Topic: SquEnix Opens New Studio For Smartphone Gaming.

[MaryJane]

http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/24/square-enix-launches-hippos-lab-for-smartphone-game-development/

qfta:

Square Enix isn't exactly a stranger to the smartphone scene, but it looks like the company behind Final Fantasy (among countless other games) is now going to be moving quite a bit beyond ports of its existing games for other consoles. The company has just announced the launch of its new Hippos Lab game development studio, which will be primarily focused on creating "high quality original content" for smartphones. Details are unfortunately still pretty light beyond that, but the studio has apparently been up and running since March 7th, and it says it hopes to have its first game "ready soon." No word if they've scored the license for Hungry Hungry Hippos.

Original content for smartphones from a big name developer. I think it's also likely that these smartphone games will also find their way on to tablets, making this even more interesting for the market.

The reason I particularly find this interesting is because Nintendo has unequally dominated the mobile gaming market since it introduced the Game Boy, but smartphones are now the most ubiquitous gadget on the planet, and just about everyone plays games on their phone when bored. It is so much simpler to carry around just your phone, rather than two devices, that having a good phone for gaming seems like a better idea than having two separate devices, especially since phones are catching up, and (probably pushing what and when Nintendo does with the 3DSi) will soon pass the 3DS in terms of graphical specs, and 3D content, creation, and publishing. Also, like I mentioned before, these games are going to find their way onto tablet which are even more powerful, and will probably take a while to get to the power needed to run the new cutting edge PC games coming out.

Nintendo's argument is that their games are of a better quality, and yes, Nintendo games are of a higher quality, but SquEnix and other developers/publishers are taking smartphone gaming much more seriously, so their games will not be of higher quality. Nintendo could give incentives to devs to get exclusive games, and exclusive content on their version, but so can Apple, Google, and Microsoft. The 3DS will also do initially well because of its glasses-free 3D and content agreements, but smartphones are catching up quickly in that respect, and that, and not the NGP, could be the reason for what seems like a rushed launch of the 3DS.

I think that leaves Nintendo with a few choices; (actually a lot of choices, but here are three of them...)
1. Give the 3DSi the ability to make calls with an included Bluetooth headset.
2. Become software only for the mobile market.
3. Try (and probably marginally succeed) to sell the 3DS and its successors on only the strength of their own software, amidst the ever expanding and quickly evolving smartphone gaming market.

I have my own thoughts on what those choices and others mean for Nintendo, the pros and cons of them, their likeliness, and what they mean for gamers and gaming in general, but I'm curious as to what you guys think this all means, if anything.

[MegaByte]

Mobile is definitely a threat, but I don't see this particular announcement as anything significant. Square-Enix has been developing for non-Nintendo handheld platforms as much as possible -- see Wonderswan, PSP, and the tons of previous mobile phone games they've made (mostly Japan-only).

[MaryJane]

To me, this is kind of like when studios announced they would be forming new studios to work on the Wii.

That didn't really turn out so well for Nintendo, but for smartphones backed by three of the biggest companies in the U.S, it could work in their favor. Everyone has a cellphone, and smartphones will soon be as powerful and more than the 3DS, as a developer and/or publisher, why wouldn't you want to put your games onto devices with such large userbases? It would be a little staggered, but so is/was PC gaming. Google has already taken steps towards a standardized gaming form factor with the Xperia Play, and developers already build games to work specifically with iDevice's touch screens.

[Ian Sane]

I see smart phones as clearly a threat to the 3DS but I think Nintendo has a point about the higher quality.  What Nintendo is going to lose is the casual Brain Age crowd.  They're into Angry Birds and the $1 game is right up their alley.  Only dedicated gamers will want not only a seperate system that specializes in games but will be willing to pay $30 for games with more depth.  Nintendo's handhelds will be more and more for enthusiasts and less for the mainstream.  So it's a good thing Nintendo also made the 3DS a powerful system and not just a DS with a 3D gimmick.  They probably recognize the threat.

Of course a key thing is that cellphone games pretty much suck.  Phones lack the control options to really make a game playable.  So you're going to limited to casual fare out of necessity.  But hypothetically if that changed and big devs got on board then maybe phones could be a threat to Nintendo in all ways.  The only thing is will people ever pay $30 for phone games?  Games cost money to make and you're limited if you aim for $1 price point.  There are certain types of games that need to be $30 or it just isn't cost feasible to make them.  So there will always be a market for those kind of games and it all depends on if that price point will ever fly on phones.  If it doesn't then Nintendo has a bit of a safety net.

[Stogi]

This is interesting. Do you think there will be a point where Nintendo is forced into the phone market?

[BlackNMild2k1]

3DS rev.2 2013

3DS 4G

[Stogi]

Seriously though. Well there be a point where people feel like a stand-alone gaming system seems like a jipp? What happens then?

[MaryJane]

I agree with Unagi's point. When your phone is only slightly less powerful than a PS3, what point is there in having a separate system? If the next DS isn't a phone, the only unique thing Nintendo can offer is their own software.

@Ian
In Engadget's review of the Xperia Play http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/28/sony-ericsson-xperia-play-review/ they mention that the Android game marketplace, is called Xperia Play and will feature games made specifically for that button configuration, which most likely means that other phones will use the same button configuration and probably advertise themselves as Android gaming phones. iOS games don't have a standard button configuration, but they have a universal device configuration, albeit with no buttons.

[Ian Sane]

  Seriously though. Well there be a point where people feel like a stand-alone gaming system seems like a jipp? What happens then?

The funny thing is that in the console realm we've moved more towards gaming systems.  PC gaming has become increasingly more niche.  Yet everyone owns a computer these days.  But having a videogame system is like the standard way to play games in your home these days.  Even as PC usage has increased console gaming has won out.
 
Of course the consoles these days offer extras beyond just videogames.

[Stogi]

That brings up a good point. But the house and handheld market are very different, mostly because you can only carry so much at a time.

[MaryJane]

Yes, and what detracted from PC gaming was the lack of standards. What's the point of PC gaming where you have to buy a high-priced new rig every year to play the latest games, when console gaming offers you a more affordable alternative?

Also, about an early point Ian made; digital download games wouldn't cost $30 at least not yet, as part of the price of $30/$40 game is the cartridge.

[Morari]

What's the point of PC gaming where you have to buy a high-priced new rig every year to play the latest games, when console gaming offers you a more affordable alternative?

That's odd. My PC is almost four years old now. It plays even the newest games on the highest settings. I guarantee you that it cost me less to build my PC than it would have to buy a PS3 at the time. Not only is it more powerful and versatile than any console that was and/or is out on the market, it can quickly and cheaply be upgraded with one or two components to get it right back on par in another year or two. The idea that gaming is unaffordable on the PC is a myth. It always has been, and is becoming evermore so with each passing day. Moore's Law has been slowing down considerably the last few years. Give up the FUD.

Now obviously, the variety of hardware inherent in the PC market does create some problems. Small problems. A little additional bug testing, clearly stated hardware requirements? Really though, unless you're running some esoteric configuration, you generally aren't going to see any issues. Everyone has at least one PC in their house nowadays. Why waste the money and room on a dedicated gaming console if it's not offering anything distinct?

Also, about an early point Ian made; digital download games wouldn't cost $30 at least not yet, as part of the price of $30/$40 game is the cartridge.

Do you really believe that publishers are going to allow themselves to miss out on profits like that? They'll keep game prices right where they are, regardless of the costs.

[MaryJane]

The majority of people cannot (or at least think they cannot, which amounts to the same thing) build their own computer, and buying a completed gaming rig tends to be quite expensive. The idea that PC gaming is a expensive might be a myth, but so is Nintendo being kiddie, and yet both ideas adversely affect the sales of their subjects.

And yes, I do think digitally downloaded games will be cheaper than their physical counterparts. Firstly, I don't know what Sony is going to do with their dd games, but you can bet that Google, Apple, and MS will want to keep their games cheap(er) so that they can offer an alternative to Nintendo and Sony, while also wanting to offer similar software and experiences. Secondly, with the ubiquitous nature of smartphones, a publishers market is greatly expanded giving the potential for their sales to increase significantly. If they make a Ridge Racer 3D Android Edition, and sell it for $30 and sell 1.2 million copies of it versus 800,000 on the $40 version on the 3DS, I think they'll be okay with that.

[Stogi]

No offense, MJ. But the way you argue could use some help. I kinda agree with you, but I see four problems with what you have said.

[Morari]

The majority of people cannot (or at least think they cannot, which amounts to the same thing) build their own computer, and buying a completed gaming rig tends to be quite expensive. The idea that PC gaming is a expensive might be a myth, but so is Nintendo being kiddie, and yet both ideas adversely affect the sales of their subjects.

No one but dumb kids buy "gaming rigs" though. They're even more stupidly overpriced than your general prefab PC. Most people would be just as happy with a typical HP. They'd just have to throw a video card in afterward. With the kind of money people spend of low-end laptops for everyday use, they could instead get a much more capable desktop. But laptops have become the fad, I suppose. Despite being underpowered and impossible to upgrade, people like the convenience and portability despite never leaving the kitchen table anyway.

Besides, I don't know that Nintendo is so-much perceived as kiddie nowadays. They really grabbed the casual market by the horns with the Wii. While their is certainly some overlap, I generally perceive the Wii being played more by grandmas and soccer moms than children.

[MaryJane]

No offense, MJ. But the way you argue could use some help. I kinda agree with you, but I see four problems with what you have said.

Would you mind telling me what those are? I like constructive criticism.

@Morari
Agreed, but in both cases my points still remain. I'm one of those people who will probably always have a desktop, but they are trending into oblivion.

[oohhboy]

Smart Phones are not remotely unified enough and never will be a real force to threaten dedicated portable gaming. Smart Phones have a range of operating systems, specs, architectures, shops, screens, shape, size and controls that make anything more than rather shallow games a nightmare to port. Crippled controls and low price point leaves only simple games. The constant upgrades, new models, the need to use the phone as a phone, battery are going to stop almost anybody thinking about investing in high end games (therefore longer, more pretty), whether to produce or purchase.

Have you ever tried playing those smartphone games in a desktop version? Not fun. It's not due to controls or anything technical, it's due to the fact they are only enjoyable due to the circumstances you play them under. When you pull out a phone to play, your brain is racing around on idle trying to find something to do. At this point almost anything will amuse you. If you're hungry enough you will eat almost anything.

In the end, both form and function means that neither will consume the other. The phones get their time wasting distractions, the portables well, get their portable gaming. Not draining your phone dry by playing games is also pretty damn important.

[MaryJane]

1. Smart Phones are not remotely unified enough and never will be a real force to threaten dedicated portable gaming. Smart Phones have a range of operating systems, specs, architectures, shops, screens, shape, size and controls that make anything more than rather shallow games a nightmare to port. Crippled controls and low price point leaves only simple games. The constant upgrades, new models, the need to use the phone as a phone, battery are going to stop almost anybody thinking about investing in high end games (therefore longer, more pretty), whether to produce or purchase.

2.Have you ever tried playing those smartphone games in a desktop version? Not fun. It's not due to controls or anything technical, it's due to the fact they are only enjoyable due to the circumstances you play them under. When you pull out a phone to play, your brain is racing around on idle trying to find something to do. At this point almost anything will amuse you. If you're hungry enough you will eat almost anything.

3.In the end, both form and function means that neither will consume the other. The phones get their time wasting distractions, the portables well, get their portable gaming. Not draining your phone dry by playing games is also pretty damn important.

1. iOS devices are all the same, and the Xperia Play is the first of many Android gaming devices (only if it sells well I imagine) that will use a similar form factor/button configuration. The only mobiles that are disjointed right now are WP7 devices, and MS hasn't announced any sort of mobile gaming strategy yet, likely because of the disjointed market.

2. No, I haven't, but I when I'm on my desktop and bored, I play things like Bloons TD, and Monopoly, which are also just time wasters.

3. Batteries are improving steadily, as is (possibly more importantly) the ability to recharge them quickly. So battery life won't be much of an issue for metropolitan areas in the next few years.

[King of Twitch]

This is interesting. Do you think there will be a point where Nintendo is forced into the phone market?

Ladies and gentlemen, we have our third pillar!


















Wait, that's four!!!

[oohhboy]

iOS devices aren't the same. Some are faster than others, while you can play newer games up to a certain point on older devices, but performance is unacceptable. These devices are updated every two years or less.

The market fragments itself as everybody releases a faster, more powerful phone every other month. There is no stability for devs to say, ok, this platform will be here for 5 years and this game will take a 1/2 to 2 years to make. The extra time window decreases the risks. The devs know that and know making a game with any real weight is not a viable option. Those companies are selling phones first, not gaming devices, when push comes to shove, gaming will get the shaft first. That's one reason why phones are flooded with rubbish that are no better than flash games.

Batteries has actually been on a virtual stand still for the last couple of years. There are chemicals limits to Lithium that cannot be out teched. There are other chemicals we can use, but are far too volatile/reactive(Explosive) to use as a consumer battery. Charging has improved, but for chemical batteries, it will always take hours unless you like fireworks or have liquid cooling on hand. Even once super capacitors come mainstream, you still have to charge to a rate that doesn't destroy your device through heat.

Then you have to content with the fact that when you increase capacity, more powerful devices get built to use what was formally a surplus. Why do you think the 3DS has such short battery life? It's effectively still using the same battery tech from 2004 with a hungrier device. There were massive gains from GBA to DS when we switched batteries from AA to Li. Tweaks improved Li ions which allow the DS lite to enjoy longer up time even if it used the exact same tech(It doesn't die shrink and alls that) as the DS. Those gains are gone.

[MaryJane]

For iOS devices, the yearly refresh hardly ever sees huge leaps in terms of internal specs, and as you say the older devices can still play newer games. Couple that with Apple providing some sort of standard, and things are ripe for a game market. Same goes for Android gaming devices that will also see minimal refreshes and have a (even more streamlined?) gaming strategy.


And as for batteries being at a standstill:

Beyond Li-on batteries:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/08/energizer-introduces-thin-powerful-zinc-air-prismatic-battery/

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/14/stanford-develops-safer-lithium-sulfur-batteries-with-four-times/

http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/28/zinc-matrix-power-unveils-silver-zinc-battery-to-trump-li-ion/

http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/18/ultrabattery-developed-to-drive-hybrid-cars-to-the-next-level/

http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/20/yissum-develops-potato-powered-batteries-for-the-developing-worl/

http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/19/mit-developing-an-engine-on-a-chip-to-beat-the-battery/

http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/14/toyota-working-on-magnesium-batteries-for-phevs-of-the-not-so-ne/



Better Li-on batteries:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/11/new-sony-lithium-ion-batteries-promise-4x-the-capacity-99-rech/

http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/11/researchers-make-progress-with-better-safer-aqueous-lithium-ion/

The 3DS has 'bad' battery life yes, because of its upgraded tech, but it's also because of aesthetics as Nintendo could have put a bigger battery in the 3DS but it would have been chunkier.

[oohhboy]

Older devices play it with unacceptable performance and nowhere as unified as you think. Android gaming, which Xperia is part of is not remotely unified. Xperia is made by Sony Ericsson. Sony the company known to sue themselves with one hand not knowing what the other is doing. Sony Ericsson is a phone maker. Then there is the Odroid. Have a look between just those two devices. Different screen, size shape, controls, specs with no guarantees that they are compatible.

I warn you not to invoke PCs are all different and they do just find, because you will not come out well.

It's nice that you hit the battery tag and spammed those links, but if you actually read the articles, you will be surprised. Let me summarise.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/08/energizer-introduces-thin-powerful-zinc-air-prismatic-battery/
Years away from consumer use (Used in the military) and not rechargeable. They also continue to run down once opened.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/14/stanford-develops-safer-lithium-sulfur-batteries-with-four-times/
"but it's nowhere near commercial launch with just 40 to 50 charge cycles (Li-ion does "300 to 500") due to the compound's rapid degradation."

http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/28/zinc-matrix-power-unveils-silver-zinc-battery-to-trump-li-ion/
Vapourware from 2006 that uses a even rarer precious metal. You do the maths.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/18/ultrabattery-developed-to-drive-hybrid-cars-to-the-next-level/
A lead acid battery in a portable device? NO, and cars.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/20/yissum-develops-potato-powered-batteries-for-the-developing-worl/
You never did the potato experiment in school did you? The Potato is used as an electrolyte, the plates is what is doing the work. Never mind it's a bad idea to use food to power something instead of eating it in somewhere like Africa or just using some salt and water.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/19/mit-developing-an-engine-on-a-chip-to-beat-the-battery/
Not a battery and not used as a solo power source. A quick search reveals one article from 2010. As far as I could tell, the venture didn't take off and the company doesn't exists. The tech is economically dead.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/14/toyota-working-on-magnesium-batteries-for-phevs-of-the-not-so-ne/
'projected to come in 2020 at the earliest" for CARS.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/11/new-sony-lithium-ion-batteries-promise-4x-the-capacity-99-rech/
Not better. These batteries have traded power density and total charge for the ability to charge marginally faster than the average Li. You can charge faster, but more than twice as often.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/11/researchers-make-progress-with-better-safer-aqueous-lithium-ion/
Potentially safer battery than standard Li. Capacity nowhere near standard and no where near coming out of the lab. Not even a projected date.

Do some bloody homework next time. If you still haven't figured what Unagi is talking about by now, well, you haven't figured it out have you?

[MaryJane]

First of all, I did read all those articles as Engadget has been in my RSS feed since 2002 and I read probably 70% of their articles,(and considering how short they are and how fast I read, it wasn't a problem to reread them) the potato article was a joke, and I was merely refuting your claim that battery technology is at a stand still. Obviously, the batteries linked to are not perfect, that's why they're in the development phase and not actual consumer products, and you said "Batteries has actually been on a virtual stand still for the last couple of years." I was just showing that that wasn't true and that batteries are improving and will move beyond Li-on one day and battery life won't be a problem. Will it be tomorrow, or even next year? I can't believe you would think I meant that.

As for the Xperia, it is a push by Google to unify Android gaming, otherwise it would be the Playstation Phone, and would only play PS games, but the fact is that it has two gaming apps. One that plays Sony games, and the other that play Android games developed specifically for the architecture. http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/28/sony-ericsson-xperia-play-review/
qfta:

As with the hardware section, we'll get straight to the PlayStation meat of the Xperia Play software matter. Two apps will be of foremost interest here: the not at all confusingly named Xperia Play, which serves as a showcase for Android Market games compatible with the Play's controls, and the PlayStation Pocket, which houses the hallowed PS One games that this new smartphone is so primed to enjoy.

I haven't figured out what Unagi is talking about,(I would like to know, not to argue, but I seriously would like the criticism, and I don't take things personally) but what you should ask yourself is, haven't the people at Google and Apple thought of these things you've thought about? And also, even without 'serious' gaming, are the smaller titles a threat to the overall DS strategy? Apple already has a $19.99 premium game section of the App store, and as mentioned in the quote above, Google has a similar app. Maybe their strategies will fail, but they do each have a strategy, and that strategy is aimed at taking money out of Nintendo's pockets.

[Stogi]

Ok, I'll bite.

For one, simply the way you argue your argument could use work. Reading over your posts, I can't tell what you are trying to say. Are you trying to refute something or prove something? It's all jumbled in together.

Secondly, the points that your argue, such as PC gaming is expensive, was proven to be factually incorrect. So you moved onto the myth of it being expensive and brought out Nintendo TEH KIDDIE as an example. Why? You could have said a plethora of factual reasons that PC gaming isn't as popular as it once was, for example, how about the fact that people do not want desktops anymore? Morari even said it!

Thirdly, never pull hypothetical numbers. It makes your points look bad because literally anyone can do it.

Fourthly, never state your opinion as fact. Simply put, the "ubiquitous nature of smartphones" does not equal a bigger market for publishers. As Ooohboy has been arguing, no matter what OS a smartphone uses, each of them might as well be considered a different handheld platform. Sure there are some similarities, but the fact of the matter is, the smaller and less impressive the game, the more phones you can push it to. Your Ridge Racer 3D example is appalling for that very reason, never mind the fact that a 3D smartphone has yet to be released.

But like I said, I kind of agree with you. Smart phones will one day pressure Nintendo, but I think only to the point where Nintendo is forced to add smart phone like features but never in the price of games. In fact, I think game prices will go up.

[MaryJane]

1. I could see that, I'll try better next time

2. That may be the same problem as the first with me not explaining enough, I was just trying to say that perception matters. But you're right I could've used better examples, but not sure if that's something I can correct, but I'll think more about the examples I use if it helps.

3. Okay.

4. Again, I think this is me not explaining enough, I meant that the ubiquitous nature of smartphones would mean that gamers who are upgrading their cellphones would think about buying a gaming smartphone rather than a smartphone and a gaming device. And if your game is on iOS, you're in good shape because plenty of gamers and non-gamers buy the phone based on it being an iPhone, and if it has games great. That is what I meant by developers having a large market, and I should have made it more clear that I was talking about these things happening more within the next 2-3 years when I expect the 3DS revision to be released.