Topic: Ideas for Super Mario RPG 2

[Kytim89]

I was playing Super Mario RPG the other day on the virtual console and I am almost at the end of the game. So far I am impressed with a game as old as this one. Square knew how to make a lasting RPG back in the day and they did with this one. I like this game so much that wish to discuss ideas for a sequel.
 
Story: Queen Smithete, the wife and co-ruler of Smithy, enters the Mushroom Kingdom to seek revenge against Mario for destroying her husband his army of machines. The Star Road gets broken again, except this time Smithete manages to capture the stars and wish her husband back from the dead. They then go to wish for their army to conquer Mario's world. From here Mario must team up with his old pals and restore his world from ruin and defeat Smithy and his gang once again.
 
Playable characters:
 
Mario
Luigi
Mallow
Geno
Peach
Bowser
Yoshi
Toad
 
Smithy Gang:
 
Smithy: Ressurected mid-game by his his wife, Smithete. In doing so some of the star power upgrades him and makes him more powerful than before.
 
Smithete: The wife of Smithy and queen ofthe machine mades. During the first game she was over seeing the expansion of the Smithy Empire into another dimension. Once the word got out that her husband was defeated she chose to seek revenge for his death. She eventually rules the Mushroom Kingdom at her husband's side.
 
Ticker: A loyal servant to the court of Smithy. An antrhopomorphic robotic clock that has a paticualr emotion for each hour on his face. Suffers from multiple personality disorder.
 
Kamikaze: A giant missle that is always seconds from exploding but the other machines mange to calm him down before he detonates and destroys everything around him. Mario and his eventually face him in Bowser's Keep and he explodes destroying his castle in the process.
 
Calibur and Calipor: A duo involving two robots. One robot, Calibur, is a hulking behemoth with lots of guns and cannons that can level an entire city. However, he is very stupid and thus depends on his smaller partner, Calipor, to do the thinking. Calipor is a smaller robotic pistol that does not have as much artillery as Calibur, but his strategic mind is what is most dangerous. Together they form a very dangerous duo to battle Mario.
 
Twirler: A robot for fans for hands and one atop his head for flight. He attacks Mario with giant gusts of wind such as tornados.
 
Crossbowyer: An upgrage to Bowyer, but built in the shape of a crossbow. His attacks are the same as the regular Bowyer.
 
Axem Rangers: The famous Axem Rangers would return to sek revenge on Mario and the Mushroom Kingdom.
 
Blade: The blade airship returns, but this time it transform into a parody of the Megazords of the power rangers to battle Mario and Bowser's Koopa Mechbot.
 
Graphics: On par with that of the Super Mario Galaxy series.
 
Gameplay: the same as the first, but modernized. 

[broodwars]

If they ever made a second Super Mario RPG, my one big wish would be to keep the Paper Mario team as far away from the game as possible, lest their unique brand of inept game design somehow infected the game.

As for minor wishes, I'd definitely want Geno to return, but he'd probably be the only minor supporting character I'd want back.  I'd want a whole new story, though, with a new main villain.

Actually, come to think of it if we ever got another Mario RPG, I real pipe dream of mine (one I've wanted since the SNES days) would be for it to be the RPG equivalent of Smash Bros: unite all the Nintendo heroes in an epic journey to take out all the Nintendo villains in worlds patterned off the respective universes much like Kingdoms Hearts.

[nickmitch]

You didn't like Paper Mario? Yeah, some of the characters were annoying, but those games were as fun as they were charming, IIRC.  But, I don't think we'll be getting a sequel to Mario RPG. We got the Mario&Luigi series to help us cope with that one.

But a Smash Bros RPG is a dream of mine, too. It'd be the perfect vehicle to bring back Captain N.

[Stratos]

I wouldn't call the Paper Mario games bad. I enjoyed the Gamecube one a lot. But it is no Mario RPG. I'd like a truly deep and more traditional RPG. And Mario & Luigi games don't even come close to cutting it in the traditional game department.

[broodwars]

My big problem with the Paper Mario games is that they seem to think tedium is funny, that wasting the player's time is hilarious (especially in Super Paper Mario).  I have other issues with the games, but that's the big one (and the main reason I never finished Super Paper Mario).

[TJ Spyke]

I haven't played Super Paper Mario, but the first two are easily better than Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Sven Stars and some of the best games on their systems. I'm not sure what tedium you are talking about, I have never played any RPGs that were less tedious than the Paper Mario ones. Just about the only way I would play a Super Mario RPG 2 is if Intelligent Systems (the PM developers) did it since I am confident they would do a good job. The games are so good that I have replayed each one multiple times (which is not something I ever do with other RPGs, except Pokemon re-makes).

[Ian Sane]

I like both the Paper Mario games and Super Mario RPG but I have always preferred Super Mario RPG because it isn't ashamed of being an RPG.  Paper Mario always seemed more like an RPG for people who don't like RPGs.  It's like Nintendo spent years spreading anti-RPG propaganda during the N64 years and then had to "disguise" Paper Mario so that it didn't resemble the Playstation RPGs they had been training their fanbase to hate.  Mario & Luigi was similar as well.  They all appear to be anti-RPGs.

Super Paper Mario actually seems more like what Intelligent Systems wanted to make - it's a platformer with some RPG elements.  But Super Mario RPG was very open in being RPG-like.  It was more like a Final Fantasy game with Mario characters and that's a big part of what I like about it.  And it also has Nintendo supervising so there isn't any random battles and when you're controlling Mario it still feels like you're interacting with the world.  It was exactly what one would hope it would be - a collaboration between Nintendo and Square with the strengths of both companies coming out.

The only way to make Super Mario RPG 2 is to work with Square again.  Anyone else making a Mario RPG would not be a direct sequel.  We've seen IS and AlphaDream make Mario RPGs.  Spyke says he would only play it if IS did it.  If IS did it how would it be any different than just another Paper Mario game?  The whole point is that it's Square and Nintendo.  So that's the formula for the sequel - you lend Mario to Square Enix and see what they come up with.

[DAaaMan64]

I like both the Paper Mario games and Super Mario RPG but I have always preferred Super Mario RPG because it isn't ashamed of being an RPG.  Paper Mario always seemed more like an RPG for people who don't like RPGs.  It's like Nintendo spent years spreading anti-RPG propaganda during the N64 years and then had to "disguise" Paper Mario so that it didn't resemble the Playstation RPGs they had been training their fanbase to hate.  Mario & Luigi was similar as well.  They all appear to be anti-RPGs.

So Smash Brothers is an anti-fighting-game, WiiMusic is an anti-music game, and Pikmin is an anti-rts game? Is that what I'm getting from you?

Seems like your using a negative word like ashamed when its really not necessary. You could have just as easily said Paper Mario is Nintendo's take on the RPG genre but with Mario, Paper Mario is a simpler more casual RPG, or Paper Mario is a more quirky RPG. I don't see why you need to paint it in that light, its not like you know Nintendo designed it with such a negative outlook on RPGs in mind. Especially when Nintendo makes RPGs in-house.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Guess what, non-Nintendo RPGs have been on the decline.

[broodwars]

Guess what, non-Nintendo RPGs have been on the decline.

Shin Megami Tensei would beg to disagree.  That series has only gotten better over the years, both in quality and in sales.
 
As for the "tedium" I referred to, have you all really managed to makes yourselves forget about the 2 General Bobomb hunts (which have you combing through the entire game world twice just to end up right back where you started) in Thousand Year Door, or the "slave labor" chapter or "stone age password" sections of Super Paper Mario?  Or that in all the Paper Mario games you have to buy items one-by-one with an inventory that's way too small?  Lucky you.

[King of Twitch]

I liked the diverse array of Paper Mario characters. Goomba, Koopa Troopa, Goomba with a backwards baseball cap. They were really exciting and drew me into the story.

[TJ Spyke]

Shin Megami Tensei would beg to disagree.  That series has only gotten better over the years, both in quality and in sales.
 
As for the "tedium" I referred to, have you all really managed to makes yourselves forget about the 2 General Bobomb hunts (which have you combing through the entire game world twice just to end up right back where you started) in Thousand Year Door, or the "slave labor" chapter or "stone age password" sections of Super Paper Mario?  Or that in all the Paper Mario games you have to buy items one-by-one with an inventory that's way too small?  Lucky you.

The Shin Megami Tensei series is still very niche. It sells enough to make a profit, but that's about it.

The General Bobomb hunts were not bad. I don't know how you play, but I never had to worry about inventory management as I never came close to running out of space.

[Ian Sane]

So Smash Brothers is an anti-fighting-game, WiiMusic is an anti-music game, and Pikmin is an anti-rts game? Is that what I'm getting from you?

You're the one choosing to take anti-RPG as a negative thing.  Paper Mario is a great game and I enjoy it very much.  But I wouldn't play it if I wanted to get my RPG on.  Of the games you listed the only one I would crap on is Wii Music.  Everything else is great but, again, if I want to play a fighting game I'll bust out something like Street Fighter or Soul Calibur.  SSB is something different.  I play it to get my SSB on.  And with both Paper Mario and SSB there is a section of those games' fanbases that love the fact that they play so differently than the rest of the genre.  I don't see this with Pikmin but Paper Mario and SSB seem to attract a lot of people that don't like the genre, but like the specific game.  I often see an attachment between Paper Mario gushing and general RPG bashing.
 
It is so common to hear SSB fans mention that SSB is so awesome because you don't need to do quarter circle motions to perform special moves at such.  I don't see why this is an advantage, it's merely different to me.  And I would never want to see this type of gameplay design applied to a Street Fighter game.  SSB fans have SSB and Street Fighter fans want Street Fighter to play like Street Fighter.  Super Mario RPG is a fairly conventional Square Enix style RPG and I feel that that's the whole hook and for any game to truly be "Super Mario RPG 2" it has to maintain that.
 
Super Mario RPG 2 should be for Super Mario RPG fans, not Paper Mario fans.  Paper Mario fans have Paper Mario.  I'm not saying there isn't some crossover between the fanbases but it should be made for the fans of the first game.  I'm not all into Wii Sports but I have no problem with Wii Sports Resort being made for Wii Sports fans.  It wouldn't make any sense for them to curb the sequel into something that appeals more to my tastes.

[Louieturkey]

Unfortunately Nintendo gamers tend to not worry as much about the story.  So RPGs just aren't the same on Nintendo systems Super Mario RPG was the best story of any Mario game ever.  The second best was Super Smash Bros Brawl.  There's a big gap between those two games storywise.
A Super Mario RPG 2 cannot be done by an internal Nintendo team because story is 2nd or 3rd on the list behind gameplay at least.  I could see Mystwalker or Monolith Soft doing a sequel.  Squeenix's RPGs haven't been that engaging lately either.  Maybe having Yamauchi work on it would be the best thing for it.

[Mop it up]

Super Mario RPG was the best story of any Mario game ever.  The second best was Super Smash Bros Brawl.  There's a big gap between those two games storywise.

Super Smash Brothers Brawl is not a Mario game. Even if it were, its "story" is almost non-existent (no key plot points are explained unless you acquire certain trophies). Any Mario RPG game beats it easily. Even Super Mario Galaxy has a better story for the simple fact it is coherent.

[Ian Sane]

Unfortunately Nintendo gamers tend to not worry as much about the story.  So RPGs just aren't the same on Nintendo systems Super Mario RPG was the best story of any Mario game ever.

That makes me think of something.  Super Mario RPG is a SNES game.  During that time and Nintendo and Square were seen as inseperable partners.  Square was a Nintendo exclusive developer.  Nintendo systems were associated with being strong RPG systems.  You would not necessarily associate Nintendo with weak stories as games with strong stories existed on the SNES and most games had weak stories so Nintendo's first party offerings didn't stand out as being exceptionally poor.  How does Super Metroid have a worse story than Contra 3 or Mega Man X?  That was just the level of story telling at the time for games outside of RPGs.
 
I think there's a difference in the attitudes regarding Nintendo fans depending on whether or not they became a fan before or after the N64.  The N64 had horrible third party support and a very small lineup of RPGs.  And Nintendo was full on the propaganda, crapping on RPGs and downplaying the importance of third party support with "quality over quantity".  The Playstation also signalled an increase in story elements in videogames.  FMV was a big part of this and, not being able to provide that with the cartridge based N64, Nintendo also downplayed the importance of stories in videogames.  Whenever I complain about Nintendo's shortcomings in any of these I often get a "well why would you expect this out of Nintendo" response which is what I would expect from someone who grew up in the N64 era and has never experience firsthand a Nintendo were these things were common and expected.
 
Super Mario RPG is like the very type of game Nintendo spent the N64 era training their fans to hate.  It's a third party RPG game with a lot of emphasis on story.  It even pushes the hardware to the fullest and features what were, at the time, cutting edge graphics.  It doesn't even fit the "graphics before gameplay" mantra!
 
I think the difference of fandom plays a part in which Mario RPG someone has a fondness for.  Super Mario RPG is 2D era Nintendo while Paper Mario is 3D era Nintendo.  I would say that both games are very representative of their eras.  So I think it depends on what era you prefer.

[Kytim89]

I would just would like for Square to develop the game themselves with Nintendo's supervision. Imagine the game having Super Mario Galaxy 2 style graphics with the style of Final Fantasy 13. The wii needs as many RPGs as it can get and the roster is filling up with good titles, so the foundation for such a game is there, but Square and Nintendo need to capitalize on it.
 
Secondly, the game needs to be a true sequel to the first game. No tie in with the other Mario RPG games like Paper Mario and M and L series. I want to fight Smithy again, but on a scale comparable to the boss battles of Super Mario Galaxy 2.

[DAaaMan64]

I should mention I enjoyed Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn and it has a reasonably entertaining story.

[Mop it up]

Fire Emblem does seem interesting, but the gameplay looks like a major time sink, and that's always discouraged me from trying it.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

It's simple:  quit Monster Hunting.

[Kytim89]

As for the speciel attacks, I would like for the ones in SRPG to return but with a combo tech system like the one from Chrono Trigger. Basically two or more characters can team up with certain attacks and cause alot of damage for the opponent.
 
 

[NWR_insanolord]

I'd take either Paper Mario or Mario & Luigi over Super Mario RPG any time, and I say that having only played the second M&L game, widely considered to be the worst of the three.

[Kytim89]

If Square and Nintendo can not figure out how to the make the game a big and ambitious title for the wii, they could always make the game a wiiware title. Imagine an enhanced SNES style wiiware sequel to the game. This could be similar to the Final Fantasy 4: The After Years DLC.

[Stratos]

It's simple:  quit Monster Hunting.

Never! Monster Hunting is in my blood now.

[AV]

Wario and Wart as the villains.