Topic: NBA JAM - BOOOOOOM-SHAKA-LAKA - He's... stopped, dropped and rolled!!!!!

[BlackNMild2k1]

No online for the Wii version.

http://twitter.com/sk88z/status/23122648117

@rubberducky00 not on the Wii. It will on XBOX 360 and PS3

NBA Jam Wii no longer on fire, the problem has been contained and the threat of spreading over the internet is no longer imminent.

Thanx EA for smothering that before you could have an out of control success on your hands.

[Halbred]

I just stopped caring about NBA Jam for the Wii.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I'll still get it if it's $30 new @ release.

If they try to charge full price, I'll just go plug in my SNES and forget all about the new one until it hits $20 in the bargain bins a few months down the road.

[broodwars]

I'll still get it if it's $30 new @ release.

If they try to charge full price, I'll just go plug in my SNES and forget all about the new one until it hits $20 in the bargain bins a few months down the road.

I don't think it's going to take even that long.  From the sounds of it, I don't see how this game doesn't become another Dead Space Extraction and hit the bargain bins just as quickly.

[UncleBob]

I'll still get it if it's $30 new @ release.

If they try to charge full price, I'll just go plug in my SNES and forget all about the new one until it hits $20 in the bargain bins a few months down the road.

I don't think it's going to take even that long.  From the sounds of it, I don't see how this game doesn't become another Dead Space Extraction and hit the bargain bins just as quickly.

And then 3rd party games don't sell on the Wii so everyone should just stop trying to make them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX07j9SDFcc

[Ian Sane]

If it gets good reviews I'll buy it some time in the future... USED.  HA HA HA HA!!  Seriously though I don't think anything would offend EA more.

I don't get why EA doesn't get it.  Dead Space Extraction could have got perfect 10 review scores and given out free blowjobs and the game would have bombed because of a key design choice that absolutely pissed off the target demographic.  They made in an on-rails shooter.  That's just a big middle finger to Wii owners.  That's the big joke - that any decent game on the other consoles gets turned into an on-rails spinoff on the Wii.  It's like we cracked jokes about what the Wii Dead Space would be like when it was announced and then they actually made that exact game.

With NBA Jam is has been the same thing.  From day one we assumed that getting this Wii exclusive game was too good to be true.  There HAS to be a catch, right?  And eventually we find out it's getting ported to the other consoles as a bonus with another game.  ****, that is like the sort of worst-case-scenario joke assumption we would have come up with.  But, no, this is really what EA is doing.  Same with no online.  We all assumed that something had to be cut from the Wii version to make it that much more useless and here it is.

It's going to cost $50.  Why?  Because that's fucking stupid and it's the worst-case-scenario we can speculate on.  So it will happen.  EA will do specifically what will turn off Wii owners the most.

[Halbred]

I dunno if it has a price point yet. If it does, and it's $50, that's bullshit. Releasing it at $40 would be better, but I think that if they want sales, it has to be $30.

[nickmitch]

I think I might just get NBA Elite 2011, download Jam, sell Elite back to Gamestop and then use the credit towards preordering a 3DS.

I'll probably net the same amount as the Wii Version.

[Mop it up]

It's amazing that EA still doesn't get it. It's like they aren't even observing the sales of their own games on the Wii. EA is sabotaging themselves to fulfill their own prophecy, that third-party titles don't sell well on Wii. Well of course they don't when they are more expensive and lack key features. I know, I know, that sounds like a conspiracy theory, but when this kind of thing happens I can't help but wonder what's going on.

[TJ Spyke]

You will only get about $25 from GameStop for it (even on release day), so you would end up paying $35 (plus tax) for the XBLA/PSN version of the games. Unless you really want achievements and online play (and don't mind missing out on the Wii-exclusive modes), then you would be better off getting the Wii version if EA is smart and charges $30. You will only save money if EA charges $40 or $50 for the Wii version.

At least EA is not doing that crap Online Pass in their other online Wii games. I refuse to buy any game that has such a system (which seems to be widespread as all games that use it are down in sales compared to previous entries).

[broodwars]

At least EA is not doing that crap Online Pass in their other online Wii games. I refuse to buy any game that has such a system (which seems to be widespread as all games that use it are down in sales compared to previous entries).

I'm not so sure that's due to the Online Pass system so much as the fact that it's only really appeared in yearly online sports titles so far, titles that are probably hit the hardest in a bad economy since the user can just hold onto last year's version and just swap in the roster updates they need without really missing anything.  I'd like to see something like a Call of Duty game (granted, yearly iteration as well, but still differentiated a bit more than with something like Madden) that has an Online Pass system for comparison before we start blaming lower sales on the Online Pass.

[TJ Spyke]

Since Activision's moronic CEO has said he wants to make COD a subscription service, I wouldn't be surprised if next years game does have it.

[nickmitch]

You will only get about $25 from GameStop for it (even on release day), so you would end up paying $35 (plus tax) for the XBLA/PSN version of the games. Unless you really want achievements and online play (and don't mind missing out on the Wii-exclusive modes), then you would be better off getting the Wii version if EA is smart and charges $30. You will only save money if EA charges $40 or $50 for the Wii version.

Right. I'd still have to weigh options if the game is $40, but at $50, I'll more likely than not carry out that plan.

[Adrock]

Since I currently know ZERO people who actually care about NBA Jam, I was really hoping EA could get online multiplayer to work on the Wii. Online Multiplayer > Remix Tour

Everyone is placing the blame solely on EA, but I doubt it's from a lack of trying. This is from June:

Trey Smith: Online is … well OK, we started at thirty frames per second. Everyone’s playing, everyone’s loving it, and that was about six months ago. Then Turmell came up and said, “It’s great! Everything is just like Jam… except for one thing” and we were all like, “What?” and he said, “Jam runs at sixty frames per second.” We were all like, “oh…” So it’s a complicated thing you know, it’s all about pushing it all down that tube just as fast except now we have to do it twice. We did it and that was a monumental success for the team because it now runs at a silky smooth sixty frames per second and it absolutely did make a big difference on the gameplay front.

Once we made that jump, online all of the sudden became that much more difficult. We haven’t given up yet. We still have a few months to tie some things together. I’m not closing that door yet, but I’m gonna tell ya right now we are not there. We are not there, and we are not going to do it half-assed. We aren’t going to put it up, and it’s chunky, and it’s not Jam.

The thing about the Wii is it’s really about four people hanging out in a living room. Especially with the gestures and the taunting that goes on, it’s just like the old arcades with four players standing at a cabinet. There’s that social multiplayer goodness that the Wii and NBA Jam do so well. That was one of the questions we asked ourselves, “Sixty frames or online? Which one will we really bet on?” and sixty frames absolutely improved the gameplay so that’s what we chose and that’s where we are at. I’m not giving up yet, but we are not there yet.

On top of Nintendo's horribly gimped online structure, seems like the Wii just doesn't have the hardware for to handle online multiplayer. Normally, I'd call shenanigans. However, Nintendo couldn't get Super Smash Bros. Brawl to play consistently well online. Additionally, the Wii doesn't have enough RAM to fully support voice chat. It's hard not to fault Nintendo for this in some capacity. Some horrible oversights on Nintendo's part, or perhaps a complete lack of foresight. Trey Smith admitted that they got it working..... just not at 60 fps. That's on the so-called "Turmell Hit List." While I'm disappointed, I appreciate Smith and EA Canada's decision to go all-out or not at all. How easily could EA have just cashed in on the Jam name? They didn't. They tried to make the most authentic Jam experience. If that meant cutting online multiplayer from the Wii version, so be it. I respect that... I'd rather they not curbstomp my fond memories of the series. I remember when Fox tried to bring back Ghostbusters as Extreme Ghostbusters in the 1997. WTF, man?

[BlackNMild2k1]

would a solid 30fps online have ruined the online experience?

how about a solid 45fps? why does it have to be 60fps or nothing at all?
sounds more like a reason to fail than a goal to succeed.

I remain skeptical until it's proven otherwise.

[Adrock]

would a solid 30fps online have ruined the online experience?

According to Mark Turmell, yes. NBA Jam must run at 60 fps and it does.... just not online on the Wii. Apparently, it did make a difference. Smith flat-out explained where they were on the online front and that they were trying. I guess I just don't understand what further proof you need. All along Smith and EA Canada talked about making an authentic NBA Jam game, like the original. If they're going to follow the "Turmell Hit List," then they can't just pick and choose from the list. That defeats the purpose of having the list. If they're going to go out of their way to ask Turmell for guidance and pointers and he flat-out says, "60 fps or GTFO!" then the game better run at 60 fps. Otherwise, what was the point?

[Morari]

No game should run under 60FPS. Console gamers only accept lower frame rates due to old fashion television refresh rates.

I don't understand why a game like this is posing such demands on them. It's a single court that is in view all of the time. It has a limited number of characters running around.

I've never noticed any issues with Brawl's online play except for when one of the players have terrible ping. They drag everything else down.

[nickmitch]

The point is not having a feature in the retail version of a game missing, when it's there in a version of the same game you're giving out for free.

If it runs from 60 down to 45, I'm not gonna care. It's not gonna kill the online experience.

[Mop it up]

Mario Kart Wii can have up to twelve players/systems connected at once, and somehow that game manages to run at 60FPS (unless you're playing the 2-player mode, in which case it is reduced to 30). I don't know if I buy that a game which connects only two systems can't handle a 60FPS game. And really, a little lag here and there won't ruin a game. It's something you learn to deal with and compensate for.

[Adrock]

I'm giving EA Canada a pass because at least they tried. I won't fault them for cutting something because it wasn't up to their standards. That's the same principle every Nintendo fan praises the company for. Clearly, they tried. Smith admitted that they were working on online multiplayer when, if they weren't, he would have just said that there were no plans for online multiplayer. He made no promises. Nothing devious happened here. This is lose/lose for them. If they reduce the frames per second, it's not in the spirit of the original and fans are upset. 60 fps was their vision of NBA Jam and might mean the difference between a block or a steal or a crossover or an alley-oop. That makes all the difference in a game like this. If they stay as true to the original but have to nix online multiplayer, fans are upset. Given the choices, I think they made the right decision. If reducing the frame rate damaged the integrity of the gameplay (i.e. made it a worse game), then no, I don't advocate that option. That's what wrong with gaming. Companies make concessions that compromise gameplay and ultimately release sh*ttier games. No, thank you. Do not want.

The point is not having a feature in the retail version of a game missing, when it's there in a version of the same game you're giving out for free.

The point is that EA took a game built for the Wii and put it on much more powerful hardware. While the Wii can't handle 60 fps online, 360/PS3 can and does so very easily.

[nickmitch]

I still don't think not having 60fps online is a big deal or "not in the spirit of the original." Having it at 30fps is better than not having it at all.

[Mop it up]

While the Wii can't handle 60 fps online,

Yes it can, but I have no idea what kind of work it takes to get it there.

[Adrock]

I still don't think not having 60fps online is a big deal or "not in the spirit of the original." Having it at 30fps is better than not having it at all.

Fair enough but you're not designing the game. Mark Turmell, creator, designer and lead programmer for the original NBA Jam, says otherwise and EA Canada was adamant about checking off everything on the "Turmell Hit List." The guys at EA Canada a pretty passionate about the franchise (which is mainly why I'm defending their decision since obviously, they care about the game and preserving Jam's legacy). The list was a priority for them and apparently, it made the game better. I would love online multiplayer in the Wii version, but I'd rather they prioritize that list if it means making a better core game.

While the Wii can't handle 60 fps online,

Yes it can, but I have no idea what kind of work it takes to get it there.

Yes, I know. You quoted a sentence fragment and took it out of context. To clarify, "While the Wii can't handle NBA Jam in 60 fps online, 360/PS3 can and does so very easily." I'd be inclined to join you guys on this if not for the fact that they put the effort in and it just didn't work out. We know why it got cut. People are quick to point the finger squarely at EA, but Nintendo built the console and the online infrastructure. Could EA Canada have done more? Possibly and I'd prefer they delay the game if it meant they could definitely get it to work, the operative word here being "definitely." Online multiplayer getting the ax is a victim of circumstances. Nintendo can't go back and add more RAM or faster processors and EA Canada has to work with what's available.

I'm currently undecided on which version to buy. $50 is pretty steep though that price is bound to drop and I was banking on online multiplayer since I doubt I can convince anyone I know to play NBA Jam (basketball is definitely the least popular sport in my area). I do prefer owning physical media for games too. Conundrum....

[SixthAngel]

I'm sorry but, to me, this is obviously not some studio "staying true to NBA jam."  They will say whatever they can to put a good spin on them not having online in the game.  60fps is the biggest cop-out ever and a bullet point nowhere near as important as online.

It seems far more likely that they can't due to budget or contraints from up above.  Their bosses came in and essentailly screwed every single one of the developers by sending the game as a freebie to the other consoles.  They obviously don't give a **** about the Wii version so it probably has a budget that barely allows the non-online to be finished. 

If I was developing NBA Jam I wouldnt' give a **** either.  Their resumes just got changed to "Revived the classic franchise NBAJam!" to "Created free give-away game to be sold with a bigger, more important NBA game."

The truth about games now is that the companies throw in online modes just to have something on the box as another selling point.  If EA cared about the game doing well they would have put in online.  All they have to do is say the word since they already showed their power by moving the game to a new console.

The Wii version has been sunk from above and I don't think anyone really has the desire to spend any more time or money on an obviously doomed project.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Oct. 2011 - NBA Jam Tournament Edition Wii
4 player online co-op and EA hosted tournaments with exclusive DLC prizes.

(p.s. It's the same game you just bought only with the online mode we gave away for free in the PS360 versions)