Poll

Which show should we watch/discuss first?

Simpsons Season 1
7 (43.8%)
Family Guy Season 1
2 (12.5%)
American Dad Season 1
1 (6.3%)
Futurama Season 1
6 (37.5%)
The Cleveland Show Season 1
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 16

Author Topic: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - Simpsons, Season 1  (Read 23267 times)

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Offline vudu

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Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
« Reply #50 on: January 26, 2011, 04:14:35 PM »
Continuity is generally a good thing.  But when the writers choose to ignore it, it gives them a lot of freedoms they wouldn't otherwise have--such as having Homer work for a James Bond villain for an episode.  A great idea doesn't necessarily have to be stifled because it doesn't fit with the continuity of the entire show.  This is especially true with cartoons--the fact that they're animated generally allows the viewer to be more-forgiving about over-arching story lines from episode to episode.
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Offline Shaymin

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Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
« Reply #51 on: January 26, 2011, 04:51:10 PM »
Remember when UPN tried to do prime time cartoons?

Yes, and I'm still pissed that they cancelled Dilbert.

Of course, they're no longer in existence.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
« Reply #52 on: January 26, 2011, 05:00:43 PM »
A good comedy doesn't need continuity.  But once continuity is established taking it away does not make any sense.  You either consider it important or you don't.  You don't just decide one day after adhering to it for years to remove it.  Or at least if you do such a thing you can expect some people to be put off by it.  It's like how South Park would have Kenny die in every episode with no explanation given as to how he was alive in the next episode.  It was funny so it didn't matter.  BUT it was also established from the very first episode that this was how it worked.  It isn't like one episode, several seasons in, Kenny died and then was back in the next episode with no explanation given.  If a non-Halloween episode of The Simpsons ended with Bart getting decapitated and then he was alive in well in the next episode with no explanation given it would probably kill off the show's viewership.

What I found so bizarre about the Principal Skinner thing is that who thought that was a good idea?  I think any intelligent person would figure that revealing that a regular character was in fact an imposter would turn off SOME viewers.  Is it really such a hilarious idea to take that kind of risk on?  Is it going to benefit the show in the long run or create all sorts of new episode ideas?  I mean shows change all the time.  We'll see new kids being born, characters getting married, characters switching to a new job.  There is a risk of turning off viewers with such a change but such a change can also allow for new storylines and ideas.  But with this Skinner thing it was a one-time episode.  You're going to completely change a character, with a really ridiculous storyline, for the pay off of ONE episode?  It's a huge risk with minimal reward.

Hell, retcons are rarely a good idea.  In real life people grow and change so if a character changes over time it is a least realistic.  Even if the character turns into someone the audience doesn't like they can keep the fond memories of the past.  When you change the past you piss all over those memories.  It's the difference between your wife leaving you or finding out your wife NEVER loved you and the whole thing was just a big trick.  How do you feel when you find out someone has been lying to you?  That's what a retcon basically is. 

So adding to the whole "who thought this Skinner thing was a good idea?" thing you're basically revealing to your audience that you have been LYING to them for 9 years.  Why would you think this would go over well?  On one hand the audience feels the same way the characters did except that the characters decide to just act as if the fake Skinner was the real one all along at the end.  The real audience can't do that.  You can write the characters to forget about the whole thing but you can't make the audience forget.  So we all feel like the characters do except the resolution for the characters does not apply to us.

Offline vudu

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Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
« Reply #53 on: January 26, 2011, 05:12:46 PM »
A good comedy doesn't need continuity.  But once continuity is established taking it away does not make any sense.  You either consider it important or you don't.  You don't just decide one day after adhering to it for years to remove it.  Or at least if you do such a thing you can expect some people to be put off by it.  It's like how South Park would have Kenny die in every episode with no explanation given as to how he was alive in the next episode.  It was funny so it didn't matter.  BUT it was also established from the very first episode that this was how it worked.  It isn't like one episode, several seasons in, Kenny died and then was back in the next episode with no explanation given.  If a non-Halloween episode of The Simpsons ended with Bart getting decapitated and then he was alive in well in the next episode with no explanation given it would probably kill off the show's viewership.

What about when Kenny died for real and was gone for most of--the entire?--season?  Continuity was introduced.  Then it was taken away again when he returned.

What about the fact that no one on the The Simpsons ages, despite seeing several birthdays during the nearly-20 seasons it's been on the air?  Does that bother you?
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Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
« Reply #54 on: January 26, 2011, 05:25:17 PM »
Actually, they did introduce a storyline reason for why Kenny kept dying and coming back with no one noticing (basically, it's a curse that when he is killed he will wake up in his bed the next day and no one else will remember it).

Some characters have aged in the 22 seasons. Homer was 34 when it started, now he is 39. Apu and Manjula and octuplets who are now about 1 or 2. As for most not aging though, they take care of that by trying not to use dates (Matt has said he was against stating that Homer and Marge graduated in 1974 for this very reason). So when season 1 happened, Bart's birth year was 1979. Now it would be 2001. One episode (called "That 90's Show") had Bart doubt the 1990s even being real, Home and Marge were telling the kids what they did in the 12 years between hooking up at senior prom and Bart being born.
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Offline King of Twitch

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Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
« Reply #55 on: January 26, 2011, 05:36:35 PM »
Ok but why are they all weird colors? It's hard to suspend disbelief when I see people with yellow skin and blue hair.
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Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
« Reply #56 on: January 26, 2011, 05:46:59 PM »
The same way people do with sci fi shows. It's easy to suspend disbelief when watching various Star Trek shows, despite weird looking creatures (yes I know they are not human).
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
« Reply #57 on: January 26, 2011, 05:51:15 PM »
Quote
What about when Kenny died for real and was gone for most of--the entire?--season?  Continuity was introduced.  Then it was taken away again when he returned.

What about the fact that no one on the The Simpsons ages, despite seeing several birthdays during the nearly-20 seasons it's been on the air?  Does that bother you?

If you started out not caring about continuity and then introduced it and then got rid of it that remains consistent with the established format of not caring about continuity.
 
No one on the Simpsons ever HAS aged so from the start that was an acceptable part of the reality of the show.  If they started aging that would be weird.  Continuity doesn't mean it has to follow real life, it just has to follow the reality that the show presents.  The Simpsons started off as a cartoon show with some semblance towards reality with a little bit of a cartoonishness like never-aging characters.  It was clearly less cartoony than something like Bugs Bunny though.  South Park started off from day one as a crazy anything-goes cartoon show (the first episode has ALIENS in it) so it always had more flexibility.
 
Continuity more or less means that your story does not contradict itself.  If you already established in your story that characters don't appear to age and have yellow skin and blue hair then those are not inconsistent with continuity.  Otherwise then Lord of the Rings has no continuity because there are no elves or hobbits or orcs in real life.
 
Futurama has the flexibility to do all sorts of crazy stuff but it still can't have Fry getting crushed by an anvil, saying "this means war!" and then being fine in the next scene without any explanation.  It's a cartoon but the reality of the show is such that Fry is supposed to be like an actual human being so he has follow different rules than Elmer Fudd does despite them both being cartoon characters.

Offline Ian Sane

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Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
« Reply #58 on: January 26, 2011, 06:37:43 PM »
I just thought of something that demonstrates the change in the tone of the Simpsons and why I no longer enjoyed it.

In the Frank Grimes episode Homer is annoying and unlikable.  He is also annoying and unlikable in the episode when him and Flanders are friends.  The endings of those episodes demonstrate the change in tone.  At the end of the Grimes episode Grimes is dead and yet Homer accidently sticks it to him one more time by snoring during his funeral which everyone finds funny.  At the end of the Flanders episode Ned loses his temper with Homer and points out to everyone in church how annoying he is.  But when the rest of the congregation gangs up on Ned, Homer is the only one who comes to his defense.  Despite being annoying and driving Ned crazy the whole episode Homer demonstrates that he is a decent guy.  That's what makes Homer likable and endearing.  He can be stupid and selfish at times but overall is a good person.  That's why you root for him.

That Homer would not lead someone into accidentally killing themselves and be so non-plussed by it.  That Homer would not turn Springfield into a giant garbage heap.  That Homer would throw back a giant catfish to prove his love to his wife.  That Homer would be bothered by the fact that he saved the power plant from meltdown by complete fluke.  That Homer was a real character with emotions and feelings and not just some big yellow gorilla who yells and does stupid stuff.  I don't just watch a show to see talking heads spout off jokes.  I also watch for the characters.

This is why so many people were turned off by the fake Skinner thing.  Skinner was a character that the viewers had come to known and have some sort of attachment to.  He was not just some drawing resembling a middle-aged man who spouted off funny lines.

Good writers can take an actor or a drawing and make them a character that you care about.  Bad writers just use them as a prop.

Offline UncleBob

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Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
« Reply #59 on: January 28, 2011, 08:06:12 PM »
I'm going to end the poll here in the next day or so - so get your vote in (or make a change).

For what it's worth, while I do like Futurama better, I really think we should do the Simpsons first.  It's the granddaddy of prime time cartoons! :D
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
« Reply #60 on: January 28, 2011, 09:01:48 PM »
Except I'd argue that the first season of The Simpsons is the worst season the show's had.
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
« Reply #61 on: January 29, 2011, 09:14:30 AM »
Except I'd argue that the first season of The Simpsons is the worst season the show's had.

ehh... Perhaps - but even if, we still have to get through Season 1 before we can do seasons 2-22...
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
« Reply #62 on: January 29, 2011, 04:02:38 PM »
Futurama Volume 5, used - $17.67.  Use coupon code JAN2DAY for 30% off - making the set $12.40. :D
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« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 04:05:58 PM by UncleBob »
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Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
« Reply #63 on: January 29, 2011, 04:03:36 PM »
Um, you forgot to mention where (not that I need it since I own it already).
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
« Reply #64 on: January 31, 2011, 12:06:58 AM »
Simpsons, Season 1 it is!  Everyone, go watch it, then come back and talk about it. :D
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - Simpsons, Season 1
« Reply #65 on: January 31, 2011, 12:16:23 AM »
It sucked. I can't believe you just made me sit though that whole thing.
The animation is bad, the characters look weird and even some of the voices sound off.
I think that covers most of it.

what did everyone else think?

Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - Simpsons, Season 1
« Reply #66 on: January 31, 2011, 12:42:10 AM »
I will post full comments about it tomorrow, but you are being way too harsh. The season was a little primitive, but it wasn't that bad. As for the voices, they were the same ones from the shorts. Homer's voice only changed because it was a little too hard to do certain stuff with the Matthau voice.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - Simpsons, Season 1
« Reply #67 on: January 31, 2011, 12:29:43 PM »
Every time I go back and watch Simpsons Season 1 I expect it to be really bad.  As a kid I hated when season 1 episodes came up in syndication.  But every time I watch it I still find myself having a good laugh here and there.  When the Simpsons was hot it was just non-stop funny.  You would miss stuff because you were laughing during the next joke.  With season 1 it's like they're not even trying to cram in that many jokes.  They're content with one joke every two minutes or so.  And then it's only funny maybe a third of the time.  Still I never hate watching it as much as I think I will.

One thing that is interesting to note is how the geography changed.  Homer is lying on the couch and there is a window facing outside behind him.  Huh?  Moe's has a saloon-style door.  It's just little stuff like that.

The storylines also seem more like that of a conventional cartoon show.  Bart being mistaken for a genius for example just reeks of something you would see in a weekday afternoon cartoon show aimed at kids.  No comedy for adults would have something like that.  It was partially through season 2 that it started to feel like the innovative comedy it became.  It's funny to think that it was THIS season that kicked off Simpsons-mania.  I was 8 years old at the time and The Simpsons were EVERYWHERE.  Any conceivable merchandise that could exist, did exist.  It was just unreal and it's so weird because it was after the initial "fad" calmed down that the show became really funny.

The Bleeding Gums Murphy episode is my least favourite of the season.  Hell prior to me losing interest in the show I considered it by far the worst episode of the show period.  It's just too serious of an episode.  My favourite would be the one where they go camping.  It is pretty silly at times but it's just the most consistently funny.  It also has the best gag of the season when Homer sets up a trap to catch their dinner and the trap flings the rabbit miles into the air.

Season 1 is like the original Metroid.  It's a rough first draft for a concept that became better later on and deserves a little slack as a result.

Offline Stogi

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Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - Simpsons, Season 1
« Reply #68 on: January 31, 2011, 01:19:56 PM »
Season 1 gets a derisive and in-your-face "meh".
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Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - Simpsons, Season 1
« Reply #69 on: January 31, 2011, 04:38:37 PM »
OK, first thing I should say is that people should buy the DVD. The episodes are really fun to watch while listening to the audio commentaries. They even include a ~12 minute long commentary for the original first episode "Some Enchanted Evening" (the animation was so terrible that they had to send it back to Korea to be re-animated, and said that the series would be canceled if the rest of the episodes looked like that because they didn't have the budget to redo all of them). The episodes may not be all that great looking since they were still getting used to it (the writers even admit that there were many weird looking people) and the voices were not quite set yet, but the foundations of the future were set. I like Bart rallying together almost all of the kids to finally take down Nelson, Homer redeems himself after a selfish birthday gift nearly causes Marge to have an affair, Lisa finds someone who shares her love of jazz and helps make her happy, and Bart getting Homer in trouble by taking a picture of Homer dancing with a stripper. I don't really care for "Call of the Simpsons" (the episode where they go camping and Homer gets mistaken for Bigfoot), and I wonder why Bart never used his French speaking skills again.
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Offline Dasmos

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Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - Simpsons, Season 1
« Reply #70 on: January 31, 2011, 05:00:41 PM »
Simpson Season 1: Smithers was originally a black guy. Otherwise it's **** and there's nothing of note.
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Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - Simpsons, Season 1
« Reply #71 on: January 31, 2011, 06:38:40 PM »
Only in the first episode, they fixed it for the rest of the season (for those that don't know, it was the Korean animators who did that. The producers have told fans to just pretend he returned from vacation with a deep tan).
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - Simpsons, Season 1
« Reply #72 on: January 31, 2011, 11:37:56 PM »
I haven't had a chance to sit down with Simpsons Season 1 yet, but word up - Best Buy has some two packs for $20.  American Dad 1&2, American Dad 3&4, King of the Hill 1&2, King of the Hill 3&4 and King of the Hill 5&6.

I dropped $60 on KotH... which makes me sad, knowing that 7-13 will never come out. :(
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Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - Simpsons, Season 1
« Reply #73 on: February 01, 2011, 12:42:43 AM »
Maybe Fox can let Amazon do Manufacture on Demand releases for them like they do for other TV shows? They wouldn't have any extras in any form, but they would at least legally be on DVD. I think Fox knew they weren't gonna bother with all of the seasons since the last couple of sets got lazier in effort.

I will probably pick up the American Dad! 3&4 set since I own the others.
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - Simpsons, Season 1
« Reply #74 on: February 01, 2011, 01:10:35 AM »
I think the best chance for a release would be through Shout! Factory.

It's my understanding that FOX started cutting the special features out to reduce their costs to make the sets worth while for FOX to sell.  And it did not.

It seems the internet thinks the series sold *respectable* numbers, just not Simpsons/Family Guy numbers - thus FOX just isn't interested in releasing more.  Someone like Shout! Factory should be all over this.
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