Topic: Square Enix expects FF13 to revive Japanese console market

[KDR_11k]

http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/02/09/news-FFXIII-Producers-Say-Game-Will-Use-Phoenix-Down-On-Japanese-Game-Industry.aspx

“Some people have been saying that the Japanese game industry is dead, and all that…. I dunno. I will say that Final Fantasy XIII is one really epic title for high definition consoles. With this game, we are going to resurrect the whole thing.�

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[BlackNMild2k1]

When did they say this, because that moment has already passed and it didn't happen.

[ThePerm]

as crazy as that sounds, Japanese sales of consoles have been down tremendously in the last couple of years, there hasn't been a FF console game this generation so....there could be a correlation. As much as i dislike JRPGs, i wouldn't underestimate the power of the king of JRPGs in J-land.

[broodwars]

I don't see what is so funny about that quote that has you spazzing out on the keyboard there.  The game has sold fairly well in Japan so far (just shy of 2 million units if I remember correctly, which is pretty good for one console), and it's too early to say whether the JRPG market will follow its lead or not.  Seriously, with the exception of this game and Bayonetta the Japanese game industry (sans Nintendo, who operates in a separate universe that only they exist in) has been stagnant to decaying for years, so I don't see anything wrong in declaring that the latest installment in the 2nd biggest RPG franchise in Japan could have a big impact.

And, incidentally, FF XIII looks awesome, so I'm definitely looking forward to that one next month.

[BlackNMild2k1]

FFXIII released weeks ago and stopped short of 2 million like a canon fired a ball in it's chest. Gmaes have been in the bargain bins. FFXIII isn't revitalizing anything in Japan.

The moment has already passed and nothing has happened, much like Y2k.

[broodwars]

FFXIII released weeks ago and stopped short of 2 million like a canon fired a ball in it's chest. Gmaes have been in the bargain bins. FFXIII isn't revitalizing anything in Japan.

The moment has already passed and nothing has happened, much like Y2k.

We'll see what happens when the game hits worldwide on the 9th.  That quote's a little vague as to what exactly he would hope to resurrect in the Japanese gaming market.  Sales?  Prestige in a time when Japanese developers are becoming increasingly irrelevant worldwide?  This quote could easily be spun in several different directions, and we'll see what happens when the West has the game on two HD consoles.

[BlackNMild2k1]

But the quote wasn't about US and Euro markets. It was about Japanese market and the moment for it's impact has already passed. The only way to fix that statement would be to replace FFXIII with NSMBW.

I have no doubt that FFXIII will be big in the US and maybe EUR but that really isn't the topic of discussion.

[KDR_11k]

How many epic HD games have there been so far? 200? 400? If those haven't revived the market then why would FF13 do so? Nintendo set out to revive the Japanese market and they are succeeding and it doesn't involve HD or epic.

As much as i dislike JRPGs, i wouldn't underestimate the power of the king of JRPGs in J-land.

Yes DQ10 will do wonders for the Wii but I think this is the wrong thread for discussing Dragon Quest?

[broodwars]

Nintendo set out to revive the Japanese market and they are succeeding and it doesn't involve HD or epic.

Sure, if by that you mean "Nintendo makes a lot of money while very little else does in the console market, and nearly the entire Japanese market shifts to the handhelds to the utter detriment of anyone living outside Japan."

This quote reminds me a lot of Inafune's quote at last year's Tokyo Game Show, where he stood on stage and commented on how completely dead he thought the Japanese game market was after looking at the titles at the show.  Considering Nintendo was still making money hands over fist then, I get the feeling he wasn't referring to Japanese sales and I get the same feeling with this quote from the FF XIII producers.  Like I said, we'll see if the Japanese RPG market continues its current resurgence in the wake of FF XIII, but it'll likely be a while till we know for sure.

[Peachylala]

How many epic HD games have there been so far? 200? 400? If those haven't revived the market then why would FF13 do so? Nintendo set out to revive the Japanese market and they are succeeding and it doesn't involve HD or epic.

There is a large growing trend with the 'epic' HD market gearing towards the North American/Europe market, which Japanese and American third parties are doing. However, this trend is a very prickly road. We even have a thread dedicated to the same people who took this road and lost their way.
 
Nintendo sometimes will take this road, but they are taking it carefully. What helps them is that they have strong brand power, quality control, and knowing what works and what doesn't... but that is another arguement for another thread.
 

FFXIII released weeks ago and stopped short of 2 million like a canon fired a ball in it's chest. Gmaes have been in the bargain bins. FFXIII isn't revitalizing anything in Japan.

Two million is great... until you realize it needs to sell many more copies to cover it's budget.
 
Leave it to America and Europe to do that. The FF loyalists will buy anything attached with the Final Fantasy brand (sans Crystal Chronicles), no matter how melodramatic or overrated it is.

[noname2200]

I don't see what is so funny about that quote that has you spazzing out on the keyboard there.  The game has sold fairly well in Japan so far (just shy of 2 million units if I remember correctly, which is pretty good for one console), and it's too early to say whether the JRPG market will follow its lead or not.  Seriously, with the exception of this game and Bayonetta the Japanese game industry (sans Nintendo, who operates in a separate universe that only they exist in) has been stagnant to decaying for years...

To provide a bit of context, Final Fantasy XII sold 2,322,000 copies in Japan (which is less than FF X, which is less than IX, which is less than VIII). http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Famitsu_Best_selling_video_games
 
Based on that, I'd argue that it's actually underperformed. At the very least, it's a good representative of another "stagnant to decaying" series. I certainly wouldn't point to it as a game that's "reviving" the Japanese console market, especially when it's time to do so has already passed.

[Stogi]

That's basically saying that Metroid will revive the Japanese market.

[Ian Sane]

Japan is the land of the fads and consoles just ain't cool no more.  And that means no one buys them.  You buy your portable and your non-games and you conform because it's Japan, DAMMIT!  That's my rather crude and largely ignorant view of Japanese culture. :)

It always seems in that past that while multiple consoles could co-exist in America (even with one clear winner) in Japan it was like THIS console sells and everything else is niche.  Or how such-and-such game was a huge hit in America but bombed in Japan and the excuse is that it's because it's not Japanese or it's not a popular genre over ther.  I was initially like "but this is a good game and it can't find even the slightest audience there?"

I used to have a major interest in pro wrestling and Japan has a strong pro wrestling culture.  But apparently MMA has significantly stolen the pro wrestling audiences away over there.  I've also looked up Japanese baseball out of curiousity and apparently the introducing of the J1 soccer league has affected the bottomline and taken away fans.  Huh?  In North America FOUR major sports leagues co-exist with some cities having teams in all four sports and with local fans supporting all four teams.  Whenever I look at Japan trends it seems like ONE thing is incredibly successful in its field and everything else struggles.  In America demographics play a major role and something can find an audience even if the mainstream isn't into it.  And American culture holds a lot of value in individual freedoms, which makes sense considering the history of the country.

Of course the major cultural gap I don't understand is why the Japanese companies give a ****.  Japan's population is 127,470,000.  The America's is 308,652,000 which is over TWICE that.  Plus the North American market also includes Canada which adds another 34 million.  And Europe has similar taste to North America as well.  The UK has a population of 62 million, Germany is 81.  And those are just the European countries I know for sure have strong videogame markets.  So if you've got two markets and the Eastern one is fickle but the Western one is not and is at least three times the size and yet you put all your concerns in the smaller Eastern one that is HARDER to please?  See that must be a culture thing because in the West businessmen look at the bottom line and focus on where the MONEY is.

You want to make console games?  Then you focus on where people buy consoles and that's the West.  Don't waste your time catering to a market that is no longer interested.

[BlackNMild2k1]

The one thing Japanese game creators know, is that if they can make a game that the Japanese love and buy in mass it will also likely be a huge hit in the West too.
They take pride, honor and respect in their country seriously, and it's not all about just chasing the money. If they can't make a game that their own countrymen and women want to play and instead focus solely on what westerners want, then they may feel like they are dishonoring their Japanese audience, and therefore the Japanese audience may ignore them. Nothing worse than losing respect of your home.

Kinda like focusing on the neighbors kids instead of your own, because the interest of your own kids have changed and the neighbors kids still like what you are into. Gotta put Family first. [/possibly misguided American view of Japanese culture]

[Ian Sane]

Kinda like focusing on the neighbors kids instead of your own, because the interest of your own kids have changed and eh neighbors kids still like what you are into. Family first.

 ;D  I wouldn't associate neglecting my family with neglecting a bunch of strangers that happen to live in the same country as me. But again I think that's a culture thing.  Japan is all about shame and honour and stuff like that.
 
We're talking about a country where it used to be customary to commit suicide rather than face the shame of being defeated by one's enemies.  While America is more of a "last stand" country where if your enemies are going to kill you, you take as many down with you as you go.
 
The fact that Westerners like good Japanese games does suggest at least that Japanese devs should continue to make that style of games.  I just don't want them to give up on that style because it's not so popular in their home country.  And they could risk losing the larger Western market if they cater their design to Japan's changing tastes.

[EasyCure]

You're both right. How very odd..

and a great analogy by BnM, i must say! *claps*

[Ymeegod]

Actually JRPGs are dying on consoles in Japan so 2 million is actually quite high.  Most of Japan is on the move--meaning they tend to do more with handheld gaming then sitting at home.  That's why the games like DQ DS games do so well. 

FF is a popular title even stateside but other JRPG in general don't sell.

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[ThePerm]

Kinda like focusing on the neighbors kids instead of your own, because the interest of your own kids have changed and eh neighbors kids still like what you are into. Family first.

 ;D  I wouldn't associate neglecting my family with neglecting a bunch of strangers that happen to live in the same country as me. But again I think that's a culture thing.  Japan is all about shame and honour and stuff like that.
 
We're talking about a country where it used to be customary to commit suicide rather than face the shame of being defeated by one's enemies.  While America is more of a "last stand" country where if your enemies are going to kill you, you take as many down with you as you go.
 
The fact that Westerners like good Japanese games does suggest at least that Japanese devs should continue to make that style of games.  I just don't want them to give up on that style because it's not so popular in their home country.  And they could risk losing the larger Western market if they cater their design to Japan's changing tastes.

What Japanese Developers need to learn is that they can Curve tastes. If they people don't like it then they can learn to like it because thats all they'll get!

or perhaps thats whats going on right now, they push all this Japan-o-phile crap, and as it turns out they actually don't like it.

[Pale]

I wish I lived in world where a games success was based on whether or not it was good... not whether or not it sold enough copies to meet some arbitrary number that makes gamers think it was a fiscal success.

[KDR_11k]

It's S-E who said FF13 would revive the market, not us. They said it'll be a financial success. Besides, nobody here has played it so all we can judge is the data we get.

[Pale]

I'm just going to walk away. Last time I stuck up for Final Fantasy on these forums, the world nearly exploded.

[Peachylala]

Pale, word of advice, don't stick up for any FF game after VII and you'll be just fine.
 
Just don't do that around the hardcorez of Final Fantasy fan brats.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Is it revived yet?

[Ymeegod]

Actually there's reviews coming in and it's still rated quite high but alot of the cons for the game is against the genre itselt--meaning it's not the typical JRPG FF game.  The story takes a back seat, there's no side missions for most of the game, and there's no towns/extra areas to explore.  The plus is it's combat system is fast paced and keeps evoling intil the end of the game.

Not sure if I'm going love it like the rest of FF games but I'm going still play the game come March.

[Ian Sane]

there's no side missions for most of the game, and there's no towns/extra areas to explore.

Finding out about this pretty much killed my interest in this game.  This is what I play RPGs for.  Those elements are the whole hook!  Battles?  That's the goddamn filler.  That's the crap that has to be addressed.  If RPGs are to be overhauled it's to get rid of time consuming level grinding and focus on exploration and puzzle solving.
 
This change sounds like one made to attract people who just play action games, that like to skip cutscenes and want just straightforward linear levels.  If that's you want, RPGs aren't for you.  Neither are adventure games like Zelda or Metroid.