Topic: WiiWare games should be released on disc. (Digital Distribution Discussion)

[Mop it up]

I’m probably going to be ridiculed for this but oh well.

Games released on WiiWare should also at some point be released on disc and sold in retail stores. Yes, it’s true, the main reason I think this is because I don’t like to pay for digitally distributed media. Although I know I’m not the only one with that mindset, most people aren’t bothered by that. However, I remember hearing a statistic that only about half of all Wii owners have it connected to the Internet. I don’t know if that statistic was or still is true, but if it is, that’s 25 million Wii owners worldwide who don’t have access to WiiWare games.

They could work well if offered as compilations and sold at the same price as every game combined. If all of the Strong Bad game episodes were being sold on disc for $50, I might be interested in that. Hudson could also release all of their WiiWare titles onto a single disc. I know that many WiiWare games are by different developers, but does that mean they couldn’t be compiled onto one disc by a publisher? Since the games are being sold as a compilation, they aren’t really competing with one another.

There are certain games which could probably be released as stand-alone titles at budget prices, even if they cost a little more than the download. I would pay $15 for Dr. Mario Online if it were available on disc. If they released Mega Man 9 on disc (including all downloadable content) for $20, I’d be all over that.

This does cause some problems I’m sure, though I don’t know what those all might be. One would probably be shelf space, which is already kind of cluttered by all of the regular retail-only games. And so I ask the lot of you, what do you think? Would it be feasible to release certain WiiWare games on disc?

[NWR_pap64]

This will never happen. Nintendo believes in WiiWare too much to release games on disc. They want people to get online, buy points and download games. They have spent a lot of money trying to bring the service of up snuff, and they would rather spend millions convincing people like you that downloading WiiWare is worth it than releasing games on disc.

Sorry for my blunt honesty, but I just don't see this happening, even if the stats are against Nintendo.

[Mop it up]

*sigh*
You are probably right, though I can dream can't I?
Even after WiiWare is fully established, you don't think they will ever at any point in the future offer games as both downloads and on disc?

If another company wanted to release their WiiWare games on disc, could Nintendo prevent them from doing so?

[NWR_pap64]

*sigh*
You are probably right, though I can dream can't I?
Even after WiiWare is fully established, you don't think they will ever at any point in the future offer games as both downloads and on disc?

If another company wanted to release their WiiWare games on disc, could Nintendo prevent them from doing so?

I think Nintendo might release a compilation of their own games, but again they want the service to blossom so its likely that they will forever remain WiiWare games.

As for third parties that's not a problem. Simply because you are a WiiWare developer it doesn't mean you can't release your game elsewhere. Telltale Games has the Strong Bad games up for sale on the PC and you can buy all 5 episodes on disc and play it on your PC. World of Goo is also available on PC, and Eternity's Child is also a PC game that will come to WiiWare.

I think that while Nintendo wants all of their games to be WiiWare exclusive they can't force developers to release their games elsewhere.

[KDR_11k]

Wait, there's a SBCG4AP disc? I thought that was only available through Steam and such on the PC?

[NWR_pap64]

Wait, there's a SBCG4AP disc? I thought that was only available through Steam and such on the PC?

Well, if I am not mistaken when all of the episodes are available you can order them all and TellTale Games will send you the disc with the episodes. It comes at a discount price.

[Mikintosh]

Sad to say, but most of the people who can't afford Internet for their Wii console probably don't have enough money to buy many games, anyway. And since there hasn't been a breakout hit amongst the WiiWare games a la Geometry Wars (tho I guess World of Goo is doing very well), there's not much call for these publishers to put money into packaging for retail distribution when the whole point of digital downloads was so they didn't have to do that.

[Mop it up]

The only one of Nintendo's games which I am interested in is Dr. Mario Online, so I don't really care if they don't release their own games on disc. I'm still holding out hope that some other companies will give it a try sometime.

Sad to say, but most of the people who can't afford Internet for their Wii console probably don't have enough money to buy many games, anyway.

I doubt the only reason people haven't connected their system to the Internet is because they can't afford to. Not everyone has a wireless router, and those who don't probably don't have their system in a good position to connect it with an Ethernet cable. Some people are lazy and wouldn't want to bother with acquiring the necessary equipment just to buy a couple of download games.

Wii game discs are dirt cheap to manufacture, and if companies have already recouped their development costs through WiiWare sales then there's not much financial risk involved in releasing them on disc. It could potentially boost the sales of games which have slowed. We won't know for sure if it's worth it unless some company actually tries it.

[KDR_11k]

Just for reference, Hudson's entire WiiWare catalog in a compilation would cost 79$ if you priced it at the combined cost of all 10 contained games.

Sad to say, but most of the people who can't afford Internet for their Wii console probably don't have enough money to buy many games, anyway. And since there hasn't been a breakout hit amongst the WiiWare games a la Geometry Wars (tho I guess World of Goo is doing very well), there's not much call for these publishers to put money into packaging for retail distribution when the whole point of digital downloads was so they didn't have to do that.

I don't think it's a pure cost thing, they just don't care enough.

[Mikintosh]

Just for reference, Hudson's entire WiiWare catalog in a compilation would cost 79$ if you priced it at the combined cost of all 10 contained games.

Sad to say, but most of the people who can't afford Internet for their Wii console probably don't have enough money to buy many games, anyway. And since there hasn't been a breakout hit amongst the WiiWare games a la Geometry Wars (tho I guess World of Goo is doing very well), there's not much call for these publishers to put money into packaging for retail distribution when the whole point of digital downloads was so they didn't have to do that.

I don't think it's a pure cost thing, they just don't care enough.

Well, I'd tend to think they'd base these things more on business decisions rather than emotional ones, since they are a business...

[KDR_11k]

Well, I'd tend to think they'd base these things more on business decisions rather than emotional ones, since they are a business...

I meant the people who own the Wiis.

[Mikintosh]

Well, I'd tend to think they'd base these things more on business decisions rather than emotional ones, since they are a business...

I meant the people who own the Wiis.

Ah, sorry. Though I dunno, if they were only putting one game on a disc, would they be able to justify having "Dr. Mario" on the shelves next to all the other games? I mean, all the shovelware makes everything of quality look like a bargain, but it just doesn't seem like a market model that next-gen consumers would get behind. Man, I sound like a marketing exec...

[Flames_of_chaos]

Wait, there's a SBCG4AP disc? I thought that was only available through Steam and such on the PC?

Well, if I am not mistaken when all of the episodes are available you can order them all and TellTale Games will send you the disc with the episodes. It comes at a discount price.

For Wii no, for PC yes.

----------
Also Nintendo has always stated that they wanted their WiiWare products to be separate from retail. But it doesn't stop 3rd parties to put up a compilation or something. There is one retail game that exists on WiiWare, TV Show King Party the only difference is the retail version is 20 dollars more expensive (MSRP) and they added some minor features, so it was a quick and dirty WiiWare to retail that's more expensive. Another game from Gameloft, Brain Challenge for the DS was ported to XBLA..... then to WiiWare......and then finally to PSN.

[Morari]

The only one of Nintendo's games which I am interested in is Dr. Mario Online, so I don't really care if they don't release their own games on disc. I'm still holding out hope that some other companies will give it a try sometime.

Sad to say, but most of the people who can't afford Internet for their Wii console probably don't have enough money to buy many games, anyway.

I doubt the only reason people haven't connected their system to the Internet is because they can't afford to. Not everyone has a wireless router, and those who don't probably don't have their system in a good position to connect it with an Ethernet cable. Some people are lazy and wouldn't want to bother with acquiring the necessary equipment just to buy a couple of download games.

Some people are quite simply still out of range for any kind of broadband as well. Why should those telecom/cable monopolies want to do anything to expand what should be a public utility when they don't have to? Avarice is the root of all evil.

[Smash_Brother]

"Best of WiiWare" compilation discs should be sold in retail stores.

"Like these games? Find more like them in the Wii Shop Channel right now!"

That'd be the best thing in the world for WiiWare.

[Pale]

They can release them on discs if they want, but I'll still be downloading them.

I want to make a thread in which I state that all retail games should also be released as digital downloads. =P

[Ian Sane]

Wasn't there an Xbox Live Arcade "Best of" disc released at some point?  Xbox Live Arcade Unplugged I think it was.  I think it pretty much existed to provide the option to buy Geometry Wars in a disc format.  I don't see why the same couldn't be done for WiiWare.

But the Xbox disc was published by Microsoft and featured games from multiple developers.  Nintendo doesn't seem to, well, care enough to do the same thing.  With Nintendo third party games are almost seen as competition.  They don't seem to specifically interact with third parties like MS and Sony do.  A true "Best of" WiiWare disc needs Nintendo involved and they have to bring multiple developers together on one disc.  They won't so we'll never get this.  It's too bad because I wouldn't mind that.  I have an inherent distrust of download-only content.  If I had a physical disc I could play the game hypothetically forever, even if Nintendo has disabled their online service.

[Morari]

I have an inherent distrust of download-only content.  If I had a physical disc I could play the game hypothetically forever, even if Nintendo has disabled their online service.

Bingo! This is exactly why digital distribution will never replace physical mediums entirely. Of course, there are a lot of stupid people out there...

[KDR_11k]

I think Nintendo is just opposed to compilations since they learned you make more money by selling games individually.

As for Nintendo disabling their online service, as long as you've got the stuff downloaded that doesn't matter (WiiWare doesn't require any remote authentication)

[Smash_Brother]

As for Nintendo disabling their online service, as long as you've got the stuff downloaded that doesn't matter (WiiWare doesn't require any remote authentication)

Yeah, Wiiware /= Steam.

The game downloaded onto a Wii will be there forever.

[Pale]

I honestly feel sorry for people that are so genuinely paranoid about their possessions that they refuse to buy digital things because of their extremely flimsy concept of owning something "forever."

As I said in my blog post from some time ago, the benefits of digital distribution FAR outweigh this vague thought of possibly losing your content.  To reiterate the biggest benefit in my mind, you don't have to collect ANYTHING!  Digital distribution completely removes the concept of rarity which lowers the stress for all parties involved.

On top of that, it's also cost effective for everyone and its much more convenient.  As I said in the blog post... In my head I have every game on Virtual Console, WiiWare, Live Arcade, and PSN in my collection right now.  I just haven't given everyone my money quite yet.  That's an incredibly powerful position for the player to be in.

And, short of all of that, if you are concerned about the environment at all, how much benefit do you think it would have if we got to a future where there was no such thing as physical games at all?  If you think about the waste of the packaging, the fuel of the shipping, and the consumption of the factories... it's astronomical.


So honestly... am I the stupid one now?  Or is it the people that are totally paranoid that they aren't going to be able to play their games 70 years from now on their death bed?

[TJ Spyke]

Wasn't there an Xbox Live Arcade "Best of" disc released at some point?  Xbox Live Arcade Unplugged I think it was.  I think it pretty much existed to provide the option to buy Geometry Wars in a disc format.  I don't see why the same couldn't be done for WiiWare.

Yep, "Xbox Live Arcade Uplugged, Vol. 1". Guess it must have bombed because no Vol. 2 has been released. They did make another compilation of Xbox Live Arcade games that is bundled with the Xbox 360 Arcade. This is a much better compilation and includes Pac-Man Championship Edition, Feeding Frenzy, Luxor 2, Boom Boom Rocket, and  Uno.

Pale, I don't think downloads offer many benefits. It's more cost effective to the publisher, but so far that costs have NOT been passed on to us consumers. I refuse to pay the same amount to download a game that it would cost to get the physical game. With the physical game I get an instruction booklet, a real sense of ownership, a quick and easy way to let a friend play the game by borrowing it. Maybe if the digital version is like $10 cheaper, then I would agree with you (since $10 is about what retailers take from the game anyways).

As for environmental, the only think I throw out is the plastic wrapper. I keep everything else and don't trade in games anymore.

[Ian Sane]

As for Nintendo disabling their online service, as long as you've got the stuff downloaded that doesn't matter (WiiWare doesn't require any remote authentication)

True but what if my Wii breaks years from now?  I could save my downloaded games to SD Card but even then what if I lose that?  The thing that's so great about physical media is that I can replace everything.  If my Gamecube breaks I can find a used one.  If my copy of Metroid Prime breaks I can find a used one.  I lose everything in a fire?  I might not be able to replace Mega Man 9 because Capcom may not have it available in any format and since no physical copy exists in the wild my only option for replacing it is piracy.

Bingo! This is exactly why digital distribution will never replace physical mediums entirely. Of course, there are a lot of stupid people out there..

I used to think this but I think it really only applies to our lifetime.  There are people less than ten years younger than me don't own any music albums.  Everything is downloaded.  They have no connection to the physical media.  While I don't think it's going to happen for sure I think there is a possibility that digital distribution will completely replace physical mediums as we see generations completely raised in a digital age.  My co-worker's daughter and her friends never even talk on a phone.  They exclusively text.  Everyone has their million friends on Facebook they've never met.  People are becoming more and more attached to an artificial digital world.  I don't relate because I'm old enough to remember no internet, no cellphones and PCs being a huge luxury item.

People still ride horses but no one does it for anything but recreation.  Everyone on Earth has been raised in the automobile age and, aside from enthusiasts, has no connection to horses.  While in a different time EVERYONE had that connection because that was all there was for transportation.  I could see physical media becoming like that where it's for enthusiasts only and the rest of the world just uses digital distribution because it's all they've ever known.

[Pale]

TJ, how can you say their are no benefits when I just outlined some? Are you disagreeing?  As for price, WiiWare, VC, Live Arcade, and PSN games all definitely pass some savings on to the customer.  Full retail games haven't had enough examples to make any statement about them.

I'm not kidding myself though, games will always be priced at what the parties involve think they can get for them.  But it is a fact that they require less money to be profitable when they are digitally distributed only.


And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the possibility of losing your data isn't a problem.  I just think its much less of a problem than you all make it out to be.

Firstly, I'm buying these games with a trust that these services will be continued on to future consoles.  Also, I expect Nintendo to solve the tying them to a console thing next gen as well, so that problem would go away as well.

Obviously I could be wrong about these assumptions and I could get burned... but because of the no need to collect thing I mentioned before, I can also assume that even if I am burned I will have played most of the games a significant amount anyway.  I wouldn't be THAT upset.


And just one last random thing, if you don't throw your games out they can still be considered waste, because they will get thrown out eventually AND they took energy to create.  But keeping them is definitely a great step towards minimizing the effect.

[Ian Sane]

And just one last random thing, if you don't throw your games out they can still be considered waste, because they will get thrown out eventually AND they took energy to create.  But keeping them is definitely a great step towards minimizing the effect.

If you're going to take to that level then why make anything that doesn't break down in a few days?  What do environmentalists think of archaelogical finds?  Are the ancient Egyptians bad because their stuff has last for so long?  I only consider something wasteful if it is specifically meant to be disposable but isn't biodegradable or recyclable.  So yeah the packaging my chocolate bar comes in isn't so great but with a videogame I want that case I store my game in to not rot away on me in my lifetime.  If it's not designed to be garbage then I think it should be made to last.