Author Topic: Metroid Other M  (Read 526929 times)

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Offline DAaaMan64

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Re: Metroid Other M
« Reply #1100 on: August 30, 2010, 01:54:25 PM »
Yeah, but they appear to be major flaws based on the reviews.

Can you define major for me? Controls are frustrating on occasional, not everyone will enjoy the story, and the structure of the HUB is a little uncreative.

None of that influences the gameplay in any major ways.  "A blast" as Nick defined the game, is a great description.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Metroid Other M
« Reply #1101 on: August 30, 2010, 02:07:30 PM »
Been out of town for a few days and in regards to Metroid: Other M discussion that was rather poor timing.  So this post is kind of a scattershot of stuff relating to the last three days of posts.

Some people were making a big deal about unskippable cutscenes.  I have never understood that.  If you skip the cutscenes the first time you encounter them how the hell do you have any idea what is going on?  Sometimes specific gameplay related information is revealed, informing you of your next objective.  What I don't like is if I've already seen the cutscene and can't skip it.  The worst is when you get a little scene before a boss, you die on the boss, load up your save and have to go through the whole scene again and again every time you die on the boss.  That's inexusable crap design and if you're complaining about that I support it.  But if I was a dev I wouldn't let you skip the cutscene the first time through.

Wall jumping in Super Metroid does suck though it seems mostly optional to progress through the game so I cut it some slack.  The part where you learn the wall jump from those little dudes is the only time I recall having to use it - you have to get out of the pit.  What I like about Super Metroid is that it is me having the adventure.  I'm not watching Samus, *I* am Samus.  The experience is what I am thinking and what conclusion I am coming to.  I figure out the solution, I explore.  I don't watch.  That's what almost every game gets wrong these days.  The player is a bystander who gets to control at parts.  Super Metroid is very much your experience and that's what make it brilliant.  That's why every new Metroid game gets compared to it because every new Metroid game fucks that up.  I think Metroid Prime is an absolute classic but it still doesn't quite get it as right as Super Metroid.  Blantant hints that hit you over the head with the answer, cutscenes that tell you what you are supposed to be thinking, and perfectly choreographed set piece bosses take the gameplay from the player.  Modern Metroid gets that wrong, modern Zelda gets that wrong, practically every modern game gets that wrong.  The problem is doing it right will make the game harder and will take away a lot of superficial pizzazz and that's not as mainstream friendly so no one has the balls to do it.

For Other M there have been three things that I, and practically everyone, has been concerned about: **** story, iffy controls, linear non-Metroid gameplay.  Now the reviews are out and the issues?  **** story, iffy controls, linear non-Metroid gameplay.  So everything I was concerned about was exactly what they fucked up?  I expected them to get everything else right.  So this makes me a lot less enthusiastic about this game, which is a bummer because my brother and I were talking about it this last weekend and got ourselves pumped for Tuesday's release.  I'm still going to get it but I'm iffy about it.

Normally a game that gets mostly positive reviews is a success.  But this is Metroid.  If it's not a GOTY contender then it's a failure.  I think that Metroid has that kind of reputation (as does Zelda).

Offline gbuell

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Re: Metroid Other M
« Reply #1102 on: August 30, 2010, 03:16:59 PM »
But this is Metroid.  If it's not a GOTY contender then it's a failure.

I never understood this kind of attitude. If a game is fun, a game is fun, it shouldn't really matter what the 3D model that represents the main character looks like or what the title of the game is. There are many games that are neither GOTY contenders nor failures, and I don't think there's any franchise that can't have a game that lands in that middle ground. Allowing expectations to ruin your actual game experience is baffling.
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Offline Dirk Temporo

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Re: Metroid Other M
« Reply #1103 on: August 30, 2010, 03:24:13 PM »
Wait, who complained about the story and the linearity? Because that's the opposite of what I've heard about the game.
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: Metroid Other M
« Reply #1104 on: August 30, 2010, 03:27:58 PM »
I believe G4 (XPlay) was complaining about the story.
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Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: Metroid Other M
« Reply #1105 on: August 30, 2010, 03:30:04 PM »
The story has been one of the biggest complaints in the reviews so far, including GameTrailers review and the NWR review.
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Metroid Other M
« Reply #1106 on: August 30, 2010, 03:46:49 PM »
I have to say that I am deeply in love with 16-bit graphics, 16-bit music, and the Mode 7 of Super Metroid. Is any of that as good as the graphics of modern games like Metroid Prime? Hell no, but for some reason I can't explain I love it more. I guess you could call it nostalgia.
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Offline BwrJim!

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Re: Metroid Other M
« Reply #1107 on: August 30, 2010, 03:57:44 PM »
I am looking forward to the story, as it will be nice to have samus a more fleshed out.   Story in my book is a good thing and if the game play is there its a winner.  Not sure what the linear comments are about either.  In nintendo interviews, they say that there are many exploration elements and back tracking.  I'm sure the story is going to be most present at the beginning to get things going,  but really are they playing a game? or watching a movie?  If you dont care for story, fine metroid is not the place to play then.  Remember the novels inside the prime series?   
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Offline Halbred

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Re: Metroid Other M
« Reply #1108 on: August 30, 2010, 04:07:00 PM »
Those novels were completely optional, but they did tell a coherent story.

The NWR review hasn't been posted yet. :-D

But it will be very shortly.
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Offline kraken613

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Re: Metroid Other M
« Reply #1109 on: August 30, 2010, 04:13:23 PM »
Wait is this out already or is it tomorrow?
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Metroid Other M
« Reply #1110 on: August 30, 2010, 04:17:30 PM »
Wait is this out already or is it tomorrow?

It should be out tomorrow.  This should be a big enough game for Nintendo to make sure it's actually in stores on the release date, rather than the usual "release date/ship date" nonsense.
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Metroid Other M
« Reply #1111 on: August 30, 2010, 04:46:44 PM »
Amazon will probably ship my pre-ordered copy tomorrow, but it will probably take a few days to actually arrive in the mail. I think I should avoid this forum until it arrives so I can avoid the spoilers and/or all the people saying "WOW! This is so awesome!". For me the wait is going to be hard enough even without that.
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Offline Sarail

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Re: Metroid Other M
« Reply #1112 on: August 30, 2010, 05:06:09 PM »
Amazon will probably ship my pre-ordered copy tomorrow, but it will probably take a few days to actually arrive in the mail. I think I should avoid this forum until it arrives so I can avoid the spoilers and/or all the people saying "WOW! This is so awesome!". For me the wait is going to be hard enough even without that.
Ditto. I've got mine ordered from Amazon.com, too.  I can't remember if I had street date shipping selected, though. o_O Oh well. I'll play it soon enough!
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Metroid Other M
« Reply #1113 on: August 30, 2010, 05:10:22 PM »
Quote
I never understood this kind of attitude. If a game is fun, a game is fun, it shouldn't really matter what the 3D model that represents the main character looks like or what the title of the game is. There are many games that are neither GOTY contenders nor failures, and I don't think there's any franchise that can't have a game that lands in that middle ground. Allowing expectations to ruin your actual game experience is baffling.

I don't see what "3D models" has to do with this.  I think it makes sense.  Metroid carries with it a certain expectation of quality.  As a Metroid fan I expect that.  The high quality is a big part of why I am a fan in the first place.  So if the quality slips significantly, even if the product is not complete crap, I consider that a failure.  It's a common brand name thing.  If your brand is supposed to be high end then being "decent" is not acceptable.  Your customers buy your product under the assumption that that brand indicates high quality.
 
At the very least if this is merely an okay or decent Metroid game but not on par with the series as a whole then it is not the direction the series should continue because that would just result in the quality of the series decreasing.  From that perspective it is a failure because either they have to start again to get back on track or continue towards the path to mediocrity.  If It ends up either as an experiment that was quickly abandoned or the start of a slide in the series quality then how is it not a failure?
 
Success and failure is all relative anyway.  I personally am not cool with "okay" Metroid games or even okay games PERIOD.  You can mention fun but I do not have fun with games that are mediocre.  If they were fun then they wouldn't be mediocre.  "Fun" is the whole basis of comparison.  My concern is that this Metroid game is not going to be as enjoyable or fun for me.
 
Quote

 It should be out tomorrow.  This should be a big enough game for Nintendo to make sure it's actually in stores on the release date, rather than the usual "release date/ship date" nonsense.

It better be out tomorrow.  Here in Canada I've been screwed by this before where Americans are beating the game while I'm still waiting an extra day or two.  On the Wii Nintendo has been pretty good on the release date being the actual release date so hopefully it will be fine.  My brother is planning on showing up at my house on Wednesday to play the game.  There is no way I'm letting him play my game first so I was planning on getting it on Tuesday and sinking some good play time in then.  If I don't get it until Wednesday then he's going to be watching me play.

Offline broodwars

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Re: Metroid Other M
« Reply #1114 on: August 30, 2010, 05:25:34 PM »
Ian, seriously can we wait till the game is at least out before we start labeling it a success or failure, or insinuating that this is the start of a decline in the series?  Besides, I'm ok if this doesn't turn out to be the most spectacular Metroid experience, provided they learn from their mistakes here and make the suitable changes in the next iteration in the series.  Until then, this is an experiment and I'll give them credit for at least trying something new.
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Metroid Other M
« Reply #1115 on: August 30, 2010, 06:01:08 PM »
The problem is the reviewing community has already received copies of the game, played it, and posted their opinions/reviews on it. So our expectations for the game are severely tainted as a result of that... some reviewers say its great, and others say its not so great so we're all a bit confused and we're making our own judgments of the game based on hearsay.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Metroid Other M
« Reply #1116 on: August 30, 2010, 06:09:57 PM »
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Ian, seriously can we wait till the game is at least out before we start labeling it a success or failure, or insinuating that this is the start of a decline in the series?

Sorry, I'm not actually declaring it a failure, just saying that if it turns out to be a mediocre Metroid game that I would consider it one.  Hopefully I'll love it.
 
This was however a game that all throughout the development we've been expressing concerns and Sakamoto has been brushing us off.  And the reviews are now suggesting that the common concerns were completely valid.  I personally don't like it when I express concern about something, they brush me off, and then it turns out my concerns were justified all along.  I don't like being right in situations like that.  That's a real pet peeve of mine.
 
If Sakamoto is going to make a Metroid game that no one really asked for, take it in a direction that everyone was iffy about, and on top of that dismiss the very highly regarded Metroid Prime games then he better deliver.  When Retro took Metroid into a first person direction there was a lot of concern but they nailed it and they showed that they knew what they were doing.  Sakamoto has set himself up for the harshest scrutiny.

Offline Adrock

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Re: Metroid Other M
« Reply #1117 on: August 30, 2010, 06:11:33 PM »
It just seems odd to me that you have these 3 huge events Samus took part in in the Prime trilogy that have never been mentioned in Fusion and Other M.
Nintendo doesn't really give a sh*t about canon or a master timeline in any of their franchises. The fans demand it and it just seems like Nintendo pays them lipservice just so everyone will shut the f*ck up about it. In Metroid, Samus saves the galaxy FOUR times in the Prime series that is never mentioned AT ALL in the main series. Four whole games make no reference to the Prime games. Granted, 2 of them were developed before Prime 1 was released, but the point remains. I am fully aware that Nintendo has gone on record to explain its place in the canon. However, they don't treat it as such so it's hard to take it seriously as anything more than lipservice and honestly, it's not worth the headache. To Nintendo, it just is, but that line of thinking is both misguided and simplistic. The canon suffers. In fact, Nintendo barely respects the events of the main series. I accidentally read a spoiler for Other M that completely messes with one of the most important scenes in Fusion. How do you get that wrong?
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Modern Metroid gets that wrong, modern Zelda gets that wrong, practically every modern game gets that wrong.  The problem is doing it right will make the game harder and will take away a lot of superficial pizzazz and that's not as mainstream friendly so no one has the balls to do it.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Metroid Other M
« Reply #1118 on: August 30, 2010, 06:29:19 PM »
Quote
Then, stop playing modern videogames. I don't know what else to tell you.

I ain't saying modern videogames are no good, I'm just saying there is something older games like Super Metroid got right that virtually no games do correctly today.  That doesn't mean I'm not enjoying myself with these new games.  Some of my favourite games ever don't get this element right.  I am merely observing a game design technique that has fallen by the wayside and that is part of why Super Metroid is so special.
 
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 Makes me wonder why they didn't just stick with Jennifer Hale, who is a great voice actress.


Great voice actresses cost more money.

Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: Metroid Other M
« Reply #1119 on: August 30, 2010, 06:40:25 PM »
It just seems odd to me that you have these 3 huge events Samus took part in in the Prime trilogy that have never been mentioned in Fusion and Other M.
Four whole games make no reference to the Prime games. Granted, 2 of them were developed before Prime 1 was released, but the point remains.

Maybe they didn't mention the Prime games because Metroid: Other M is the first game to come out after the Prime games, so your point doesn't remain. How can a game reference something from a game that hasn't been created yet?
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Offline Halbred

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Re: Metroid Other M
« Reply #1120 on: August 30, 2010, 06:42:12 PM »
She's off doing better things--voicing Power Girl in Batman/Superman: Public Enemes.
 
I think.
 
Ian, you're going to hate this game, and I look forward to your inevitable ragerant.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2010, 06:45:15 PM by Halbred »
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Metroid Other M
« Reply #1121 on: August 30, 2010, 07:11:57 PM »
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Ian, you're going to hate this game, and I look forward to your inevitable ragerant.

Most personally identifiable review EVER. :)
 
Seriously though, that's a bummer.  I don't want to go to the store EXPECTING to be throwing my money away.
 
My brother once asked me why I went to the theatres to see Star Wars: Episode III when I clearly hated Episode II and knew the series was going in a direction I didn't like and was essentially paying to see a movie I expected I was going to hate.  I told him I felt an obligation to see it so as to form a proper opinion of the prequels as a whole.  Being somewhat of a geek this seemed to be mandatory geek viewing.
 
As a Metroid fan unless this thing was getting really bad review scores left and right (and it hasn't) then it was inevitable that I buy it just to at the very least see what it was like.  It's a mandatory purchase for a Metroid fan and Metroid is a mandatory purchase for Nintendo fans.

Offline Mop it up

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Re: Metroid Other M
« Reply #1122 on: August 30, 2010, 07:58:47 PM »
I think part of the problem is that the game was released after the Prime series. Other M in comparison to those games feels like a step back. I believe that if Other M were to have released on the N64 and directly followed up Super Metroid, it would still be praised today as one of the best games in the series. As it stands, Other M had some big shoes to fill, and in my opinion, it didn't quite make it.
@ Nick, you're probably right.  The biggest obstacle to Other M's success is that it's billed as a Metroid sequel; it's being largely accepted or rejected according to people's perceptions about what a Metroid game should be.   Whether or not it's a good game, it seems to fail to meet the expectations of many of the existing fans.
made it to the end without losing interest.
Nailed it, though I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting certain things from a series. As for myself, I never played a Metroid game until 2002 so I don't have any attachments to them, and therefore I think I'll enjoy this game for what it is without issue.

Offline BwrJim!

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Re: Metroid Other M
« Reply #1123 on: August 31, 2010, 12:22:14 AM »
"I think I'll enjoy this game for what it is without issue."  Nailed it Mop...

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Offline Adrock

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Re: Metroid Other M
« Reply #1124 on: August 31, 2010, 12:59:11 AM »
Maybe they didn't mention the Prime games because Metroid: Other M is the first game to come out after the Prime games, so your point doesn't remain. How can a game reference something from a game that hasn't been created yet?
Fusion came out on the same day as Prime. Development of both games was concurrent albeit in Japan and Texas respectively. Senior designers in Japan (which, according to wikipedia, included Sakamoto... you've used wikipedia in the past so it's fair here) communicated regularly with Retro throughout the development of Prime. I'm sure the plot of both games came up at some point, yet Fusion makes absolutely no mention of Prime. A vague reference in Fusion to Phazon or Metroid Prime/Dark Samus would have been nice. The secret ending of Prime laid the groundwork for a Samus doppelganger which would have worked well thematically with SA-X.

And even if that's not good enough for you...
Without spoiling anything, Halbred, are there any nods to the Prime series in the game?  I wouldn't expect there would be given Sakamoto's seeming indifference to them, but you do mention fanservice....
Not that I've seen, sadly. What fanservice there is (and there's a fail amount) references the other 2D games.
Straight from someone who completed Other M. I'd like to play the game to see for myself (and I will tomorrow). There's absolutely no excuse for Other M to disregard the Prime series entirely, especially considering Prime wrapped up its arc in 2007. Seems like Sakamoto is avoiding it on purpose. If Other M fails to reference the Prime games in any way, the canon suffers. There's no reason not to. Prime is a part of series canon because, outside of the games, Nintendo says it is. The games, however, are anything but integrated.
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