Topic: Metroid Other M

[broodwars]

I see now that Nintendo has found a new way to "highly recommend" that we take a break: they make a control scheme that actually hurts to use after a couple hours. Seriously, after two hours of play, this tiny D-pad's killing my thumb.      I'll probably go watch a movie or something for a few hours to give my hands a rest.  It looks like I have a boss to defeat first, though...as soon as I can find out what in the world this game wants me to "look" at in 1st person mode. -_-'

[Caliban]

The art folio's so soft (it has this soft leather feel to it)... and the cards in it are awesome too.

[broodwars]

Well, I made it to the sequence of events in the Exam building, and I think I'll have to call it a night there.  I have to hand it to Nintendo: the old addictive Metroid feeling is still alive and well.  Even with my thumb hurting fairly badly from carpal tunnel (seriously, Sakamoto, did you ever take into account that the Wii Remote's D-pad is too small for extended play with games like this?), I didn't want to put it down.  So far, I've been pretty satisfied with the game, especially the boss encounters.  The dub's not as bad as it looked in the video reviews: oddly enough, Samus' acting is actually more robotic in her internal monologues than when she's talking with the NPCs (who, themselves, sound fine).      I do have to agree with a previous poster, though: the sequences where they put the camera right behind Samus' back and make you trudge through environments RE4-style are cinematic and all, but with these controls and as slow as Samus walks in that mode, it's just a chore when that happens.  As for the story, so far I'm kind of indifferent to it.  It's not offensively bad, but it's not terribly engaging either.

[Killer_Man_Jaro]

Sold. If Broodwars, the second biggest sceptic beforehand, is having a good time, it's likely I can enjoy Metroid: Other M. Indifference to the story is all I was expecting and I'm sure the controls will feel natural after an adjustment period - it didn't bother me in Super Paper Mario. As far as the exploration goes... well, I won't know until I see for myself on 3rd September.

[broodwars]

Sold. If Broodwars, the second biggest sceptic beforehand, is having a good time, it's likely I can enjoy Metroid: Other M.

Only second biggest skeptic?!  Who was the smug jerk who actually DARED to hate Other M more than ME?!  *Sally Brown voice* HE OWES ME RESTITUTION!   

Seriously, it's a pretty decent game.  It's not quite what I look for in a Metroid game, the controls are...uncomfortable over extended play sessions, and the game has quite a few goofy elements, but I've been engaged the whole time I've played it.  Honestly, that's more than I could say about Super Metroid when I finally got through a full playthrough over the weekend, and certainly more than Prime 2.

[greybrick]

Yeah...I stopped seeing the need to read manuals when games started integrating tutorials into the gameplay anyway.  What's the point?

Knights in the Nightmare is the point Sundoulos.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Well, I made it to the sequence of events in the Exam building, and I think I'll have to call it a night there.  I have to hand it to Nintendo: the old addictive Metroid feeling is still alive and well.  Even with my thumb hurting fairly badly from carpal tunnel (seriously, Sakamoto, did you ever take into account that the Wii Remote's D-pad is too small for extended play with games like this?), I didn't want to put it down.  So far, I've been pretty satisfied with the game, especially the boss encounters.  The dub's not as bad as it looked in the video reviews: oddly enough, Samus' acting is actually more robotic in her internal monologues than when she's talking with the NPCs (who, themselves, sound fine).      I do have to agree with a previous poster, though: the sequences where they put the camera right behind Samus' back and make you trudge through environments RE4-style are cinematic and all, but with these controls and as slow as Samus walks in that mode, it's just a chore when that happens.  As for the story, so far I'm kind of indifferent to it.  It's not offensively bad, but it's not terribly engaging either.

Surprisingly I think I agree with most of what you said. Really I think the story is a promising first step at Nintendo trying its hand at adding more storytelling in games, so it is a work in progress.

[Sarail]

Here's my take after about 2 and half hours of play...

The game is fantastic. All of the reviews proclaiming uncomfortableness in the play control, horrible dialog and voice acting, almost MGS style delivery of cinematic sequences, or even the awkward use of switching to 1st-person view for scanning/missiles are dead wrong.

This game feels like a Metroid game through and through. It's how I originally envisioned the Metroid series would evolve before the entire Prime series came to fruition anyway. I mean, if you couldn't sense the grand cinematic scope of Super Metroid (or even Metroid!) back in the day, and then as you got older and played more evolved 3D type games, and wondered, "Hmmm.. what would Metroid be like nowadays?" ... well, this is how it felt for me.

Samus runs and guns so silky smooth. The digital control is actually quite precise -- you can tell because if you barely tap in any one direction as Samus is standing still, she'll pivot in that direction (you'll also notice this same "pivoting" action is done the EXACT same way in Super Metroid). This makes the switch to 1st-person view so smooth. Oh, and the uneasiness of using this view and flipping the controller to and fro? Try not taking your right hand off the bottom of the remote as you flip it, keeping your left hand at the top -- use your left index finger for holding "B" to scan/lock-on, and use your right thumb on the "1" button to fire missiles or your Power Beam instead of the "A" button...does the exact same thing. This method is SO much easier to keep the controller centered in your grip, making the transition back and forth easier. The same can also be said for the "healing/refilling missiles" move -- use your left thumb on the "A" button as you tilt the remote upwards.  This always keeps both hands on the remote at all times. Like I said, so much easier.

And I'll say this, I love the cinematic sequences. Sakamoto and crew have done an amazing job. Samus' voice? I love it. Her internal monologue sounds like an internal monologue, and the voice acting as she communicates to the supporting cast is quite good, too. And the supporting cast is great, too! Anthony Higgs is probably my favorite of the other characters at the moment...he's quite the character.  I honestly don't understand all this crap and nonsense that's been spewed out of reviewers' mouths.  It baffles me to no extent. This game is fantastic. And the Team Ninja flair that's been added in -- the Sensemove, Lethal Attack, and Overblast -- basic moves that everyone's seen in all of the videos released thus far on the game? They fit PERFECTLY into Samus' arsenal. Fluid, smooth, and fun as hell to execute.

THIS is how I imagined Metroid to be coming into world of 3D gaming. Nice job, Sakamoto and Team Ninja. I commend thee!

[broodwars]

Here's my take after about 2 and half hours of play...

The game is fantastic. All of the reviews proclaiming uncomfortableness in the play control...are dead wrong.

My thumb says otherwise.  After a 3 or so hours of playing with that D-pad, my thumb was in carpal tunnel hell.  The control scheme itself is ok.  I just wish they allowed us to use the Classic Controller instead, if only for its much larger D-pad (and possibly analog stick).

[Sarail]

Here's my take after about 2 and half hours of play...

The game is fantastic. All of the reviews proclaiming uncomfortableness in the play control...are dead wrong.

My thumb says otherwise.  After a 3 or so hours of playing with that D-pad, my thumb was in carpal tunnel hell.  The control scheme itself is ok.  I just wish they allowed us to use the Classic Controller instead, if only for its much larger D-pad (and possibly analog stick).

I just don't see how you guys can complain about that. Yes, the D-pad is slightly smaller on the Wii remote, but it doesn't give me problems at all. And I don't have small thumbs... hmmm.. Sure, I'd love it if I could control Samus with CC Pro using the D-pad. For reasons listed above in my mini-review, I'm actually very glad that they stuck with the D-pad. I think it might actually feel strange to control her using an analog stick -- based completely on the fact that she traverses small corridors in this game... just like the previous 2D games. It's here that I think the restriction helps.

[Ian Sane]

So far this seems like it's both a really good game and a really bad game and the two sides are fighting to see which game prevails.  I've never played a game where I'll be all like "oh yeah!" and then "ugh" and then back to "oh yeah!" in the span of a few minutes.

The story is actually worse than I thought it would be.  I'm not as bothered by the d-pad controls as I am with the first person stuff.  It's awkward to switch views and the fact that I can't move when in first person makes things just a little harder then it seems they should be.  And what is frustrating about that is Sakamoto's whole "new NES game" bullshit doesn't even hold up because I use A to go into morphball.  That's THREE action buttons.  The NES only has two.  This dipshit already failed at his retarded vision so he might as well have given us options.

There are two things that really bug me that no one has really mentioned.  I hate how it's Adam telling me I can't use this or that.  What Sakamoto fails to realize is that Adam is not bossing Samus around, he's bossing ME around.  I'm Samus, I'm the player.  Following orders isn't fun.  Why after a day of taking orders from my boss would I want to recreate this in videogame form?  This is very much like the three foot high fence you can't cross.  Nintendo usually doesn't do that because they're smart.  They realize if you make it so the player wants to go somewhere and you don't let him that it will piss him off.  So they disguise things a little better so there is no visible unreachable area.  If I have not found the bombs I don't think "arrgh, why can't I bomb this?"  Early in the game when I tried to bomb stuff I would mouth "**** you" under my breath.  I don't do this in Zelda when I don't have the bow because I don't have it.  It's a perfectly reasonable explanation why I can't use it then.  But this?  Why don't I just IGNORE ADAM?  I don't give a **** about this douchebag.  You think if my life is in danger I'm not going to use my full abilities because some stupid motherfucker said so?  It's a convention that makes it frustrating to not have the item, which is something I never felt before in any Metroid game.

The second thing is I hate the new health system.  Not being able to replenish health except at save points and with that last ditch refuel thing is annoying enough but I've found something else.  In Metroid typically you wipe out weak popcorn enemies to replenish health and missiles.  Here I'm just firing endlessly at stupid bugs to get them out of my way.  They aren't really a threat but they're in the way and blasting them is, well, boring.  Getting health and missiles from enemies brought with it a certain satisfaction and purpose to taking out tons of weak enemies.  Without the purpose the whole thing is a chore.

I am overall still enjoying myself.  But it seems that any new idea or concept here sucks.  Only the existing Metroid conventions are what keep the game enjoyable.  With Metroid Prime I enjoyed all the new concepts and felt they worked well with the old ideas.

I do however think that a third person 3D Metroid is doable.  The engine for this game could make a great Metroid game in someone else's hands.

[TheFleece]

So far this seems like it's both a really good game and a really bad game and the two sides are fighting to see which game prevails.  I've never played a game where I'll be all like "oh yeah!" and then "ugh" and then back to "oh yeah!" in the span of a few minutes.

The story is actually worse than I thought it would be.  I'm not as bothered by the d-pad controls as I am with the first person stuff.  It's awkward to switch views and the fact that I can't move when in first person makes things just a little harder then it seems they should be.  And what is frustrating about that is Sakamoto's whole "new NES game" bull**** doesn't even hold up because I use A to go into morphball.  That's THREE action buttons.  The NES only has two.  This dip**** already failed at his retarded vision so he might as well have given us options.

There are two things that really bug me that no one has really mentioned.  I hate how it's Adam telling me I can't use this or that.  What Sakamoto fails to realize is that Adam is not bossing Samus around, he's bossing ME around.  I'm Samus, I'm the player.  Following orders isn't fun.  Why after a day of taking orders from my boss would I want to recreate this in videogame form?  This is very much like the three foot high fence you can't cross.  Nintendo usually doesn't do that because they're smart.  They realize if you make it so the player wants to go somewhere and you don't let him that it will piss him off.  So they disguise things a little better so there is no visible unreachable area.  If I have not found the bombs I don't think "arrgh, why can't I bomb this?"  Early in the game when I tried to bomb stuff I would mouth "**** you" under my breath.  I don't do this in Zelda when I don't have the bow because I don't have it.  It's a perfectly reasonable explanation why I can't use it then.  But this?  Why don't I just IGNORE ADAM?  I don't give a **** about this douchebag.  You think if my life is in danger I'm not going to use my full abilities because some stupid mother****er said so?  It's a convention that makes it frustrating to not have the item, which is something I never felt before in any Metroid game.

The second thing is I hate the new health system.  Not being able to replenish health except at save points and with that last ditch refuel thing is annoying enough but I've found something else.  In Metroid typically you wipe out weak popcorn enemies to replenish health and missiles.  Here I'm just firing endlessly at stupid bugs to get them out of my way.  They aren't really a threat but they're in the way and blasting them is, well, boring.  Getting health and missiles from enemies brought with it a certain satisfaction and purpose to taking out tons of weak enemies.  Without the purpose the whole thing is a chore.

I am overall still enjoying myself.  But it seems that any new idea or concept here sucks.  Only the existing Metroid conventions are what keep the game enjoyable.  With Metroid Prime I enjoyed all the new concepts and felt they worked well with the old ideas.

I do however think that a third person 3D Metroid is doable.  The engine for this game could make a great Metroid game in someone else's hands.

I feel the same way about killing enemies, health, Adam and weapons. Although even though you don't get health or ammo from enemies sometimes after defeating all enemies you find the location of Health or Missles if there any hidden. Even so I am currently stuck and want Super Missles so bad I'm upset about it.

[Ian Sane]

I will mention that being periodically stuck is actually kind of nice because that is part of the Metroid experience for me.  Sometimes you just have to stop and figure out what the hell to do next.  It's much better than being told exactly what to do.  However it isn't quite perfect because the game doesn't let you go back and explore very much so it is possible to be stuck but you can't go back to the save point.  So it's either figure it out or turn the game off and lose some progress.

But the feeling of wondering what to do and then figuring out is a real thrill and they have got that right in this game.  The atmosphere is also pretty damn cool (I prefer music but this works quite well).  Early on there was a part where I could hear some large enemy but couldn't see him.  That was some pretty cool foreshadowing.

I think what we need is Sakamoto and Team Ninja with some sort of veto-person filtering the ideas.  I'll bet in the past that was Gunpei Yokoi.  Metroid Fusion was the first Metroid Sakamoto made without him and that was where all this narrative and linear progression stuff started.  Yokoi probably kept him in line.

[broodwars]

Actually, Ian, I think I did mention that having to have Adam "authorize" that I use my own stuff bugged me earlier.      Really, it's not so much that I don't have equipment that bugs as that the game specifically tells me "Adam hasn't authorized X" when I try to use an upgrade.  Early in the game, that error message continually prompted me to mutter "**** you."  I don't know why Sakamoto even needed to put in that element.  It's not like Super Metroid ever gives an explanation why Samus doesn't have all her gear from Metroids 1 and 2 at the beginning of the game.  Even Batman: Arkham Asylum (which is Metroid-like) never explains why Batman doesn't have all his gear at the beginning.  He just doesn't, and then has to go back to a safe area or fly in the upgrade he needs.
 
Or look at Metroid Prime 3 and how they handled it: you had all the basic gear at the beginning of the game, and Samus only got more powerful.  I don't know why Sakamoto thought the whole "authorization" thing was really necessary, and it also has a few plot holes.  For instance, after the first boss Adam makes a point to let everyone know that "freeze guns are authorized."  Isn't one of Samus' weapons a freeze beam?  Why, then, can't I use it?  Granted, I don't need it at the moment, but there's no logical reason why I shouldn't be able to use it.
 
As for the health issue, honestly I'm ok with how that turned out.  I always found farming enemies for health and ammo tedious, and it always made about as much sense as wild wolves dropping gold in RPGs.  I just wish Sakamoto had used a different button combination other than A + Wiimote tilted up.  Already several times I've done that I've gone into Morph Ball mode by mistake.  Why not just use the B trigger, since it seems nothing else does?

[Dirk Temporo]

Yes, the D-pad is slightly smaller on the Wii remote,

Unless you have monstrous thumbs, the Wii Remote D-Pad is a lot more than "slightly smaller" than pretty much anything. The only smaller D-Pad pretty much EVER was on the Gamecube remote.

[Nick DiMola]

Holy crap, Zach, I'm missing the exact same one! Me and Chessa sat there for an hour last night trying to get it, since it's the only one left. So freakin' frustrating!

EDIT: Hey ... where'd Zach's comment go?

[Halbred]

I found the answer, dude!

Okay, go back to the quarter-circle room where you fought the treeosaur. Run to the left side of the room, underneath the automated wall thing. See the metal surface on the ground? I haven't tried this 'cause I'm at work, but according to the Internet, you can speed boost through the wall underneath the automated lift by running along the metal surface, and this will take you to that mysterious door.

I'm going to try at lunch!

[NWR_Neal]

I may or may not write a second review for the site, but I can safely say that I really really dig this game. It's more or less what I wanted/expected out of a modern Metroid game. The silly overwrought story is entertaining at the least, and I'm definitely intrigued to see what mildly ridiculous thing is going to happen next. The gameplay is aces for me, and my only complaints are that my hand hurts with the tiny d-pad after a while and the first-person "look for a clue!" moments are sometimes stupid.

But wow. I didn't think I'd like this game as much as I am.

[Adrock]

Some quick thoughts:

1. My issue with the story is rooted more so in the presentation than the plot itself though admittedly, I haven't gotten that far. Quite frankly, Project M is treating the audience like idiots. Anyone who has taken a film class or an introductory writing class.... actually, not even, anyone who has watched a movie or read a book could tell you what they're doing wrong. Show, don't tell. Samus is practically narrating everything she does. Young Samus puts her thumb down, Samus narrates "I gave a thumbs down and now I will explain in full detail why I did that." Voice overs are tricky. I took a screenwriting class where I was told to avoid it at all costs because it's archaic. Yes and no. I think it can work in some instances. In Other M, not so much, at least so far. Samus flat-out says something along the lines of "Adam was a father figure to me." Of course, he is. That's lazy storytelling though. It's almost like Samus is reading the Spark Notes analysis to me.

2. I'm still getting used to the switch to 1st person. It's a littler finicky though I'm sure I'll get it with time so I'm not faulting the game for my lack of skillz.

3. So far, I don't buy the sexism complaints. It would have made more sense if Samus decided to follow Adam's order of authorized weapon use after he explicit made it. I think it's pretty clear, in terms of plot, why Samus is following orders, especially after she spends 45 seconds of my life explaining how much she respects Adam.

[greybrick]

I may or may not write a second review for the site, but I can safely say that I really really dig this game. It's more or less what I wanted/expected out of a modern Metroid game. The silly overwrought story is entertaining at the least, and I'm definitely intrigued to see what mildly ridiculous thing is going to happen next. The gameplay is aces for me, and my only complaints are that my hand hurts with the tiny d-pad after a while and the first-person "look for a clue!" moments are sometimes stupid.

But wow. I didn't think I'd like this game as much as I am.

I think Saturday I will head down to the Gamefly Box and rent this one, do you think I can marathon it and suck all the fun out in two days' time?

[Halbred]

ONE HUNDRED PERCENT, BABY!

Unlocks? Not really. Hard mode and the rest of the concept art. I would've liked a Zero Suit Samus character model to rotate and ogle.
 
Nate, you can totally marathon this game.

[Ian Sane]

Show, don't tell. Samus is practically narrating everything she does. Young Samus puts her thumb down, Samus narrates "I gave a thumbs down and now I will explain in full detail why I did that."

Early on when she first meets up with the marine dudes she explains that she told Adam why she was there and circumstances leading to going there and stuff.  This took longer than if she just told the characters "I answered the distress call" when they asked what she was doing there.  They had her say that she told them something instead of having her actually say it when the whole fucking scene is them talking.  She meets up with Anthony and gives us this whole spiel about how she knows him.  Why doesn't she just say "Anthony Higgs?  I haven't seen you since I left the military."  I haven't been to film school or taken any writing classes but I've seen enough movies to know that THAT is how it is usually done.
 
Samus sounds like she's reading us a book.  It's like someone had to adapt a book to a screenplay and all they did was give each character their lines from the book and had Samus read everything else.  I'm half-expecting her to say "he said..." before every character says something.
 
This isn't just bad like most videogame stories are bad.  It's bad by even low videogame stories standards.  Most videogames have retarded stories with okay presentation.  Metroid: Other M is a bad story told poorly.

[Mop it up]

I may or may not write a second review for the site,

I think that would be a good idea. I haven't read Halbred's review and I won't until after I have completed the game, but I did see the score, and some of the thoughts he's posted in this and various other threads. It would seem that he had a pretty extreme emotional reaction to the game, and as such, I think it would be a good idea to get a second opinion out there from the opposite end of the spectrum.

[Halbred]

Mop, if you think my posted review was emotional, I can't WAIT to post my original, uncut, very reactive review as a blog. :-D

The posted review is actually not very emotional. I wrote it days after the original review, having let it all settle in. My basic problem is that the story mode shackles the player from experiencing the kind of enjoyable all-range exploration that Metroid games are all about. The station doesn't actually open up until you complete the story mode, at which point you can go nuts. That's great, but I didn't appreciate having to slog through eight hours of tedious story mode to get there.

[Mop it up]

I haven't read your review yet, but I did see you say that you were going to put your original, raw, negative review as a blog. So, yeah. I'd like to also see a review from someone who is a little less invested in Metroid and more level-headed, that would be closer to my taste.