Topic: Fighting Games: JOIN THA WULFPACK

[Sarail]

Oh, man. Playing Skullgirls now. It's freaking super effective! Control is SO tight. Good stuff.

And the artwork is HAWT.

[Halbred]

Worth buying? Can a casual fighting fan get into it?

[Sarail]

Other than having a small roster at the outset (I'm not sure if there's any unlockables currently...), the game plays incredibly well.

After running through and completing the training mode, I can tell the game, on the offensive side, is based strictly on manipulating hit-stun and combo'ing in and out regular attacks, special moves, and "Blockbuster" super specials. It almost feels a bit like a more advanced Killer Instinct - but with more focus on building combos using your basic, regular attacks. Air combos are fantastic in Skullgirls.

And it's all animated so beautifully well. The game's artwork is gorgeous.

I say it's definitely worth buying - but I am concerned about how many more characters there are in the game. There's only eight starters. Hmmm?

[S-U-P-E-R]

They've already started work on more characters btw
Somebody that's not me, please try and talk about the tutorial modes. They say they're supposed to teach you fighting game fundamentals instead of Simon bullshit.

[Ymeegod]

You might want to hold off Halbred, they "forgot" to add in the command list which is kinda strange to be missing from a fighter?  Not sure when they plan on patching it up but for now you have to flip to the website to get the move list.

And the AI is said to be brutal even on lowest settings.

BTW:  What platform did everyone get it on? 

[S-U-P-E-R]

I got it for XBox but I might double dip and buy PS3 as well.

The deal with the command list is they were out of time and figured it was less important than other features that did get in. It will be patched in later. Apparently multiple-languages is a time consuming issue with it?

So yeah I'm playing it now and it's the best game ever
 
post-playing editsssss:

And the AI is said to be brutal even on lowest settings.

scrub sighted
So I went through two story arcs and did the tutorial. It actually teaches stuff like hit confirms and mixups and it kind of blows my mind. That sort of stuff is not really immediately intuitive for a beginning fightmangamer and it usually has to be taught by another person. I think if you're interested in learning fighting games at all you should complete the SG tutorial. Or, alternatively, have a pro make a lesson plan for you or something.
I was surprised that Marie is in the game, albeit as an unplayable boss. She seems a lot like a Marvel game boss. The Reverge guys have said a few times that it would be a waste to not use those resources to make a playable character... maybe she's going to get reworked a bit and made playable?

[Sarail]

It's so smooth, Ty. I picked it up on PSN. Halbred, you have a PS3, right?

[S-U-P-E-R]

Smartphoneable movelist
http://imgur.com/a/tVZuf

[Halbred]

I do, Ratchtman, and I got the game last night.

[ShyGuy]

Fox News IGN LULZ Gives it an 8.5

http://video.foxnews.com/v/1555123685001/is-skullgirls-more-than-just-eye-candy?intcmp=features

[broodwars]

I needed a bit of a break from Tales of Graces F (150 hours and climbing...*sigh*), so I picked up Mortal Kombat again and worked my way to Smoke's chapter in the Mortal Kombat 2 portion of Story Mode.  I'm still really liking Mortal Kombat's Story Mode, and I hope that Capcom and Arc System Works are taking notes (Capcom for having a story mode, and Arc System Works for not making their story modes so convoluted, formulaic, and tedious).  I also put some more time into the Challenge Tower, and that's been surprisingly enjoyable as well, though there are certainly some challenges I could do without.  I'm really not a fan of the 1-on-2 battles both the Story and Challenge Tower modes put you into, as they just seem to encourage you not to fight with skill but by finding AI exploits and then fighting extremely cheaply.

I also dogged Mortal Kombat's tutorial mode a bit previously because of certain button timing on one of the "lessons", but having completed it I think it does an excellent job of explaining the various systems of the game (particularly that each character really only has about 4-5 super moves with more powerful variants triggered using the R2 modifyer).  Now that I've put a lot of time into the game, I think I like Mortal Kombat's controls more than possibly any other fighter save perhaps the original BlazBlue.  There's none of that "diagonal arrow" B.S. I have so much trouble with that's all over other fighting games, and most moves are just a couple of arrow directions plus a button.  Moves are easy to perform when you really need them, and that goes a long way with me.

Incidentally, I checked out the Skullgirls demo, and after 5 minutes with the game immediately deleted it.  If the game's not going to bother giving me a Move List and locks the majority of the TUTORIAL mode behind a pay wall, then I'm sure as hell not going to buy the game.

[S-U-P-E-R]

How much of the tutorial does it let you play in demo mode? The first column of lessons?

Also it's not like other fighters give you any tutorials without buying them...

edit: actually I don't even know of another demo for a fighter that gives you training mode at all besides Skullgirls
edit2: seriously that looks like troll bait. 5 minutes, lol

[Morari]

I'm waiting for the sequel, Skullguys. Then we'll finally have hyper-sexualized monster/men to play with!

[broodwars]

How much of the tutorial does it let you play in demo mode? The first column of lessons?

IIRC, the first lesson from each column is all you get before you have to buy the game.

Also it's not like other fighters give you any tutorials without buying them...

edit: actually I don't even know of another demo for a fighter that gives you training mode at all besides Skullgirls

I think Mortal Kombat's may have had the tutorial (and even if the demo doesn't, the 1 hour trial for PS+ users does), but here's the thing: those other fighting games usually have the decency to just lock out the entire mode if it's not part of the demo.  They don't make you think you can learn how to play the game, and then take that experience away from you once you enter.

edit2: seriously that looks like troll bait. 5 minutes, lol

5 minutes was all it took to see that the game wasn't made to be accessible to people outside the tourney crowd.  The game just comes off as lazy in key areas, such as not having a Move List accessible in-game or locking out most of the tutorial mode in what looks to be a very technical fighter.  Plus, as good as the character animation seemed, there really didn't seem to be anything special or unique to the fighting, such as BlazBlue's drive system or MvC3's flashy; over-the-top; and relatively easy to trigger combos/Hypers.

5 minutes was all it took to see that the game wasn't made for casual fighting game fans like me, so I saw no sense in buying it.

[S-U-P-E-R]

I think Mortal Kombat's may have had the tutorial (and even if the demo doesn't, the 1 hour trial for PS+ users does), but here's the thing: those other fighting games usually have the decency to just lock out the entire mode if it's not part of the demo.  They don't make you think you can learn how to play the game, and then take that experience away from you once you enter.

It really seems like you're saying something is actually worse than nothing here, and it just doesn't make sense to me. You're saying you'd rather have them lock out the whole thing? Or they should be obligated to give you the whole thing for free? The demo seems a lot more substantial than any other fg demo already. Unlimited training mode!

5 minutes was all it took to see that the game wasn't made for casual fighting game fans like me, so I saw no sense in buying it.

So are you going to reconsider when the move list gets patched in in like a month, even though you could, you know, print one?

[broodwars]

It really seems like you're saying something is actually worse than nothing here, and it just doesn't make sense to me. You're saying you'd rather have them lock out the whole thing? Or they should be obligated to give you the whole thing for free? The demo seems a lot more substantial than any other fg demo already. Unlimited training mode!

It is when there's no other mechanism in the game to learn the mechanics, namely the lack of a Move List or an explanation of the various bars and whatnot.

So are you going to reconsider when the move list gets patched in in like a month, even though you could, you know, print one?

It's not my job as a player to compensate for the developer's incompetence.  No, I probably won't reconsider buying it post-patch, unless it goes on sale on PSN for $5 or something similar.  The developer made a poor first impression, and that's on them.  Why should I waste my time and money on this game when I can play a fighting game that's more competently designed (and frankly more immediately enjoyable) like Mortal Kombat?

And that's all I have to say on Skullgirls.  Like it if you must, but I just don't see the draw and I thought the demo was very poorly conceived.

[S-U-P-E-R]

Yeah it's fine if you don't like it, but it's coming across me like you have a weird sense of entitlement about what you get with a free demo / 15 dollar game. Also lol at MK being better designed (it's not)

[Sarail]

So are you going to reconsider when the move list gets patched in in like a month, even though you could, you know, print one?

It's not my job as a player to compensate for the developer's incompetence.  No, I probably won't reconsider buying it post-patch, unless it goes on sale on PSN for $5 or something similar.  The developer made a poor first impression, and that's on them.  Why should I waste my time and money on this game when I can play a fighting game that's more competently designed (and frankly more immediately enjoyable) like Mortal Kombat?

And that's all I have to say on Skullgirls.  Like it if you must, but I just don't see the draw and I thought the demo was very poorly conceived.

Lazy. Mortal Kombat 1 and 2 (and I even think 3!) didn't have move lists included in-game, and I STILL found ways to create move lists for all of the characters - whether it be by going online or by just freaking writing them down on paper. Hell, I did that for the original Street Fighter 2 on SNES back in the day. I think when the "Turbo" version came out, I even wrote down combo lists for my favorite characters.


Not having a movelist included IN the game isn't a deal-breaker as far as I'm concerned. They didn't even have to include a training mode for all I care! What happened to.. oh, ya know... learning how to play a game?


Skullgirls is a fantastic fighting game -- one of the best I've played in a LONG time. 5 minutes, you say? You surely didn't give yourself enough time with the game then. Insert more quarters, man. MORE QUARTERS.


My only complaint is a small roster. But more characters are coming.. that's fact. Other than that, Skullgirls is where it be, yo.

[Halbred]

I actually think the missing move list is an enormous black eye against the developers. Yeah, we didn't have move lists for MK 1 and 2, back in freaking 1999. But it's 2012 now--every fighting game on the market has move lists accessed from the pause menu or as a drop down over the playfield. It can't possibly be difficult to implement. It's not an entitlement thing, it's justifiably puzzling failure to be ON PAR with other fighters.

It's also silly, from an objective perspective, to lock out PART OF the training mode. Either include it or don't!

I'll be happy when Skullgirls updates. Hopefully the patch will include move lists and extra characters. If I have to pay for them, I'm gonna be pissed. As it stands, the game feels a little incomplete. But it shows promise.

[Spak-Spang]

I have to agree with that a move list being absent is a big omission.  However, it is being patched and fixed.  Also, this game just seems to be a game that is going to be great...and has the potential to be one of the best fighters of this year...however, it isn't quite complete yet.  But guess what...it is a small development team creating a game they are passionate about.  And although, they kinda released the game prematurely...the fans get the game to play early, and late adopters can get a more complete game later...as well as the earlier adopters. 

Give the game another chance...once the elements you want in the game are included you should reconsider the game...specially since you are basing your entire conclusions on a demo version of the game.

[ShyGuy]

Yeah it's fine if you don't like it, but it's coming across me like you have a weird sense of entitlement about what you get with a free demo / 15 dollar game. Also lol at MK being better designed (it's not)

He truly is like Ian.

[broodwars]

Yeah it's fine if you don't like it, but it's coming across me like you have a weird sense of entitlement about what you get with a free demo / 15 dollar game. Also lol at MK being better designed (it's not)

A lot of my feelings on the whole "Waaah! You can't complain about lack of features in a $15 game" can really be summed-up by Spoony's response to a similar excuse by the developers of the Deadliest Warrior Fighting Game, so I'll just leave that link here.  Simply put, $15 is a premium price for an online downloadable title, and the Skullgirls demo shows me a game that doesn't even meet the bare minimum of standards for modern fighting games by failing to have a Move List.  To me, that's just indicative of a certain level of laziness on the part of the developers, as well as potentially a bit of tourney elitism.  This game was primarily crafted by a very respected tourney player, and I have to wonder if maybe he viewed the game through the lens of a tourney player that "didn't need" the Move List.

Let's consider some other games put up on PSN/XBLA for $15 or less by smaller developers like Journey (PSN - $15); Bastion (XBLA - $15); or the two Trine games (PSN/XBLA - $10 and $15 respectively).  That's the caliber of games that Skullgirls is competing with at that $15 price point, so don't give me that B.S. excuse of "well, what do you expect for $15?"  I expect the game to at least meet the bare minimum of standards within its genre, as well as being able to compete with the other games at its price point in terms of features and production values.  I'd actually say that having a place in the game where you can see the controls is a standard in any modern game, not just fighting games.  That's not entitlement.  That's called bringing your "A" game to a crowded and highly competitive market, and not skimping on the easy things.  Can you imagine people just shrugging off the Move List thing if Capcom or Namco-Bandai had omitted it from their latest release?

As for the Training mode thing, it just came off to me as a total, irritating tease.  The mode says you can use it in the demo (which I initially really appreciated because it's so rare in fighting game demos), but then it kicks you in the face and demands money 30 seconds later.  Either have the mode fully available or don't have it accessible at all.  Otherwise, what is the point of having the mode available at all when information potentially crucial to your enjoyment of the game is locked away?

I can respect that this game really speaks to some players, and I'm sure for its intended audience of tourney players, it's probably a blast.  But as a casual fighting game fan brought back into fighting games by companies making the experience more approachable, that demo just completely turned me off from the main game.  The lack of things like a Move List just seems an indicator that this is not a high-quality release I want to invest my valuable $15 into.  If you feel the opposite, I'm glad you're enjoying your purchase but it's not for me.

As for the Ian crack, ShyGuy, considering that he's one of the best posters on this site (despite the repetitiveness of some of his ranting), I'll take the comparison as a complement. 

[S-U-P-E-R]

Well, either the move list had to be cut or another feature. I can't think of a feature in the game less important than the movelist tbh. I'm still convinced it's a really silly thing to get hung up on with 8 characters that use really simple motions...

For the updates, based on a bunch of posts I've seen from Mike Z & chilldog, I think they're going to work like this: very large updates at a time that include:

- the move list (hehe)
- additional tutorials
- new character data
- new character palettes (I dunno if they're gonna be free/unlockable/50 cents/whatever)
- new stages or features or whatever. I think the youtube uploading is still a thing.

When new characters get released, you'll be able to play with them for free as much as you want in training mode, but you'll have to buy them to play them elsewhere. I remember hearing that they'll be pretty cheap, like a couple bucks. I feel like there's stuff I'm forgetting -- the idea is to put as much stuff as possible in individual updates because of the fees MS/Sony levy on them and the Reverge is still a really, really small company.

[Halbred]

Weren't you complaining awhile back about the two DLC MvC3 characters costing money?

I'm not sure how anybody can defend the poor decisions of Skullgirls. And I don't believe that "if a move list went in, something else would go out." That's not how this works. By comparison to every other production value, the move list must be exceedingly small and easy to implement. There is no defending its absence. And it's not the kind of thing you FORGET, because it's in every other modern fighting game on the planet. I can almost understand not fitting all the characters into the initial release, but NOT REALLY. If it's an issue of budgeting time, I have no empathy. The game's been in production for how long? Seems like forever. And did they have a MUST HIT target date? If not, finish the game before you release it. If so, then I get it, but don't charge me for content that you originally planned to be in the game.

I actually LIKE Skullgirls, but it's such a wierd release. It really does feel unfinished, and I'd like to know why.

[BeautifulShy]

I know most people are here talking about Skull Girls and such but I just wanted to post that the Pinkie Pie BGM was done for Fighting is Magic.

Same person that did Rarity's theme did this one so you may or may not see similarities.

As for the Skull Girls discussion well is there a way to access some online manual through PSN or XBLA much like Wiiware does or the VC does with with it's games through the operation manual?