Topic: Super Smash Bros. for WiiU (& 3DS)

[Oblivion]

The Last of Us is another recent success in both the multiplayer and story department.

[Mop it up]

And honestly, the same ol' multiplayer gets really tiresome after a while, and sometimes just don't want to deal with other people and their issues.

This one's simple: Play a different game!

[broodwars]

The Last of Us is another recent success in both the multiplayer and story department.

As I hope to discover as soon as my copy of Last of Us manages to find its way out of the unholy nexus that apparently is Kentucky, according to the tracking info (seriously, the thing just sat in a Kentucky carrier office for about 24 hours).

[Spak-Spang]

To each his own I guess.  When Melee came out, the Adventure mode and classic modes were my most played modes.  I loved running through the modes by myself. 

I would love to see those modes come back with a vengeance.  Subspace was wrong because they had stupid enemies nobody carried about and felt uninteresting.  Adventure mode is simple.  Create simple side scrolling levels based on each game universes world.  Try to give each game universes world a different challenge with the games.  Some games could have overlapping themes.  For examples:

Mega Man, Metroid themes could be based on 2D sides scrolling shooting action.  Characters could only jump and shoot.  Limiting the moves of the characters can give variety to the levels.  Mega Man levels only give characters one jump, but Metroid levels give you 2 jumps and focused on exploration.

Mario, Donkey Kong, and Kirby levels are based on platforming, and all attacks are gone, except jumping.  Then you have to get power ups from those worlds.  Kirby levels could have a triple jump mechanic adding to make them feel different.

F-Zero and Star Fox could be racing levels with Environmental hazards to deal with.  Like the cars racing through...and you have to get on the correct path.  This could create an interesting experience.

So you can see, an Adventure mode trying to capture the themes and play styles of the original games could be fun. 

[NWR_insanolord]

Multiplayer should certainly be the focus of development, but it would be nice if they could also manage to improve upon the single player modes. The Subspace Emissary was a clusterfuck, but I liked a lot of the ideas they had with the adventure mode in Melee. Going more in that direction and expanding on those concepts could produce something really great.

[BlackNMild2k1]

E3 Trailer

Nintendo Developer Direct

Gameplay: Sakurai as Mega man vs Mario

[Sarail]

So I'm trying to start a Donkey Kong with Barrel Roll movement.

Can anyone and everyone else join in and draw or text out something like this?

Not only do I want DK's iconic barrel roll move, I really want to see if Sakurai goes for it with enough support behind it.

Anyone in? Bustin, Phish, Racht and Shayman can all draw very well!
If you do, post in the actual Smash Brothers Miiverse board.

By the way Phisfood lost his password and says password recovery isn't working for him.

I'm going to get some new drawings going this next week. So hang tight. Plan on bombarding the new Smash Miiverse community.

[Mop it up]

It'd probably be best if the Wii U version focused on multiplayer and the 3DS version on single player, as that's likely the most common way people will play each version.

[BranDonk Kong]

I like adventure mode.

[Arbok]

Since Smash Balls appear to be back, I wonder what MM's would be.. shouldn't be another super charged shot (ala Samus) so I was thinking.. Rush Power Adaptor? Am I the only one that played MM6 and 7?? I feel like a rush/beat/auto super combo is too played out.

Yellow Devil? He was shown during the character trailer. Could be a game boss, but could also be the character's smash ball move.

[broodwars]

Since Smash Balls appear to be back, I wonder what MM's would be.. shouldn't be another super charged shot (ala Samus) so I was thinking.. Rush Power Adaptor? Am I the only one that played MM6 and 7?? I feel like a rush/beat/auto super combo is too played out.

Yellow Devil? He was shown during the character trailer. Could be a game boss, but could also be the character's smash ball move.

I imagine that Mega Man's Final Smash would be a sequence of attacks using every one of Mega Man's Boss Powers, but amp-ed up.

[Khushrenada]

My experience with Super Smash Bros. is usually a whole lot more single player than multiplayer. For me, it is all about unlocking everything and enjoying all the surprises of different kinds of trophies and other past Nintendo reminders. As such, I usually learn to play the characters in a such way that is beneficial to beating the events and other challenge modes of the game. But then when I play multiplayer, I'm pretty terrible at it.

I appreciate the ambition that was shown in making the subspace emissary and trying to add a story to the game for single play but it was all too disjointed and a bit repatative. I think the adventure mode in Melee was closer to being on the right track for how a single player segment could be done but when I try to think of how to make a single player mode work for Smash Bros., I find I can not think of any good idea for what to do. It's an odd beast.

[Luigi Dude]

I appreciate the ambition that was shown in making the subspace emissary and trying to add a story to the game for single play but it was all too disjointed and a bit repatative. I think the adventure mode in Melee was closer to being on the right track for how a single player segment could be done but when I try to think of how to make a single player mode work for Smash Bros., I find I can not think of any good idea for what to do. It's an odd beast.

The best idea for a single player to work is for Sakurai to design it like he designed Kirby Super Star.  Several shorter gameplay modes that are different from each other, but when combined together can create a longer experience.  This type of design would fit Smash Bros so much better as well.

Anyone who's played Kirby Super Star should know what I'm talking about.  Have one mode that's a simple platforming type like Spring Breeze that's short and easy for anyone to play.  Have another mode like Gourmet Race where every level is a race of some kind.  Do another like The Great Cave Offensive that's a Metroid style exploration game with a ton of trophies and CD's to find.  Another can be like Revenge of the Meta Knight were it's now more action based with lots of fighting now.  Then finally do a Milky Way Wishes mode where it takes pieces from all the previous modes and combines them for an epic ending.

Seriously, something like that with various Nintendo themed levels in each mode, and enemies and bosses from different Nintendo series would be perfect for Smash Bros.  Good way to give a good sized single player experience with lots of variety, without making it one long mode of doing the same thing over and over again like the Subspace Emissary was.

[pokepal148]

tbh give subspace all of the crap you want it got one thing right

it exposed you to characters you normally wouldn't touch with an 18 foot long pole...

theres a reason why i mained the Pokemon Trainer

[Mop it up]

One major problem with the SSE is that it was designed to be completed by all characters, which greatly limited the possibilities, and this will be an issue with any type of 1P mode they try to create. The best course of action would be to make it like the old Break The Targets, and have stages unique to each character that can play to the strengths and weaknesses of each one and require the use of their skills and abilities. Melee's adventure mode length would be perfect for this idea. The only problem here is that, if they want to have lots of characters, that's way too much work to create individual adventures for each character.

I just can't see a way to make the 1P content of Smash Brothers be up to the quality of the multiplayer, and this is why I think they shouldn't even bother. The modes already in (except adventure) are good enough for me, especially now that they offer co-op.

[pokepal148]

To each his own I guess.  When Melee came out, the Adventure mode and classic modes were my most played modes.  I loved running through the modes by myself. 

I would love to see those modes come back with a vengeance.  Subspace was wrong because they had stupid enemies nobody carried about and felt uninteresting.  Adventure mode is simple.  Create simple side scrolling levels based on each game universes world.  Try to give each game universes world a different challenge with the games.  Some games could have overlapping themes.  For examples:

Mega Man, Metroid themes could be based on 2D sides scrolling shooting action.  Characters could only jump and shoot.  Limiting the moves of the characters can give variety to the levels.  Mega Man levels only give characters one jump, but Metroid levels give you 2 jumps and focused on exploration.

Mario, Donkey Kong, and Kirby levels are based on platforming, and all attacks are gone, except jumping.  Then you have to get power ups from those worlds.  Kirby levels could have a triple jump mechanic adding to make them feel different.

F-Zero and Star Fox could be racing levels with Environmental hazards to deal with.  Like the cars racing through...and you have to get on the correct path.  This could create an interesting experience.

So you can see, an Adventure mode trying to capture the themes and play styles of the original games could be fun. 

i feel like if it was set up more like the target test in melee it would be great.

[Khushrenada]

I appreciate the ambition that was shown in making the subspace emissary and trying to add a story to the game for single play but it was all too disjointed and a bit repatative. I think the adventure mode in Melee was closer to being on the right track for how a single player segment could be done but when I try to think of how to make a single player mode work for Smash Bros., I find I can not think of any good idea for what to do. It's an odd beast.

The best idea for a single player to work is for Sakurai to design it like he designed Kirby Super Star.  Several shorter gameplay modes that are different from each other, but when combined together can create a longer experience.  This type of design would fit Smash Bros so much better as well.

Anyone who's played Kirby Super Star should know what I'm talking about.  Have one mode that's a simple platforming type like Spring Breeze that's short and easy for anyone to play.  Have another mode like Gourmet Race where every level is a race of some kind.  Do another like The Great Cave Offensive that's a Metroid style exploration game with a ton of trophies and CD's to find.  Another can be like Revenge of the Meta Knight were it's now more action based with lots of fighting now.  Then finally do a Milky Way Wishes mode where it takes pieces from all the previous modes and combines them for an epic ending.

Seriously, something like that with various Nintendo themed levels in each mode, and enemies and bosses from different Nintendo series would be perfect for Smash Bros.  Good way to give a good sized single player experience with lots of variety, without making it one long mode of doing the same thing over and over again like the Subspace Emissary was.

Actually, this idea has a lot of merit. I'm thinking especially in the Milky Way Wishes part. Every franchise would have their own planet. Planet Mario, Planet Zelda, Planet Mega Man, etc. And they could have a couple sidescrolling levels or some type of adventuring leading up to any stages in the game for those characters on which you would battle them much like battling the boss of the planet in KSS. Then at the end, you would have picked up some items or acquired a way to go to the final destination planet to fight Crazy Hand, Master Hand or any other final boss they might think up.

Another idea that occured to me is what you could achieve by doing this. In the past single player mode was a way to unlock characters or stages or trophies. But what if they took a page out of the F-Zero GX playbook and added quick little video clips. Much like how if you beat an Expert GP with any racer you would unlock a quick little usually comedic video starring that racer, I think that would be a great new addition to the Smash Bros. achievement stuff. You have a trophy room and now a video room. It would offer another great bit of fan service.

[Mop it up]

"Fan service." There's that term again. I'm a little confused by it, and I often see the little extras and cameos like trophies, stickers, etc. called "fan service." Is this stuff really what fans want to see? Little trinkets are preferable to seeing this stuff as playable characters and stages? I'm a fan of many Nintendo franchises, and I don't want any of that kind of fluff, all I want are playable characters and stages. Am I alone in this?

[Sarail]

Nope. I'm with you, Mop. I want a big roster with lots and lots of stages to play around in. All of that extra stuff is nice, but I want the next Smash to bring the meat and potatoes - bigger roster than Brawl and more stages than the previous game entries. Actually, I'd bring back EVERY previous stage, and have them listed under a "Classics" header in stage selection.

For the love of jeebus...just GIVE ME FREAKING MIKE JONES.

[Shorty McNostril]

108 screenshots.

http://www.kotaku.com.au/2013/06/108-terrific-shots-of-super-smash-bros-on-wii-u/

[Luigi Dude]

"Fan service." There's that term again. I'm a little confused by it, and I often see the little extras and cameos like trophies, stickers, etc. called "fan service." Is this stuff really what fans want to see? Little trinkets are preferable to seeing this stuff as playable characters and stages? I'm a fan of many Nintendo franchises, and I don't want any of that kind of fluff, all I want are playable characters and stages. Am I alone in this?

Stickers and Trophies aren't stopping more characters and stages from being made.  They're nothing more then nice extra's for people to enjoy and if you don't like them then don't bother trying to collect them.  Seriously, unlike what some of you think, they're not taking away resources from the rest of the game.  Hell, most of the trophies in Brawl were character models that were copied and pasted from various Gamecube games and didn't require the Brawl team to create ****.

This isn't an indie game being made by 5 newcomers on a low budget with limited resources.  This is a 100+ dev team with lots of experiences and a huge budget.  Having a few people work on the extra bits isn't going to effect the character and stage development when they still have plenty of people to handle those.

[Mop it up]

Stickers and Trophies aren't stopping more characters and stages from being made.

Except that I wasn't talking about only trophies and stickers, and I was also including Assist Trophies under trophies. I'm talking about pretty much everything that isn't characters and stages, such as the videos that Khushrenada mentioned. This stuff definitely does use up a lot of resources.

[Luigi Dude]

Except that I wasn't talking about only trophies and stickers, and I was also including Assist Trophies under trophies. I'm talking about pretty much everything that isn't characters and stages, such as the videos that Khushrenada mentioned. This stuff definitely does use up a lot of resources.

Considering the Assist Trophies have worse graphics, limited animations compared to playable characters and usually do one attack, I doubt they took away resources either.  They're no different then the Pokemon, quickly thrown together characters to be summoned in battle.  This is why they look bad compared to the playable characters because not much effort is put into them.  Hardly anything that will prevent a real playable character from being added.

And on the issue of video's, those are usually outsourced to a separate animation studio anyway, so they wouldn't effect the main team in any shape or form.  The example Khushrenada used was F-Zero GX and the video's mentioned were made by 5 different studio's.

http://www.mobygames.com/game/gamecube/f-zero-gx/credits

Movie Production:     Avant Inc., Digital Media Lab Inc., Wilco Dream Studio Inc., Nice+Day Inc., Nova Inc.


So if Smash Bros had video's like that, they'd be done by separate studio's as well.

[Mop it up]

I mostly just don't like Assist Trophies, the PokéBall item is plenty for that concept. But every little thing adds up.

And resources = money. The cutscenes in Brawl were definitely expensive, money that could have been spent on more character and stage designers. So who makes the extra stuff is irrelevant. But the question posed was a form of "What do fans want to see?", and everyone has their own wants for a game like this.

[Khushrenada]

I'm up for more characters and stages provided they are worthwhile. And while I recognize there are differences to Fox, Falco and Wolf, their moves all feel the same and they just unimaginative to me. There's a greater difference in the moves between Kirby, Metaknight and King Dedede for example. And as well, does anyone like stages that move ala Icicle Mountain in Melee or Donkey Kong Jungle Beat's level in Brawl? So, if we get more stages like that, then I wouldn't consider that a benefit. I'd rather it be smaller to weed out the redundancies in characters or undesired stages than making it bigger with new stuff that won't be used or isn't that unique.