Author Topic: RetroActive #19 - Killer 7 - Official Discussion Thread  (Read 13650 times)

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Offline Jonnyboy117

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RetroActive #19 - Killer 7 - Official Discussion Thread
« on: August 06, 2011, 06:20:45 PM »
This is the place to talk about Killer 7 and have a chance to have your comment read on an upcoming episode of Radio Free Nintendo.


***NOTE: Please do not use this space to celebrate or complain about the poll results. You can do that in the poll thread. This thread is for actual discussion of the game itself.***
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Offline Lithium

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Re: RetroActive #19 - Killer 7 - Official Discussion Thread
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2011, 07:39:20 PM »
sweet, I'll play this as soon as I get back from work (nightshift! yay)

Offline Ceric

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Re: RetroActive #19 - Killer 7 - Official Discussion Thread
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2011, 08:11:18 PM »
I have obtained the only copy I could find... and it was for PS2.  Probably start this later in the week.
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Offline Lithium

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Re: RetroActive #19 - Killer 7 - Official Discussion Thread
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2011, 09:50:36 AM »
Right after booting this game up I'm reminded at how fucking creepy this game is right off that bat, damn that laughter! But before I get started I want to bring your attention to this analysis of the Killer 7 plot because even though its spoilerific, lets be honest here: if you're curious to know what the plot is even about that's pretty much the only way its going to make sense (and you'll probably realize why most of us never even stood a chance at understanding the plot), even still SUDA 51 likes to mindfuck, which is why this game is so crazy to begin with.

Aside from the utterly insane vibe (moon!) that this game gives off which I find oddly appealing, this game sports a very unique artstyle, these two things got me to buy this game at first. I mean Iwazaru looks like a fetishist masochist in that get up, there's a Mexican who's special ability is to pick locks and jump really high and Con's smith's critical hit taunt is hilarious, espesally if you're in a room full of smiles and get sucessive crits anyways, the point is: this game is batshit crazy and I wouldn't have it any other way.

anyways, rest assured RFN crew as someone who voted for this game I'll hold up my end of the bargain and play along with you guys.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2011, 10:34:34 PM by Lithium »

Re: RetroActive #19 - Killer 7 - Official Discussion Thread
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2011, 03:52:56 PM »
Hey all, I have been listing to the podcast and creeping around the site for over a year now and I decided I should probably start participating.
I voted for Killer 7 because I have had it laying around my house for a while but I never really played it.  I bought it because I really enjoyed the No More Heroes franchise.  It seems the common thread of all Suda 51’s games is a focus on style to the point the gameplay often suffers.
Anyway my first impression of the game is that it is an old school adventure game masked behind layers of insanity. I like the overall style of the game but the shooting mechanic could use some work.
I will work on playing some more of this game and post more thoughts as they come to me. Thanks!

Re: RetroActive #19 - Killer 7 - Official Discussion Thread
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2011, 04:55:28 PM »
Ok, so my wife saw me playing Killer 7 and she asked me 'Why does it look like 1998 up in here?"

Offline Ceric

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Re: RetroActive #19 - Killer 7 - Official Discussion Thread
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2011, 05:10:14 PM »
Ok, so my wife saw me playing Killer 7 and she asked me 'Why does it look like 1998 up in here?"
lol
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Offline noname2200

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Re: RetroActive #19 - Killer 7 - Official Discussion Thread
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2011, 07:27:36 PM »
Ok, so my wife saw me playing Killer 7 and she asked me 'Why does it look like 1998 up in here?"

Your wife is awesome.

Anyways, I'm having trouble finding a copy of the Gamecube version (lost my PS2 a few weeks ago...) for a reasonable price. I hope I can find a copy soon.

Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: RetroActive #19 - Killer 7 - Official Discussion Thread
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2011, 07:33:25 PM »
GameStop has the GameCube version for $5.99: http://www.gamestop.com/gc/games/killer-7/33104
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Offline noname2200

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Re: RetroActive #19 - Killer 7 - Official Discussion Thread
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2011, 07:45:48 PM »
GameStop has the GameCube version for $5.99: http://www.gamestop.com/gc/games/killer-7/33104

Eeeeeexcellent...Thanks!

Offline leahsdad

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Re: RetroActive #19 - Killer 7 - Official Discussion Thread
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2011, 12:56:05 AM »
You know, the after the 15th time in as many minutes of gameplay that I heard Iwazaru say "We're in a tight spot!" I realized he wasn't talking about the situation in the game.  He's talking about trying to understand what the hell is going on.

I've only played about 20 minutes or so, up to what I'm guessing is the first boss in the parking garage.  No More Heroes seems tame compared to this game.

This will be an interesting experience.
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Offline Lithium

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Re: RetroActive #19 - Killer 7 - Official Discussion Thread
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2011, 05:30:51 AM »
The alternate reality of Killer 7

 the 2 sections below are copied from here I did not write any of the next 2 sections, but im posting it here for the sake of conversation and because this guy explains it better than I can all I did was try to remove spoilers and cut it down into digestible chunks.

The Yakumo

Quote
the Yakumo is a text which was created by 7 Japanese founders(politicians) in the past. The Yakumo (text) is said to have a power to change the world.

During his brief scene, in SUNSET, Toru Fukushima described the Yakumo as a policy that was created by the Union-Seven. The contents of the Yakumo are implied to be able to propel a nation toward total domination of the world--or, at least, primary control.  Further, this policy may have been developed strictly for Japanese execution, but (as Fukushima admits) Japan is too weak to implement it on her own.

Another historical departure might be useful, now. Japanese foreign policy was established early in the second millenium of the Christian calendar as "Hakko Ichiu." The ideology holds that the Japanese emperor is not merely the sovereign authority over the Japanese people, but over all people of all races. The self-righteousness of their cultural self-perception was manipulated easily during the Second World War by Japanese Emperor Hirohiko (also a high Shinto priest who very much believed in his own deity) into justification for all types of nationalistic aggression. Translated, the foreign policy aims to bring "all the eight corners of the world under the roof of Japan."

The U.N party

Quote
"When I first played Killer7, my impulse was to regard the phrase "U. N. Party" as indicative of the United Nations' presence in the fictional universe. However, the U. N. Party is not the United Nations.

During his brief scene at the start of SUNSET PART TWO, Kurahashi says that all of the U. N. Party's efforts will be destroyed, and that they have been in motion for "65 years" since Japan's American occupation at the end of World War II. Most historical resources seem to agree that Japan's struggle after World War II involved two major ideological forces: the liberal, individualistic ideas that wanted to depart from Japan's culturally historical means of thinking and acting-- and the conservative, collectivistic ideas that wanted to return the government to the control of an oligarchic shadow- government and the pursuit of Shinto and Bushido ideals.

we may conclude that the Yakumo--as a governmental policy developed by the Union-Seven- is enmeshed in conservative Japanese ideals. The U. N. Party comes from this cultural tradition. seems to be a renovated form of "Hakko Ichiu."

Further, this policy may have been developed strictly for Japanese execution, but (as Fukushima admits) Japan is too weak to implement it on her own.

 the 2 sections above are copied from here I did not write any of the last 2 sections, but im posting it here for the sake of conversation and because this guy explains it better than I can all I did was try to remove spoilers and cut it down into digestible chunks.

--------------------------------------

Sunset Part 1


the following is my interpretation of the plot so far, who knows i could be wrong but here's what makes sense to me:

At present The U.N party rules over Japan, Fukushima could either be the mediator between the Governing body of the U.N Party in Japan and U.N Party agents/spies in the United States. or He could be the Leader of the U.N Party I'm not 100% sure. Because of Fukushima's political clout he is the only one who can stage negotciations with the United States in order to convince them to intercept the ICBMs launched toward Japan. However Mills, the killer 7's contact with the USA has given them a contract to kill Toru Fukushima who resides in the Japanese resturaunt guarded by smiles.

Travis tells you that you are not the only one after Fukushima, he posits that the Liberal party of Japan sent somone over  in order to assinate Fukushima, as we will know later it's because the Liberal party of Japan wants to obtain the Yakumo from the U.N party

Toru Fukushima's importance:

As I have stated before, Fukushima holds the key to incepting those missles. The reason that Japan cant intercept the missles themselves is because as Travis tells you after you kill the duplicator smile:

Quote from: Travis
Smith, have a minute to share?  It could open your eyes. Japan doesn't have its own defense system.  It's survival is contingent on the United States.  But as far as the homeland is concerned, Japan is extra baggage.  Its usefulness as an ally is long past.  Straight up, it ain't worth saving, you see?  That's reality for you.  So, chief, you still gonna do it?  You know what is meant by fireworks?  They're missiles.  The explosion that occurs when missiles collide . . . . Well, sure, that's a beautiful sight indeed!  But you'll only see it if the defense system is activated
(fireworks a reference to first cutscene in Sunset)

What seems to be hapening is that Fukushima might hand over the Yakumo to the United States in exchange for saving Japan. If Fukushima dies before he can negociate with the United States it;s all over. The reason I think that the killer 7 was hired to kill Fukushina is to make sure Japan goes under, as travis says Japan isnt worth protecting anymore and the USA may be using this crisis to their advantage in order to get rid of dead weight. The Liberal party of Japan is simutaneously going after Fukushima in order to gain the Yakumo and use it for their own ends.

Quote from: Travis
Straight up, he's desperate.  Fukushima's only ace in the hole is the Yakumo.  The secret conference of the U.S.-Japan Territory Talks held at the Kaku Building tomorrow represents the time limit.  The Yakumo will determine whether the 'fireworks' launch.  It's Fukushima's offering to the gods.  What's your move, chief?  Kill him and sink Japan?  Or let him live and get the Yakumo.  The Yakumo is dangerous.  It will allow the United States to rule the world.  The course of humankind is in your hands, chief.

travis tells you that secret talks are to be held at the KAKU building (this will come up later on in killer 7)

"kill him and sink Japan or let him live and get the Yakumo" <--- this basically summarizes what Sunset part 1 is about.

When Harman meets Fukushima he talks about becoming an artechtect, I interpret that to mean that Fukushima looks to be a fervent nationalist bent on reliving the days of the Japanese empire by using the Yakumo. I bet the caller was Kun-Lan who probably recruited Fukushima to create the U.N party in order to realse utilization of the Yakumo. However he thinks that japan is too weak to do it on it's own
that's irrelevant now that Kisugi (who we now know was the assasin for the Liberal party) has killed Fukushima. It looks like the liberals don't know about the missles otherwise they wouldn't have killed him i bet.

Quote from: Travis
She's hottie, ain't she?  What a waste, though.  The last fruitless attempt at resistance by the Liberal Party.
Using a woman as a weapon?  That doesn't bode well for them.  The kind of thing only an inept party would resort to.  Japanese politicians are rotten to the core.  Smith, there's no sex discrimination here.  Don't hesitate.  Take her out like the rest of 'em!

^^^
Travis spells it out for you later.
I cant make out what Kisugi said because the cutscenes seem to be mixed poorly and the fire in the backround is louder than her voice.

Sunset: part 1 complete

---------------------

Random thoughts:

the Heaven Smile
Given the themes of the game the smiles are likely allusions to Japanese Kamikaze fighters rather than Islamic terrorists as one might be tempted to interpret

The Gameplay of Killer 7

I think SUDA 51 made the game on rails because he wanted to use cinematography techniques for the game's camera. He probably thought that on rails was the way to go to pull it off considering how the only other game I can think of at the top of my head that does this is the resident evil series, and we all know how bad the controls are in that game, that could be Shinji Mikami's advice since he worked on the resident evil games (Mikami Colaborated with SUDA 51 to make killer 7)

^
thats purely speculation on my part

to be honest i doubt the gameplay of killer 7 would be hated by some if it was realsed as a Wii on-rails shooter game instead of on the gamecube with a regular controller but the Wii didn't exist then obviously, which is why I'm a little dissapointed there was no Wii re-release like there was for Resi 4. I definately would have bought it haha

gameplay tips:

to get the odd engraving you have to use the water ring on the plant in the empty room with the painting (where all those rolling smiles are before harmans room)

when you get to the part with the fungshui map turn right, on the south house close the doors so that the red pheonix is shown and leave the rest open, at the east house close the doors so the azure dragon is showing, north house the black warrior (the turtle thing) at west house the lion.

make sure at every house you only close one of the doors and leave the rest open solve the puzzle to get the soul shell

-kid at the vinculum(sp?) gate: "The next monster is super huge in a certain spot!" <--lol
he tries to trick you by telling you to not hit him in the large spot but that's exactly what you should do, use Kaede to snipe the smile. I think if you miss he will teleport in front of you and you will die instantly.

-the boss for sunset part 1:

choose con smith and unload on her, whether or not you beat the boss depends on who lands more hits on each other when the timer ends. I'm not a huge fan of this boss since it's super simple but there you go.

-talk to Travis when you can, he;s basically the political comentator of the game and talks about the plot.

----
God damn that was alot of work, can't promise i'll go that indepth every time i post XD
« Last Edit: August 12, 2011, 11:10:03 AM by Lithium »

Offline Soren

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Re: RetroActive #19 - Killer 7 - Official Discussion Thread
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2011, 07:13:19 AM »
"We're in a tight spot" indeed, sir.

The shooting mechanic is so clumsy, it somewhat ruins the joy you would have in killing all of the Heaven Smile. Hitting their weak spot is a thrill, but the aiming is so spotty it's frustrating.
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Offline leahsdad

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Re: RetroActive #19 - Killer 7 - Official Discussion Thread
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2011, 12:14:46 PM »
Quote
Hitting their weak spot is a thrill, but the aiming is so spotty it's frustrating.




Excuse me if I'm asking questions that everyone already know the answers to, but I've decided to go into this game as blind as possible.  I found a review written by Cassamasina back in the day, but after reading 1 paragraph I closed it, because I want to go into this fresh.


With that said, I'm guessing the weak spot is the white/yellowish bubbly growth?  Man, those are hard to hit.  And it's not because the target's too small or I suck at these games (My aiming is quite good, to be honest, honed by years of FPS's).  The aiming on this game sucks though.  I'm glad it wasn't just me.
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Oh yeah, I know I have 2 sealed copies of that game.   1 is for trading.  But people who collect Amiibos?  They really have a problem!

Offline Lithium

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Re: RetroActive #19 - Killer 7 - Official Discussion Thread
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2011, 12:50:38 PM »
Power: Increases the power of your shots,
Speed: Increases the speed (running, reloading, firing) of the character,

Waver:
Increases the stability of your aiming (very important for Kaede)
Critical: Increases the likelihood of critical weakspot shots

Invisible:(Kevin only): Increases the time you can stay invisible from about 15 seconds to about 40 seconds in 5 second increments.
Range: (Mask only): Increases the effective range of Masks grenade launchers.

You guys will probably want to put all of your Thick blood to upgrading Critical and Waver then.

You'll get Thick blood by getting critical hits, yeah the weakspot is the yellow/white growth thing, you can upgrade your characters by depositing thick blood to the surgeon in the television in Harman's room. but after you put in X amount of blood the machine will break. It will also break if you leave the level as well so if you're interested in getting as much blood as possible in the stage make sure you break it before the stage ends.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2011, 12:59:32 PM by Lithium »

Offline Fatty The Hutt

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Re: RetroActive #19 - Killer 7 - Official Discussion Thread
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2011, 02:47:24 PM »
Ok, so my wife saw me playing Killer 7 and she asked me 'Why does it look like 1998 up in here?"
Ahahahahahaha!  ;D That's awesome!
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Offline Mop it up

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Re: RetroActive #19 - Killer 7 - Official Discussion Thread
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2011, 08:21:31 PM »
Looks like this game doesn't show up on eBay often, so it may be difficult to get a copy of it. How long will this discussion be open for?

Offline marty

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Re: RetroActive #19 - Killer 7 - Official Discussion Thread
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2011, 08:55:04 PM »
If someone wants to paypal me for an envelope and shipping charges, I'll gladly send you my copy. 

Offline Jonnyboy117

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Re: RetroActive #19 - Killer 7 - Official Discussion Thread
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2011, 10:21:50 PM »
If you're a GameFly member, they have the GC version (low availability) and PS2 version (available now) for rent.
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Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: RetroActive #19 - Killer 7 - Official Discussion Thread
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2011, 10:54:42 PM »
LOL, guess GameStop only had a few copies of the GCN version since it was available when I posted the link but is now out. They still have the PS2 version for $4.99 used or $9.99 new (http://www.gamestop.com/ps2/games/killer-7/33106) though.
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Offline Olimar77

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Re: RetroActive #19 - Killer 7 - Official Discussion Thread
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2011, 05:26:41 AM »
I bought my copy through Glyde on Sunday night. I just checked their website and there are copies still available. It usually takes from 5 to 7 days to receive, though. I'm looking forward to playing.

Offline Lithium

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Re: RetroActive #19 - Killer 7 - Official Discussion Thread
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2011, 06:50:43 AM »
Just finished Sunset part 2, I was going to do another epic post but considering the work/conservation ratio of my last post it isn't worth it haha

I'm far too lazy to write something like that every time. However at least it got across the reason that I like this game (aside from the utter insanity of it all): the political intrigue. That stuff is awesome and we don't see enough of that in videogames. Another reason why I seem to be in the minority (at least in these forums) in liking this game is because it's the one of a handful of non-indie games I can think of that has the guts to try something way out there. Yahtzee describes this better in a way only Yahtzee can in his no more heroes review.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2011, 03:48:47 PM by Lithium »

Offline oohhboy

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Re: RetroActive #19 - Killer 7 - Official Discussion Thread
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2011, 09:22:38 AM »
If there is someone in Auckland who wants to play Killer 7, I would be happy to loan out my copy to them. However like the majority of my GC games, it is US NTSC and unless you have and Japanese/American cube/older Wii, you will need freeloader.

If you have a 3DS game to counter-loan that is not Shadow Wars, all the better.

PM me to make arrangements.
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Offline KDR_11k

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Re: RetroActive #19 - Killer 7 - Official Discussion Thread
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2011, 01:05:20 PM »
Instead of digging Killer 7 out again I bought a cheap copy of Flower Sun and Rain but since that's Suda51 too it counts, right?


As for deciphering plots, I'm having my share of that with EYE at the moment, made all the better as nobody has found the "real ending" to the game yet.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2011, 01:07:41 PM by KDR_11k »

Offline rebonack

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Re: RetroActive #19 - Killer 7 - Official Discussion Thread
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2011, 05:37:43 PM »
I didn't vote for Killer7 (in fact I didn't vote at all, since I've just registered), but I was hoping it would win. I've owned the game for years now, and never played further than the first level, so I'm looking forward to playing along with you guys.

Since Jonny was worried that people who voted for Killer7 wouldn't play along, can I cancel one of them out?