Author Topic: Nintendo Wises Up  (Read 69065 times)

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Offline Stogi

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Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #175 on: January 28, 2012, 02:35:47 PM »
In theory, yes. But it practice, the world can't work like that. Information would be so limited.

Have you ever given a book to a friend after you read it?

In order for that example to work, someone would have to first buy the pirated movie and then give it to me. Since the best quality versions are DVD-rips or BluRay-rips, I'm pretty sure that's the case. However, in my example it is one book being given and not a copy of it, so the first owner would lose the book as someone gained it. And that is where I think the fundamental argument lies.

If I own something, can I make a copy of it? If I own a copy of something, can I give it away?
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #176 on: January 28, 2012, 02:36:54 PM »
It's actually kind of an interesting business model he's suggesting. In a post-scarcity economy for entertainment, he's arguing for payment to be contingent on enjoyment, as opposed to distribution, which no longer costs anything. I've seen musicians arguing a similar point, where they make their money from live shows and merchandise, and don't care if the music files are pirated. If it were widely adopted, I could see it increasing the quality of entertainment, with the things people enjoy the most making the most money. Or it could destroy the business entirely. But it would be fun to watch.
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #177 on: January 28, 2012, 02:42:05 PM »
If it were widely adopted, I could see it increasing the quality of entertainment, with the things people enjoy the most making the most money.

Which is *awesome* - if you like popular things.

If you like niche things, well...
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Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #178 on: January 28, 2012, 02:43:23 PM »
If I own something, can I make a copy of it? If I own a copy of something, can I give it away?

From my understanding, you are allowed to make a back-up copy for yourself, but can not give it away.
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Offline Stogi

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Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #179 on: January 28, 2012, 03:02:05 PM »
If it were widely adopted, I could see it increasing the quality of entertainment, with the things people enjoy the most making the most money.

Which is *awesome* - if you like popular things.

If you like niche things, well...

Niche things don't do well now under the conventional system.

@TJ

A back-up copy that you can give to anyone else. That seems impossible to enforce and thus shouldn't be enforced.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2012, 03:04:05 PM by Stogi »
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #180 on: January 28, 2012, 03:04:43 PM »
If it were widely adopted, I could see it increasing the quality of entertainment, with the things people enjoy the most making the most money.

Which is *awesome* - if you like popular things.

If you like niche things, well...

Niche things don't do well now under the conventional system.


They do well enough to get made.

That's not to say your idea would kill niche products - they already exist now, in a similar format to what you describe.  But it's already hard enough to find some of this stuff legally - could you imagine if there was *no* profit to be made by it?
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Offline Stogi

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Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #181 on: January 28, 2012, 03:20:30 PM »
As someone who doesn't pirate, I don't think you can relate to the type of environment I dwell in. Having every genre of music available to you for free doesn't make things harder to find, it opens up the world. This isn't like searching through a library in the dark, it's more like Homer visiting the Land of Chocolate. The only thing stopping you from exploring the land and all it's wonderful fruit is you.

Furthermore, in today's conventional system popularity will always make you money. That's true in what I envision as well except I'm not being told what's popular, I'm finding it. So if these niche bands who would have never been picked by the conventional system get circulated by billions of people, they have a better chance of becoming popular and thus of succeeding.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2012, 03:23:46 PM by Stogi »
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #182 on: January 28, 2012, 03:36:59 PM »
The contents on ACTA were never made public until Wikileak's release and it's contents still doesn't have an official release. Why do you think Kader Arif quit his job? Here is the full text of his statement:
Quote
I want to denounce in the strongest possible manner the entire process that led to the signature of this agreement: no inclusion of civil society organisations, a lack of transparency from the start of the negotiations, repeated postponing of the signature of the text without an explanation being ever given, exclusion of the EU Parliament's demands that were expressed on several occasions in our assembly.

 As rapporteur of this text, I have faced never-before-seen manoeuvres from the right wing of this Parliament to impose a rushed calendar before public opinion could be alerted, thus depriving the Parliament of its right to expression and of the tools at its disposal to convey citizens' legitimate demands.”

 Everyone knows the ACTA agreement is problematic, whether it is its impact on civil liberties, the way it makes Internet access providers liable, its consequences on generic drugs manufacturing, or how little protection it gives to our geographical indications.

 This agreement might have major consequences on citizens' lives, and still, everything is being done to prevent the European Parliament from having its say in this matter. That is why today, as I release this report for which I was in charge, I want to send a strong signal and alert the public opinion about this unacceptable situation. I will not take part in this masquerade.

The whole process is damn undemocratic. Do you think they have something to hide? Looks to be a classic example of policy laundering.

And since it's a treaty, it itself is now law. It's just an agreement by the countries to create laws/policies/guidelines, etc.
For the US, this is very wrong and it other countries, still wrong, just less so. Once a treaty is ratified, it becomes binding on all the states under the Supremacy Clause. Once ratified in the US, it automatically becomes law even if it was agree upon under executive agreement(Presidential power) alone, requiring no vote. In fact, treaties are only second to the constitution and will override domestic laws in the US and in many other countries.

What is potentially likely to happen is that should the treaty be ratified, the US would repeal the treaty due to "Unconstitutionality" once foreign governments have enacted the law leaving other nations in a competitive disadvantage.

If you don't want to discuss politics TJ, stop discussing it. Also, what the hell does terrorism have to do with this? Guy Fawkes's image has long since been co-opted into something different from the moment his plot was discovered and continues to change as time goes by. Guy Fawkes was initially celebrated to promote the King's escape, then as a man of convictions to stand against corruption and now the universal face of rebellion against western governments that no longer represent the people. It also sells fireworks. In a spot of irony, The Guy face mask is copyrighted by Time-Warner. Which makes it an extra awesome display of subtly that the Polish pirated the mask by printing them on paper. I really hate having to explain a joke to you TJ. Sorry for ruining your joke SUPER.

Oh, lets not forget to add something funny to the discussion. Remember when the RIAA sued for $75 TRILLION DOLLARS. That's 75,000,000,000,000 Dollars. Yes that's trillions. That's greater then the GDP of the entire world and a full 5 years GDP of the US. I will let you guess what the judge said.

Niche products always have a smaller market by definition, the main problem was always the difficulty of reaching the potential customers of such a market. Now things are just a google away. Old school business models don't do niche this they are so small they don't have good investment to payoff ratios assuming under their model it was ever positive, leaving it open to other more enterprising people willing to take more risks. With the internet, the bar to finding a niche product has fallen so far(Think rule 34), that the sum total of the niche market has become a large proportion of the total market making them collectively, a threat to the larger, established players. Under the new system, the big players earn less, but everybody else gains. The big boys don't want this since it means they buy 2 boats instead of 3 when they can live with 1.

One of the greatest things that impede free market efficacy is imperfect information, while perfect information can't be achieved, we can get very close to it. Pirating something can be considered almost perfect information on a product, making it extremely good at judging it's true value. It's very free market.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #183 on: January 28, 2012, 04:09:29 PM »
The U.S. could always chose to not accept the treaty, rather than leave this matter to the courts.  China's done it on at least one occasion to preserve its piracy-driven economy, and I believe we've refused a few environmental treaties before as well.
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #184 on: January 28, 2012, 04:17:05 PM »
As a point of clarification, it's the US pushing for this treaty in cooperation with Japan, so the US has already accepted the treaty. What happens afterwards is another matter.
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #185 on: January 28, 2012, 05:24:03 PM »
I find it fitting that Anonymous likes Guy Fawkes masks since Fawkes was a terrorist (he tried to blow up the Parliament building and participated in the plot to try and assassinate the king of England).

Does it mean anything to you that the king was a despot who persecuted Catholics and anyone else who wasn't Protestant? If taking a stand for religious tolerance makes Guy Fawkes a terrorist, then yeah he was a terrorist but a good terrorist.
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Offline Stogi

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Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #186 on: January 28, 2012, 06:55:42 PM »
At least we can all agree that Guy Fawkes is the best name in human history.

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Offline Morari

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Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #187 on: January 28, 2012, 07:55:49 PM »
Or is it?

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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #188 on: January 28, 2012, 07:58:59 PM »
I am hesitant to consider Guy Fawkes a hero per se because his objective was to install a new (although probably less tyrannical) monarch in place of the one he assassinated. Had his goal been to create a republic or democracy, then yeah, why wouldn't he be a hero? But on the same token, I don't consider him to be a villain either because the king was a bad guy. According to wikipedia King James VI personally supervised the torture of women during the witch hunts. How the hell can that be considered good? And the persecution of catholics and other religions was evil too.
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Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #189 on: January 28, 2012, 08:37:11 PM »
I'm pretty sure we blew up Saddam Hussein's house...sorry for getting the thread closed.
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #190 on: January 28, 2012, 09:10:15 PM »
At least we can all agree that Guy Fawkes is the best name in human history.

False.
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Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #191 on: January 28, 2012, 09:28:04 PM »
I was going to point that one out,  but actually THIS is the best name ever. It means Batman, Son of Suparman...which is close enough.
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #192 on: January 29, 2012, 12:38:40 AM »
I think the thing some of you are missing regarding my concern for niche products isn't "finding" them (although I did use that word) - is more of "Who's going to create them?"

Granted - you're going to have some folks who will create to create, if only for the passion of it - but passion can only get you so far.  Personally, I'd *LOVE* to own my own arcade... and you can't tell me I don't have the passion for it.  However, I'd need someone to finance it and, as the arcade likely wouldn't really make enough to survive, I'm going to need them to finance my salary as well.

It's a similar thing with niche products.  If we move to a "pay what you want" model, you're going to see less niche products simply for the fact that small-time producers and such can't afford to make them.  They're going to have a harder time getting any kind of capital to help finance their vision (more so than now) and they're not going to have as much time to devote to it because they're going to be working a day job or two.
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #193 on: January 29, 2012, 01:43:20 AM »
How is that significantly different from something like the indie game scene right now? They rarely get outside capital, and often work other jobs in addition to making the game.

Look at something like the Humble Indie Bundles. A lot of people pay less than a dollar, but some people pay thousands. Obviously you can't expect that to happen all the time, but it would at least somewhat balance out, at least at first. The real issue would be how things would work if such a model became more common and fewer people went out of their way to support it.
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #194 on: January 29, 2012, 01:47:39 AM »
How is that significantly different from something like the indie game scene right now? They rarely get outside capital, and often work other jobs in addition to making the game.

Look at something like the Humble Indie Bundles. A lot of people pay less than a dollar, but some people pay thousands. Obviously you can't expect that to happen all the time, but it would at least somewhat balance out, at least at first. The real issue would be how things would work if such a model became more common and fewer people went out of their way to support it.

Is there a game on the indie scene anywhere close to the quality of, say, Xenoblade?

Don't get me wrong - there are some great indie games out there (just finished Cut the Rope on my phone today... first cell phone game I've actually not felt like I wasted my money on!)...  but nothing on the indie scene has reached this kind of quality.
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #195 on: January 29, 2012, 02:01:30 AM »
If by quality you mean production values, then no. Personally, I'd take something like Super Meat Boy or VVVVVV over Xenoblade in a heartbeat. But you were talking about niche products, which I wouldn't consider Xenoblade to be.
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #196 on: January 29, 2012, 02:11:40 AM »
I'd say Super Meat Boy and VVVVVV actually have a larger audience than Xenoblade.

As for "quality", of course, it's subjective - but looking at the reviews of Xenoblade vs. those of Super Meat Boy and VVVVVV, I'd say the general consensus is that Xenoblade is a notch above the other two.

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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #197 on: January 29, 2012, 02:25:43 AM »
I'm a big platformer guy and not much of an RPG fan. People who like big, epic RPGs probably wouldn't benefit as much from a system like this.
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #198 on: January 29, 2012, 11:49:55 AM »
I'm a big platformer guy and not much of an RPG fan. People who like big, epic RPGs probably wouldn't benefit as much from a system like this.

Platforming isn't really a niche genre though.  RPGs that are not Final Fantasy are. :D
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Offline Stogi

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Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #199 on: January 29, 2012, 03:20:44 PM »
Sims, Farmville, Animal Crossing.

All three of those have been more popular than FF as of late.
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