fact I wouldn't shed a single tear if 90% of the worthless 3rd party crud the GC is going to get was cancelled right this moment.  This article disgusts me.

[Scyth3r]

Haha, my thoughts exactly Moonwatcher.

Honestly, most third party games pale in greatness especially compared to Nintendo published games.   So I'm to blame because I don't buy these sub-par third party games?!  Uhhh right.   Sorry I have limited money, and I look to buy the best game regardless of where its from.  But hey, guess what... Nintendo happens to make the best games and third parties fail to reach that level of quality most often.   So sorry.  So you want me to buy some racing sim instead of Metroid Prime?   Some Disney party game over Zelda?  Hell no, that ain't going to happen and don't blame me for that.  I'm so sorry that Nintendo fans aren't idiots and go out buying massive copies of crud games and ports.   Waaaaaah.  

It's going to be a sad day if Nintendo dies off in the future, for creativity and quality will go down the drain. It sucks for Nintendo, that being so great they are essentially killing themself.   They would do wonders as a software publisher only, heck they would crush the competition easily.  But they know their fans, we're loyalists, we recognize their greatness.   We don't want em to go that way, it's just too sad.  The way I see it, Nintendo is dying, and the only reason they are still here and plan to be in the future is because for us, the faithful.   God bless them.    

[Michael8983]

I really don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. Sure, the fact that Nintendo fans only want Nintendo games may keep the Gamecube from selling as well as the PS2 but it has its share of benefits as well. The real money is in software sales after all. Sony may have sold a lot of PS2's but most of the console's best-selling games are made by third-party developers and all Sony really gets is royalty fees from them. When a Nintendo game sells millions of copies, all that money goes directly to Nintendo. That's why, despite it having a much smaller userbase, Nintendo made a MUCH bigger profit off the N64 than Sony made off the original Playstation.

As for the setbacks the Gamecube has faced, Nintendo has nothing but itself to blame for them.
The Gamecube entered the market over a year later than the PS2 and gave Sony ample time to dominate. With the Gamecube, Nintendo fixed many of the problems the N64 had but, unfortunately, repeated its biggest mistake and entered the race TOO DAMN LATE. If the Gamecube had launched against the PS2, many third-party developers may have jumped ship to it for its ease in development as the PS2 is notoriously difficult to develop for. But, by the time the Gamecube development kits were released, the PS2 had already sold millions and developers were already finished up their AAA system-selling second-generation titles for it.
Maybe the Gamecube's late arrival would have been ok if it had an amazing, innovative, flag-ship launch title that would take the world by storm, but instead it had Luigi's Mansion which was a fun game but not something to launch a console with. If not for Smash Bros Melee which thankfully arrived shortly after the launch, the console would probably only be doing half as well. Of course, shortly after launch came a SIX MONTH DROUGHT where Nintendo didn't release any first/second party games which convinced consumers it was the N64 all over again. That was followed by ED which was released in the dead of Summer when it had no chance of getting any attention. Then came Mario which, though very fun, was nothing we hadn't seen before. As long as it took for the Gamecube to get a true Mario title, people understandably expected MUCH more. By the time it was released, there were plenty of 3D platform games on the PS2 and people were getting bored with the genre. Mario was followed by the incredibly disappointing Starfox Adventures. Metroid Prime and Animal Crossing actually did live up to expectations but, by the time they were released, a ton of damage had already been done. A game Nintendo really should have had ready for the Gamecube's first year was Mario Kart which would have sold a ton of consoles. Mario Kart played a huge role in the early success of Nintendo's previous two consoles and it's just ridiculous that Nintendo didn't have the game ready much sooner. It would have also been very wise for Nintendo to have a Pokemon game ready for the Gamecube's first year as well. At the very least it could have done something to counter-attack the XBox's "free game" offer during the holiday season. I have no doubt the Gamecube could have beaten XBox over the holiday season if Nintendo had been more competitive.
If Nintendo had made better decisions, it could have easily met and greatly surpassed its sales expectations and could be beating the hell out of Sony right now, if not in hardware sales, then certainly in (console) profits.  

[The Matrixter]

Your right. If the Gamecube would've came out at the same time the Ps2 had, WITH Mario Kart and games as such, Nintendo would've beaten the s**t out of Ps2. The Ps2 might be leading, but Nintendo creates WAY better quality games than Sony ever can. Nintendo is dedicated to games only. Oh, and that reply that PS2 owners say that " Well, the PS2 has a DVD and CD plaback" crap, doesn't matter. Usually it is COMMON sense to have a DVD and especially a CD player in a common household. Since when have you ever seen a Nintendo console play any Cd's? Nintendo has the REAL experience needed to develop high quality games. Besides, wayyy back to the time for Donkey Kong, Sony was still developing cassettes and I don't think Microsoft even develop Windows yet. Nintendo has the experience and has made us Nintendo fans experience the best video games ever created. They even have a LEGENDARY designer, Shigeru Miyamoto to develop some of the best games. I think people should REALIZE this by now and buy Nintendo consoles. The Gamecube also has Progressive Scan, something that makes Gamecube games look like an Xbox game. The PS2 and the Xbox don't have this feature. So if Nintendo would've released it around the same time, It would leave the PS2 in the dust and the Xbox as a TV stand.

[DRJ]

If a third party release a Gamecube Only game that is excellent, Ill be the first one in line to buy it, but if they expect me to buy whatever crap the port to the Gamecube then...

Nintendo makes the best games. Their systems play games and only games. I dont need a game system to play DVDs, I have a fricken DVD player. I have a Gamecube to play games. If Nintendo keeps making games, Ill keep buying them forever, and I will buy whatever system they put out.

If every third party publisher stopped making games for Nintendo, who would really care. All the franchise games that Nintendo builds on, and all the new innovative games they have and will released are enough.

When I go looking for a game I will look for the "Only On Gamecube" notice. If it isnt there, I'm probably not gonna bother since the game will have been developed to play on PS2 and wont utilize the Gamecube totally. If its not exclusive then it better offer something great like Link in Soul Calibur II.

[Jedi Master Yoda]

I really agree with Moonwatcher, except:

"WHO FREEKIN CARES WHAT PLACE NINTENDO IS IN?!?!?" - Moonwatcher

I do. If Nintendo is left behind, they go out of business and we will be left without the games that beat the 3rd party games in the first place.

[mouse_clicker]

It's not that Nintendo fans don't care about 3rd party games, it's just that most of the 3rd party games that get released on the Gamecube SUCK. We buy GOOD 3rd party games- look at TimeSplitters 2, Resident Evil, or Super Monkey Ball. The problem is, 3rd parties don't take the time to make their games good so they WILL sell on the Gamecube because they know they can release it on the PS2 or XBox, both of which only have other crappy 3rd party games as competition rather than a superb team of 1st and 2nd parties, and the game will sell quite well, mainly because that's all owners of those consoles get. If 3rd parties would recognize that the reason their Cube titles don't sell is because their games are all shoddy ports of already shoddy games, I wouldn't get mad, but what really pisses me off is when Nintendo and Nintendo fans get blamed. It's not our fault we like good games.

[Nephilim]

iv got 17games and iv had a gc for just over 1year..yeah im a snob

fanboys dissing over fanboys is just lame, who cares if you own 1 game or 50games
I only had 7 gameboy games, when i was young, my parents didnt have enought for games, so we were snobs i guess

[Nintega]

We don't buy most 3rd party games because they aren't that good?  I mean that's not hard to comprehend.  Maybe it's time for 3rd party publisher to do a little reorganizing and change the way they develop games.  We're the consumer.  You have to please us and give us a reason why we should spend our money on your product.  Don't complain and play the blame game when it's your fault to begin with.  I'm sorry but there's too many fingers being pointed.  Show me a game worthy of playing and buying and I'll show you my support.  Wow, I can't believe it's that simple.

[Mario]

A quote from Satoru Iwata about being competitive and low GC sales,

Quote
"But then, that's what I enjoy," says Iwata, 43, a former game developer who joined Nintendo in 2000. "We need to feel a sense of crisis to bring out the best in us."

Nuff said!

[nitsu niflheim]

As far as I am concerned, Nintendo's "worse enemy" is Nintendo.  They need to stop under estimating the consumer and open their eyes.  

[Don'tHate742]

If Nintendo was really concerned about there third party sopport they would of done something that Microsoft has done and send the companies moneybags. But Nintendo is like us consumers, we don't put money into a game unless we see something that befenits us, right? Makes sense. Nintendo doesn't want to put money on crappy third party games, but the good third party games hell they'll spend as much as they have to (MMGS: TS, RE, sega games anyone?), becuase they see that it's worth it.

I like that point by I don't know, about how Nintendo has a bunch of good First and Second Party games, and third party games aren't up to what we now think is a good game. As for PS2 and Xbox, all they have is thrid party games.......see the difference. Its like comparing an apple to an orange, two different contexts.

ITS NOT OUR F*CKING FUALT we are not the escape goats. The problem leads right back to the source.

[Christberg]

The article brings up some interesting points, but when it comes down to it I actually buy more 3rd party GC stuff than 1st and second party (although I buy all those releases as well).  If anybody wants to check out my collection, it's right here.  I'd say it's pretty much been pared down to just the very, very best.  (Well, the GC stuff at any rate.)

The problem here is that I'm not going to waste my money on GARBAGE because I own all 3 systems.  Will I buy Soul Calibur 2?  You bet.  RS3?  ooooh yeah.  Viewtiful Joe?  HELL YES.

I buy GOOD games, not crap.  The problem these days is that the market has just plain gotten too damn large to keep up with, even on just the "weak third party" GC.  I don't have time for crappy games and you shouldn't waste your time on them either, especially when there's great quality titles that are almost always exclusive.

I often wonder if the market isn't on the verge of another crash, honestly.  There's too many unremarkable multiplatform games coming out and not enough users to support them adequately.  3D0, Acclaim, Midway... I wonder if they'll be around in a couple more years.

[GoldShadow1]

That article has utterly flawed logic.  People buy what they want to buy.  I'm not gonna buy some crappy cookie-cutter racing game just because Nintendo needs money.  When you spend $50, you are putting down an investment.

I buy games that sound good to me.  I buy games like Metroid Prime or Mario because they're good.  I buy games like Skies of Arcadia and Splinter Cell (neither of which I have actually bought, since I have no money... sniff) because they're good.  If third-party games want more sales on the GCN, they'll simply have to have better games.  Blaming the consumer for a company's losses is utterly stupid and nonsensical.  It's like opening a restaurant that exclusively serves fried dog, and then blaming the community around them for being afraid to broaden their tastes.  It makes no sense.

Consumers are selfish.  That's their job.  Companies have to adapt to consumers' tastes to make a profit, not the other way around.  Frankly, I don't care if games that I was never interested in get cancelled.  I don't have to care.  

[egman]

mouse_clicker summed up my thoughts nicely. I have to disagree with the author of this article because he does not take into account that 3rd party quality on the GC has been largely hit and miss. There are several 3rd party games that have done well mainly because they went the the extra mile to produce something worthwhile.

Onething that is hurting the GC that I don't think too many people are looking at is the number of people who own it as a their only console this gen. I suspect it has largely become a the second system for a lot of consumers, and when you combine that with ports that are late and shoddy, Nintendo is then put into a no win situation.

Another thing that hurts the GC and the other consoles to a lesser extent is the fact that we are getting an major influx of multi-platform titles. I bought my GC for exclusive titles that took advantage of the system's strengths, just as I did with the other consoles. What is the point of multi-platform titles when they are dumbed down to run on the weakest system or are built with middleware that keeps those games from reaching their full potential on a particular platform? Everyone wants to be EA, and that is an attitude that is hurting all consoles, but in particular the GC is being hit hard because of its 1st and 2nd party pedigree.

I've had enough of analysts and developers blaming Nintendo and GC userbase when I can clearly see flaws to the approach of 3rd parties on the Cube. The userbase is too small and picky to just shove something on the shelf and expect PS2 sales. I'm waiting for few more 3rd parties to figure this out, but there is so many people riding the Nintendo bash train these days that the challenge that was once a hill for Nintendo has slowly approached Mt. Everest proportions. The sad thing is, this challenge is being fueled by perception and assumption, rather than facts. I'm glad Nintendo is working real close with a few 3rd parties because right now the picture has become too clouded for some to realize that there are other reasons for poor 3rd parties sales that have little to  nothing to do with an "elitist" userbase or a console developer which gives it's own games top priority while leaving the crumbs for others to fight over.

[Armed]

Yup that editorial is the stupidest thing ever; they are saying consumers are suppose to buy every crappy game that they port from the Xbox or PS2.  If they made the ports as polished as RE1 now that would be different, but from the looks of most of the ported games it looks like they just wanted to sell it as quickly as possible, and expected it to do great.  This editorial is completely wrong about the consumers point of view, in fact they should just change that, and put 3rd parties that are so blind that they can't see why Nintendo consumers are not buying their games.  Hehehe i can't believe they blame that on us, don't they know the consumers are always right.

The only 3rd parties i like anyway are Namco, Konami, Capcom, and Square-Enix, and these are in good relations with Nintendo so the rest can just go away, and leave us alone with the quality games that we Nintendo consumers expect in a game.

[Infernal Monkey]

Quickly everybody! Ignore that Resident Evil Zero or Monkey Ball 2! Cancel that pre-order for F-Zero GX and Wario World! LETS ALL GO OUT AND SPEND OUR MONEY ON SPY HUNTER, MINORITY REPORT AND X-MEN: WR!

We don't buy enough sh*t games! Developers are angry because we actually have taste! They demand our money, or no more ported rubbish for us! OH NOES!!!!!1 ONE

-______-

[Moonwatcher]

Quote
Originally posted by: Jedi Master Yoda
I really agree with Moonwatcher, except:

"WHO FREEKIN CARES WHAT PLACE NINTENDO IS IN?!?!?" - Moonwatcher

I do. If Nintendo is left behind, they go out of business and we will be left without the games that beat the 3rd party games in the first place.

Ok, Ok, you got me.  I don't care so long as they stay profitable enough to remain in business.

[Ocarina Blue]

The only reason I bought a Cube is because Nintendo is making games for it. If 3rd party developers want their games to sell for Nintendo systems, they have to start making them somewhere around the same level as Nintendo ones, examples of good 3rd party games (that have sold well) are Resident Evil, Monkey Ball and (judging by the pre oreders/hype) Soul Caliber 2. I have counted about 12 games I would like to buy for the Cube, and it will be a while before I've finished buying them all.

[PIAC]

its not allways the game developers fault that games turn out crappy, their executives see games similar/their games sell well on PS2 and for some reason expect the same of all consoles, listen to the interveiw Billy had with Seamus Blackly (Xbawx creator) and youl kinda see where im coming from.
everyone in the world should realise management on almost any level has pretty much no idea what its doing

[BrianSLA]

Matrixer......

>> The Gamecube also has Progressive Scan, something that makes Gamecube games look like an Xbox game. The PS2 and the Xbox don't have this feature <<

Uh Nope! The Xbox supports and in fact the majority of games have progressive scan IN FACT ..... Xbox supports 1080i HDTV. If going by your name you bought " Enter the Matrix " it is a Xbox 1080i HDTV game too. In addition if you are going by audio..... Xbox has Dolby Digital.  

[Shar]

Yeah I have got to throw in my two cents as well. This article, although an entertaining read, focuses solely upon the existing Gamecube userbase. As others here have commented the author of this article blames us for not purchasing below par software. Well why doesnt he go and buy Universal Studios Theme Park Adventure! or some similar pointless game... if you can call it that. Although there is no doubt some level of truth to his argument... I for one will only purchase games that not only interest me but also are the cream of the crop since I do not have money to waste, that is my perogative as a consumer.

The author clearly disregards the fact that a multi-platform title on PS2 sells more than on either Gamecube of Xbox because the installed base is much larger. If we take a 3rd party multi-platform title and assume that 10% of existing users will purchase the game on each format then Gamecube and XBox will sell around 10% of 10 million each whilst PS2 sells 10% of 50 million!

There are many mistakes and flaws in Nintendo's Gamecube strategy but the root of the problem as I see it is that for one and a half years if someone wanted to buy the latest console they had no choice but to pick up a PS2. This in turn results in other people wanting the same console as their friends because they have seen what it can do as well as being able to borrow games.

This generation has already been won and lost but if Nintendo dont want to see a repeat lets see if they can make good on their promise about not giving the competition a head start.