Topic: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]

[Adrock]

Satisfied? That would be epic boner time for all.

This and other topics ask what Nintendo should do with their online platform. So, yes, they SHOULD go after and aspire to be the best (Valve's Steam). Personally, as long as the platform was competent and easy to use, even if it wasn't the absolute "best," I'd be "satisfied."

[Stogi]

Not going to lie, but I haven't read a thing other than the first post. So yeah...

I think a 'Facebook' type online UI would be the slickest. Simply the ability to add friends that easy and see what they are doing through a live blog like screen. It could update your friends about what games you are about to play and allow you to join them.  Also, being able to type-chat and video-chat with anyone not playing at the moment would be sweet.

[Snake-Arms]

Satisfied? That would be epic boner time for all.

This and other topics ask what Nintendo should do with their online platform. So, yes, they SHOULD go after and aspire to be the best (Valve's Steam). Personally, as long as the platform was competent and easy to use, even if it wasn't the absolute "best," I'd be "satisfied."

I feel the same way.  Hell, all I really want is an account based system a la PSN/Live for my online fun.  All that extra crap like the VC, demos, video etc is nice but I would gladly trade that for a smooth online gaming experience.

[BlackNMild2k1]

WiiU (&3DS) Online closer to XBL/PSN
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-06-13-wii-u-3ds-online-closer-to-psn-xbl
I hope the comment on friend codes is referring to 3DS and not WiiU...

Lowe pointed to the 3DS's refined online set-up as an indication of where Nintendo's aspirations lie for Wii U.

"If you look at 3DS and the online of that you'll get an understanding of where we're going with Wii U and we're taking that even further.

"We can't talk about the details yet as Mr Iwata will announce those slightly later. But with the online of 3DS it's obviously a massive leap on from where we were with DSi and DSi XL. It's smooth, robust, it doesn't drop in and out.

"The friend code system has also been refined. It still exists but in the same way that you'd need to pair up with friends on PSN or Xbox live. Now it's much closer to that kind of online gaming experience than what it was before.

"We always try and strike a balance. Because we do have more younger consumers than any other hardware manufacturer or games brand we need to protect them while also making it as accessible as possible for the more active and hardcore consumers to go online.

He also reaffirmed comments from CEO Satoru Iwata earlier this year that Nintendo has brought in outside help to remedy its lack of internal online expertise.

"With Wii U I think that we've already hinted that we're looking at getting people in that know and understand online gaming as it's something that perhaps we've struggled with in the past."

I sincerely hope that some of those people in the know are on loan from Valve & Steamworks.
If there is one thing Nintendo needs to get right, it's the online approach. Well, actually they need to get everything right, but online needs to be addressed as a major concern as they need to lure people off of PSN & XBL. There is no better way than to promise them a Steam like experience (software sales and all).

[ThePerm]

Heres what will make Wii U online the best thing ever


No Friend Codes(unless it was some sort of parental setting)
Cross Game Chat
NetFLix
Web Browser
Shopping Channel
A la Carte Television Service (what....Wii Channel menu to the next level)

[Adrock]

"We always try and strike a balance. Because we do have more younger consumers than any other hardware manufacturer or games brand we need to protect them while also making it as accessible as possible for the more active and hardcore consumers to go online."

No, you really don't. It's not Nintendo's responsibility to play babysitter or raise other people's children. People like to pass the buck and relinquish blame on companies like Nintendo or Google or Facebook. In the end, they're just bad parents. They're responsible for what comes in and out of their houses.

I know when Nintendo says, "we need to protect younger consumers," they really mean, "we're trying not to get sued." Still, they'll get sued anyway because you can just about sue anyone for anything any number of times (i.e. the Winklevii have sued Facebook and Mark Zuckerburg like 4869 times even after accepting settlements) but chances are those cases will get thrown out. Nintendo needs to write good warnings and have their legal team look over them with an even keener eye. Additionally, we have a rating system (that admittedly needs to be revamped) and we have parental controls. Nintendo shouldn't have to feel obligated to alter their strategy and online platform.

[ThePerm]

well, maybe the legitimately care about children. Its one thing to worry about getting sued, its another to actually care. One could make the argument that Nintendo are not the parents of the children; well the children's parents are proven failures anyhow. So, can you blame them? If friend codes are to return, it should be some sort of setting. Like a protected mode that requires a parental password. Otherwise its not active.

[Stogi]

No, it should be the other way around. It should be activated unless you are a parent and deactivate it.

EDIT: But honestly, like I mentioned before, I see people in the same household having different profiles. Whether that means they have access to an account that can buy VC games or play 'M' rated games or surf netflix is up to each user. It could be password protected too.

[Kairon]

"We always try and strike a balance. Because we do have more younger consumers than any other hardware manufacturer or games brand we need to protect them while also making it as accessible as possible for the more active and hardcore consumers to go online."

No, you really don't. It's not Nintendo's responsibility to play babysitter or raise other people's children. People like to pass the buck and relinquish blame on companies like Nintendo or Google or Facebook. In the end, they're just bad parents. They're responsible for what comes in and out of their houses.

I know when Nintendo says, "we need to protect younger consumers," they really mean, "we're trying not to get sued." Still, they'll get sued anyway because you can just about sue anyone for anything any number of times (i.e. the Winklevii have sued Facebook and Mark Zuckerburg like 4869 times even after accepting settlements) but chances are those cases will get thrown out. Nintendo needs to write good warnings and have their legal team look over them with an even keener eye. Additionally, we have a rating system (that admittedly needs to be revamped) and we have parental controls. Nintendo shouldn't have to feel obligated to alter their strategy and online platform.

They're not obligated. But they're definitely incentivized by the image they have built with parents, a very profitable one no doubt. It's more than liability, and COPPA lawsuits. It's about the almost immeasurable worth of having a parent not bat an eye when buying their child a Nintendo game or system.

... I mean, I'd personally like a frictionless online experience too! But it DOES have to be balanced against a desire to uphold and protect the image that Nintendo has always projected of being family-friendly, right out-of-the-box.

After all, three-year old children play Nintendo systems. I know. I was one of them.

[Adrock]

To be fair, I said they feel obligated.

It begins and ends with the parents. Nintendo can put all of these roadblocks on their own platform, but unsupervised and unbridled internet access on devices Nintendo has no control over like a PC or smartphone supplants Nintendo's security measures quite easily (yes, I've seen some 7-8 year olds with smartphones). For parents who actually give a ****, they'll set the parental controls, they'll read the fine print, and even check up on what their kids are doing. All good things. They don't need Nintendo to be their watchdog though, admittedly, it's nice to have that extra measure in place. Alternatively, there are parents who don't give a ****, don't set the parents controls, and don't pay attention to anything until something bad happens at which point they look to see who they can transfer the blame to. Nintendo can't stop negligence. Something like Friend Codes is like an impenetrable fortress with a revolving door and a bright neon sign.

These problems aren't running rampant on competing platforms so I have to wonder if Nintendo sees a problem or if they're inventing a solution for a problem that doen't exist or is at least far less severe. Granted, the age of PS3/360 users tend to skew older, but younger players still exist on those consoles. For all the dipshit kids who all claim to have had sex with my mother and apparently are aware of my supposed latent homosexuality, I wonder what the **** they're doing even playing these games anyway. Who is watching them? No one. That's why Nintendo's safety measures only serve to annoy the people it shouldn't be annoying. For people who take safety seriously, they don't need these measures though, again, certainly nice to have. For the people who don't, the extra measures are undermined by their own negligence and irresponsibility.

No, it should be the other way around. It should be activated unless you are a parent and deactivate it.

I agree. If it's not already activated, I feel like fewer people are going to activate it.

I feel like the best way to balance accessibility and safety is by providing more specific options and requiring parental approval through password protection for literally everything. And they should all be set to the highest security setting by default. Nintendo's online platform should seem like it resembles the current set-up prior to toggling the options. Examples:

1. Voicechat: on/off/friends only
2. Display online ID: on/off/friends only
3. Accept friend request: with password/without password
4. Accept messages: on/off/friends only/with permission

And so on. They can even get even more specific than that. It still won't stop negligence because nothing can unless one makes the conscious effort to start caring, but it's there for everyone who wants it to be there and can be shut off for everyone else.

[Kairon]

I like that formula. Start the thing off at the most restrictive level of privacy and safety possible. Let users deactivate these barriers if they want, possibly even making this deactivation method a strict, hardcore-adult-required step. But once deactivated, let it remember it's latest settings, and toggle on or off with a simple settings change.

[UltimatePartyBear]

I feel like the best way to balance accessibility and safety is by providing more specific options and requiring parental approval through password protection for literally everything. And they should all be set to the highest security setting by default. Nintendo's online platform should seem like it resembles the current set-up prior to toggling the options. Examples:

1. Voicechat: on/off/friends only
2. Display online ID: on/off/friends only
3. Accept friend request: with password/without password
4. Accept messages: on/off/friends only/with permission

And so on. They can even get even more specific than that. It still won't stop negligence because nothing can unless one makes the conscious effort to start caring, but it's there for everyone who wants it to be there and can be shut off for everyone else.

I came here to say something a lot like that.  Friend codes do nothing to protect kids because they can simply swap codes on message boards like this one.  If parental supervision of younglings' online activities is a serious goal, then kids shouldn't be able to circumvent the system.  There should be a password protected master account on the console, and then kids have their own accounts, with whatever restrictions their parents feel are appropriate.  Adding a friend should by default require permission from the master account.

Meanwhile, us adult gamers benefit because having multiple accounts per system is closely related to accounts not being tied to a specific system.  At the very least, being able to use your account on another console as a guest should be possible so you can have access to games, DLC, and even saves.  I've taken Guitar Hero to a friend's house several times, but I can't take any of my downloaded songs with me, and that's kind of annoying when some of my favorite songs aren't on the disc.  The benefits to word of mouth advertising should be obvious enough for anyone to see.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Sounds like you want some cloud saving features to be built in to the Nintendo ON.

[Chozo Ghost]

I don't like the idea of cloud stuff because the clouds are actually Zeppelins, and they are easy to be shot down by hackers. It would be the digital era equivalent of the Hindenberg disaster.

[Stogi]

* applauds*

[UltimatePartyBear]

Sounds like you want some cloud saving features to be built in to the Nintendo ON.

I have everything unlocked in Brawl.
I take it to a friend's house.
Nothing is unlocked there.

I don't think you can even copy the save data to an SD card.  I think copying is not allowed if online ID stuff is in the save data, which is something else that should be taken care of with a global friend list.

The cloud is the answer.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Iwata: WiiU to utilize Voice Chat & Social Networking
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/307330/news/wii-u-online-environment-to-take-advantage-of-voice-chat-social-networking-features/

"... What I have come to feel lately is that the idea of saying, 'we are going to create this style of online structure and that we would like you, the developers, to fit into the online structure that we are creating' is perhaps already out-of-date.

"So, for example with the question of VoIP, I think then what we would like to do is work with them on how to enable them to do that. But, what we're not going to do is to consider as prerequisite conditions that every game includes features like that because obviously there are some developers who may not want to do that.

"As for social networks, after examining the penetration and adoption rate of social networking services like Facebook, etc., we've come to the conclusion that we are no longer in a period where we cannot have any connection at all with social networking services."

 "I think that once you hear what we'll have to say, you'll feel that Nintendo has a policy of adapting itself to changes in the network environment in a flexible fashion rather than the one of sticking to a rigid mechanism, or perhaps you'll notice that we have found ways to take advantage of these types of features like VoIP and social networking, where our systems have been seen as being weak in the past."

So... we will have voice chat... but not cross game voice chat? Also it might not be supported in every game, but that is left up to the developer.


I hope there are options for ingame and cross game chat. I don't think it has to be strictly one or the other.


I'm not really sure what Facebook and Twitter integration is gonna be in a console environment... Facebook log-in? face book friends list? facebook chat? Auto twitter update on game achievements, game being played and gamer status?


But i'm glad Nintendo is getting out of their bubble and doing something with their online service where everyone has input and the service will evolve from there. As that "here is our idea for online.... deal with it" approach was obviously not working out so well for anybody involved.

[Caterkiller]

Soon the days where I have to run to the computer, get in the chat room, get info about what stage or rules, and run back to the wii will be over.

[Adrock]

It's fair to leave it up to the developer though I can't imagine anyone but Nintendo opting out of including voice chat. This seems like a very anti-Nintendo thing to do. Normally, they would tell 3rd parties, "This is how we're doing things. Join us or GTFO." Still, I almost feel like a lot of developers wouldn't mind being "forced" to include voice chat because they were planning on including it anyway. It's 2011 after all.

[UltimatePartyBear]

The voice chat thing reminds me of something Tycho at Penny Arcade complained about when Microsoft announced voice chat built into the OS so you could use it in any game.  There was a game (maybe Chromehounds?) that featured enabling voice chat as part of the gameplay.  You had to build and defend communication towers to extend radio range or something to that effect.  Microsoft's new feature destroyed that entire facet of the experience.

On the other hand, there should definitely be a way to voice chat outside of the games, and if players decided to start up a game that supported voice chat, it would be nice if the system could automatically move them into the game's chat and back again.  That might be too difficult, but it would adequately mirror cross-game chat running in the background while still giving developers plenty of freedom to experiment.

[Stogi]

What's so useful about cross-game chat? Isn't the point of chat to talk to players you are playing with and not calling your buddies?

[bustin98]

Say I'm playing a game, and you're playing a game, and I'm done playing but want to do some multiplayer. I can hit you up and say 'Hey, want to do some co-op or deathmatch?' The conversation can start while we are in seperate games, and continue into the new game.

I think its backwards thinking of Nintendo to not include VoIP as part of the OS. Maybe its because they aren't talented enough to create a fully featured OS, as they concentrate on games, not really the environment beyond the hardware.

Or maybe the trademark sea that needs to be navigated relating to the technology is too much, licensing fees too great. I would pay a fee like I pay Microsoft for a full featured system. Users who don't pay can still play online, just without chat unless implemented by the game.

[ShyGuy]

It seems probably that the EA origin service is coming over to the Wii U. www.origin.com

[BlackNMild2k1]

What if I was playing Super Mario Universe and you were on the WiiU Internet browser(or a different single player game). We could still have a conversation even though I was currently in a game and you weren't (in the same game).

Or if we were both watching the same movie at the same time. (MFT WiiU Netflix edition) Now you could MST3000 that movie real time with multiple people all at the same time.

Maybe one is in a game and the other is just watching TV with the uMote in the dock and the 2 of you are chatting. Or maybe you were in a group chat and decided to play a little Plants vs Zombies while you talk. No reason the conversation should end just because I decided to multi-task.

There are plenty of uses.


edit: seems I was beaten by Bustin.


@ Bustin, atleast Nintendo's new system will be able to update it's features if 3DS is anything to go by. So a VoIP included system wide could be added at a later date and it shouldn't affect any game that was programmed differently.

[UltimatePartyBear]

It seems probably that the EA origin service is coming over to the Wii U. www.origin.com

After what EA did to the Origin responsible for Ultima and Wing Commander, seeing them using that name like that just stings.