Topic: R4 Card Sales Outlawed in the UK

[Plugabugz]

People use R4 cus they can't afford games, ban R4 and they just won't buy games.

So how did you afford a £100+ handheld games console in the first place?

[NWR_Neal]

If you make backup copies of games you own and don't use ones you downloaded from the Internet, that's legal.

That is questionable at best and you know it.

Making backup copies of material you own is and has always been considered fair use. There's nothing questionable about it.

Legally there might be some grounds, but from Nintendo's viewpoint, R4 cards aren't under their jurisdiction, so they aren't seeing any money from their existence. This would be different if it were an open platform, but it's not. It's Nintendo's handheld, and they license everything out.

Legitimate usage of the R4 (backing up games) is kind of like the Tengen NES games, or at least that's how I see it. The big difference is that you can also use R4s to straight-up pirate games.

[TJ Spyke]

Tengen did release some legit NES games though, not all of their games were unlicensed (and after Nintendo easily crushed them in court, Tengen went back to only legally releasing games).

[AV]

People use R4 cus they can't afford games, ban R4 and they just won't buy games.

So how did you afford a £100+ handheld games console in the first place?

He steals it. DUh!

[KDR_11k]

There is no such thing as "can't afford games" (at least in the UK where this ban got put in place). I managed to get plenty of GB games throughout my childhood. There's flea markets and birthdays if your allowance isn't very high.

I say if the R4 is banned, then blank CDs and DVDs should be banned too, and CD and DVD burners. No different than the R4 - sure you can make your own movies and back stuff up, but lets be honest here, no one's buying a 100 pack of DVD-Rs or CD-Rs because they have important documents that they need to archive, it's because they don't like paying for music and movies.

There's a blank media levy on those things precisely to cover the losses from piracy.

[BranDonk Kong]

The real question is, what will they do to make sure this doesn't repeat on the 3DS? The firmware needs to be able to tell the difference between a real game card and a flashcard, and the card itself cannot be so easy to pirate. It's all well and good getting it outlawed, but it's a bit late now. Really, Nintendo should have clamped down on DS piracy years ago. It never should've gotten this out of hand. Fortunately, this was probably a big wake-up call to them, so I would expect them to be doing everything in their power to prevent this problem on the next handheld.

I was listening to IGN Nintendo Voice Chat, and they said several 3rd parties were saying that the 3DS will be basically impossible to hack and run backups, unsigned code, etc. Kind of sucks because it would be awesome to have some 3D homebrew, but 3rd parties deserve to be paid for their efforts.

[KDR_11k]

"impossible to hack" just means hacked a month later than usual.

[BranDonk Kong]

Well the GameCube took a while (though the Wii only took about 3 or 4 weeks, if that) and the PS3 is still basically unhacked for the most part, so it could be possible. I'm going to start some computer programmings classes soon and I'd love to try some stuff out on the 3DS, maybe I'll just have to get a devkit.

[TJ Spyke]

The PS3 was fully hacked a few months ago, but it did take a few years.

Brandogg, I am not sure how likely you will be able to get a devkit. No doubt it is a few thousand dollars, but you need to be a developer for Nintendo to approve your application.

[BranDonk Kong]

I don't think they'll cost that much, especially if the system is going to retail for around the same price as the DSi...also, PS3 really hasn't been fully hacked. Sure GeoHot (and maybe a couple people close to him) managed to get OtherOS installed with the 3.21 update...but that's about it. You can run PS2 backups from a USB hard drive too, but that is only because of backwards compatibility (and being backwards compatible with Swap Magic DVDs), not really any hacks.

[TJ Spyke]

The DS development kit is $2,030 per devkit, and you need to be a registered developer with Nintendo before you can buy one. Expect the 3DS one to be the same or more. Average people like you and I can't just ask Nintendo if we can buy one. Even if you have the money, if you are not a registered developer then they will not even consider selling you one

The PS3 has been hacked and was done so back in January.

[BranDonk Kong]

Wow, that's a high price tag. I figured since I see Xbox 360 dev kits go for $700 tops, than a 3DS wouldn't be any more than that. Again though, PS3, yeah GeoHot got OtherOS (and Hello World displayed in the XMB) back on it...and that's about it. There's no homebrew, no backups, nothing new that you couldn't do before.

[BlackNMild2k1]

The PS3 has been hacked and was done so back in January.

Links or it didn't happen.

[TJ Spyke]

Wow, that's a high price tag. I figured since I see Xbox 360 dev kits go for $700 tops, than a 3DS wouldn't be any more than that.

I am not sure the exact price, but a Xbox 360 development kit costs several thousand dollars. I remember developers even commenting on how much cheaper the Wii SDK was compared to Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 (Wii SDK is about $2,000 as well).

[BranDonk Kong]

I could get a 360 devkit for like $400-500 if I wanted one.

[TJ Spyke]

Maybe if you can find someone selling you a used one they have (which they could get in trouble with Microsoft if they found out). The only legal way to get a new one is from Microsoft, and only if they approve your application and the cost more than $400-500.

[BlackNMild2k1]

The PS3 has been hacked and was done so back in January.

Links or it didn't happen.

....

[Stogi]

One dude (the same dude that hacked the iPhone) hacked the PS3, but he hasn't shared the exploit yet.

[TJ Spyke]

Apparently he won't bother trying to get around the update Sony did to remove OtherOS either, he posted on his Twitter account the he basically has "retired".

[BlackNMild2k1]

I don't think they'll cost that much, especially if the system is going to retail for around the same price as the DSi...also, PS3 really hasn't been fully hacked. Sure GeoHot (and maybe a couple people close to him) managed to get OtherOS installed with the 3.21 update...but that's about it. You can run PS2 backups from a USB hard drive too, but that is only because of backwards compatibility (and being backwards compatible with Swap Magic DVDs), not really any hacks.

The PS3 has been hacked and was done so back in January.

One dude (the same dude that hacked the iPhone) hacked the PS3, but he hasn't shared the exploit yet.

That dude has been mentioned (I even posted it on here back when it happened) and he hasn't really shared his "hack" like you said. I waiting on this "Hacked PS3" info that TJ was referring to since he makes it seem like the system has been open since January.

[KDR_11k]

It was some exploit in the OtherOS installer that allows circumventing the hypervisor. As a response Sony disabled OtherOS in a firmware update.

[BranDonk Kong]

Sure it's for a used devkit, but these things get bought and sold and passed around all the time. You won't get in trouble with Microsoft, worst case scenario the system gets banned from Xbox Live and the developer networks (forget what it's called), but I could get one that works on both for $800 tops.

[TJ Spyke]

A developer is only allowed two dev kits from Microsoft, and I have no doubt each one is tracked. I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft cuts off a developer that is caught giving or selling a dev kit to someone else. Besides, they would be useless to non-licensed developers as you could not make a legal game with it.

Just because Sony issued a patch to fix it doesn't change the fact that the PS3 was hacked.

[BranDonk Kong]

But it was never actually hacked, at least not in any useful way. GeoHot released his docs, and no one has come up with anything.

You can make legal games on a "hot" devkit, you just can't get Microsoft to sign your code. Lots of people make great use of actual devkits, and they aren't licensed developers.

[TJ Spyke]

Considering those people don't legally have the right to have those dev kits, and they are making games that you can't play without hacking your system; I am not sure what is the point. While I guess it may not be technically be illegal, both the seller of the XDK and the buyer can get in trouble (the seller may lose the right to develop Xbox 360 games, and the buyer will have that kit banned and will never be allowed to make a licensed game). The fact that these people can make Community games using XNA means they have no excuse for illegally obtaining a XDK (since the seller does't actually have the right to sell it).