Topic: Wii U - e3 is over... now what?

[noname2200]

ā€œOnce consumers have a notion that ā€˜this system is not for usā€™, we have learned that it is extremely difficult to change their perceptions later,ā€ said Iwata.

Logically, can't this apply to either of the audiences they're outlining?

[Ian Sane]

Those are some very encouraging comments from Iwata.  I find it's common for Nintendo to get it partially right but there is always some groan-worthy statement mixed in that exposes how off-the-mark they are.  But not this time.

I never expected Nintendo to suggest that casuals buy one of two games and jackshit else.  I never figured they would really acknowledge that they catered too much to the casuals with the Wii and turned off core gamers.  They've kind of hinted at it but never stated it outright.  Hell, for a long time they acted like there is no such thing as casual or core.

They're not beating around the bush.  Iwata is saying the exact thing I am!  Now will Nintendo actually do it right and do they realize WHY the Wii was labelled a casual system?  We'll find out, but at least they're saying "hey, we fucked this up!" for a change after decades of spinning every stupid idea they've ever had and acting like they're infallible.

Nintendo posting losses is a blessing in disguise.  If they didn't suffer a little, they wouldn't learn.  If the Wii was as consistently profitable as it was in the beginning, Nintendo would have no incentive to improve.

[Chozo Ghost]

I won't be fully convinced Nintendo has learned their lesson about ignoring Core gamers unless they change the name of the Wii U to.... well, pretty much anything other than Wii U.

[Oblivion]

Who fucking cares about the name? What does that have to do with Core Gamers?

[Chozo Ghost]

Who fucking cares about the name? What does that have to do with Core Gamers?

It is too closely associated with "Wii". I don't think it really needs to be explained why Core gamers are turned off by it.

[Ian Sane]

I won't be fully convinced Nintendo has learned their lesson about ignoring Core gamers unless they change the name of the Wii U to.... well, pretty much anything other than Wii U.

Nintendo probably realizes that the Wii turned off core gamers but they might not exactly know WHY.  The Wii U name might not mean that they're actually focused on casuals but merely that that fail to realize the negative association core gamers may have with that name.

I find Iwata's comments encouraging in that it shows the intent is there.  However, I don't have confidence that they actually know what to do.  The intent is better than nothing though.

[Louieturkey]

ā€œOnce consumers have a notion that ā€˜this system is not for usā€™, we have learned that it is extremely difficult to change their perceptions later,ā€ said Iwata.

Logically, can't this apply to either of the audiences they're outlining?

Look at the 360.  While it didn't set out to capture the casual market first, it did end up doing what Iwata describes here.  360 had the gamer market and still does to this day.  Since the release of the Kinect, they have pulled casuals away from the Wii and onto the 360.

This is exactly what Nintendo wants to do with both of their systems.

[UncleBob]

Okay, I think I weeded out most of the political talk/government talk.

I don't know what irks me more - that it went on for so long before it was reported, or that some of the people who suddenly reported it (and were openly complaining about it) were some of the folks involved early on.

Guh.

Back to your Wii U talk.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I was amused at what my comment had started. I dared not interrupt it with actual topic related content.

Not that I had any, but even if I did, I would have held it till they were done.

[Lithium]

I just thought the mods didn't mind since it was going on for awhile there thought it was some kind of weird loophole because it wasn't about opinion. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

[UncleBob]

I can't speak for the other mods, but I just don't come in here very often.  I grew tired of a lot of the same complaints and such that were being hurled back and forth and figure it's just better to wait for official WiiU announcements as any others either disappoint me or make the wait even harder to bear.

[tendoboy1984]

Who fucking cares about the name? What does that have to do with Core Gamers?

Who cares about the term "[hard]core" gamers? It's a meaningless label that was created after the Wii was released to show it was different from the PS3/Xbox 360.

[lolmonade]

Thank you Ceric.

But I believe this creates an issue. Will Nintendo not pack in some tech Demo to make people go nuts? I don't think it would hurt in the slightest if after the main sizzle reel is over at E3, Nintendo says it will include some "U play game" with the console.

The fact that Wii Sports came with the Wii outside of Japan was a major selling point.

I certainly love that they want to cater to the hardcore but I think at least one piece of casual software should come free with the system.

Maybe New Super Mario Bros. Wii U?  I know the Wii game sold gangbusters, so they may be a bit wary of packing-in a game that seems like a surefire hit, and this game isn't necessarily seen as a "core" game by many here, but I think that's a great middle-ground game between the two markets, and it would definitely influence my purchasing decision if it came with a free game with some depth.

[Stogi]

Depth isn't needed though; a fresh experience is.

If there were a pack-in game, it'd have to be something that exemplifies the system within a second of holding it.

[Spak-Spang]

I think whatever WiiU tablet demos are fleshed out at this E3 will be the pack in game.  Of course Nintendo is also going to have real games there at the booth, but I expect Nintendo to have demos that are played as a means to let the wait in line for the real games to seem shorter. 

Then just like Wii Sports was a proof of concept these demos will be packaged in as a proof of concept game.

[Ceric]

We'll probably get all the Demo's from last E3 either on the system already or a free download to get you to use the online.  I'm hoping they include a game that teaches you the functions of the WiiU outside of gaming and how to use them.  I don't mean a tutorial an actual game where you use the features to solve problems.

[noname2200]

Look at the 360.  While it didn't set out to capture the casual market first, it did end up doing what Iwata describes here.  360 had the gamer market and still does to this day.  Since the release of the Kinect, they have pulled casuals away from the Wii and onto the 360.

This is exactly what Nintendo wants to do with both of their systems.

And how often does that happen? Sony tried it with the Move, and they failed abysmally. And I'd argue that the Kinect not only performed a fraction as well as the Wii did with the expanded market, but that the fact that it only sells during the holidays, and its games apparently don't sell much at all, indicates that they're only pulling in folks who are interested in the novelty. Isn't that precisely what Iwata's complaining about here?

While I understand what Iwata's getting at, it seems to me that the expanded audience is tougher to acquire than the core audience. Otherwise, it wouldn't be the "core" audience! So it seems odd to me to assume that you can initially ignore the group that has proven less interested in videogames, and then casually say "eh, we'll get to them later."

[Adrock]

The casual market seems easy to acquire but difficult to maintain because they don't have a committed interest in gaming. Show them something shiny and watch their eyes light up but sooner rather than later, their eyes will wander. I was under the impression that Nintendo wanted to transition casual gamers to traditional gaming. That's why Mario Kart Wii had the Wii Wheel and included Miis. The problem is that some people just don't like videogames or view it as a hobby, only a momentary distraction. Casual interest is sustainable so long as Nintendo can keep providing brand new shiny instead of a sequel to previous shiny. In other words, Nintendo can't just offer more Wii Sports, they have to keep coming up with some else equally as enticing as Wii Sports was. If any company can do it, it's Nintendo but that's considerably harder to do than cater to people who regularly play videogames.

When it comes to core gamers, Nintendo makes many core games but they make them primarily for their own fans. Nintendo chose to cater to them instead of branching out into territory unfamiliar to them. While that's not a bad plan, it doesn't expand their audience. They can try to make a Halo or a God of War but that takes resources away from what they do best. What we have then is a chicken-or-the-egg scenario. Create a new IP to draw in an audience or establish an audience then create a new IP for them.

Personally, I think the latter is a safer bet and it starts with 3rd parties which Nintendo has been making strides in (finally). Before Nintendo has, say, Retro Studios make a first-person shooter for example, there has to be a need for one. That need is more than just the absence of something. That kind of game has to reach more than Nintendo fans because many Nintendo fans will not buy it. Retro Studios could spend 2-3 years developing that a critical darling but commercial failure when they could have made Zelda or another Donkey Kong/Metroid.

[Ian Sane]

While I understand what Iwata's getting at, it seems to me that the expanded audience is tougher to acquire than the core audience. Otherwise, it wouldn't be the "core" audience! So it seems odd to me to assume that you can initially ignore the group that has proven less interested in videogames, and then casually say "eh, we'll get to them later."

The casual audience has no loyality and no vested interest in videogames as anything but a novelty.  The core audience is what will keep you in business during down times when the casual market isn't interested.  If you lose the core then you're really screwed once the casuals find something else that grabs their interest.  You need to keep the dedicated market as a customer.  Their support is just more important for the long term.  The casual buck is really just "bonus" money.  Nobody could consistently stay in business focusing solely on them.

I know it isn't popular to describe the Wii as a fad, but it is a good way to explain the importance of the core market.  Many hobbies have boom periods where suddenly the mainstream latches on.  From a mainstream perspective the hobby is a fad, though it isn't seen as such from the dedicated hobbyists.  The hobby stays in business on the dedicated customers and has boom periods where the mainstream is into it.  Anybody who just focuses on the mainstream in this scenario falls hard once the fad is over.  The companies that hang on to the dedicated market stay in business as things go back to "normal".

Nintendo realizes that with the Wii they focused on the mainstream to a point that the dedicated market wrote them off.  They need to get that market back in order to have longterm success.  Therefore the core has to be the priority while the casual market has to be the "bonus" that you get if you can.  Obviously Nintendo wants both but if they have to risk losing one because they put too much effort in attracting the other the casuals are the safer ones to lose.

[Fatty The Hutt]

As for a pack-in, I think Nintendo would be smart to include most (if not all) of the demos from last year's E3, polished up of course, because they each demonstrated a particular novel use of the tablet in games.
 
I agree that packing in NSMB Mii would probably leave money on the table. I think they should pack in a few levels, plus a level editor, and let you go online to purchase downloadable levels from the Nintendo pros and also freely up/download created levels. Later, they can package the download Nintendo content and the best of the uploads onto a retail disc. This hopefully will get folks to go online and will also demonstrate some of the cool features of the WiiU tablet (creating levels with finger-dragging, being able to transfer the gameplay to the tablet only; not sure what else. Maybe co-op level creation online with friends?) Maybe they should charge for the level editor as DLC?

[Spak-Spang]

Actually Fatty that is a good idea...and good use of a level editor. 

Then Nintendo could go around and higher different designers from different studios, Sonic Team, Capcom's Street Fighter Team...ect.  Basically famous Japanese directors and American directors to make their own levels and sell them as packs. 

[BlackNMild2k1]

Sega has another game in the works for Wii U
only this time it's more likely for Wii U Ware
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/matthew-hickman/8/873/277

[Fatty The Hutt]

Nintendo could go around and higher different designers from different studios, Sonic Team, Capcom's Street Fighter Team...ect.  Basically famous Japanese directors and American directors to make their own levels and sell them as packs.

This is genius! I want this, now!

[Fatty The Hutt]

Sega has another game in the works for Wii U
only this time it's more likely for Wii U Ware
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/matthew-hickman/8/873/277

The quality assurance on Sega Bass Fishing really was top-notch. You're Hired, Guy!

[tendoboy1984]

Actually Fatty that is a good idea...and good use of a level editor. 

Then Nintendo could go around and higher different designers from different studios, Sonic Team, Capcom's Street Fighter Team...ect.  Basically famous Japanese directors and American directors to make their own levels and sell them as packs.

They already did this with WarioWare DIY. Level editors work, you just need the right game to implement it in. Platformers are perfect for level editors, since the entire level can be built using "tiles". Look at the Mario vs DK series and the "Mario Builder" PC app for examples.