Topic: WiiWare games should be released on disc. (Digital Distribution Discussion)

[TJ Spyke]

Are you sure Phoenix Games is unlicensed? The box arts shown on their website clearly have the regular logos on them which would be trademark infringement. To me it looks more like SCEE doesn't have SCEA's anti-shovelware policies.

I didn't say they were un-licensed, just that Sony can't say no. Any company that wants to release a video game in Europe can, the console manufacturers can refuse to license them.

I don't live in Europe (I live in the United States, New York to be exact), and I don't exactly know why the European Union has such strict laws. It's the same stupid reason Microsoft keeps getting sued just for including Windows and Windows Media Player with PC's (never mind that users can just remove these if they want, and that they don't HAVE to use Internet Explorer). They seem to think it's wrong for a company to control what is released on their system.
AFAIK the US actually sued MS for that too, the US courts just gave them a "punishment" that was a total joke. The issue is that MS is an OS monopoly and used that to gain a monopoly position in the media player and web browser markets too. Yes, users can decide to pick something else but that takes effort over simply staying with the default and most people simply don't know that IE is a total pile of garbage that has been holding the internet back for years. It takes an informed choice to go with the competition, it merely requires lazyness to stay with MS. Thus MS has an automatic advantage by being able to dictate the default option using their OS monopoly. Antitrust laws ban that practice in the US and EU.

The EU has sued Microsoft many, many times. Microsoft doesn't have a monopoly, but the EU seems to think so. I don't use IE anymore, but it is not garbage. No one is forcing computer manufacturers from bundling a different OS or Internet browser. The EU is a complete joke and should not have any legal authority.

[Smash_Brother]

1. Personal preference. I like to have my television surrounded by systems, it makes it much more gamey.
2. Personal problem. I have seven systems connected to my television without using a switchbox.
3. People are lazy. Personally I hate convenience, it just makes everyone lazy and impatient. If humans were truly intelligent beings, they'd invent machines which do things less effectively.

You are most certainly the exception and far from the rule, meaning I would be hesitant to use your situation as a basis for arguing in favor of everything having to be on retail.

Furthermore, I'm most certain that you're going to see more and more companies move to the downloadable model.

Why is Sony experimenting with Patapon 2 as a download ticket? Because this means the game cannot be sold back to Gamestop and resold as a used game 15 more times.

Look at it this way: Nintendo hates piracy and will go through great lengths to shut it down, even so far as to find the base of operations of a piracy outfit.

They hate piracy because it cuts into sales. However, piracy is just a whisper on the SCREAM that is Gamestop. How many billions of dollars in sales has Gamestop cost game publishers?

Considering that the entire business model of Gamestop revolves around selling used games instead of new games, I think it's safe to say that every game publisher in the world would be happy as all hell to see Gamestop out of the picture.

And it's only getting worse, since TRU and other retailers have recently announced that they too will be reselling used games.

The push to digitial distribution is going to come harder and harder as more retailers cut into the profits of publishers, just as many musicians were happy to put their MP3s up on iTunes instead of letting the record companies take 98% of the profit on every CD sale.

And FYI, iTunes is the 2nd largest retailer of music in the US, just behind Wal-Mart (who they're still gaining on).

With publishers having EVERY incentive to move to DD, I think it'd be foolish to expect the future to go anywhere but there. It'll take some time, but I see it as inevitable.

The music industry already did it and plenty of game dev houses make their living publisher-free via DD and have never seen a reason to go to retail. Why would they start now?

[Mop it up]

Unfortunately digital distribution is inevitable, and it's yet another sad reflection on the age of technology. I can only hope it doesn't happen within my lifetime, or at least the portion of my life when I actually care.

I also doubt the sale of used games hurts the industry as much as some people say, given that the money people get from selling their games often goes towards buying new games. But I guess we'll never know until physical copies are out of the equation.

[Smash_Brother]

Unfortunately digital distribution is inevitable, and it's yet another sad reflection on the age of technology. I can only hope it doesn't happen within my lifetime, or at least the portion of my life when I actually care.

I also doubt the sale of used games hurts the industry as much as some people say, given that the money people get from selling their games often goes towards buying new games. But I guess we'll never know until physical copies are out of the equation.

I don't think it'll be as bad as it seems. The thing to remember here is that the industry is and always will be market driven, meaning that even as download services progress, the concerns that have been voiced here will be reiterated many times over by consumers and no doubt will be addressed.

Steam already does an excellent job of ensuring that players "own" their games and can even give/resell them to another person if they like. Also, if Steam were to ever "go away", I assume they'd have some means of releasing all games from the DRM that currently affects them.

As for used games, it's hard to say, but the thing you have to remember is that Gamestop tends to charge only $5-10 less for a used game in many cases, especially with popular games. Most gamers would've probably paid that extra if the used copy wasn't available to them but opt for the used copy to save a few bucks. That's definitely a lost sale.

[Mop it up]

I want physical copies. I want to display my boxes, cases, and games on shelves. I'm not sure how many collectors are out there in the world but I can tell you every single one of them are not happy about digital distribution.

Perhaps the "special edition" of download games would be a physical copy for us collectors?

[Smash_Brother]

I could see a situation where collectors can purchase content via DD and pay for the disc+box in addition to be mailed to them for an extra fee, and all still cheaper than what a normal retail copy would cost, heh.

In fact, I like that idea a lot...

[KDR_11k]

The EU has sued Microsoft many, many times. Microsoft doesn't have a monopoly, but the EU seems to think so. I don't use IE anymore, but it is not garbage. No one is forcing computer manufacturers from bundling a different OS or Internet browser. The EU is a complete joke and should not have any legal authority.

lolwut? You realize monopolies don't have the insane standard "absolutely no competition" because noone would ever hit that?

just as many musicians were happy to put their MP3s up on iTunes instead of letting the record companies take 98% of the profit on every CD sale.

Hahaha, they didn't read their contracts then because the label gets the same cut even when it does absolutely nothing because the musicians sign their rights over to the label, labels even sued their own musicians for putting up free songs on their own websites. You think you can screw Mephistopheles on his own contract?

I want physical copies. I want to display my boxes, cases, and games on shelves. I'm not sure how many collectors are out there in the world but I can tell you every single one of them are not happy about digital distribution.

I collect boxes too but now I'm running out of space to put them into. Plus I'm too lazy to dig the games out of these piles and insert the discs when I have so many games that only need a click on their icon to be played.

[Morari]

Also, if Steam were to ever "go away", I assume they'd have some means of releasing all games from the DRM that currently affects them.

They have the means, as does any other developer. The question is, would they actually do it if it comes down to that? I'd be willing to bet that the likelihood is rather low. Unless Valve simply decides to stop using Steam, the only other scenario is them going out of business. If a company is going under/being bought out/etc, working to NOT make money will be the last thing on their minds.

[Mop it up]

I could see a situation where collectors can purchase content via DD and pay for the disc+box in addition to be mailed to them for an extra fee, and all still cheaper than what a normal retail copy would cost, heh.

That's not a bad idea, but I doubt it would be less than current retail games if for no other reason than companies would figure that if people were set on getting a physical copy, they'd pay a premium price for it.

That still eliminates the need for retail stores though. I still want to shop for games too.

[Stratos]

That still eliminates the need for retail stores though. I still want to shop for games too.

A virtual Amazon store! You could travel through it and pull items off the shelves and look at them. You can look at preview pages of a book online, why not look at a virtual back of the box?

[Mop it up]

It doesn't matter how you dress up an online store, that still isn't shopping! If you order something online and call yourself a shopper, that would be like buying a pound of ground beef and calling yourself a hunter. You get the reward without the fun part.