Topic: PSN = Privacy? Security? Never!

[BranDonk Kong]

Maybe he settles so he can sue Sony in turn? Either way, we're basically where we were before they ever went after him now, only he has to sit on the sidelines now. Is this disappointing? Possibly. We don't know why the parties settled, and possibly never will since they aren't allowed to talk about it, but either way it *looks* like a win for Sony.

Here is the thing that I still need to point out - he did NOT help anyone pirate anything, and his jailbreak DOES NOT enable piracy.

[Chozo Ghost]

In any case, I'm glad his life isn't going to be ruined because of this. Too many lives were ruined when the RIAA went after people for file-sharing a few years back. But unlike them, Hotz wasn't even stealing anything. He was only hacking hardware which he legally owned in order to use Linux.

[Morari]

Too many lives were ruined when the RIAA went after people for file-sharing a few years back. But unlike them, Hotz wasn't even stealing anything.

Consider that most P2P programs share WHATEVER is on your computer (and set themselves to run at startup), and it's pretty easy to see how a lot of people could have been unintentionally sharing music files.

Sadly, we don't know how many of those people were actually pirating media either. The RIAA scared just about every one of the accused into immediate settlement. It's likely that had more of the cases actually went to court, the RIAA's tactics would have been brushed aside real quick. I understand that most people don't have the finances (or the gall) to fight overblown legal battles against huge corporate entities, so they quickly fold instead. Of course, the RIAA has always known that as well. That's why their entire campaign relies on bullying random people into submission withou ever setting foot in court. They get their money without the fear of legally losing face.

Sony's game is the same and always has been. You need look no further than Bleem or Linksang to see it. And just like the media companies it's not about stopping piracy, it's about maintaining control over distribution channels. Ignoring emerging markets and suing anyone who tries to free up the market is a lot easier way to feed ones greed.

[BranDonk Kong]

The thing that really gets me about the RIAA, MPAA, and other related bullshit is this (and yes, it's suited for a different topic) - if you download a game, movie, or album over the internet, you can be sued by the RIAA, MPAA, etc, and sued for TONS of money. If you go to the store and steal a CD, game, or DVD, you might get arrested and get probation or something, but you will NOT be sued. So, piracy to them is just as bad as stealing from the store (which is a stretch already), but the punishment is exponentially more severe. It makes no sense.

[Chozo Ghost]

The thing that really gets me about the RIAA, MPAA, and other related bullshit is this (and yes, it's suited for a different topic) - if you download a game, movie, or album over the internet, you can be sued by the RIAA, MPAA, etc, and sued for TONS of money. If you go to the store and steal a CD, game, or DVD, you might get arrested and get probation or something, but you will NOT be sued. So, piracy to them is just as bad as stealing from the store (which is a stretch already), but the punishment is exponentially more severe. It makes no sense.

Its also just like how if you assault someone you don't know there's some severe punishment for that, but if you do the same thing to someone you live with its only considered "domestic abuse" and it has a separate and less severe punishment. I think that's a bunch of bullshit. So if a woman gets beat up by her husband the legal system won't do much about it. However, if that husband attacks some random person in public then the law will come down hard on him. The inconsistency just doesn't make any sense.

[Stogi]

This is severely disappointing. I was hoping this would set precedent for all home electronics, like the iPhone did for all phones.

A damn shame. A damn, damn shame.

Oh well, seeing the willingness of Sony to end the case soon (which is quite shocking) is basically a "white flag" to all hackers. They know they can't win in terms of precedent, so settlements is all they can afford.

I also think that GeoHotz came out on top. He knows how important his case was and to be struck with a permanent injunction means that he got something way better in return. Possibly a job.

[Morari]

The thing that really gets me about the RIAA, MPAA, and other related bullshit is this (and yes, it's suited for a different topic) - if you download a game, movie, or album over the internet, you can be sued by the RIAA, MPAA, etc, and sued for TONS of money. If you go to the store and steal a CD, game, or DVD, you might get arrested and get probation or something, but you will NOT be sued. So, piracy to them is just as bad as stealing from the store (which is a stretch already), but the punishment is exponentially more severe. It makes no sense.

That's when theoretical loss and damages come into play. You downloading that file has the potential to cause billions in damages... according to the MAFIAA.

[UncleBob]

The thing that really gets me about the RIAA, MPAA, and other related bullshit is this (and yes, it's suited for a different topic) - if you download a game, movie, or album over the internet, you can be sued by the RIAA, MPAA, etc, and sued for TONS of money. If you go to the store and steal a CD, game, or DVD, you might get arrested and get probation or something, but you will NOT be sued. So, piracy to them is just as bad as stealing from the store (which is a stretch already), but the punishment is exponentially more severe. It makes no sense.

It's about risk vs. reward.  Ultimately, the reward is the same - free media.  However, the pure act of downloading something from the internet has very, very little risk.  Compare that to the act of stealing physical media from a store - there's a lot of risk involved.  So, what the law needs to do (and I agree that it's currently not in balance), it needs to balance out the risk a bit.  If the chances of getting caught are much, much lower - you'll be more likely to consider it.  But if the punishment for getting caught is much, much worse, it'll make you think twice before doing it.

[Morari]

I don't know how much worse the the consequences could be without introducing capital punishment to the mix.

[UncleBob]

The problem with the current system is that the punishment is "YOU PAY BILLIONS YOU DON'T HAVE AND GO BANKRUPT HAHA WE WIN."

Seriously, for most people, there's no difference in a $100,000 fine and a $14 Million fine.

There needs to be some monetary reimbursement to the parties who have been wronged, but as for the deterrence part of the punishment, I'd prefer to see large amount of community service hours required.

[Stogi]

I think we are moving towards music being locally produced and self-promoted. The days of signing on to a label are becoming less and less significant. Labels do not know who to lash out to for declining sales, but it's definitely not the consumer. If the music is good, then we will see them in concert or promote it by word of mouth. The day of monopolizing the industry and using artists is over.

As for movies, I can understand why they are scared of piracy. Home theaters are the best way to see a movie now-a-days. No one goes to a movie unless they absolutely can't wait, want to see it in IMAX 3D, or want to go out for an old fashioned good time. Most people though, would much rather be home, chillin'; eating their own grub, drinking their own drinks, and having a ball. It's especially nice if the movie sucks, you can just change it and watch something else. Movie theaters don't allow you to do that.

That's why I think movie and movie theater's are scrambling to add 3D, in order to give that perception of value. If they can keep up that model where they are always one step ahead, then they will be fine. But that's incredibly tough to do. That's why I think, one day, movies will be available for rent through digital services at the same time it is released on the big screen. They're already moving towards it. DVD's are released much much sooner than they use to be. What use to be a year long wait is now only a few months. I don't see this coming for another 10 years, but it is coming to a head.

[SixthAngel]

Sony Computer Entertainment America (“SCEA”) and George Hotz (“Hotz”) today announced the settlement of the lawsuit filed by SCEA against Hotz in federal court in San Francisco, California. The parties reached an agreement in principle on March 31, 2011. As part of the settlement, Hotz consented to a permanent injunction.

The PS3 is already hacked, basically permanently, thanks to Geohot so isn't this injuction basically worthless?  This just looks like a way for
Sony to save face now that they are backing out of case that could set  a precedent they don't want.

As punishment for eating that piece of pie you can't eat that piece of pie!

[Chozo Ghost]

What would happen if he violated the injunction?

[UncleBob]

Sony Computer Entertainment America (“SCEA”) and George Hotz (“Hotz”) today announced the settlement of the lawsuit filed by SCEA against Hotz in federal court in San Francisco, California. The parties reached an agreement in principle on March 31, 2011. As part of the settlement, Hotz consented to a permanent injunction.

The PS3 is already hacked, basically permanently, thanks to Geohot so isn't this injuction basically worthless?  This just looks like a way for
Sony to save face now that they are backing out of case that could set  a precedent they don't want.

As punishment for eating that piece of pie you can't eat that piece of pie!

To be fair, if that temporary injunction is close to the one Holz agreed to, it prevents him from hacking any SONY products - including, presumably, future products.

[broodwars]

What would happen if he violated the injunction?

Major fines and possible incarceration for violating a court order.

[UncleBob]

What would happen if he violated the injunction?

Major fines and possible incarceration for violating a court order.

Bzzt.

It's an out of court settlement.  While what you stated *could* happen, what would likely happen is that it would end up back in court and SONY would use it as evidence that Hotz has already acted in bad faith.  Again, depending on the terms of the settlement - that we'll never know.

[Chozo Ghost]

Yeah, it was settled out of court so its not a court order thing. I'm sure if he wants to he can find a way to do it anonymously so that it can't ever be linked back to him.

[oohhboy]

I take back what I said about John Key giving the finger to the US. The NZ Parliament are a bunch of collective retards that make Ted "The internet is a bunch of tubes" Stevens look savvy. Passed 111-11 under urgency under the guise of an earthquake bill in a piece of disgusting politicking for an equally disgusting bill, debate was worse than non-existent:

"Do you remember the movie, the Terminator?" Mr Young asked, to loud guffaws. "I'm sure that you do, and the computer system called Skynet that ruled the world, is like the internet today."

MP Katrina Shanks "It is really important to remember that file sharing is an illegal activity."

Article #1 Original
Article #2 Commentary
Article #3 Some Analysis

I am too pissed off to write more on this. I know this is a Sony thread, but there just isn't anywhere else I could find to put this.

Now off to write letters to MPs and vote Green. Where the hell is Helen Clake when you need her.

[BlackNMild2k1]

"Do you remember the movie, the Terminator?" Mr Young asked, to loud guffaws. "I'm sure that you do, and the computer system called Skynet that ruled the world, is like the internet today."

MP Katrina Shanks "It is really important to remember that file sharing is an illegal activity."

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=33780.msg666648#msg666648

[Morari]

I take back what I said about John Key giving the finger to the US. The NZ Parliament are a bunch of collective retards that make Ted "The internet is a bunch of tubes" Stevens look savvy. Passed 111-11 under urgency under the guise of an earthquake bill in a piece of disgusting politicking for an equally disgusting bill, debate was worse than non-existent:

"Do you remember the movie, the Terminator?" Mr Young asked, to loud guffaws. "I'm sure that you do, and the computer system called Skynet that ruled the world, is like the internet today."

MP Katrina Shanks "It is really important to remember that file sharing is an illegal activity."

Article #1 Original
Article #2 Commentary
Article #3 Some Analysis

I am too pissed off to write more on this. I know this is a Sony thread, but there just isn't anywhere else I could find to put this.

Now off to write letters to MPs and vote Green. Where the hell is Helen Clake when you need her.

I read through it yesterday. The only thing that really makes it surprising is the way they snuck it through. It'll happen everywhere... the US has been fighting hard for it for some time now. Can we please stop pretending that we aren't living under corporate rule now?

[UncleBob]

I read through it yesterday. The only thing that really makes it surprising is the way they snuck it through. It'll happen everywhere... the US has been fighting hard for it for some time now. Can we please stop pretending that we aren't living under corporate rule now?

Before this gets too political, let me steal an old quote - the American people will elect the government they deserve.

[Morari]

You assume that elections work.

If voting had the power to change anything, it would be outlawed.

[Chozo Ghost]

So what's your opinion of that government shutdown thing?

[UncleBob]

What's your opinion of not purposely trying to steer a topic far off course by bringing up a completely unrelated political discussion?

Personally, I'm against that.

[Chozo Ghost]

Personally, I too am against political discussion, but after my post was deleted and I was warned I decided if you can't beat em might as well join them.