Topic: Metroid Other M

[Spinnzilla]

I just think it's really strange that Nintendo lets two franchises, Metroid and Donkey Kong Country, that established themselves on the SNES be restricted to NES controller set up in their latest sequels. 

[MegaByte]

DKCR has Nunchuk controls.

[Spinnzilla]

DKCR has Nunchuk controls.

Oh, whoops.  Does it support both NES and Nunchuk controls?

[broodwars]

I just think it's really strange that Nintendo lets two franchises, Metroid and Donkey Kong Country, that established themselves on the SNES be restricted to NES controller set up in their latest sequels.

  Have we received confirmation yet that there will be no Classic Controller or Nunchuck support in DKCR as well?  Given Retro's usual excellence in controls, that would be rather baffling.

EDIT:  Yeah, that's more like it.  I thought Retro had more class than to restrict the player's control options to just the NES-style Wiimote.

As for your question, I don't find it strange.  Nintendo as a company defines itself as being about "what's old", not "what's new".  That's especially been true of their work on Wii with their push to make a 25 year-old control scheme (the NES controller) the new hotness.

[Spinnzilla]

I just think it kind of goes directly against their original Wii selling point with having a new way to play.  Not that I'm saying it's a bad thing.  I really enjoyed NSMB Wii.

[MegaByte]

Oh, whoops.  Does it support both NES and Nunchuk controls?

Yes, but it wasn't shown at E3.  The motion controls were kind of broken on the Remote+Nunchuk setup; hopefully, they'll fix it.

[TJ Spyke]

New Super Mario Bros. Wii could still be played new ways, blame Sakamoto for the lackluster controls since he forced Team Ninja to do it. We see the potential of what could have happened had Team Ninja been allowed to develop the game the way they wanted too.

[dack25]

I watched the G4 review and the extended talk back session and obviously the story got on people's nerves to the point where they really didn't talk about the strengths or flaws with the game. It doesn't help that you start the review with "holy crap this game sucks" mainly because they were disappointed about the story. I think the reviewer in the talk back session had a good point about Samus being timid despite the fact that she had saved the galaxy/world multiple times or when facing an enemy she's beaten multiple times. I give Nintendo credit for trying something different in terms of story telling with one of their games especially with another developer but maybe it backfired. G4/X-Play is a little weird sometimes too because I remember during the Prime 2 (which got like a 4 out of 5) review they felt the need to point out that it wasn't new or advanced enough to compete with the likes of San Andreas or Halo 2 or something like that.

At the end of the day renting the game is still an option.

[KDR_11k]

perplexing since she gives the game a 2/5 despite having nothing good to say about the game in the review.

Maybe they're like me and like to keep one score reserved for utterly broken or unfun games. No matter how much the game butchers Metroid there's no way it's down there with the worst.

[SixthAngel]

I just think it's really strange that Nintendo lets two franchises, Metroid and Donkey Kong Country, that established themselves on the SNES be restricted to NES controller set up in their latest sequels. 

But it isn't a NES controller because it uses the pointing ability to go first person.

This is exactly as I expected from reviewers.  Some people love the game while others can't get over the fact that Samus finally has a voice and isn't exactly what they imagined.

[KDR_11k]

Well, I just canceled my preorder because of the Destructoid review and the G4TV discussion. Not because it's negative or anything (funnily enough Destructoid liked the voice acting) but because they mentioned that the progression structure is like Fusion with areas locked off by the story and only the final parts letting you go everywhere. I hate that kind of structure in a "Metrovania", it's why I didn't like Fusion, Corruption, Portrait of Ruin or Order of Ecclesia as much as their predecessors.

[Adrock]

because they mentioned that the progression structure is like Fusion with areas locked off by the story and only the final parts letting you go everywhere.

Every main series Metroid game does this. Fusion is just the first one that tied it specifically to the plot rather than strictly when a certain item is acquired. In Super Metroid, you couldn't go everywhere until close to the very end. There was no way to circumvent most strategically placed obstacles. Instead of Adam telling you that you were too weak or didn't have the equipment necessary to proceed, you just reached a door you couldn't open or an area that would literally kill you (i.e. Norfair) and turned around to find whatever it was that you needed.

I feel like the problem that a lot of people had was that they didn't like Adam telling you what you needed or where you needed to go. They liked wandering around until they found it or remembering a door they abandoned earlier that they could finally open. It didn't kill exploration, but it limited it. I guess I didn't really mind, but maybe I'm just easy to please.

[KDR_11k]

because they mentioned that the progression structure is like Fusion with areas locked off by the story and only the final parts letting you go everywhere.

Every main series Metroid game does this. Fusion is just the first one that tied it specifically to the plot rather than strictly when a certain item is acquired. In Super Metroid, you couldn't go everywhere until close to the very end. There was no way to circumvent most strategically placed obstacles. Instead of Adam telling you that you were too weak or didn't have the equipment necessary to proceed, you just reached a door you couldn't open or an area that would literally kill you (i.e. Norfair) and turned around to find whatever it was that you needed.

I feel like the problem that a lot of people had was that they didn't like Adam telling you what you needed or where you needed to go. They liked wandering around until they found it or remembering a door they abandoned earlier that they could finally open. It didn't kill exploration, but it limited it. I guess I didn't really mind, but maybe I'm just easy to please.

Context is critical to me. It's important that I must see the boundaries of the area I can reach myself and the interweaving structure of the better games makes the map feel larger. In PoR you can go anywhere in the sub-areas but there's only one way in or out. There's no chance of happening upon a new area when you don't expect it outside of the underdeveloped main castle.

Arbitrary story limitations on where I can go are a Zelda thing, not Metroid. Metroid is you vs the environment.

[Mop it up]

Very interesting. Sounds like they may not have a good balance in regards to who Samus is, a mixture of masculine and feminine traits. Still can't wait to play it, it sounds like the core game is pretty good even if it is (Like I expected) inferior to the Prime games.

I don't really feel a need to compare it to the Metroid Prime games myself. It's similar to comparing them to Super Metroid: They have such different gameplay styles and conventions that I like the games for different reasons. They're simply different, so I can't really see them on a scale of better/worse.

[Marty]

Having now read most of the reviews currently available, I must say, I've mellowed slightly (much like the stages of grief, it would appear i've reached the stage of acceptance). I've now resigned myself to the fact that this game will not be a masterpiece of game design like Super Metroid, It will not be as immersive as Metroid Prime, and neither will it have the slick and responsive controls of Prime 3: Corruption. I may not like the direction that this game is taking the series, but if this game manages to attract enough attention and garner enough sales for the franchise to continue and perhaps even expand, then that can only be a good thing.

[Mop it up]

I've now resigned myself to the fact that this game will not be a masterpiece of game design like Super Metroid, It will not be as immersive as Metroid Prime, and neither will it have the slick and responsive controls of Prime 3: Corruption.

Given the reviews we've seen you can probably be certain of that last one, but is it fair to claim a game you have never played will not be immersive or a masterpiece of game design? Are you even going to give it a chance or will you cling to the negative aspects of it so you can continue to criticize it?

[NeoStar9X]

Majority of the reviews are 8s or higher. G4 has always had horrible reviews. Not simply due to scores but how they've been written over time. The fact that nothing is really said about the game outside of story shows that. All games will have their outlier review scores. G4's in this case is to largely be ignored.

In the end their are simply opinions of these people.

I no longer care about reviews anyway. All I want to see is video of games to see how they look and play. I just want to know if controls are broken to the point it's unplayable. After that  I buy what seems interesting and judge for myself. I do take into consideration what other normal players think of the game. Those that have taken the time to play the game and aren't rushing simply to get a review out in order to get website traffic or TV ratings. Those paid to do "reviews" are always suspect in my eyes. I'm likely to consider a person blogging their opinion over someone employed on a game site like IGN, Gamespot, etc.

I'm not a big Metroid fan (I have the first one on the NES or it might have been the Gameboy one, Metroid Prime 1 and 3). I was impressed by the videos of Other M. I like the direction Team Ninja has seemed to take things and I'm looking forward to playing it. I'm not looking for some masterpiece when it comes to the story. Just to be entertained and to have fun. That's really all I look for when it comes to games. If it can do that for me personally then job well done.

[Marty]

I've now resigned myself to the fact that this game will not be a masterpiece of game design like Super Metroid, It will not be as immersive as Metroid Prime, and neither will it have the slick and responsive controls of Prime 3: Corruption.

Given the reviews we've seen you can probably be certain of that last one, but is it fair to claim a game you have never played will not be immersive or a masterpiece of game design? Are you even going to give it a chance or will you cling to the negative aspects of it so you can continue to criticize it?

I suppose it is slightly presumptuous of me, given that i haven't played the game yet, but i think they're fair presumptions based on the reviews thus far. I'm certainly not 'clinging' to the games negative aspects, in fact as i said in my post, i've accepted that there are aspects of the game that i will not appreciate, and that's fine. Neither am i attempting to criticise the game, i'm simply stating my impressions based on what i've read or seen thus far.

[Mop it up]

I see. I'm sorry if I sounded forceful, I was just wondering if you were going into the game with a negative view. I think that someone who has negative expectations for a game is more likely to not enjoy it, thereby fulfilling their perception. They are likely to focus on its faults instead of its high points.

I no longer care about reviews anyway. All I want to see is video of games to see how they look and play. I just want to know if controls are broken to the point it's unplayable.

I find I'm pretty similar to you. I'll read some reviews to get an idea of the content of a game, but I don't pay much mind to the opinions of it. After some of the controversies I've heard about paid reviewers, and also that they probably rush through games since they have so many to review, I can't trust their opinions as much as a regular player who's in it for no other reason than passion for gaming.

I'm also not really a Metroid fan, having never heard of the series until Samus's inclusion in Super Smash Brothers on Nintendo 64 and never playing one of the games until 2002. I think that's why I don't really have a preference with Metroid games: I've played them all now except Pinball and Hunters, and I've enjoyed all the ones released after Metroid II, especially because they tried new and different things.

[Marty]

I see. I'm sorry if I sounded forceful, I was just wondering if you were going into the game with a negative view. I think that someone who has negative expectations for a game is more likely to not enjoy it, thereby fulfilling their perception. They are likely to focus on its faults instead of its high points.

You didn't come across as forceful at all. In fact i agree, going into a game with negative expectations can skew a persons perception of a game. Unfortunately, when you're invested in a series and character (as I am with Metroid), it can be quite difficult to forgo your expectations. I would hope that by accepting that there are aspects that I won't like, I'm displaying realistic expectations, and hopefully this will enable me to enjoy the game for what is, and not what it could have been.

[Halbred]

I'm writing the review right now. Beat the game an hour ago.

[broodwars]

Just as an aside, with Other M coming out on Tuesday I decided to finally grit my teeth and try once again (seriously, this must be my 5th or 6th time now) to get through Super Metroid and finally beat it before that game comes out.  I've never managed it before, as I usually quit around the point in the game where you get the Gravity Suit, just before dealing with Meridia.  That's about the point where I get bored or frustrated and shut the game off to go on to something else.  That's where I am about now, in fact, as I'm slogging my way through Meridia now.  While having the CC Pro this time and fine-tuning the control layout to somewhat match Zero Mission has greatly helped make the game more enjoyable than it's been on previous attempts, I still don't get the whole "best game EVAR!" hype this game has acquired.  Especially frustrating is that this game has a nasty habit of putting power-ups beyond two layers of upgrades, but you can only see one at first.  So you'll see a spot where you can tell you need a certain upgrade later (like the speed boots), you come all the way back with that upgrade...and then you find out the developers decided to be jerks and added grapple points or water in the way just to laugh at you and make sure you know you wasted your time.  And man, this game has to have the most counter-intuitive wall jump (by modern standards) I've ever seen.  Half the time I manage it, it feels like pure luck even when I keep performing the same timed button commands.

I'm hoping to get this game knocked out by tomorrow night, and then finally I'll at least be able to say I finished this game.

[DAaaMan64]

I just beat the game.  Details to come later, after some sleep.

[Chozo Ghost]

Just as an aside, with Other M coming out on Tuesday I decided to finally grit my teeth and try once again (seriously, this must be my 5th or 6th time now) to get through Super Metroid and finally beat it before that game comes out.  I've never managed it before, as I usually quit around the point in the game where you get the Gravity Suit, just before dealing with Meridia.  That's about the point where I get bored or frustrated and shut the game off to go on to something else.  That's where I am about now, in fact, as I'm slogging my way through Meridia now.  While having the CC Pro this time and fine-tuning the control layout to somewhat match Zero Mission has greatly helped make the game more enjoyable than it's been on previous attempts, I still don't get the whole "best game EVAR!" hype this game has acquired.  Especially frustrating is that this game has a nasty habit of putting power-ups beyond two layers of upgrades, but you can only see one at first.  So you'll see a spot where you can tell you need a certain upgrade later (like the speed boots), you come all the way back with that upgrade...and then you find out the developers decided to be jerks and added grapple points or water in the way just to laugh at you and make sure you know you wasted your time.  And man, this game has to have the most counter-intuitive wall jump (by modern standards) I've ever seen.  Half the time I manage it, it feels like pure luck even when I keep performing the same timed button commands.

I'm hoping to get this game knocked out by tomorrow night, and then finally I'll at least be able to say I finished this game.

The wall jump is about skill and timing. It doesn't do it for you the way modern games do. If you are unfamiliar with how old school games work then I'm not surprised you don't like it, because you're judging it through the lens of a modern gamer.

[broodwars]

The wall jump is about skill and timing. It doesn't do it for you the way modern games do. If you are unfamiliar with how old school games work then I'm not surprised you don't like it, because you're judging it through the lens of a modern gamer.

Like I said, I know how to execute the move (twirl-jump into a wall, let go of the D-pad, and then hit the D-pad in the opposite direction and hit the jump button): it just doesn't work most of the time I do it.

I'm currently extremely frustrated marching back and forth through Maridia.  It's pretty obvious why this is usually where I stop playing, because I seem to be completely stuck and there is  indication what you are supposed to do now.  Every passage that heads towards the boss room is blocked off by purple doors I can't open, and I've scoured every room on my map with the X-ray visor.  So far, as usual I can understand why this game was so beloved in its time.  But I still can't understand why this game is so beloved now, to the point where every new Metroid game that comes out gets compared to it.