Topic: Wii Successor Could Use Flash Memory and 25GB Discs

[NWR_Karlie]

The latest word is that Café will not have a hard drive.

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/rumor/26204

The Wii follow-up is set to contain eight gigabytes of on-board flash memory and will not use a hard drive, sources have allegedly told gaming blog Kotaku. The new system, which is scheduled to be revealed at E3, may also use a disc format that can hold 25GB of data.

It is unclear whether the system will be using a blue laser technology similar to Sony’s Blu-Ray format or red laser technology like the defunct HD-DVD format and regular DVD. A dual-layer HD-DVD can hold 30GB of data, while a single-layer Blu-Ray disc can hold 25GB. Additionally, the console is expected to use SD cards for saving. High definition graphics are expected as the system is set to support resolutions up to 1080p.

Eight gigabytes is an increase from the Wii's 512MB of internal storage, and works out to approximately 64,000 blocks in Wii terms.

It is noted that specifications could easily be altered before launch.

[Miyamoto]

I guess they're looking at production costs. You know the hardcore/PS3/360 bunch will write Nintendo off for these sort of decisions. But just look at how far flash has come. By next year you could probably buy a 64GB SD card for relatively cheap or a 16GB card for next to nothing. Nintendo is putting the price point in the consumers hands.
 
 

[Chozo Ghost]

8GB is the same amount of storage which the original Xbox had. Its going to be no where near enough for DLC addons and so on. I predict this is going to be yet another excuse 3rd parties are going to use in order to screw Nintendo over yet again. HDD support is a standard feature, so it makes no sense for Nintendo to reject it.

[broodwars]

If this rumor is true, this is a sick joke.  My 360 has 120 GB and my PS3 160 GB, and if I didn't routinely delete install data for games I'm no longer playing I would have run out of space a long time ago.  Even deleting old install data, I still only have something like 40-50 gb left on my PS3.

When we have downloadable games and DLC that are multiple GBs in size, only having 8 GB of storage is pathetic.  I sense another patch job in the works to allow SD card storage just like the Wii.

[Jonnyboy117]

If true, the flash memory would be used for caching to improve game performance and reduce load times. I am sure that on-board storage for downloadable games, DLC, etc. would be stored on expandable SD cards.

[Nemo]

I'm fine with it coming with only 8GB, so long as there's a Hard Drive bay and I can buy a hard drive later on.

[TheBlackCat]

This has got to be a joke.  There is no reason to use flash memory.  Yes, it has faster read times, but it has slower write times so there is no benefit there.  Intel and Microsoft already tried using it as a high-capacity temporary storage location and it was a total failure for that very reason. 

But the biggest problem is it costs about 10 times more per GB.  Besides, right now you can get 16gb drives for $30, yet this thing isn't coming out for over a year and a half?  By that point 16 gb drives will probably be $10.  So 8 gb is nothing right now, not to mention in 18 months.  If they just bundle it with whatever SD card costs $15 at the time we would have more storage capacity than this. 

If this is true it is an absolutely stupid decision in every imaginable way, and I guarantee that 3rd part DLC content providers will reject the new system because of it.  The next Xbox and PS3 will certainly have at least 320 gb hard drives, more likely 500.  If this announcement is true then Nintendo has already lost the hard-core market with just this one decision.  There is no way any hard core gamer will take a system with 1/20th the storage space of current-gen systems as a legitimate next-gen system.

[Morari]

There is no way any hard core gamer will take a system with 1/20th the storage space of current-gen systems as a legitimate next-gen system.

I agree. I laugh every time I think about about those kiddie consoles that pale in comparison to the 16TB that is available on my PC. We won't even count the NAS either.

Seriously though. It does seem like a bonehead move if true. Still, about the only thing internal storage is good for is save data and DLC... unless they intend to use it as swap space?

[gbuell]

I sense another patch job in the works to allow SD card storage just like the Wii.

What do you mean "patch job"? The rumor is that the console will ship with SD card storage support.

[ShyGuy]

Hard drives are an outdated technology. Get with the times people, Nintendo has.

[broodwars]

I sense another patch job in the works to allow SD card storage just like the Wii.

What do you mean "patch job"? The rumor is that the console will ship with SD card storage support.

In the sense that it's a bandaid being placed on an axe wound.  Given this pitiful main storage amount, I'd be surprised if we could actually play the games off the SD card.  We'd probably have a 5-6 GB limit on game size, which would have to temporarily copy into memory like we have with the Wii.

[gbuell]

I sense another patch job in the works to allow SD card storage just like the Wii.

What do you mean "patch job"? The rumor is that the console will ship with SD card storage support.

In the sense that it's a bandaid being placed on an axe wound.  Given this pitiful main storage amount, I'd be surprised if we could actually play the games off the SD card.  We'd probably have a 5-6 GB limit on game size, which would have to temporarily copy into memory like we have with the Wii.

I don't know the technical ins and outs, but it seems like if they design it that way from the beginning, the console could be capable of launching from an SD card. Definitely correct me if this isn't possible, though.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I sense another patch job in the works to allow SD card storage just like the Wii.

What do you mean "patch job"? The rumor is that the console will ship with SD card storage support.

In the sense that it's a bandaid being placed on an axe wound.  Given this pitiful main storage amount, I'd be surprised if we could actually play the games off the SD card.  We'd probably have a 5-6 GB limit on game size, which would have to temporarily copy into memory like we have with the Wii.

I don't know the technical ins and outs, but it seems like if they design it that way from the beginning, the console could be capable of launching from an SD card. Definitely correct me if this isn't possible, though.

It's what they did for the 3DS so I don't see why it wouldn't carry over for the Wii2/Cafe

[broodwars]

I don't know the technical ins and outs, but it seems like if they design it that way from the beginning, the console could be capable of launching from an SD card. Definitely correct me if this isn't possible, though.

The question is whether the Wii 2's internal memory is designed in such a way that the system doesn't have to temporarily copy the data from the SD card before it can be run.  What we have right now with the Wii's SD card support is functional and certainly better than what we started with, but I would hope for better from the next Nintendo console.

[ShyGuy]

Well, the other thing mentioned in this rumor is 25gb game discs. Will this make the 360's DVD look old and busted?

[BlackNMild2k1]

I don't know the technical ins and outs, but it seems like if they design it that way from the beginning, the console could be capable of launching from an SD card. Definitely correct me if this isn't possible, though.

The question is whether the Wii 2's internal memory is designed in such a way that the system doesn't have to temporarily copy the data from the SD card before it can be run.  What we have right now with the Wii's SD card support is functional and certainly better than what we started with, but I would hope for better from the next Nintendo console.

The reason Wii worked the way it did and couldn't be fixed later was because of how the system was designed. Starting with 3DS, a background OS is in place and any changes to that OS will affect all software designed to run on the system instead of each piece of software being designed to run on a specific version of FW (don't remember what it was called) that future updates wouldn't affect.

So if a game was written to load from the internal memory, then a patch that allowed SD card loading wouldn't even matter because the game wouldn't recognize it. And since the system was written without SD loading in mind, no software can actually take advantage of the update. It was a shortsighted mistake that Nintendo has already addressed. "Jimae-shugi" and whatnot.

Well, the other thing mentioned in this rumor is 25gb game discs. Will this make the 360's DVD look old and busted?

Yes. And it's most likely blue laser based meaning Bluray w/o the licensing. Just like Wii was DVD w/o licensing and GC was miniDVD w/o the licensing.

[Ian Sane]

This is pretty much going to screw Nintendo on DLC and downloadable games.  Odds are they'll still get the main release but the other consoles will get exclusive DLC and we'll get the same bullshit where a downloadable title is on every format except Wii Ware due to size restrictions.  I predict the Super Wii will lose some third party games because of this and will commonly get the "worst" version of multiplatform releases.

Unless this thing comes with an insanely large SD card but how big to those get and how expensive is it?  The biggest ones I see in stores are 32 GB which is nothing compared to a hard drive.  This is like cartridges vs. CDs again.  Nintendo is all uppity about load times which NO ONE cares about.  Meanwhile hard drives cost less money for more space.  That is why CDs owned the **** out of cartridges and it's the same thing here.  Just looking at Futureshop's web site the biggest SD card they have is 64 GB and it costs $300 while the first TB size hard drive I load up costs only $70.  This is idiotic.

And what I just realized is that for third party games I don't need to buy a Super Wii.  Odds are the Super Wii will get lots of multiplatform titles.  But I already gave up on the Wii and bought a PS3 so I don't need to buy these games on the Super Wii when I can get them on the PS3.  With the storage space issue I can't see myself EVER buying the Super Wii version unless it has some exclusive content to it.  All this time I've been thinking of how Nintendo needs to attract third party support, and they do, but that isn't going to sell anyone who owns another system unless the Super Wii versions are better.  I never thought about that until now.  So if the controls are goofy or the storage space or online play is shitty, I'll just get the PS3 version.  And so many people gave up on the Wii and bought another system so few would be "tied down" to the Super Wii.

Nintendo is more or less showing up for the core gamers crowd five years later after everyone already has another console.  The reason to get the Super Wii will naturally be the first party games but if there are any typical Nintendo goofy **** that compromises multiplatform third party releases in any way those games are going to sell like **** on the Super Wii.

Nintendo has zero wiggle room for fucking around unless they just want to be the casual guys.

[BlackNMild2k1]

This is pretty much going to screw Nintendo on DLC and downloadable games.  Odds are they'll still get the main release but the other consoles will get exclusive DLC and we'll get the same bullshit where a downloadable title is on every format except Wii Ware due to size restrictions.  I predict the Super Wii will lose some third party games because of this and will commonly get the "worst" version of multiplatform releases.

Unless this thing comes with an insanely large SD card but how big to those get and how expensive is it?  The biggest ones I see in stores are 32 GB which is nothing compared to a hard drive.  This is like cartridges vs. CDs again.  Nintendo is all uppity about load times which NO ONE cares about.  Meanwhile hard drives cost less money for more space.  That is why CDs owned the **** out of cartridges and it's the same thing here.  Just looking at Futureshop's web site the biggest SD card they have is 64 GB and it costs $300 while the first TB size hard drive I load up costs only $70.  This is idiotic.

Ummm... you are trippin. 64GB SD card is less than $100 and even a 64SSD is only $128 or so.

& 256GB is the largest SD card right now
128GB SD card cost ~$200 & a 128GB SSD ~$230

& if the extra features of the Wii2 version of multi-plat games couldn't convince you to buy the Wii2 version because they don't have the other 120GB of HDD space you wouldn't even need for that game, then good riddance. Nintendo may have lost you but it's not you they are trying to get back.

[KeyBilly]

I am okay with SD storage.  I don't see a need for more than that, with increasing speed and size for a good price.  It's more convenient, smaller, produces less heat, and is potentially faster.

Oh, and 25 GB is good, though I'm sure some will want BR support for movies.  It would be nice, but I think optical formats aren't as relevant as they used to be.  Good HD implementations of the streaming services would be great, though.

[MagicCow64]

I think people are jumping the gun here. People complained/gloated for years that the Wii didn't output in HD. Nintendo claimed it wasn't HD because there wasn't enough market penetration on HD televisions yet. Fast forward a few years, and Microsoft stops including HD cables out of the box with the XBox because internal surveys discovered that only something like 10% of users were actually even using HD cables or utilizing them correctly with TV settings to make it actually make a difference. My point with this is that HD was, and to an extent still is, a talking point. True, 3rd parties got pissy about it and for the most part stopped bothering with ports, but that was really more of a hardware issue. If the Wii could have produced the graphical output of Gears of War in SD, I don't think the HD red herring would have mattered.

So with this potential storage kerfuffle: Sounds like the 8 gigs onboard is indeed probably for game caching, and that the main storage solution will be an SD card slot. People are saying that this will screw up DLC allotment and downloadable game sizes, ect. On the first point, I agree that the SuperWii could miss some DLC. But how many people actually care about DLC outside of core enthusiasts? I'd wager most people aren't necessarily even aware of it most of the time. I have a 360 and I've never bought DLC, partly because I think it's a bullshit business practice, but mostly because very little of it seems appealing or worthwhile. Likewise I have never downloaded a full game. I'd really rather own the disc for sentimental and resell value, and I think most consumers are still in this position. As a result, my 120 G harddrive has barely been scratched. I've tried downloading games from disc to the console, but wasn't able to detect any difference in load times or anything, so I desisted. I have downloaded a few games from Arcade, but these haven't been particularly large, and with the strict low-size requirements on the Wii gone, I don't see why any download-only games wouldn't work on SuperWii.

So, while collectively these issues might be a probably to a segment of heavy usage enthusiasts, big picture I don't think the average consumer is going to care, and that's Nintendo's bottom line. I wouldn't consider myself an average consumer, and this information still isn't making me bat an eye.

[Enner]

If this turns out to be true, I guess Gamecube games on Virtual Console will be out of the question at worst or difficult to manage at best. That is assuming the SD Card will work in the Super Wii as it does in the Wii.

Hey, maybe they'll let us use a hard drive through USB. That would be swell.

[broodwars]

So, while collectively these issues might be a probably to a segment of heavy usage enthusiasts, big picture I don't think the average consumer is going to care, and that's Nintendo's bottom line. I wouldn't consider myself an average consumer, and this information still isn't making me bat an eye.

This console is supposed to be the one that "brings the core audience back", so I do think it matters what we want out of it.  This whole "well, I guess they don't need this thing we don't to pay for" attitude is a large part of what led to the Wii being summarily abandoned by the 3rd parties.  And sorry, but I'm not going to spend whatever hundreds of dollars on a "next generation" console that's notably inferior to the 360 and PS3 consoles I already own.  Storage size matters as companies are trying to more directly target their consumers and cut costs by going digital.  While we have bad DLC out there, we also have quality DLC like those in Fallout 3 and Mass Effect 2, which range from 500 MB to well over a GB in size for each file.  With these specs, there's nowhere to put that.

And let's say that Nintendo intends us all to use SD cards for storage.  Nintendo won't mandate that people use that, so we're still tethered to size limits built around an 8 GB storage capacity.  Sorry, but digital downloads have long-since surpassed that kind of storage.

[BlackNMild2k1]

If this turns out to be true, I guess Gamecube games on Virtual Console will be out of the question at worst or difficult to manage at best. That is assuming the SD Card will work in the Super Wii as it does in the Wii.

Hey, maybe they'll let us use a hard drive through USB. That would be swell.

Why would you assume that? Why wouldn't you assume that it would work the same was as it does in the 3DS and allow you to launch directly from the SD card?

[Chozo Ghost]

If this rumor is true, this is a sick joke.  My 360 has 120 GB and my PS3 160 GB, and if I didn't routinely delete install data for games I'm no longer playing I would have run out of space a long time ago.  Even deleting old install data, I still only have something like 40-50 gb left on my PS3.

Why don't you upgrade your HDD then? I installed a 500gb HDD on my friend's PS3 replacing his old 80gb. Its ridiculously simple to do and all you need is a screwdriver. I heard the 360 only accepts proprietary expensive Microsoft approved HDDs, so upgrading that is more expensive, but the PS3 will accept any generic 2.5" HDD with no problem.

[Ceric]

If this rumor is true, this is a sick joke.  My 360 has 120 GB and my PS3 160 GB, and if I didn't routinely delete install data for games I'm no longer playing I would have run out of space a long time ago.  Even deleting old install data, I still only have something like 40-50 gb left on my PS3.

Why don't you upgrade your HDD then? I installed a 500gb HDD on my friend's PS3 replacing his old 80gb. Its ridiculously simple to do and all you need is a screwdriver. I heard the 360 only accepts proprietary expensive Microsoft approved HDDs, so upgrading that is more expensive, but the PS3 will accept any generic 2.5" HDD with no problem.

I should do that.