Author Topic: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing  (Read 13098 times)

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Offline ejamer

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Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
« on: June 25, 2012, 12:12:38 PM »
Nintendo Power recently released a list of their favorite Wii games, breaking down games into the following categories:

The Must-Haves:
  • Donkey Kong Country Returns
  • The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
  • Little King's Story
  • Mario Kart Wii
  • Metroid Prime Trilogy
  • Rayman Origins
  • Super Mario Galaxy
  • Super Smash Bros. Brawl
  • Tatsunoko vs. Capcom
  • Xenoblade Chronicles
The Should-Haves:
  • Bully: Scholarship Edition
  • Dead Space: Extraction
  • Kirby's Return to Dream Land
  • Klonoa
  • The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
  • No More Heroes 2
  • Punch-Out!!
  • Sonic Colors
  • Super Mario Galaxy 2
  • Zack & Wiki: Quest for Barbaros' Treasure
The Nice-To-Haves:
  • Disney's Epic Mickey
  • GoldenEye 007
  • The House of the Dead: Overkill
  • Kirby's Epic Yarn
  • MadWorld
  • Metroid: Other M
  • New Super Mario Bros. Wii
  • Rhythm Heaven Fever
  • Silent Hill: Shattered Memories
  • Sin & Punishment: Star Successor
Wow, that's lame. Hardly anything worth playing! And it gets worse. When a recent NeoGAF thread (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=479734) started looking at the list, people noticed a few of their favorite titles weren't included. Obviously opinions will differ about which games belonged where on the list, but people mentioned the following games as being key omissions:
From the NeoGAF forums:

  • A Boy and his Blob
  • Batman The Brave and the Bold
  • Battalion Wars 2
  • Bit.Trip Complete
  • Boom Blox series
  • Call of Duty series
  • Cursed Mountain
  • de Blob series
  • Deadly Creatures
  • Dokapon Kingdom
  • Dragon Quest Swords
  • Endless Ocean series
  • Excite Truck
  • Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn
  • Geometry Wars Galaxies
  • Mario Party series
  • Mario Strikers Charged
  • Metal Slug Antholgy
  • Monster Hunter Tri
  • Muramasa The Demon Blade
  • Mushroom Men
  • No More Heroes
  • Okami
  • Pikmin NPC series
  • Pro Evolution Soccer series
  • Red Steel 2
  • Resident Evil 4
  • Resident Evil Umbrella/Darkside Chronicles
  • Rune Factory Frontier
  • Samurai Shodown Anthology
  • Shiren the Wanderer
  • Super Paper Mario
  • The Last Story
  • Tiger Woods PGA Tour series
  • Trauma Team/Center series
  • Wario Land Shake It!
  • WarioWare: Smooth Moves
  • Wii Fit Plus
  • Wii Sports
  • Wii Sports Resort
  • (some others... but I either got tired of writing everything down, didn't personally love the games as much as the people posting them, or decided to ignore the game because it wasn't released in all regions)
Anyway, no wonder the Wii was so poorly regarded this generation. There was just nothing worth playing.

Congrats to Nintendo Power for a pretty solid list of games, even if I personally don't think that Metroid Other M belongs up there with so many other great games available to take its place.  While it's easy to nitpick about what I would've done differently, it's hard to argue against that games selected and this provides a nice look back at the console.


(PS - How many of those games have you purchased or at least played?  I think that I've got 68 from this list... and many of the missing games are on my "buy eventually" list.)
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2012, 12:37:00 PM »
Galaxy 2 being on the Should-Haves and not the Must-Haves completely invalidates that list.
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Offline shingi_70

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Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2012, 12:43:40 PM »
Is rayman Origins a must have game when there are superior versions elsewhere?
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2012, 12:50:11 PM »
Of those listed I counted 21 which I own. I also have others which were not on that list, but are still great games such as Godfather.

The issue I have with Wii games in general is I don't like motion controls. Games which work with the classic controller I have no problem with. I'm not a graphics freak and I don't mind at all if games aren't in HD, but I absolutely hate the wiimote as a controller. In many cases games are made tougher than they need to be simply because you have to fight with the controls to get them to do what you want them to.

Although many of these games listed are Wii exclusive, some of them are multiplatform, and so if you have a PS360 and a Wii there's not really much reason to get the Wii version. Not only will the graphics be better with the PS360 version, but you will also get to use a traditional controller which actually responds and does what you want it to do without having to fight with it. If something like Goldeneye 007 were Wii exclusive it would be a no-brainer, but since they also brought it to the PS360 why would you want the inferior Wii version? The same goes for the COD series, Rayman Origins, and all the other multiplatform titles on that list. Yes, they are awesome games, and yes they are on the Wii, but the Wii version is always inferior.

There are a lot of these games I don't own yet which are on my wishlist, but I am reluctant to buy them simply because I have a feeling they are going to be remade and enhanced for the Wii U somewhere down the road. HD graphics would be a nice enhancement for a Wii U upgraded version, but what I really hope for is improved controls. So I think it pays to be patient with many of these games, because if we wait long enough we will see them return in a better form.

The Wii games which are most worth buying are the ones which are 1) exclusive to the console, and 2) ones which are fairly niche and unlikely to be re-released in an enhanced form in the future. If a game isn't exclusive to the Wii that means a better version exists now, and unless the game is really niche then it would pay to just wait because there will probably a better way of getting it in the future.

That said, I think something like Cursed Mountain epitomizes the sort of Wii game people should buy. On the one hand its Wii exclusive, so there's currently no other way to get it, and on the other hand it seems to have sold poorly so its doubtful its ever going to be re-released in a better form. Its also cheap and apparently a great game. So in every sense it fits the bill for a must have Wii game. But something like Donkey Kong Country Returns even though its a great game, the controls suck and since its a 1st party game and one which has sold well I would bet money that Nintendo will re-release it in the future, so unless you want to play it right now you might as well just wait.

But yeah, Cursed Mountain and the games of high calibur but poor selling like it are definitely a no-brainer to invest in. We will likely never see them again in any form on any console, so it makes sense to get them now while we can.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2012, 12:59:29 PM by Chozo Ghost »
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Offline marty

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Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2012, 01:15:53 PM »
This kind of list really just underpins the "good for a Wii game" kind of excuses that always crop up.  A lot of these games would also fit on a list of "games that would have been a lot better without waggle and/or with a right analog stick (some of which are on other systems)"

Offline Ymeegod

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Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2012, 01:22:26 PM »
Own all but two on Nintendo's list: Rhythm Heaven Fever and Sonic Colors?  And I own 21ish on NaF list.  Wanted to try Curse Mountain but can never find the damn thing. 

And I played Truma Team  but I skipped the first two Truma Centers.



Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2012, 01:29:53 PM »

This kind of list really just underpins the "good for a Wii game" kind of excuses that always crop up.  A lot of these games would also fit on a list of "games that would have been a lot better without waggle and/or with a right analog stick (some of which are on other systems)"

Most of the games on that list, at least the ones that I've played, aren't just "good for the Wii;" they're good games period. And outside of DKCR, which I know for a fact to be better without waggle having played it that way, I can't think of a game on that list that would be that much better with different controls. There are certainly games on the system that fall into that category, but most of what's on this list doesn't.
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Offline marty

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Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2012, 01:44:50 PM »


This kind of list really just underpins the "good for a Wii game" kind of excuses that always crop up.  A lot of these games would also fit on a list of "games that would have been a lot better without waggle and/or with a right analog stick (some of which are on other systems)"

Most of the games on that list, at least the ones that I've played, aren't just "good for the Wii;" they're good games period. And outside of DKCR, which I know for a fact to be better without waggle having played it that way, I can't think of a game on that list that would be that much better with different controls. There are certainly games on the system that fall into that category, but most of what's on this list doesn't.
okay, of all the games i played on that list, most of them were hurt by waggle and or lack of decent camera controls, you're free to feel differently.

Offline ejamer

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Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2012, 02:02:19 PM »
...  If something like Goldeneye 007 were Wii exclusive it would be a no-brainer, but since they also brought it to the PS360 why would you want the inferior Wii version? ... Yes, they are awesome games, and yes they are on the Wii, but the Wii version is always inferior.  ...


This is a fair opinion, but I can't agree that Wii versions have always been inferior.


Until recently, motion/pointer controls for Golf and Soccer and Tennis games have typically made Wii versions play better than their HD counterparts.  Preferred control schemes will often vary, but for any FPS title I'd take pointer controls over dual-analog in a heartbeat (and mouse/keyboard over pointer controls just as fast).  There is also the whole timing issue - HD re-releases of great Wii games won't necessarily phase me in the same way that Batman Arkham City on Wii U won't get me nearly as excited as when those games were first release.


It's also worth noting that the number of exclusives here is impressive - with many games that aren't exclusive being either the best release available or coming out on Wii years ahead of other platforms.


I guess the point is that when I look at that list, I see a lot of great software.  Period.  Some games have since been improved, and some could have been improved.  But there are a lot of games worth playing and a lot of games that still can't be experienced elsewhere.
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Offline Stogi

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Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2012, 02:24:03 PM »
"I guess the point is that when I look at that list, I see a lot of great software.  Period.  Some games have since been improved, and some could have been improved.  But there are a lot of games worth playing and a lot of games that still can't be experienced elsewhere."

This. I look up at that list and see hours of my day "wasted". I will agree that the Wii doesn't have those games that keeps me coming back to play it (in fact, my number one game for the Wii right now is Double Dragon for the NES -- I will beat you one day, you son of a bitch). But there are so many good games up there that I don't even have. For instance, despite PRO's incessant love for BW2, I still haven't played it.
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2012, 02:24:08 PM »
Wanted to try Curse Mountain but can never find the damn thing.

http://www.amazon.com/Cursed-Mountain-Limited-Edition-Nintendo-Wii/dp/B002M6VSOM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1340648443&sr=8-1&keywords=cursed+mountain

It is only $8.99 brand new with free super saver shipping, and this is the Limited Editiion of the game which comes in a steel book case (like Metroid Prime Trilogy does) along with the game's soundtrack and a "making of" DVD.

http://www.amazon.com/Cursed-Mountain-Wii-Nintendo/dp/B001P5HM64/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1340648443&sr=8-2&keywords=cursed+mountain

You can also get the regular edition of the game for $9.96, but it is a dollar more and doesn't have the cool extras so there's no reason not to get the Limited Edition.


Everyone reading this thread should get this game, and I conveniently provided links to both versions of it so you can't use the "I can't find it" excuse.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2012, 02:25:49 PM by Chozo Ghost »
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Offline ejamer

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Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2012, 02:37:36 PM »
(No international shipping makes it tougher for some to get the limited edition of Cursed Mountain, but it's worth the effort in my opinion. I was able to replace my normal version with the limited edition by trading games on Goozex. Sadly that site has seen better days, but hopefully Canadians can find other ways to track down the game.)
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2012, 03:05:39 PM »
The Wii is not a worthless system and it has some absolutely amazing games.  It just didn't get enough support to really work well as my "main" system.  Finding a cheap one to get some of the must-play classics would be worth it to any serious gamer.

Like Chozo, I hate motion control.  It typically does nothing put make what would normally be a button press take MORE effort to perform with LESS precision.  DKC Returns, NSMB Wii and the Super Mario Galaxy games fall just short of greatness because their controls suck.  They all have waggle that you cannot turn off.  As much as I enjoyed those games it was impossible to not have some sort of "ARRRGH!" moment of frustation in each play session.  Every time I play I feel like I have to fight the controls and kind of try to ignore those problems.  If I have to make a conscious effort to ignore a sucky part of game, it's not that great of a game.  And what really sucks is that I used to associate Nintendo with great controls.  Nintendo games didn't have loosey-goosey **** controls.  They were accurate and precise and intuitive.  On the Wii (and sometimes on the DS) that went out the window in favour of gimmicky nonsense.

I'm loving Xenoblade and a big reason for it is that it doesn't control like ****.  It has no control issues whatsoever (and it's a new IP, and it doesn't cater to casuals in any way).

Another problem with the Wii is that motion control is ALL it has going for it... and I hate it.  So the Wii is more like the Gamecube had a ten year life cycle, only Nintendo ran out of ideas for it five years ago.  I don't need two Gamecube Mario Karts or SSBs.  There just isn't enough of anything NEW they could do with those ideas except graph on horrible controls.  I can use normal controls for those games but then how does this really differ from the Cube games?

Offline ejamer

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Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2012, 04:04:37 PM »
...  Another problem with the Wii is that motion control is ALL it has going for it... and I hate it.  ...


Many people lump motion controls and pointer controls into the same package.  While I'm ambivalent at best to motion controls that were all too often pushed into games haphazardly, I'm a huge fan of pointer controls when well implemented. There are a handful of Wii games that use them to excellent effect and couldn't be played elsewhere until Sony Move implemented a similar effect.


So yeah... unique controls and exclusive software probably is all that Wii had going for it.  Really is a shame that waggle was so commonly seen though.
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2012, 04:07:27 PM »
Some games, like RE4, were better with pointer controls and not necessarily waggle. In fact, I'm shocked that one didn't make the list at all since it's one of probably very few examples of the Wii version being the best version of a game.
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Offline Louieturkey

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Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2012, 04:43:32 PM »
Some games, like RE4, were better with pointer controls and not necessarily waggle. In fact, I'm shocked that one didn't make the list at all since it's one of probably very few examples of the Wii version being the best version of a game.
Unless you count the HD remake for the PS3 which also has the pointer controls.

Offline Louieturkey

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Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2012, 04:44:42 PM »
Wanted to try Curse Mountain but can never find the damn thing.

http://www.amazon.com/Cursed-Mountain-Limited-Edition-Nintendo-Wii/dp/B002M6VSOM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1340648443&sr=8-1&keywords=cursed+mountain

It is only $8.99 brand new with free super saver shipping, and this is the Limited Editiion of the game which comes in a steel book case (like Metroid Prime Trilogy does) along with the game's soundtrack and a "making of" DVD.

http://www.amazon.com/Cursed-Mountain-Wii-Nintendo/dp/B001P5HM64/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1340648443&sr=8-2&keywords=cursed+mountain

You can also get the regular edition of the game for $9.96, but it is a dollar more and doesn't have the cool extras so there's no reason not to get the Limited Edition.


Everyone reading this thread should get this game, and I conveniently provided links to both versions of it so you can't use the "I can't find it" excuse.
Done, I bought the LE version.  I had looked at it before and just didn't want to buy a Wii game.  Your endorsement made me want to get it and at that price, I cannot pass it up.  Now I just need to hook my Wii up again to be able to play it.  Or maybe I'll wait til I get a Wii U and just play it on that.

Offline broodwars

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Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2012, 04:45:51 PM »
Some games, like RE4, were better with pointer controls and not necessarily waggle. In fact, I'm shocked that one didn't make the list at all since it's one of probably very few examples of the Wii version being the best version of a game.
Unless you count the HD remake for the PS3 which also has the pointer controls.

No, it doesn't.  From what I've read in reviews, the PS3 "HD" version of RE4 does NOT have Move support.
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Offline MagicCow64

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Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2012, 05:48:21 PM »
Interesting to see Cursed Mountain get some attention. I picked it up used for a few bucks a little while back out of vague curiosity. The setting and Buddhist themes are stand-outs, but the gameplay itself it sadly kind of dreadfully repetitive. I lost interest after getting about halfway through. Worth giving a spin for the horror game enthusiast, but I can't recommend it for general audiences.

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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2012, 08:25:32 PM »
I think the problem with your argument is your list of games completely invalidates it.

You have listed 20 Must have games that many are exclusive to the Wii, and another 20ish Should have games, many are exclusive, and should honestly be up on the must have.  And still you left some great and amazing games off the list.

Basically, the Wii isn't a failure.  It has produced some great games that are quite enjoyable, changed the gaming console market as we know it...and helped bring Nintendo back into the minds of media and public as still relevant. 

Yes, the Wii has been lacking games for the last year perhaps 2.  But even still great games have come out to play.  And it is important to realize not everyone buys a new game every month even.  So that list of games alone gets you through at least 2-3 years of gaming. 

People that want to attack the Wii do it needlessly and pointlessly.  We all know the Wii's strengths and weaknesses...and we don't fight and argue if it was successful or not.

Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2012, 09:12:50 AM »
How did you not pick up on the fact that that title was sarcastic?
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Offline ejamer

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Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2012, 09:20:46 AM »
I think the problem with your argument is your list of games completely invalidates it.
...


A few quick clarifications:
  • not my list - it was created by Nintendo Power, with the additional entries being games that people took time to speak out and say "hey, they missed one of my favorites"
  • I wasn't really attacking the Wii, the title was just making fun of the common memes that Wii failed and is ignored and dusty because it lacks games
  • my intent here was to list a bunch of great games and maybe encourage people to play something they might have missed out on
There wasn't really any "argument" presented.  It's just a big list of games, with some of my favorites (like the excellent but often forgotten Dawn of Discovery) not even included yet.


Interesting to see Cursed Mountain get some attention. I picked it up used for a few bucks a little while back out of vague curiosity. The setting and Buddhist themes are stand-outs, but the gameplay itself it sadly kind of dreadfully repetitive. I lost interest after getting about halfway through. Worth giving a spin for the horror game enthusiast, but I can't recommend it for general audiences.
...


I agree that Cursed Mountain isn't an easy recommendation for everyone.  It feels pretty old-school and will really only appeal to a small segment of the market who like the classic survival horror genre.  However... it's the type of game that a small set of people will enjoy immensely, which probably makes it worth trying given the low price.  (The setting and atmosphere are pretty sweet too!)


In some ways, it reminds me of Mushroom Men - another Wii title that is probably best described as "limited" but that I enjoyed a great deal and happily played to completion.
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Offline Tamazoid

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Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2012, 10:20:15 AM »
Pfft where's:


Cod4
Cod5
Cod6
Cod7
Cod8
Halo 3
Halo ODST
Halo Reach
Halo Anniversary
Gears of War
Gears of War 2
Gears of War 3
Forza


Xbox shits all over this list.
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Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2012, 10:41:59 AM »
I know you're joking, but Call of Duty 4, 5, 7 and 8 are on the NeoGAF list. Also, I would love to see something like Forza on a Nintendo system.
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Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2012, 11:06:07 AM »
One thing I believed when the Wii came out was that companies like Rockstar would come out with new GTAs for the system, but just use the PS2 engine to create alternate versions that PS3/Xbox 360 got. 
 
Boy was I mistaken.
 
Interesting you come to a Nintendo-Centric website starting a topic like this.  Most people here would agree with you that the Wii had several fantastic games making the system worthwhile to own. 
 
It's just that most people here also are disappointed that they had to purchase a second console to get all the 3rd party games the Wii was incapable of running.