Author Topic: Nintendo Wises Up  (Read 69104 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline UncleBob

  • (PATRON)
  • NWR Junior Ranger
  • Score: 98
    • View Profile
Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #150 on: January 25, 2012, 10:30:01 AM »
The point isn't to argue the decriminalization of copyright infringement though. The point is to get the system grounded back in something resembling reality. To stop catering to dying industries. To spend money where it is really needed and will really help people. I guess that we would have to stop thinking of faceless corporations as "people" first...

You realize that actual, living and breathing people make up these "faceless" corporations, right?

Also, seriously, do you realize how bad it would be if copyright infringement was just legalized?  For better or worse, countries with strong copyright protections (US, Japan) are countries with strong entertainment industries.

If you spent $5,000 developing a game or shooting a movie, and as soon as it was released (or, sometimes, beforehand) anyone could copy it whenever they wanted and no one was expected to pay you for it, do you think you'd make you $5,000 back?

Now, imagine you just spent $50 million on that game/movie.

The *only* reason people don't mass pirate now (aside from those with slow internet speeds) is because it's illegal/immoral.  If you take that away, you'd destroy the industry.

I agree the laws need to be changed - but to do away with criminal penalties all together?  Insanity.
Just some random guy on the internet who has a different opinion of games than you.

Offline oohhboy

  • Forum Friend or Foe?
  • Score: 38
    • View Profile
Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #151 on: January 25, 2012, 11:58:47 AM »
The reason why I don't pirate everything is because I want to see more of whatever I had brought. It's not a legal or a moral question. The question is, do you want more of this?

Let's say I pirate something and I turn around and buy a copy. I didn't do it out of the kindness of my heart, I did it as an investment for more of the same in the future.
If you spent $5,000 developing a game or shooting a movie, and as soon as it was released (or, sometimes, beforehand) anyone could copy it whenever they wanted and no one was expected to pay you for it, do you think you'd make you $5,000 back?

This situation already exists yet the market is still here. In China where they don't give a ****, they still make movies, massive epics with thousands of extras and they continue to do so because there is money in it even with industrialised bootlegging. Bollywood gets stronger every year. There are indie developers that spend upwards of 5/6 figures on a game and they make that back without issue.

Plenty of new innovations are coming out in this free environment, including new ways of funding development with kick starter programs, indie funds, direct end user funded development. The older models are still here, you can go to the big publishers, but now it is no longer the only option. This is literally voting with your dollars in action.

"Fair use" (Effectively limited legalised copyright infringement)is worth almost double in added value to the US economy than copyright @ 2.2 Trillion dollars.

Now abolishing copyright would make the whole exercise moot. There has to be some level of protection to prevent people from copying your product and selling it as their own. Laws should be a shield, not a weapon and the people who wrote SOPA/PIPA in every way to be a weapon as will their future attempts will be. No one wants them, but they bully, threaten, plot in secret(ACTA), using the US government power to pass laws in foreign countries without representation of the citizens who had earlier rejected such law. Copyright laws are already too strong when you have a company suing a Timezone database and almost winning just from the threat alone because they are a timezone database with no legal resources.

There are people like TJ that think saving the Music and Movie industry $89 million is worth sacrificing the internet over. I won't summarise that article as I can't do it justice it deserves.(Thank you MegaByte for the link earlier) That is 28.9 CENTS per person in direct ecomonic damage caused by piracy assuming that it doesn't have positive effects or assuming that there is a level of economic damage that would call for the destruction of the internet not offset by the internet itself.

Lastly corporations maybe made up of people(Not always, see shell corporations), but they are not people and they don't represent people. They are a legal construct used to mitigate personal risks in business. It is a useful construct, it lowers risks by pooling and limiting liability, help people work towards a singular goal regardless of motivations, creed or ability, increased productivity through scales of economy and enable big projects by pooling resources.

But never, ever mistake a company as a "person".
I'm Lacus. I'm fine as Lacus!
Pffh. Toilet paper? What do you think cats are for?

Offline bustin98

  • Bustin' out kids
  • Score: 30
    • View Profile
    • Web Design Web Hosting Computer Sales and Service
Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #152 on: January 25, 2012, 12:31:37 PM »
I like this thread. Shows we have some thought provoking people here. I don't agree with everyone, but there is some thought present.

Offline Morari

  • 46 DC EA D3 17 FE 45 D8 09 23 EB 97 E4 95 64 10 D4 CD B2 C2
  • Score: -7237
    • View Profile
Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #153 on: January 25, 2012, 05:12:42 PM »
If you spent $5,000 developing a game or shooting a movie, and as soon as it was released (or, sometimes, beforehand) anyone could copy it whenever they wanted and no one was expected to pay you for it, do you think you'd make you $5,000 back?

It's funny you should ask, because I have done exactly that. Except in my case it was actually closer to $8,000. It took a little more than a year of fairly low-level marketing to make all of my money back. That was in 20009, and the film still sells a handful of copies each month. I've made a profit doing something I would have done anyway because I enjoy doing it.

The entire film is available for download or for streaming right through my website for free. Furthermore, it is made available under a Share-alike license. Just like all of my work is. People still buy a physical copy, though. Why? Because they genuinely enjoy it and want an official copy. Maybe they want to spread the word and give it to someone else as a gift or donate a copy to their local library. Perhaps they tend to like my work in general and want to show their support. Hell, maybe they just want to see the goofy extras and behind the scenes stuff that is held back exclusively for the physical release.

The point is that this isn't some utopian idea being thrown around. It works, and it works well. The entrenched industries don't like it however because they would have to do things like charge fair prices and produce products that aren't absolute trash. They would have to change how they do business, and that is the very last thing they want to do.

As I said before, the point isn't to decriminalize copyright infringement. The point is to get the system grounded back in something resembling reality. Should content creators be able to profit from their work if they choose to? Absolutely, but not for Life+70 Years. That doesn't promote creativity, it stifles it. Not only will the original creator become lazy and never produce again, but his work is now locked down to the point where it may practically never be used in further innovation. Without a copyright system in place I can't retain what control I do want over my own work, such as impose a Copyleft license. ;)
« Last Edit: January 25, 2012, 05:16:02 PM by Morari »
"This post has been censored for your protection."

                                --Bureau of Internet Morality

Offline Chozo Ghost

  • I do want the Wii U to fail.
  • Score: -431
    • View Profile
Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #154 on: January 25, 2012, 05:22:36 PM »
I'm not sure whether piracy helps or hurts the industry. Either way may be true. But if it does hurt the industry, I doubt its by very much. Actors and Actresses are making hundreds of millions of dollars, so they can't be hurting too badly.
is your sanity...

Offline BranDonk Kong

  • Eat your f'ing cat!
  • Score: 10131
    • View Profile
Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #155 on: January 25, 2012, 09:34:00 PM »
Exactly. I love when people representing Hollywood studios whine and bitch about how piracy "really hurts the stage hands, etc" - yeah, I'm sure it has nothing to do with the lead actors making $20 million per film (along with profit sharing, not just their salary, often), and the producers making the same if not more.
I think it says on the box, 'No Hispanics' " - Jeff Green of EA

Offline nickmitch

  • You can edit these yourself now?!
  • Score: 82
    • View Profile
    • FACEBOOK!
Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #156 on: January 25, 2012, 09:47:25 PM »
Right. The cost of doing movies is going up, and it's not the pirates' fault. Studios try to throttle movie theatres out of the ticket sales who then have to (pardon my French) charge out the ass for soda and popcorn. The real problem just comes down to studios making **** movies with over paid actors and overdone CGI.
TVman is dead. I killed him and took his posts.

Offline UncleBob

  • (PATRON)
  • NWR Junior Ranger
  • Score: 98
    • View Profile
Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #157 on: January 25, 2012, 10:59:44 PM »
I keep reading comments about the lack of quality that comes out of Hollywood and the like.  While I don't disagree on a large portion of it - I do have to ask, if no one likes what they're producing, then why does anyone bother pirating their stuff?
Just some random guy on the internet who has a different opinion of games than you.

Offline Morari

  • 46 DC EA D3 17 FE 45 D8 09 23 EB 97 E4 95 64 10 D4 CD B2 C2
  • Score: -7237
    • View Profile
Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #158 on: January 26, 2012, 11:42:46 AM »
I don't believe that your hardcore pirates gather things for actual consumption. They download hundreds of movies and dozens of video games per week. They never get around to actually utilizing the vast majority of what they pirate. They would have never bought most of it in the first place, even if they could have physically afforded to. They just like having the stuff.
"This post has been censored for your protection."

                                --Bureau of Internet Morality

Offline Chozo Ghost

  • I do want the Wii U to fail.
  • Score: -431
    • View Profile
Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #159 on: January 26, 2012, 05:01:55 PM »
Most of the movies I've seen aren't even worth watching a single time, and of those worth watching once very few were good enough I'd ever consider watching a second or third time. So it wouldn't be worth it for me to spend $20-$30 to buy a DVD/Blu-ray since I would only watch it once anyway.

That said, I also don't understand why anyone would pirate movies when you can just borrow them from the local library for free anyway or you can watch them on TV if you're willing to wait long enough. There's nothing illegal about that, but at the same time it doesn't cost you a cent either.

Shouldn't public libraries be illegal? One would think they would hurt sales, because people can just borrow what they want for free instead of buying it.
is your sanity...

Offline UncleBob

  • (PATRON)
  • NWR Junior Ranger
  • Score: 98
    • View Profile
Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #160 on: January 26, 2012, 06:38:46 PM »
Shouldn't public libraries be illegal? One would think they would hurt sales, because people can just borrow what they want for free instead of buying it.

*yawn*.

Either you know why this isn't the case or it's not worth the time explaining it.
Just some random guy on the internet who has a different opinion of games than you.

Offline Morari

  • 46 DC EA D3 17 FE 45 D8 09 23 EB 97 E4 95 64 10 D4 CD B2 C2
  • Score: -7237
    • View Profile
Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #161 on: January 26, 2012, 07:31:13 PM »
Public libraries would be illegal if the idea was proposed in today's world of IP laws. There's already a plethora of idiotic arguments against lending digital goods, such as e-books.
"This post has been censored for your protection."

                                --Bureau of Internet Morality

Offline TJ Spyke

  • Ass
  • Score: -1350
    • View Profile
    • Spyke Shop
Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #162 on: January 26, 2012, 07:44:03 PM »
Stop being so cynical Morari, no they wouldn't be. I do think it's stupid publishers are having restrictions on renting eBooks (the American Library Association recently was upset after Penguin Publishing pulled its eBooks from libraries after a glitch let Kindle users keep their books after the rental date ended). If anything, the government has been very supportive of libraries and I have never seen any IP holder complain about them.
Help out a poor college student, buy video games and Blu-ray Discs at: http://astore.amazon.com/spyke-20

Offline Chozo Ghost

  • I do want the Wii U to fail.
  • Score: -431
    • View Profile
Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #163 on: January 26, 2012, 08:14:20 PM »
Stop being so cynical Morari, no they wouldn't be.

Can you offer a good argument that they wouldn't?
is your sanity...

Offline TJ Spyke

  • Ass
  • Score: -1350
    • View Profile
    • Spyke Shop
Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #164 on: January 26, 2012, 08:22:15 PM »
Besides the fact that I just stated that both the government and IP holders support libraries? You don't see anyone advocating against them like you do with used games or services like Netflix/Redbox.
Help out a poor college student, buy video games and Blu-ray Discs at: http://astore.amazon.com/spyke-20

Offline BranDonk Kong

  • Eat your f'ing cat!
  • Score: 10131
    • View Profile
Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #165 on: January 26, 2012, 09:55:58 PM »
If it wasn't for the fact that libraries are and have been a staple of society for a very long time, as in, if libraries did not exist and the idea to start a library was something new, then I agree with Morari's notion.
I think it says on the box, 'No Hispanics' " - Jeff Green of EA

Offline Chozo Ghost

  • I do want the Wii U to fail.
  • Score: -431
    • View Profile
Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #166 on: January 26, 2012, 10:07:14 PM »
I remember Jack Valenti who was the head of the MPAA at the time was against the introduction of VCRs and fought it. Fortunately he lost and VCRs were allowed to exist, and the movie industry has profited greatly from them and the sales of VHS videos and then later DVDs and Bluray, but at the time they were against it and tried to kill it off.

So with that said, I have no doubt if public libraries didn't exist and if someone tried to introduce them now in this day and age there would be a shitstorm of opposition to it.
is your sanity...

Offline oohhboy

  • Forum Friend or Foe?
  • Score: 38
    • View Profile
Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #167 on: January 28, 2012, 05:37:03 AM »
I keep reading comments about the lack of quality that comes out of Hollywood and the like.  While I don't disagree on a large portion of it - I do have to ask, if no one likes what they're producing, then why does anyone bother pirating their stuff?

I have been thinking about this question over the last couple of days thinking why I couldn't come up with an answer to this question. Reframing the question to"If Hollywood keep making **** movies,why are people still paying movie to see them?" produces an answer and the answer is the same for both questions and is equally irrelevant as the question itself.

The answer is that there are people that like this stuff and people with more discerning taste might very well be in the minority. Why do you think movie license games keep selling in significant, but not blockbusting amounts despite overwhelming evidence that they are 95% of the time at best mediocre games and at worse a step above a black screen.

I couldn't possibly tell you why they like it, you will have to ask someone like that yourself, all I can tell you is that they do like it and they represent a significant number that maybe a silent majority.


In related news: European Parliament rapporteur quits in Acta protest

For those wondering what the hell a rapporteur is. They are special investigators of special issues who produce reports that shape policy. Based on the artical, it looks like he was completely locked out of the process he was hired for.
Kader Arif:
Quote
"I condemn the whole process which led to the signature of this agreement: no consultation of the civil society, lack of transparency since the beginning of negotiations, repeated delays of the signature of the text without any explanation given, reject of Parliament's recommendations as given in several resolutions of our assembly."

ACTA is something we wouldn't know about if it was for Wikileaks. Since it is a treaty, it can bypass a lot of the normal legal channels bills are considered under. Due to the general lack of information cause by the secrecy in has been negotiated under, the treaty's impact cannot be accurately estimated, but based n the leaks so far, there is nothing good about it, mirroring bills like PIPA and SOPA.

The Polish are in protest.
I'm Lacus. I'm fine as Lacus!
Pffh. Toilet paper? What do you think cats are for?

Offline S-U-P-E-R

  • My Butt is Ready :reggie;
  • Score: -63
    • View Profile
    • oh my god
Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #168 on: January 28, 2012, 06:37:52 AM »
Poland owns


Offline TJ Spyke

  • Ass
  • Score: -1350
    • View Profile
    • Spyke Shop
Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #169 on: January 28, 2012, 01:02:07 PM »
I find it fitting that Anonymous likes Guy Fawkes masks since Fawkes was a terrorist (he tried to blow up the Parliament building and participated in the plot to try and assassinate the king of England). I know that is a picture is not of Anonymous, just saying. It would be like wearing a mask with the image of Timothy McVeigh.

Also, ACTA was public news BEFORE Wikileaks posted something. Wikileaks first posted something on it in May 2008 (though it still didn't become more well known until earlier this year), but I found news articles on it as early as October 2007: http://www.outsourcing-pharma.com/Contract-Manufacturing/Global-pact-to-fight-fakes and http://newsblaze.com/story/20071024102942tsop.nb/topstory.html

And since it's a treaty, it itself is now law. It's just an agreement by the countries to create laws/policies/guidelines, etc.

There are still lots of good movies from Hollywood, it's just that there are so many more movies now that is just seems like it's mostly crap. It's like TV, there are still just as many good shows but there are many more channels now and this meant more crap too.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2012, 01:05:15 PM by TJ Spyke »
Help out a poor college student, buy video games and Blu-ray Discs at: http://astore.amazon.com/spyke-20

Offline UncleBob

  • (PATRON)
  • NWR Junior Ranger
  • Score: 98
    • View Profile
Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #170 on: January 28, 2012, 01:05:59 PM »
I find it fitting that Anonymous likes Guy Fawkes masks since Fawkes was a terrorist (he tried to blow up the Parliament building and participated in the plot to assassinate the current king of England).

I recall a story about a bunch of thugs that disguised themselves as natives, then went and ransacked their government's ships, sinking them and throwing all the property overboard in protest of some of their government's policies.

"Terrorism" can vary, based on which side of the politics you fall on.
Just some random guy on the internet who has a different opinion of games than you.

Offline TJ Spyke

  • Ass
  • Score: -1350
    • View Profile
    • Spyke Shop
Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #171 on: January 28, 2012, 01:10:56 PM »
There is a difference between throwing tea and stuff into the water, and trying to kill the king and members of parliament. That is never acceptable, and I would go into more modern terms but don't want to go too much into politics. McVeigh also did what he did because he disagreed with what the government did, the only difference is he succeeded in his act of terrorism while Fawkes did not.
Help out a poor college student, buy video games and Blu-ray Discs at: http://astore.amazon.com/spyke-20

Offline UncleBob

  • (PATRON)
  • NWR Junior Ranger
  • Score: 98
    • View Profile
Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #172 on: January 28, 2012, 01:17:20 PM »
Whoops - they didn't sink the ship... I thought they did.

Regardless, TJ - how many of the King's soldiers did these terrorists kill during their little revolt against their government?  Or did they just hold them down and tickle them?
Just some random guy on the internet who has a different opinion of games than you.

Offline Stogi

  • The Stratos You Should All Try To Be Like
  • Score: 18
    • View Profile
Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #173 on: January 28, 2012, 02:22:06 PM »
I keep reading comments about the lack of quality that comes out of Hollywood and the like.  While I don't disagree on a large portion of it - I do have to ask, if no one likes what they're producing, then why does anyone bother pirating their stuff?

It's hard to know if you'll like something without tasting it. Sure it may have your least favorite ingredient, and sure it doesn't smell too great either, but curiosity is a bitch.

This is how I pirate:

1. Movies that deserve to make money, I'll watch in IMAX, maybe even three or four times. This category included some great movies like the Dark Knight, Avatar, and How to Train Your Dragon.

Watching movies in IMAX only is important because it is an experience I can't replicate yet. And the less money I give to normal theaters, the more Hollywood will be forced to innovate; making IMAX theaters more prevalent at first and later bringing better and better technology to theater goers.

2. Movies that suck deserve to be pirated. It's a train of thought I have that most people don't agree with, but it's no doubt a form of capitalism. I'm voting with my dollars only when I deem it completely worth it. If I don't find it worth going to the theater for or renting, I'm going to download it and see if I was right. Now there are times where I watch a pirated movie and realize that it was absolutely worth my money and I go out and buy the DVD or BluRay (Boondock Saints falls into that category). But mostly, I'm proven right.

The only problem with my model is that the quality of my pirated movie is usual sub-par while it's in theaters so I have to make a gut decision whether to go watch a movie or not. My last decision was Immortals. That didn't turn out too well. Kinda wish I didn't vote for it.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2012, 02:23:55 PM by Stogi »
black fairy tales are better at sports

Offline UncleBob

  • (PATRON)
  • NWR Junior Ranger
  • Score: 98
    • View Profile
Re: Nintendo Wises Up
« Reply #174 on: January 28, 2012, 02:27:34 PM »
2. Movies that suck deserve to be pirated. It's a train of thought I have that most people don't agree with, but it's no doubt a form of capitalism.

Taking something without compensating the owners/creators of that something is no form of capitalism I'm aware of.
Just some random guy on the internet who has a different opinion of games than you.