Topic: Is the Wii becoming over-saturated with Mario games?

[Chozo Ghost]

Well, we have Mario Galaxy, NSMB, and soon we will have SMG2, and that's not including the countless Mario games on the VC and all of the Mario Party and Sports games he is in. So is the Wii being over-saturated with too much Mario? Some consumers will like him no matter what, but I think there are many others out there who could get sick of him and wish there was something fresh and new (like a new I.P.).

I also think too much Mario is probably going to hurt sales for NSMB and SMG2. SMG1 will be alright because it was released first and its sales total are pretty much finalized and won't get much higher, but NSMB's sales are already probably less than what they could have been because it is competing with SMG1 and the sequel is looming over head. All of these games have an MSRP of $50 which is pretty steep, especially in the economy we have these days. So it means people will be buying fewer games in general. It also means they probably aren't going to be buying every Mario game that comes out. This means they have to choose which one they're going to get, so which one gets their money? Tastes vary and some will like 2D Mario over 3D Mario (or vice versa). But whichever one they choose, odds are they will limit their purchase to that one and not get the others.

[Mop it up]

Personally I say there aren't enough Mario games but that's because I adore the series far more than any other.

I see your point though, overexposure could have negative effects in the long run. However... I'm not seeing much that suggests all these Mario games are hurting sales of one another. First off, every Mario game on Wii has sold over a million copies, with the possible exception of Super Paper Mario (I'm not sure what it is up to). Most are multi-million sellers. I'm also not sure why you think New Super Mario Brothers Wii is under-performing. The game sold 10 million copies in two months, faster than any other Mario game. Faster than almost every other game period.

In short, I don't think people are sick of Mario. Sales show they can't get enough.

[Luigi Dude]

Every single gen these topics shows up.

And every single gen these topics are proven wrong.

Seriously, there is no danger of Mario being over-saturated since all the Mario games are in different genre's.  Just because Mario is in the game doesn't mean anything since the games all play completely different from each other and the consumers know this.  If somebody buys Mario Kart, it's because they're buying a racing game.  If they buy NSMBW it's because they want a 2D platformer, just like if they buy Mario Galaxy they're buying it for a 3D platformer.

It's because if this reason, Mario stays just as popular every gen because the average person is buying Mario games for the gameplay in them, not the character.

[Mop it up]

I probably wouldn't have bought Mario Golf, Tennis, Baseball, and Strikers if Mario characters weren't in them...

[TJ Spyke]

Assuming you just mean Mario and not Mario universe (which would also include Wario), you have:
Super Mario Galaxy
Super Mario Galaxy 2
New Super Mario Bros. Wii
Mario Party 8
Mario Strikers Charged
Mario Super Sluggers
New Play Control! Mario Power Tennis
Super Paper Mario
Mario Kart Wii
Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games
Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games

That is not that many. Also, they are a wide range of genres.

[Chozo Ghost]

SMG1 and SMG2 are in the same genre, though. They're both 3D platformers set in space. Odds are they will be VERY similar to one another.

[Mop it up]

If the NES can handle three Mario platformers and have them all sell well then I'm sure the Wii can handle two.

[Luigi Dude]

SMG1 and SMG2 are in the same genre, though. They're both 3D platformers set in space. Odds are they will be VERY similar to one another.

Yeah but they're both 2.5 years apart from each other.  Not to mention Galaxy 1 sold over 6 million of it's over 8 million total in it's first 3 months.  Meaning the average Galaxy owner finished the game over 2 years ago, and so Galaxy 2 while similar, will still feel pretty fresh to most people who will buy it.

Unlike a lot of third parties who release yearly sequels where the average person ends up buying the new game less then 9 months after they finished the previous one.

[Kytim89]

Mario is Nintendo's mascot, so it is logical that they would produce many games staring the character. Personally, I do not think that the market is over saturated with Mario games, Nintendo has just done a fair job at keeping the series appealing for twenty plus years.

[ThePerm]

never enough mario games in my opinion, or mario anything

[SixthAngel]

Mario is basically a brand name.

I think you can have too many Mario platformers or too many Mario Karts but I don't think you can have too much Mario.

[ejamer]

As long as the quality remains high and the content doesn't repeat, it's very hard to complain... but (personally) I am reaching a personal limit on how many Nintendo games really interest me this generation.  13/50 first-party titles isn't that bad though!

[Morari]

As long as the quality remains high and the content doesn't repeat, it's very hard to complain...

So we should have started to complain the moment Mario Party came out?

[Ian Sane]

With the Gamecube I argued that Nintendo's overuse of Mario had diminished his effectiveness as a system seller.  Super Mario Sunshine should have been considered an event as a true Mario game had not been released in years.  But I felt because multiple games starring Mario were released every year that the release of a new Mario platformer was not seen as such a big deal because to the average person who doesn't follow videogames on the internet Super Mario Sunshine did not stand out on the shelf any more than the lesser Mario games.  It gave Nintendo the image of a company that just rehashes the same stuff, which at the time I felt was an unfair image.  But to random rubes who didn't look at the details it looked like Nintendo was just releasing the same old-ass bullshit again and again.  Meanwhile Halo and GTA were new franchises that a new generation of gamers were identifying with.  Much like how I felt Nintendo needed to introduce more IPs for new generations of gamers to identify with, they needed to make their older IPs more prestigious by limiting their appearances.  Mario should have been limited to the platformers, RPGs and Mario Kart, as I felt those were the biggest Mario games.

Well Nintendo has not exactly done that.  We've got more Mario than ever (though their decision to revisit 2D Mario has resulted in the need for two series, which I think is acceptable due to the merits of the two different designs).  Nintendo now spins off Zelda and Metroid as well, two franchises that used to be treated in a more sacred manner and thus had more impact with the release of each game.  Nintendo is more franchise dependent than ever.

But they're targetting a different market now.  I was suggesting scaling back Mario and focusing on more new IPs to attract the then current videogame market.  Core gamers (the ONLY gamers at the time) felt that Nintendo were rehashers and that image needed to be addressed.  But non-gamers aren't so critical of that sort of thing and lapsed gamers are all into nostalgia.  In the future though these groups may overdose on Mario.  Nintendo still needs to focus on creating new IPs.  A new IP was what sold the Wii in the first place, not the same franchises.  Mario's role on the Wii is more of a supporting franchise.  People bought the Wii for the new Wii Sports IP and Mario is what they buy now that they have the console.  That is the proper role for sequels.

I personally have grown sick of Mario and only buy the platformers these days.

[ThePerm]

see, thats where we differ. As a collector, I always thought Nintendo never marketed Mario enough. Compared to what Pokémon got for so long Mario was like 2% on the brand and marketing scale. There should be Mario t-shirts, Toys, Cartoon Shows, trinkets, etc. Only  recently have they started to have lots of Mario Schwag you could buy in stores. The fact that Nintendo has different series with the Mario/Nintendo brand on it should not discount the quality of the platformers. They are made by different teams and vary in quality. Ultimately if its made by EAD or Nintendo Tokyo it should be the best of the best in the Mario brand. I don't think keeping Mario scarce from a business standpoint makes his brand any less valuble. Keeping him scarce is bad business actually because they make a good chunk of money off his spinoff titles. Now Mario could be like the Avatar(the Cameron Brand) of video games if they only released one every 7 or so years, but ultimately its not a good idea to keep that strategy, because if there is any failures they'll be super failures. Zelda has had more releases than were in the nes/snes days, and people have been complaining about the quality. However, i think that is a matter of perception. New players won't see a difference because they're Zelda virgins. Unfortunately, you can only have so much fun with a franchise before things get to familiar, but i think the company should just keep doing what its doing, and the consumer should go do something else. Thats why some spouses cheat on each other.

[Peachylala]

Let's not forget that many of Mario's sports/side games sell well, which gives Nintendo PROFIT so they can make those wonderful grade A games we love so much.

Wii also has the honor of being the only console besides the NES to get a Mario 3-D sequal and not be ****-canned to be developed onto a new system (SM64 2 to Sunshine, rumored 128 to Galaxy).

[Ian Sane]

I think a good way to sum up my argument is I don't want Mario to be like Bomberman or Mega Man.  Games in these franchises are released all the time yet most of them are just sort of there.  They sell okay but no one aside from the most die-hard fan feels the need to own all of them, or even be aware of the existence of all of them.  Though recently Mega Man has made a comeback with the retro-style games.

These franchises are popular but are so oversaturated that they're largely irrelevent.  No one really notices when the new games come out and it would take a while for people to notice if they stopped making them.  Mario is at that point now where irrevelent Mario games are released.  I don't want it to get to the point where irrelevent Mario platformers are released.

And if Nintendo has any intention of using Mario to sell systems then Mario has to remain relevent.  Mario games have to be a big deal.  These days Mega Man would not sell consoles, but on the NES or SNES he might have.

Part of it though is my love for the Mario series.  I WANT the series to maintain its legendary status and it won't if it's milked too much.  The fact that I skip Mario spin-offs now, and I don't even CARE, sucks.  Hell I've now skipped Zelda games and I never thought I'd ever do THAT.  Overexposure makes a special franchise ordinary and unessential.

[Adrock]

Over-saturation is only a problem if the games weren't good, but they are so as long as Mario is in good games, I don't think there's much to worry about.

[ThePerm]

the biggest problems with Bomberman and Megaman is they are all relatively the same, Mario games on the other hand can be radically different. There really are no cookie cutter sequels. Even Mario 2, and Sunshine which have been refereed to everyone as terrible mario games are not bad games. They are good games that get compared to better games.

Also, you skipped Zelda games? WTF would you do that? Zelda TP is an awesome game, high quality to the max. The biggest gripes people have with it are really ridiculous. They are matter of perception things. If you haven't tried it you can't be complaining about it. Borrow it, and play through it at least. If your talking about the DS games than OK..thats different. Honestly, I've never been a big handheld owning person

[Stogi]

Perm I think he was referring to "Crossbow Training".

[ThePerm]

I'v heard mixed reaction on that game as of recently, it was universally panned by critics, but is a cult game now. It was a free giveaway with a the $15 gun, they could have released the gun alone for that price. Perception.

[TJ Spyke]

Link's Crossbow Training was not "universally panned". At worst, it got mixed reviews (I saw several really good reviews). It also game with a $20 gun (although most stores charged $25). The game was really fun though and worth the price just for the game alone.

And where have Super Mario Bros. 2 and Super Mario Sunshine ever been called terrible? Maybe by ignorant people online. The general perception of Sunshine is that it was a good game, but just more of the same and didn't really add anything new. SMB2 does have some detractors, but as time goes by it seems to get more love (similar to The Simpsons episodes. Episodes that got tremendous hate when they first aired, like "Two Bad Neighbors", were later considered great episodes), especially since it wasn't originally a Mario game (remember that Nintendo was worried about how Americans would react to the increased difficulty in the "real" SMB 2, so they took a game called Doki Doki Panic and made some minor alterations to it).

[Stogi]

"(remember that Nintendo was worried about how Americans would react to the increased difficulty in the "real" SMB 2, so they took a game called Doki Doki Panic and made some minor alterations to it)."

Is this true?

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Not "more of the same."  It was "less of the good stuff."  Actually, it took away good stuff, and inserted lame stuff.

Hate.

SMB2 was incredible cuz it presented Mario Universe with lots of new tricks.

[BlackNMild2k1]

"(remember that Nintendo was worried about how Americans would react to the increased difficulty in the "real" SMB 2, so they took a game called Doki Doki Panic and made some minor alterations to it)."

Is this true?

Yes it is.

Look