Topic: PlayStation Vita (PS Vita) - previously known as NGP

[Stogi]

I don't think you realize how big the NGP is.

[BlackNMild2k1]

[NWR_insanolord]

The NGP is pretty impressive technology, and far more appealing to me than the PSP ever was. If the thing gets good software support I'll probably buy one. That being said, I don't see how you could argue it's more innovative than the 3DS. I wouldn't argue either of them is particularly innovative, but if I had to choose, I'd definitely say the glasses-free stereoscopic 3D is a bigger deal than the rear trackpad. Even forgetting the question of how awkward it's going to be to hold the thing in a way that would allow its use, I don't see many interesting uses for it that couldn't be better accomplished with the full complement of buttons and two sticks the thing has.

[oohhboy]

The rear touch pad is the direct response to the lack of second screen. We all know what the DS touch screen tends to be used for, mostly control. However it's not a direct solution to the problem as they have to use primary display space for the UI making it not too much different from virtual controls like you have on the iPhone. It's especially redundant since the screen itself is multi touch anyway. They would have been better off with a second screen. I mean they threw everything else into this machine, why NOT a second screen?

[ShyGuy]

Hey does this thing have a gyroscope and I missed it?

[MegaByte]

Yes, three-axis accelerometer, three-axis gyroscope, and three-axis magnetometer.

[BlackNMild2k1]

so it's a Move components jammed into a PS3 controller wit a 5" touchscreen and a touch pad on back.

If this thing doesn't find use as a PS3 controller through connectivity, I will be shocked.

does it have rumble?

[Ian Sane]

The funny thing with Sony is that they are sometimes unintentionally innovative.  When Nintendo is innovative they are obvious about it.  In fact they tend to shove their new idea in your face again and again for better or worse.  With Sony, they have no real plan for the rear touchpad.  They just figured "why not?" and threw it on there.

When they introduced the dual-analog controller for the Playstation everyone knew it was a response to the N64 analog stick.  We all wondered why they put two sticks on there and the general idea was that they used a very basic "two would be better" approach without any real plan.  The funny thing is that dual-analog is now standard and Sony invented it.  But they didn't really use it for much at first.  Nintendo spent much more effort demonstrating it with their first Gamecube titles like Luigi's Mansion and Pikmin.  But what really got it going was first person shooters and that was mostly thanks to the Xbox and Halo.  Sony more or less pulled the whole design out of their butt and it ended up becoming a standard.

So who knows what elements of the PSP2 will become videogame standards?  Sony kind of just shoves that **** on there and sees where it sticks.

[KDR_11k]

What Sony will have to make sure is that the system is more than just a port receiver for PS3 games. That didn't work for the PSP either.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I think that Sony ay have actually thought about this one this time. They kept mentioning how they had no plans for 3D at this time, which is fine, but if they add it in a later revision or on the next system, people will already be used to the rear touch panel which would be necessary to not break the 3D on the screen while still being able to use touch manipulation.

So I honestly think Sony had a reasoning for it even if they didn't have a super innovative plan for it immediately. I also think it was a great idea even if just used mostly for internet browsing as you finger on the back acts like a mouse on a laptop. Enable some smooth scroll without you fingers blocking what you're looking at.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Sony has released a S.E.X. Play Commercial
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MV09PRsAU2Y&feature=player_embedded
and it borders on kinda creepy DROID w/ human thumbs sewn on

[MaryJane]

I forget what game it was, but they showed the rear touchpad being used to climb a vine, which on the surface isn't very intuitive but if you can climb, direct your gun left or right, and shoot, all at the same time then it becomes something good.

The trackpad is the same size as the screen, so your hand are already in position to use it. Even allowing for the possibility to use it with the face buttons, left analog, and one shoulder button, all at the same time. So there are a lot of possibilities for use. So I agree with Ian that it could become a standard, and with the other person who said it would make sense on the PSP2-3D.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I'm pretty sure that was Uncharted

and "the other person" was 2 post above yours. It couldn't have been that hard to remember where you saw that mentioned.

[sigrah0x7ba]

I've been trying my best not to respond to this topic, or any topic for that matter, but I have a few questions that no one seems to be thinking about:

1. Can anyone tell me how Sony is going to manage to get PS3 sized games onto a DS sized card without it costing an arm and a leg? PS3 games on disc cost $60. How much more is it going to cost to try and get that onto a card? I just did a quick search and the size of MGS4 is 30 Gigs. And apparently that was one of the games that Sony showed off at the reveal of their new system so it's going to be expected to see it released on it. Since developers can't be bothered to compress games to get them to fit on Wii and WiiWare the idea that they'll just compress them won't fly.

2. Can anyone tell me who is going to be willing to wait hours for these games to download onto this new system? We're talking as much as 25 Gigs plus for a single game. Even if you're downloading them onto your own cards, first you have to buy the cards and then you have to buy the game, which will still be full price if the price of PSPGo games is any indication, and then you have to wait hours for it to download onto that card. And that's not even mentioning how impossible it would be to download such games over WiFi let alone 3G.

Logically this system makes absolutely no sense. It doesn't matter how powerful or what price the system is if the media isn't feasible.

[MaryJane]

Just because it can have PS3 games doesn't mean that it will.

And BnM, on the mobile site, the "other person" is on a different page.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I actually think both of those concerns were raised somewhere in this thread and the second one I remember commenting on myself, but I'll try to answer them for you.

1. PS3 games have HD textures to be rendered at resolutions of upto 1080p. I don't know the exact math but I think that will be several time larger than the textures used for a PSP2 game running at 960x544 (1/2 PS3 res?). Also compression techniques are really good nowadays and if Sony's cards are like Nintendo's card (Sony's will likely be some extra-proprietary MemStick variation), they could have cards that are anywhere upto 32GB in size over time.

MGS4 was shown running a cutscene on NGP, but I'm sure they could get the game size down significantly, especially if it required an install from teh main game card onto the storage gamecard/onboard storage(if there is any) to run.

2. I had this same exact question somewhere in this thread... I'll look for it later, but I doubt we are looking at 25+GB for a game. alot of the same games that run on PS3 are possible with on the Xbox360 which only uses 8GB DL DVDs. Alot of the space used on BRDs for PS3 games are duplication of data to minimize seek time because there is so much space on the disc and the 1st gen BRD drives are kinda slow. I'm sure most PS3 games could and probably do fit within 8GB or less and most NGP games (in the first year or so) will likely not be over 2GB to begin with.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Just because it can have PS3 games doesn't mean that it will.

And BnM, on the mobile site, the "other person" is on a different page.

what mobile site? I had just said that it(rear trackpad) would make sense for a PSP2 with 3D 2 post above yours. I didn't see anyone mention a mobile site.

[MaryJane]

Oh, sorry I didn't give you proper credit.

I'm a lot more interested in what's being said, than who said it... It's just a rarity when I agree with Ian.

[BlackNMild2k1]

It's all good, but you had me confused there for a second

I actually started scanning back a page to figure out what you were talking about.

[sigrah0x7ba]

I actually think both of those concerns were raised somewhere in this thread and the second one I remember commenting on myself, but I'll try to answer them for you.

1. PS3 games have HD textures to be rendered at resolutions of upto 1080p. I don't know the exact math but I think that will be several time larger than the textures used for a PSP2 game running at 960x544 (1/2 PS3 res?). Also compression techniques are really good nowadays and if Sony's cards are like Nintendo's card (Sony's will likely be some extra-proprietary MemStick variation), they could have cards that are anywhere upto 32GB in size over time.

MGS4 was shown running a cutscene on NGP, but I'm sure they could get the game size down significantly, especially if it required an install from teh main game card onto the storage gamecard/onboard storage(if there is any) to run.

2. I had this same exact question somewhere in this thread... I'll look for it later, but I doubt we are looking at 25+GB for a game. alot of the same games that run on PS3 are possible with on the Xbox360 which only uses 8GB DL DVDs. Alot of the space used on BRDs for PS3 games are duplication of data to minimize seek time because there is so much space on the disc and the 1st gen BRD drives are kinda slow. I'm sure most PS3 games could and probably do fit within 8GB or less and most NGP games (in the first year or so) will likely not be over 2GB to begin with.

Okay, I'm going to get out of this before I get into an argument but you're making a lot of HUGE assumptions here.

[NWR_insanolord]

Assumptions maybe, but not huge ones. Almost everything he said is either established fact or the likeliest explanation. The only thing I'd disagree with is the last sentence; I think the majority of early games on the platform will be ports of PS3 games, which would likely be larger than 2 GB.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Even the PS3 ports could use lots of compression and get the size down. Games will be really expensive if they need to shop on 4 or 8GB cards. PS3 games cost $60 already and that is with a disc that cost $1. How much do you think NGP games will cost putting the same game on a extra proprietary card that cost $5-$10 each?

[BranDonk Kong]

I actually think both of those concerns were raised somewhere in this thread and the second one I remember commenting on myself, but I'll try to answer them for you.

1. PS3 games have HD textures to be rendered at resolutions of upto 1080p. I don't know the exact math but I think that will be several time larger than the textures used for a PSP2 game running at 960x544 (1/2 PS3 res?). Also compression techniques are really good nowadays and if Sony's cards are like Nintendo's card (Sony's will likely be some extra-proprietary MemStick variation), they could have cards that are anywhere upto 32GB in size over time.

MGS4 was shown running a cutscene on NGP, but I'm sure they could get the game size down significantly, especially if it required an install from teh main game card onto the storage gamecard/onboard storage(if there is any) to run.

2. I had this same exact question somewhere in this thread... I'll look for it later, but I doubt we are looking at 25+GB for a game. alot of the same games that run on PS3 are possible with on the Xbox360 which only uses 8GB DL DVDs. Alot of the space used on BRDs for PS3 games are duplication of data to minimize seek time because there is so much space on the disc and the 1st gen BRD drives are kinda slow. I'm sure most PS3 games could and probably do fit within 8GB or less and most NGP games (in the first year or so) will likely not be over 2GB to begin with.

960x544 is roughly 1/4 the resolution of 1080p (1920x180). A couple things to note are that while some games can be run in 1080p, I believe NBA Street or something like that is the only actual (retail) game that runs natively at 1080p on any console. Using any sort of compression, and the fact that videos will only need to run at 960x544 (maximum, they could easily run at a lesser resolution without being very noticeable) will make games take up a lot less space, and all of the textures can be smaller without being noticeable. The console also won't have 7.1 surround sound, so that cuts down on the size of audio files (though not as much as you'd think).

[ThePerm]

innovating could be adding existing technology to an object that previously didn't have it. I could think of a great example...but not right now.

[Adrock]

Even the PS3 ports could use lots of compression and get the size down. Games will be really expensive if they need to shop on 4 or 8GB cards. PS3 games cost $60 already and that is with a disc that cost $1. How much do you think NGP games will cost putting the same game on a extra proprietary card that cost $5-$10 each?

Probably $50-$60 depending on what the MSRP for NGP games ends up being. I don't think the storage format is going to change anything price wise. Besides a few exceptions (I distinctly remember Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire being $80 at one point and my mom, understandably appalled beyond belief in hindsight, refusing to buy it for me), most N64 games were $50, the same as most PS1 games, despite the price disparity between cartridges and CDs which was something like $20 vs. $1 respectively. Additionally, not all games are created equal but, for the most part, they all sell for the same MSRP. They aren't sold on perceived worth though, to be fair, how impossible would that be to determine? That's why standard suggested retail prices exist.