Author Topic: Ouya  (Read 153580 times)

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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Ouya
« Reply #150 on: August 09, 2012, 01:24:51 PM »
I don't understand why there is so much outright hate for a product that isn't out yet. I hate iPhones, but it took actual hands-on experience (and a lot of it) to achieve that hatred.

I don't hate it. I really have no opinion of it personally. I'm just arguing that it's not going to be successful.

The mainstream market doesn't give a **** if it's open. It's irrelevant to the vast majority of users.

It matters to developers because it gives them more freedom to do what they want.

That must be why Linux has such an amazing and wide array of software and Android has so many more apps than iOS.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Ouya
« Reply #151 on: August 09, 2012, 01:40:59 PM »
I'm sure there will be a browser app, and that app will let you download anything.
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Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: Ouya
« Reply #152 on: August 09, 2012, 02:20:32 PM »
It's not necessarily you that I'm talking about, insanolord - but it does seem that you at least want it to fail, or don't want it to succeed.
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Ouya
« Reply #153 on: August 09, 2012, 03:14:56 PM »
That must be why Linux has such an amazing and wide array of software

If you were trying to be sarcastic you've failed, because Linux really does have a wide array of software to choose from. Now, if you are referring to games then you have a point because there isn't much in the way of proprietary games support, but in terms of office suites, web browsers, desktop environment, video editing software, image editing software, and so on Linux is not only covered, but covered several times over with multiple options to choose from. And you know what the best part is? Most of that software is 100% free.

Some of this free Linux software is also available on Windows and Mac, but not all of it is. With Windows and Mac most of the software isn't free and you have to pay for it. Linux is the better option for cheap skates, or poor people who can't afford to pay $500 on an office suit or whatever. Why do that when you can get something just about as good which costs absolutely nothing?

and Android has so many more apps than iOS.

I don't know if that's true or not, but if Brandogg is right about Android having 68.1% market share then its about as mainstream as it can get, and apparently has iOS beat. So if you want to talk mainstream, let's talk about Android because apparently it has the majority of the market share.... and if it is somehow lagging in terms of apps, I'm sure that will change soon enough.

The advantage iOS had is that it hit the market first, but Apple made it too damn expensive, and that's why its falling to the way side just like Mac did to PC. Android is the cheaper, more mainstream option. iOS is geared towards elitists who don't mind paying Apple's inflated prices. That's why iOS is no longer number 1 in market share.

It's not necessarily you that I'm talking about, insanolord - but it does seem that you at least want it to fail, or don't want it to succeed.

I think Insanolord has mentioned in the past that he is a fan of Apple, and there's nothing wrong with that, but I think this is why he doesn't want Ouya (or Android) to succeed. I understand that mentality, because I feel that way myself about stuff. I think everyone does to some extent. We all have our preferences.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 03:20:36 PM by Chozo Ghost »
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Ouya
« Reply #154 on: August 09, 2012, 03:23:28 PM »
It's not necessarily you that I'm talking about, insanolord - but it does seem that you at least want it to fail, or don't want it to succeed.

Want has nothing to do with it. I have no interest in it myself, but I also have nothing against it. I'm trying to look at it objectively and predict what's going to happen, and I think people are overblowing what this is going to be. Like you said, you happen to be in the niche for this thing, and I hope that works out for you, but I think people who believe the thing has any chance of success beyond that niche are fooling themselves.


@Chozo Ghost


Comparatively to Windows, or even OS X, Linux's software library is lacking. The openness of the platform hasn't attracted tons of developers beyond the niche Linux audience, which was my point. The fact that Android has three times the market share as iOS and still lags way behind in terms of apps even further illustrates the point.


Developers go where the money is, regardless of the openness of the platform. That's why iOS has more support than Android, that's why Windows and OS X have more support than Linux, and that's why the Ouya's openness isn't going to draw developers away from Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo/Steam.
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Ouya
« Reply #155 on: August 09, 2012, 03:31:14 PM »
Linux has a lot of developer support when it comes to free open source software. Where Linux is lacking is in the proprietary stuff of things like commercial games and so on. That's always been a problem. I think a good analogy can be made with Nintendo consoles and how Nintendo's 1st party software dominates, so 3rd are scared and reluctant to support it. Linux is kinda like that in a way, because its dominated by free and open software, so proprietary software developers are scared off.

Maybe that's true with Android to some extent as well?
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Ouya
« Reply #156 on: August 09, 2012, 03:57:04 PM »
Actually, at this point I would reccomend old people use Linux. Linux used to be this operating system that was totally difficult to use, but now thats changed a lot. The last time I installed Ubuntu it had everything I needed if I just wanted to do word processing and web browsing.

I do customer satisfaction surveys, the majority of the people I talk to are old. So, I just think they need to make a simple as **** computer specifically designed for old people. I need to court some engineer and programmer friends, for a project like that. Being that I am an artist I don't think about things in the typical linear fashion. I'm more interested in how people interact with products, but im not skilled enough technically to pull them off myself. I took programming and electronic engineering in High School, but that was 10 years ago...and in a totally different era.

I also kinda want to start a line of furniture



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« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 04:17:44 PM by ThePerm »
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Offline shingi_70

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Re: Ouya
« Reply #157 on: August 09, 2012, 04:51:31 PM »
Looks cool.

On Linux the software development isn't as polished as windows or Mac OS X and that's the problem.  Why use crape like Libreoffice when I can pay and use iwork or office and have all my work sync across the built in skydrive and icloud. Same goes for Gimlet overuse stuff like photoshop,pixelmator and apenture.

Though if I were to ever jump onto Linux I would probably just use chromioium and use tootle services with aneroid for my mobile needs.
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Ouya
« Reply #158 on: August 09, 2012, 05:05:00 PM »
I don't hate the device itself, I just don't believe it has a real purpose, niche or otherwise or a possibility of succeeding. It doesn't help that they basically offer you something offer you something too good to be true at all levels with marketing that is full of lies, half lies and not a sherd of reality. It might not be an outright scam, but full very over their heads well intentioned people, but their plan, what little of a plan they have is so full of holes, it's more holes than plan.

They have no funding outside of KS, no hardware partner, contradictory language, virtually no real commitment from any actual developers, almost no time and no clue. History is not on their side. Failed consoles and handhelds litter the sidewalk open, not open, didn't matter. Some had 10 to 50 times the resources to get to market with massive levels of institutional knowledge backed by massive teams and untold man hours. The Raspberry Pi took six years of extremely careful planning to get to market at the promised cost and capabilities with none of the absurdity that OUYA has.

In the end, yeah, I hate it, why? It's going to rob a lot of people one way or another and that's sad. If they had any real chance of succeeding or making sense, they would have some real investors instead of pulling a Ron Paul.
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Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: Ouya
« Reply #159 on: August 09, 2012, 05:15:27 PM »
Because nVidia isn't working directly with them or anything...
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Ouya
« Reply #160 on: August 09, 2012, 05:38:52 PM »
also, about phantom....the console didn't get made, but a popular keyboard came out of it. Which, you'll probably be able to use on Ouya
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Ouya
« Reply #161 on: August 09, 2012, 05:53:05 PM »
I know the Ouya can be done because its the same technology that already exists in tablets as we speak for $200, so why couldn't 8 or so months from now we could the same thing for $99? The price of technology goes down over time, and the Ouya has the advantage of not requiring a battery or a touchscreen, so that's two very expensive components that it won't have to deal with. So why can't it be done?

The comparison with the Phantom doesn't work, because the Phantom had much loftier goals of being a high end computer that could stream games way back in 2004 when such things weren't really feasible. The Ouya is not only feasible, but its already done and already exists in the form of millions of tablets. There's nothing lofty or ambitious about it. The goal of Ouya is simply to take what already is done with tablets, and make it a non-portable console at half the price. With no screen or battery, and with this not launching until next year I don't see why anyone would doubt this can be done.

The Ouya is to tablets what a car is to airplanes. If you can make an airplane, why doubt that a car is possible? A tablet is a more advanced thing to build than an immobile console which links up to a TV. Tablets exist and are mainstream in 2012, so why would a consolized form of the same exact thing be out of the question in 2013? This skepticism makes no sense.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 05:57:12 PM by Chozo Ghost »
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Ouya
« Reply #162 on: August 09, 2012, 05:59:40 PM »
also, we have to point out that this isn't 2004. Things have changed in a way that an upstart could be successful. The fact that the guys raised 8.5 million in 30 days says something.
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Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: Ouya
« Reply #163 on: August 09, 2012, 06:00:47 PM »
The people that are doubting that the Ouya will come to fruition are simply over-thinking the entire thing.
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Ouya
« Reply #164 on: August 09, 2012, 06:09:13 PM »
No they are not, like almost everything else about this, they are in "Discussion". If they were in discussion mid KS, that means they never had a prototype in the first place, which means no working hardware. Also hardware partner means someone willing to give them some level of preferential pricing that the big boys get. The Raspberry Pi had gotten a level of lower pricing because the people who worked on it had their own personal contacts back at the company they had worked at they knew the manufacturing hurdles ahead of time with a plan to deal with them. Remember, the Pi is literally just a borad with a computer on it. OUYA doesn't even have this simple level of support from it's own team.

Right now they have 8.7 Million dollars to build 80000 units to be sold at 99 a piece. Assuming they have a $10 profit margin, that means they have 1.5 million remaining to develop and fund everything else that is not the console and that is in itself is assuming that the console costs are contained within the hardware which is in itself based on the assumption that the price they stated was realistic in the first place. They still have to build the store, backend, tech support, basically all the infrastructure almost any other company can take for granted. And remember, they were originally trying to do this with 950000 for 10000 units which meant they had 95000 to do everything else. Even if the people worked for free they dont have enough money.

Simply put, the numbers don't work.

I swear every couple of years this happens over and over again. Some new gaming console fad rolls in claims XYZ, MIA/underperforms/overbudget/trainwreaks and then everybody forgets so we can do this all over agan.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Ouya
« Reply #165 on: August 09, 2012, 06:31:34 PM »
It's called outsourcing. You send designs to Foxxconn they send you back 80k X and then you pay the bill.
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Ouya
« Reply #166 on: August 09, 2012, 06:33:03 PM »
Worst case scenario they could just release the hardware without the store and all that other stuff, and then add it in later on when conditions are more favorable. Isn't this what Nintendo does when it comes to the eShop and stuff like that? They put the 3DS hardware out before that was ready, then added that in later.
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Ouya
« Reply #167 on: August 09, 2012, 06:57:59 PM »
It's called outsourcing. You send designs to Foxxconn they send you back 80k X and then you pay the bill.

Foxxconn wouldn't give you the time of the day for 80K units. The cost in time, opportunity, tooling, training for those 80k would exceed the amount OUYA could ask for. Foxxconn does runs in the millions in time tables measured in years. With the Pi they did outsource it in the end because China gave them a better lead time than the company in Britain. Also Foxxconn assembles the things, the parts are sourced elsewhere. Even at Apple pricing, assembling an iPhone is estimated to cost $30.

They can't just release it and pick it up after launch when the conditions are more favorable, they would be out of money. Nintendo can do that because you know for a fact that after launch they are still going to exist. Even the people at Gizmondo got paid in worthless shares.
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Offline shingi_70

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Re: Ouya
« Reply #168 on: August 09, 2012, 07:41:46 PM »
Oyua is in a pretty odd position. Beside the hyper its launching inbetween Wii U and the conosles hitting 2013/2014. The little bit of grassroots hyper will get no where. Lose to touching the next gen marketing machine. That a d while xmbc is cool its pretty niche compared to the poeple wanting to use it for mainstream media functions.


Still $100 will be a steal for what will become a emulator machine.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Ouya
« Reply #169 on: August 09, 2012, 07:56:01 PM »
The parts for Ouya are not their own. Its an nvidea Tegra 3. Because their hardware design is unambitious they could have any firm make their stuff. It doesn't have to be foxxconn. Not every company has to follow a vertical integration model. If the iphone costs $30 dollars to make what do you think the Ouya will cost to make being that it isn't very powerful? Not all successful products are made by oligopolies. I think 8.5 million is plenty to make even 800k of product.
Even without outsourcing. It would cost me $100k to buy a warehouse, another $100k to buy equipment to do production. 50k for materials. $1,000,000 could pay a staff of 20 each $50k for a whole year. However I wouldn't even bother with that. I would just outsource. If you sell them for $100 each that is 100% profit because all the money was donated. If you can sell 80k that is 8 million dollars back. However I only spent 1.25 million to do all this. That yields me a 14-15 million dollar profit to split between executives and making more systems.

That being said 80k isn't even an ambitious number, but if you sell all of your stock then you are successful.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 08:04:38 PM by ThePerm »
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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Ouya
« Reply #170 on: August 09, 2012, 07:56:19 PM »
Does shingi_70 post from his phone?

Offline oohhboy

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Re: Ouya
« Reply #171 on: August 09, 2012, 08:40:39 PM »
Nah, shingi_70 is posting from his OUYA.

Cost of Labour doesn't give a **** about power, it's unrelated, it is the number of man hours required to make something. I had made a small mistake earlier when I forgot to take into account that KS and Amazon takes 5% off the top each and they will have to pay taxes on the amount they bring in if they can't spend it all in the tax period and managed to expense everything out.

Also your numbers are all wrong, they can't sell the stock they make, because they have already "Sold" them to the KS backers. Also this what is this?
Quote
another $100k to buy equipment to do production.
Production of what? Chips? boards? A warehouse full of tables for homeless people to assemble the consoles? Seriously, the rest of your numbers make less sense. $50K materials? Sand? complete chips? what? You pulled that out of nowhere.

**** what do I care, not my money. Better off spending money on popcorn watching this thing crash and burn.
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Offline shingi_70

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Re: Ouya
« Reply #172 on: August 09, 2012, 09:06:41 PM »
Usually posting from a phone or tablet.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Ouya
« Reply #173 on: August 09, 2012, 09:25:05 PM »
they are still making a profit off the kickstarter backers because what the kickstarter backers are getting is worth less then they paid.

Materials, I used to build chips in my electronics class...in high school. Its not like its hard to do. I used to do it for 2 hours a day. We build all sorts of things. All you do is drill holes in chip boards and then solder the pieces to the places on the instructions. Now in my electronics class we used to draw our chip designs with a marker on the board and then dip it in an etching solution. I think you could do a more sophisticated version of that with a newer printer. There are probably computerized machines that drill the holes in the boards. So, people wouldn't even have to drill each hole like I used to do. Thats where im getting the 100k for machines. It could be less it could be more. Its a high ball estimate really. The 50k for materials. However much the circuit boards and chips cost, i did pull that out of nowhere, i doubt it costs much for the materials. 50k is a reasonable number. 50k each for 20 employees was a high ball because 30k sounds more likely. As I said though, they probably aren't building a factory. They are probably outsourcing, and even so.. all they are doing is repackaging an existing product. All it is is a cellphone in a different box, minus the screen. Nothing ambitious about it at all.

It is however convenient for a casual shopper. Even as a niche product, there are 7 billion people in the world. 80k is not ambitious. If 0.025% of the North American population bought it then it will be successful. If 0.0072% of the European and North American population buy it, it will be successful.

it had 63,000 backers. Thats not counting people who didn't bother putting money in. They don't really need to advertise. Of those 64,000...3668 paid just to have an account they could get for free, 47,125 paid just to get a console, 10,255 paid more then a console is worth to have a special edition, 842 people paid from 700-10,000 for other benefits. Only 59,362 have already bought the console. That is $5, 936,200 sold with some sort of profit. That leaves 2.6 million left for whatever. If they only cost $30 to make like the iPad then that means they only cost $1,780,860 to make total, leaving 6.8 million in profit.

Those 59k people will get their console and they will tell 10 friends each, if only 10% of their friends adopt the console thats 120k console sales. Then add people with $99 wanting a cheap media player/game system. Over a 2 year period they could sell at least a million. **** I remember my brother and I grabbing dreamcast when the price went down to $99. I wanted something to do because n64 was dried up, and my brother wanted a system he could hack.

also, i found this today
http://www.linkedin.com/in/edfries

of course we should take a wait and see look, but I'm optimistic about it.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 09:56:07 PM by ThePerm »
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Offline Plugabugz

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Re: Ouya
« Reply #174 on: August 10, 2012, 06:49:54 AM »
My only concern about Ouya is system updates. When it launches it will come with Ice Cream Sandwich. I'm already on Jelly Bean on my Galaxy Nexus.

As we've seen with nearly every Android device thats not Nexus branded it falls behind. In the case of HTC (and some phones they have made like in late 2010/2011), they won't get any updates at all.