Topic: Downsides of Online Gaming (from an experienced online PC gamer)

[Wesisapie]

I have been playing online games for PC for like what, 5 years or so. There are however, many reasons that i don't feel as inclined to play online games anymore:

1. Bad communities - they may have heaps of people in them, but when all these people are complete wankers, it isn't really that much fun. Counter-strike is probably a great example of this. The game is ok, maybe even good, but when coupled with a bunch of campers and elitists, it's easy to see why it has such a following of haters. Those 10 year olds kids yelling into their microphones don't help either.

2. Repetitivity - It is cool when you first start playing games online, but after a while this "cool i'm playing against actual people" becomes pretty dull. Also, see above point for reasons. The originality of new online games is also slipping.

3. Everyone wants to be "the hero", but in online games, you realise you're just another nerd playing a game online.

4. Lack of co-operation: closely tied with point #1, there is no point making team based games when everybody plays "Lone Wolf"

So in conclusion, the only game worth playing online is DOOM II. The best way to play this is dialing up directly to their modem. Co-op of course.

P.S.  This is about online PC gaming, console online gaming may not have the same problems.

[BlkPaladin]

One of the biggest problems for online console gaming is the players who use "game enhancers". It can totally wreck almost any game.

And then you have the campers etc and every other problem under the sun.

[Grey Ninja]

I hate Counterstrike just as much as the next guy.  (Just had to say that)

But to quote penny arcade.... online gaming would be cool if it weren't for all the people.

[Mario Menace]

  The problem that I am starting to see with online gaming is that the single player experience in games seems to not be as fully developed.  It seems to me that developers are starting to become too dependent on the online aspect of gaming therefore not spending nearly as much time developing story lines, good computer A.I., etc.    Also the length of single player games seem to be getting shorter and shorter because depelopers have the attitude of "oh well, once they'll beat single player in a day but they'll play online for months.   Well I want better single player apspects of games.

 Another thing is that playing with or against "Joe Shmoe" from timbucktwo is not as fun as playing with your buddies in the same room.   I remember spending countless hours with my friends playing Goldeneye and trash talking each other as we play.   To me THAT is what multi-player gaming is all about!  It's the comraderie you develop with your friends while playing.  Not with complete strangers.

[Uglydot]

If you don't know the guy, you may as well be playing against bots.  The only difference is that the name is probably something stupid and his pathing is different, for better or worse.  I played CS online for about a month and got sick of muting mics.  Not I play mulitplayer PC games exclusivly with my clan, about 14 dedicated gamers who can insult, yell and frag just as much as I can.  Console gaming benefits from the lack of a keyboard at times IMO.

[Locke Cole]

Quote
Originally posted by: Grey Ninja
I hate Counterstrike just as much as the next guy.  (Just had to say that)

But to quote penny arcade.... online gaming would be cool if it weren't for all the people.

What do you mean Grey, you don't like Counterstrike at all?  Anyways, I can agree with that list that gets me angry when I play that game.  Thats why I only play on like adult servers beacause they kick people who act like a a$$.  Hopefully if Nintendo goes online, they'll find a way for players to vote against people who act like them.  

[adamhap]

I have never gotten into the recent online gaiming scene but I do remember playing online with Doom and Warchaft2 using the Dial-up route.  Where you and a buddy or 2 would set up a machine (one of the groups) to listen for the others to dial into you and then you play on your own terms with no one else suddenly jumping in.  I really hope Nintendo allows for IP entering with their Lan plans becuase you could do this by just knowing someones IP.  It is just more fun when it is with people you know.

Adam

[BlackGriffen]

If they're only explicitly supporting LAN play, and not internet, then it won't be up to Nintendo to block wankers. It will be up to the type of connection software you use. I believe that Gamespy runs something, and you could probably set up your own virtual private network, if you know what you're doing.

BlackGriffen

[RickPowers]

Let me just get something straight about "campers".  In a game like Counterstrike, camping is not only acceptable strategy, but there are times when it's the smart thing to do.  It makes me laugh when people accuse the sniper on our team of camping.  What the hell else is a SNIPER to do?!?

Sure, maybe it's not the most friendly thing to do in a game like Quake, maybe, but my suggestion is to just get over it.  camping is strategy.  Maybe YOU don't like it, but then maybe the smart thing for you to do would be to learn the maps, find the favorite camp spots, and flush out the campers with a rocket or two.  Seems to me that if you're always getting picked off by campers, you just aren't playing the game smart.

[DRJ]

Online games would be a lot funner if you could keep people from cheating. I love playing Diablo II LOD online, but every other person is using some cheating patch. In some cases they use a map hack so they can see everything, a worse one was a telekenesis hack which allowed people to pick up items from a distance with a magic item (which they could do normally) the cheat was that the computer would pick up the item instantly so before you even see the item its gone.

Warcraft III is fun too but everybody uses a map hack so they can see your entire army while they are still hidden.

Playing Mario Kart or F-Zero online would be fun, but action replay or some other company would make cheating programs, so your playing fair, but someone else makes their cars go faster or something else to give them an unfaire advantage. It just ruins it for everyone and there is no way to really stop it.

I like the lan idea a little better since you can play with your friends.  Isnt the point of playing these multi player games to be able to make fun of your friends after you completely own them in a game. You cant really do that online with people you dont know.

[WesDawg]

I ain't played much online in recent years, but with the crappiness of AI nowadays, it sure sounds neat to be able to play against real people. Then I remember getting my ass kicked in GoldenEye by a bunch of 12 year olds and I figure maybe I should just stick to playing people I know.

[dmcollin]

well in regards to the camping remarks, i have to say from playing cs from beta 4.0 on that camping tends to ruin the game especially with a gun like the awp which is so clearly the best weapon in the game (my beloved deagle has been castrated with  every release since 1.0 on).  Anyone can easily learn how to use it and with the pistol switch script it makes it to easy to kill.  CS is the only game in which you can run around scoped with a sniper rifle then make a quick stop and have a perfect shot.  If you ever play on servers with extremely good players you will see that majority of people use the awp and colt just because they can kill so easily in almost any situation.

Anyways the main problem with online gaming is that it realy requires high bandwidth to play at an acceptable level for most games.  Until broadband becomes more ubiquitous and modem speed increases there will not be enough people to use it to make a profit from it.  If you look at the xbox most people who use their live service are very experience computer users who also do pc online gaming.  Also if microsoft changes over to a monthly subsription you will see people leave the service quickly.

[Ninja X]

Can't people send viruses to your PC through online gaming?  Can the same happen with the PS2, Xbox, or if Nintendo adopts an online service, GCN?

[dmcollin]

no, well not really, there is some concern that they can use your comp though for dos (denial of service: aka ping of death) attacks.

[RickPowers]

well in regards to the camping remarks, i have to say from playing cs from beta 4.0 on that camping tends to ruin the game especially with a gun like the awp which is so clearly the best weapon in the game (my beloved deagle has been castrated with every release since 1.0 on). Anyone can easily learn how to use it and with the pistol switch script it makes it to easy to kill. CS is the only game in which you can run around scoped with a sniper rifle then make a quick stop and have a perfect shot. If you ever play on servers with extremely good players you will see that majority of people use the awp and colt just because they can kill so easily in almost any situation.

If you think camping ruins the game because the weapons are off-balanced, blame Valve, not the players.  What I don't understand is that you then back that comment up saying that you can "run around" with the sniper rifle, stop briefly, and get a kill.  Again, sounds like a problem with game balance, not with the players.

[Caster13]

Quote
Originally posted by: RickPowers
Let me just get something straight about "campers".  In a game like Counterstrike, camping is not only acceptable strategy, but there are times when it's the smart thing to do.  It makes me laugh when people accuse the sniper on our team of camping.  What the hell else is a SNIPER to do?!?

Yes, in real life, snipers do sit in one place for a while, but in a game, it just gets tedious and annoying. Real police officers do not just sit outside the building where a criminal is holding a hostage. Real terrorists don't hide in a corner when they have a freaking bomb to plant. Real counter-terrorist operatives dont sit in the far end of the building when there's a primed bomb about to blow.

Counter-Strike is not a deathmatch game where the objective is to kill as many people as fast as possible. It's a game with objectives that you are suppose to follow.

Quote
Originally posted by: RickPowers
If you think camping ruins the game because the weapons are off-balanced, blame Valve, not the players. What I don't understand is that you then back that comment up saying that you can "run around" with the sniper rifle, stop briefly, and get a kill. Again, sounds like a problem with game balance, not with the players.

I agree with you on this though. Many people will agree the AWP/AWM is overpowered, but hell, some people learn to live with it. I've learned to take care of these guys without too many problems.

[mouse_clicker]

Camping really is a good strategy- I played Unreal Championship with a friend of mine on XBox Live for hours. We were playing instagib capture the flag and my friend (who's currently the leader of a fairly large clan) taught me all the great camping spots. In one particular game we were playing against some *exceptionally* good people and they flushed me out of that camping spot almost as soon as I got there. Sure camping may be kind of cheap if you sit there the entire game, but really the only people complaining are the ones who aren't doing anything about it.

[EggyToast]

Exactly.  Sniper rifles are designed by developers to be awful for melee and only useful for camping.  And shotguns and machine guns are awful for long-range attacks.  Any developer who's attempting to make a multiplayer game, especially with online play (since there are then so many people who play and will talk about what to exploit), should set up a game so that it's balanced both in weapons and things like spawn locations.  In other words, players should either spawn with weapons that DO something, or should spawn in a hard-to-camp location with good access to weapons (so they don't spawn then die then spawn then die).

So a lot of that balancing lies on the developer.  You'd be surprised how many people claim someone's cheating just because they're playing a game well, or exploiting an unbalanced weapon.  For instance, the rockets in TS2 are *perfect*, because they arc upwards as they move forward so it's very hard to peg someone from a distance, and they don't move super-fast.  I actually think TS2 has a very good weapon balance.

But yeah, the problems with online gaming certainly boil down to "lame gamers" and "lack of innovation in new games."

[Locke Cole]

Quote
Originally posted by: Caster13
I agree with you on this though. Many people will agree the AWP/AWM is overpowered, but hell, some people learn to live with it. I've learned to take care of these guys without too many problems.

Same here, I play too often with awpers, when they shoot me down I get angry and remember where they were last time.  Then all I do is bring nades and just kill them easily.  Anyways you can do something about the campers, just fight back and don't complain.  

[EggyToast]

Quote
Originally posted by: Caster13


Yes, in real life, snipers do sit in one place for a while, but in a game, it just gets tedious and annoying. Real police officers do not just sit outside the building where a criminal is holding a hostage.

Heh, actually, they do.

Quote

Real terrorists don't hide in a corner when they have a freaking bomb to plant. Real counter-terrorist operatives dont sit in the far end of the building when there's a primed bomb about to blow.

Hide and sit, perhaps not, but real terrorists tend to be as sneaky as possible.  They don't take a gun and go up against military personnel.  They try to go undetected as long as possible and then BOOM.  So they really woudln't fit into a video game well, unless you're playing "Police Profile Simulator -- catch the bad guy without firing a shot!"

And bomb-squads tend to send in 1 or 2 personnel to deactivate the bomb, but if it's ready to blow, they send in a bomb robot, or empty the building.  Again, making sure a building is evacuated while your robot wheels up tot he bomb isn't exactly good game material

[manunited4eva22]

I disagree about the Unreal games and camping. That is one game where moving is definately a advtange. I have seen fatal1ty online in the past, and to be frank the guy NEVER stops moving. He knows the map inside and out and in the rare case a camper gets him, he pretty much always knows where they came from. The style of the game determines the effectiveness of camping.

Games where camping is effective: in general games with a very slow tempo, games that tend to be more on the 'realistic' side. Large spread out levels and moderate numbers of players also make camping and sniping easier. Games like Rainbow Six, America's Army, etc.

Games where camping is just stupid: games with extremely fast paces or games with many people. Also games that have little space to roam make it difficult for snipers.  

[Grey Ninja]

Just a note on campers.

I play a lot of America's Army.  The game has a different philosophy on campers than most games.  Each round has a time limit of about 8 to 10 minutes.  It's perfectly acceptable to wait for about half of that time in an effort to deplete the enemy of resources.

Snipers almost never get accused of camping, as they are meant to be held in the back, under the cover of the riflemen.

People playing the defense are meant to be campers as it's good strategy, and their job is to stop the assault team, not attack.

However, genuine campers are often votekicked, as the situation is different for them.  They will be playing on the assault side, and when time is very short and they are still back at the spawn point doing dick all, or running the wrong way, they are obviously not an asset to the team.  I will always boot such a person.  If they are on defense though, it's an entirely different case.

[GeN]

Well cheaters that play online games are just something were gonna have to live with. They aren't going anywhere. Saying online gaming would be better without cheaters is like saying the world would be a better place without criminals. Yes it's true it would but it will never happen and we have to find a way to live with them.

[LRonHoover]

First off I am down with CS. Sure there are annoying players, of all ages, but there are always other servers. The beauty about these "other" servers are that they are free. Obviously someone pays for them, but chances are not you and definitely not Valve. Nintendo feels and Microsoft knows that server maintenance and bandwidth is not cheap. So here is my brilliant plan.


Nintendo develops and markets a "cube server". Of course I don't know all the technical details but a larger cube throw in a hard drive charge ?$200-$300?. Owner pays for bandwidth, etc. and Nintendo provides server interface software. Yes, No, Maybe? Anyways my two cents.

[Scyth3r]

Blah blah blah.  Same discussion over and over again.  

It's always nice to have the option of internet gameplay than not having it all.