Topic: Downsides of Online Gaming (from an experienced online PC gamer)

[Wesisapie]

The reason people camp is that they aren't good enough at rushing, and they get killed every time. So they make up the excuse of "playing smart". "Playing smart" is no fun. Go play raven shield or something if you want that. Counter-strike used to be a fun game before all the campers came along and claimed to be master strategists. If you see the best of the best, usually they are people who rush, find cover to reload, rush, and so on. Camping is not a strategy, it's stupidity.

[Grey Ninja]

Quote
Originally posted by: Wesisapie
The reason people camp is that they aren't good enough at rushing, and they get killed every time. So they make up the excuse of "playing smart". "Playing smart" is no fun. Go play raven shield or something if you want that. Counter-strike used to be a fun game before all the campers came along and claimed to be master strategists. If you see the best of the best, usually they are people who rush, find cover to reload, rush, and so on. Camping is not a strategy, it's stupidity.

There's some truth to that.  Nothing makes me feel so good as to blow through a bunch of camping assault people on the "Bridge" map in America's Army, and climb their tower and shoot them in the back.  When I can pull it off, I feel like I am king of the world.    When I stay far back and pick off the assault people struggling to cross the bridge, I feel like a coward.

[EggyToast]

Well, when you grow up in a culture where the billboards, tv commercials, video games, and movies all tell you "there is only 1 hero, 1 number 1.  There is no second best.  Only win or lose," of course you're going to play games and feel bad about playing a 'support role.'  

That's why most online games don't go past non-team deathmatch -- everyone wants to get the most kills, the least deaths, and "win."  Very rarely does someone enjoy sitting back and playing transport, or sniper, because they're not the 'glory' roles.  The glory roles are rambo -- 1 person gone crazy and killing dozens of people without getting hit.

blah blah blah.  Glory is lame.

[oohhboy]

Hehe Rambo. I do that all the time in CS excpet for the bit about not getting hit but I surive. Campers are not that trouble some as long as one moves fast and erraticly. It also helps to know where they are. I tend to shun online play as cheaters make asses of themselfs and screw up the gameplay. Camping is CS is a valid tactic, but people who use it as thier only move(Or lack of move) only end up with a general lack of skills as they rely heavyly on luck. I preffer LAN over online over split-screen as it allows real time chat with facials with no lag. Nothing beats having single handly wiping out the other team and letting out a loud MMAaaahaaaa!!!!11

[EggyToast]

I'd also say that complaining about "jumping" instead of simply "strafing" is sort of a cop-out -- it's  a new, valid movement for FPS that helps make the game a bit more 3d, and ti's not "cheap," rather just something new.  I agree that jumping and rocketting the ground is cheap, but jumping itself (and not jumping) is more of a strategy.  If you *can* jump, why don't you jump over the rockets?

[Syl]

Alright, I'm going be mentioning this from a Diablo II point of view.
Never being a fan of counterstrike.
nor pure PVP play, More of a fan of Co-op.

I played diablo II for over a year and a half.  Itemwise, I got rather wealthy.  Friends wise, I had too many to count, and was angry at the 25 person limit on buddy list.  Character wise, I have 12 level 85+

I even wrote my own guide for the spearazon (with the help of aprof), and its hosted on the best diablo II site on the net.
http://www.diabloii.net/strategy/x-guides/spearazon.php
(my name IS misspelled in the top corner, don't think it was even noticed when it was posted)

anyway, I started playing diablo II because, the first few times through, it was interesting.  I then was gave enough items to last me... just about forever, and i started to worry about character devolopment more than the actual game about halfway through my career.

Now, as far as hacked items and idiots go.  Diablo II is FULL of them.
quoting a signature "If idiots could fly, Diablo II would be an airport"

I play 100% legit, I have STILL never owned any sort of hacked, or duped item.  most of my equipment i found myself, most of my major items i found myself, for fear that the ones i trade for would either be duped or botted.

Now, the last few months i played, i was in a few clans (namely midnightmf and http://www.theamazonbasin.com ) and they too, inforced "legit" rules.  

I stopped playing public games near the end of my career.  After i created the blender class (my pride and joy) and after playing for a year and a half, the amount of hacking/annoying people got to me.  but, more importantly.  The game got boring.

When 1.1 comes out, I'm going to start playing diablo II again.  Lets hope blizzard fixed the problems that plagued the original so much.  

I still have yet to play any sort of online game on a console.  Simply because the only one that I can with my current systems is PSO.

Online gaming has become more of a hacker's way to make money than anything else.  Thats why i tend to play private games,   I however, love online gaming.  The amount of people you meet there, comparing the good to the bad, makes it definately worth it.

[Tael]

Quote
Originally posted by: GeN
Well cheaters that play online games are just something were gonna have to live with. They aren't going anywhere. Saying online gaming would be better without cheaters is like saying the world would be a better place without criminals. Yes it's true it would but it will never happen and we have to find a way to live with them.

What about PunkBuster? It does a fine job of getting rid of cheats in RTCW and the Enemy Territory test.

[corwin]

Well I agree with Wesisapie.
When Doom2 was there I had some much fun playing co-op.
While deatchmatch, or team-deatchmatch is very basic, (almost too basic.....kill everybody who is not you, or kill everybody who is not your team) co-op teamplay is something you can create a whole new gameplay on. (i.e. "you press that switch and then I sneak trough the door that opens for only one second")

I still think games are there too dive into another world, with you as the hero. I think mass-multiplayer games won't make it in the long run... I played multiplayer games on PC for quite some time (quake3arena, unreal tournament,counterstrike etc. etc.) and I was shocked how much more fun I had playing metroid prime...my first game on gamecube.

If you think about it, there have not been much co-op games, and way too much multiplayer games, where you just shoot eachother in some place, with some character. I don't know about you, but I'am fed up with that. I want a good story, a world that's about to die with you as the world last hope.....and maybe you and someone else..!

[ZebulahnX]

The thing that bothers me the most about online games are the cheaters.  And playing console games online is pointless without a headset.  Putting down a controller just to use a keyboard sucks.

[EggyToast]

I'm with you Corwin.  Games that are made solely for online play that simply set up the basics for players to do with as they see fit are fine for a quick fix, or for that arcade-like excitement at home.  But a good game where you sit back and enjoy yourself as the game unfolds and you gradually get better?  Very, very rare with online games.  As I said above, in online games, everyone wants to be the hero; you couldn't get a team of 5 characters together that didn't all do hero-like things.

At least with 1p games (like Metroid and Zelda), the developers have tried their hardest to make the whole experience very involving and, compared to most online multiplayer games, the quality shows -- I can't count the number of bugs and exploits I've heard about (and seen in many cases) for online FPSs, let alone RPGs.  Not to mention that if you don't feel like getting all buddy-buddy with some other people online, you're basically 1 guy going up against huge clans of people who train together, and you get blasted because all the people like you experienced the same thing and never bother to play anymore.  

[NickNiteQ93]

Man I hate campers.  Honestly after I read about what Doom III's multiplayer's gonna be like, I do NOT want to play it.  They're actually incouraging campers by letting you shoot out the lights, ala Splinter Cell.  Hide in the shadows by the BFG and kill everything and everyone.  I'm sure id will come up with some sort of solution, but as it's been said, there's always a way to f*** up every online game on the PC.  I hated playing games like Diablo online, people ask to fight, and they've got like 5 billion hit points and an axe that deals 17 trillion points in damage.  how lame?  o0o0o0o0o0o mi oobur sord kikd ur a$$.  Woppdee doo.  I think they should have id scanners for PCs or something so that the loser 10 year olds will stay off.  

[Grey Ninja]

Quote
Originally posted by: EggyToast
I'd also say that complaining about "jumping" instead of simply "strafing" is sort of a cop-out -- it's  a new, valid movement for FPS that helps make the game a bit more 3d, and ti's not "cheap," rather just something new.  I agree that jumping and rocketting the ground is cheap, but jumping itself (and not jumping) is more of a strategy.  If you *can* jump, why don't you jump over the rockets?

It's fine for games like Quake and Unreal Tournament.  They don't strive for any kind of accountability to the laws of physics.  For a game that's supposed to be realistic however, it's completely stupid.

Try carrying a 50 pound rifle and a backpack full of ammo, supplies, etc. around a battlefield for a while.  During this time, you will be jumping around like you are Mario looking for a hidden coin box.  Do you seriously think that you would last more than 3 minutes before having a heart attack or passing out due to exhaustion?

It's NOT a realistic tactic.  If you are on the battlefield, you will be wanting to find cover, and move up the battlefield bit by bit until you are close enough to make the enemy feel your wrath.

THIS is what America's Army tries to show.  And this is also the reason that fatigue is in the game.  It's impossible to jump around like a loon for 10 minutes straight in real life, and it's impossible in the game.  I have no complaints whatsoever with that.  Counterstrike is not for someone who wants a realistic experience at all, although it tries to sell itself as such from time to time.

[ThePerm]

fuck Counter Strike.. damn that mod. Play classic Half-Life. Gausers, snipers, a motly crew of people runnign around like crazy kickign ass. Sometimes ill call my freidn and we'll start a clkan match...and we'll be talking on the phone planning our attacks ...kicking ass.

[colmag]

The guy that started this thread hit the nail on the head.

I've been playing online for about 5years, and for the first few it was fantastic.  It's degenerated to the point now where i don't play online at all.  At first it was fresh, and the it cost a reasonable amount to play, so people respected it.  Now pretty much anyone can play, and unmetered connections mean twats can spend all day on their, without fear of their dad's bending them over 'cos of the phone bill.

I bought an MS Gamevoice, and have only used it once.  You get 15 people on a server using it properly, and 1 person broadcasting random screams and insults to everyone, and the game is destroyed.

Something else i've missed is the "story".  I'm really back into single player gaming now, and realise how much the plots add to the games.  GTA VC, Zelda, FF etc. are so immersive.  I'm just glad that id have reverted back to making single player games.  

[BlackGriffen]

The solution, as mentioned, is private servers. Stuff like bnetd (before Blizzard sued them *grrrrrr* ) where you have complete control of the server, and can limit the use to a select group of friends and invites.

BlackGriffen  

[colmag]

I should probably have said in my previous post, that online gaming really comes into it's own if you join a clan.  It doesn't even have to be a good clan.  The very fact that you're part of a regular team, playing other teams, changes the games completely (for the better).

[manunited4eva22]

Clans are okay, but really if you aren't in a good clan you never improve.  

[Nintendo Gamecube]

Campers, stop complaining about them. Camping, as told numerous times before, is a smart tactic (if not the smartest). It allows the person to play on his gorund, where he has already established positioning, rather then wildly running into enemy territory. If you get annoyed by them, simply learn their spots and pick them off, either close up or from a distance according to the weapon they have. And if you cannot deal with that, stop playing on the server. Find another one or make your own. Or simply stop playing humans and play AI.

Which brings me to another point, someone pointed out that playing AI is the same as playing any human on the internet. How wrong you could be. The human mind is much more complex and developed than AI is and ever will be. Humans have the aiblity to memorize and learn your tactics, and adapt to them. AI have a set mode of their abilities and cannot change any more than the programmers will them to. Humans on the other hand adapt, learn, and increase in skill. Humans have an unlimited amount of room to improve, whereas AI's are limited to the progamming they are built on. In addition, you can communicate with humans, whereas computers have built in quotes.

Hacking, is another issue. I think someone pointed it out best. They will always be there, just as there will always be criminals on Earth. The best thing to do is accept it, and fight against it rather than complaining about it.

Just a side note, why is it referred as hacking? There are merely scirpts, whcih modify the game to your advantage.

[mouse_clicker]

"I have seen fatal1ty online in the past, and to be frank the guy NEVER stops moving."

Hehe- speaking of fatal1ty, a good friend of mine's cousin is best friends with him. He lives in Wichita, Kansas, I believe (I live in Derby Kansas, a suburb of Wichita), and his actual name is Myron.

[ThePerm]

camping...there is no camping when theres a gause gun around.....!

[Uglydot]

When I said playing online people is similar to bots, I was getting at the relationship you have with them.  MANY people don't talk during games unless they know the other guy, and if they do, it is questionable whether your not you want to listen.  I know that people adapt and such, and that is the big difference.  Also, many people fall into set paths that are simply changed every so often, just because they CAN adapt to a situation, doesn't mean they will.  I do prefer playing real online foes to AI bots, but many times, the difference is small, just a matter of the skill level of the human.

[ThePerm]

because dial up sucks cock and you should have some form of broadband by now...call you freidns when you play online..or get one of those broadcaster dealies....you can always talk to your freinds...on a pc you can stop and type to your enemies whenever you know your clear.