Topic: Gamecube Revisited

[UltimatePartyBear]

There is so much untruth about the Mario Kart series in this thread that I don't even know where to begin debunking it.  HOWEVER, this thread is about revisiting the GameCube.

Wind Waker is worth beating no matter how much you hate the Triforce hunt.  Do whatever you have to do to get past that part.  Listen to podcasts while you do it.  Pay a neighbor's kid to do it for you.  Do something!

I was pretty far into Metroid Prime 2 when I got stuck.  Between you and Khush, I'm being strongly tempted to finally get back to it.

[TJ Spyke]

DD is a dumbed down version and is the red-headed step child. The only thing cool about it is the LAN play that Nintendo seems to have forgotten.

The only negative about Double Dash are the controls can be hard to go back to after playing Mario Kart DS. The game requires more strategy (thanks to the partners), features better levels than its predecessors, the the character specific items was great.

As for Block Fort, it would only be good with lots of players. With 4 players it can be boring, with 2 or 3 it is worthless because the match will go on forever since the level is so large that you can avoid your opponents as long as you want to. It can be more fun with lots of players and thus more to do.

[bustin98]

I have yet to finish MP2, mainly because I got lost with all the switching back and forth between the two worlds. I also seem to suffer from a form of OCD where I dislike running through a game with less than full health. Running through the dark world is a constant drain and it drove me crazy.

The level design of DD is simplistic with little depth. The strategy of the two player kart does not overcome this limitation, IMO. A few maps in DD are fun, but did not match the satisfaction of mastering the tracks in MK64.

Block Fort does make for a long game with 2 players though.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

The general shape/theme of the Prime 2 world is different; Metroid Prime was an interconnected blob of worlds, where Prime 2 is a hub world that branches to 3 distinct corners of the world.  You won't find a repeat of fire/ice/forest world (which is good cuz it presents completely new areas), but the initial 25% of the game is a dry desert environment (with dry music), so many were put off by its feel in the beginning.  It's like the game starts off with the Phazon Mines first and no explosive beginning.  My interest in Prime 1's atmosphere took a nose dive when I had to play Phazon Mines, but Prime 2 is the opposite, putting the dry stuff in the beginning and have the cool stuff steadily ramp up as you progress.

Core platforming mechanics are the same (you'll see all kinds of ledges and try to jump on everything, looking for things to grapple, blow up, etc).  But the additions to the Morph Ball (etc.) open new doors of mindfuck.  Prime 2 is the undisputed king of Nintendo 3D action-adventure puzzle design, thanks to the Morph Ball (try to get 100% items).  Prime 3's Morph Ball usage is a disappointing step down, since the Wii Remote shooting controls took the spotlight.

Plus, some regular enemies are scary on a regular basis if you have surround sound, unlike all other 3D Nintendo enemies to this day.

Don't ever get the notion that action-adventures are all supposed to by gentle fairy-boy cakewalks that are supposed to please the player with trivial rewards every minute like Zelda.  Samus has a tough job, see that she gets through it.  (the best puzzles are saved for the latter 33% of the game)

[Ian Sane]

Nintendo has a reputation for making their sequels count (or at least they did at the time).  They don't just crank out something cookie cutter.  But I think the pressure to meet that reputation hurt them on the Cube.  They probably felt they couldn't just release "More Super Mario 64" or "More Mario Kart 64".  They had to make those sequels stand out.  The problem is that the N64 benefitted so much from transitioning to 3D.  The Gamecube wasn't such a big jump and improvements and new ideas were not so obvious.  It was EASY for them to make Mario Kart 64 stand out.  "Hey we've got four controller slots now.  Let's make four player Mario Kart!  And we can use polygons too so the tracks don't have to all be flat."

But on the Cube I feel that it was harder for them to really come up with ideas to make stand-out sequels.  But they tried so we got F.L.U.D.D and two racers per kart.  They were definitely new ideas they just weren't really that great of ideas.  In Mario's case they next came up with the planets idea and that worked out a whole lot better.

I don't think it's at all a coincedence that my favourite Gamecube first party games were titles where there was no real blueprint to follow.  Metroid Prime, Pikmin, and Four Swords Adventures were all new ideas (Four Swords was a new idea on the GBA but it's the same time frame so I count it).  There was no N64 equivalent to compare to and no pressure to "top" a sequel.  This is why I emphasize new IPs and new games.  Sequels get stale and while I enjoy them there needs to be original titles as well.  And they have to be BIG original titles made by Nintendo's top teams like the examples I gave.  New games from the B teams aren't the same thing.

Nintendo really lost it with the "Who are you?" campaign.  They started thinking that what made Nintendo special was their franchises.  WRONG!  Totally wrong!  That's when the Cube became a lot less interesting.  Metroid Prime wasn't special just because it was Metroid.  The fact that it brought Metroid into 3D certainly helped but the REAL reason it was special is because it was new and different and no existing game played like it and realistically STILL nothing plays like it except its own sequels.  Metroid Prime 3 is great but isn't as special as the first game just because it's not a new concept anymore.  This is why when people point out that Nintendo has given us Zelda, Mario and Metroid on the Wii as proof that Nintendo is not neglected core gamers I don't buy it.  Where is the Wii's Metroid Prime or Pikmin?  Metroid Prime 3 and Pikmin 3 aren't it.  They're welcome games to have but what we really need is the equivalent of those games on the Wii.  Something that's really new and different.  Though unfortunately I think the Wii ____ series is the Wii's Metroid Prime.

[Plugabugz]

Nintendo tends to come up on better ideas when they make games based around a technical achievement. Mario Galaxy for it's camera, Pikmin for several characters on screen at once, and (i reckon) and F-Zero GX for high speed action.

But those were all software based achievements.

I won't comment on Nintendo's marketing because pre-Wii, in europe, it didn't exist.

[oohhboy]

You taking your drugs Ningurl? Thats no fun.

Star Wars: Rouge Leader. Sure it's not as deep of a game as something like Freespace 2, but hell Endor always epic and you always have things to make go BOOM. But don't discount Rebel strike either since it wasn't all bad.

F-Zero GX because you can never go too fast.

Crazy Taxi because you can never go too fast.

[vudu]

Next up on my list of games to finish;
XIII

XIII is awful.  Honestly one of the worst games I've ever played.  I actually had to stop playing is because I just didn't care anymore.  Then again, I felt the same way about Red Steel, so your mileage may vary.

The rest of your list is solid.

[Ian Sane]

XIII is awful.  Honestly one of the worst games I've ever played.  I actually had to stop playing is because I just didn't care anymore.  Then again, I felt the same way about Red Steel, so your mileage may vary.

Hmmm.  There's a common connection between those two games.  I wonder what that would be?

I want to give props to the Gameboy Player.  Easily my favourite Gamecube accessory and since the Wii is backwards compatible it is without a doubt the best reason to own a Cube today.  I seriously neglect my DS entirely because I can't play its games on TV.  I associate many of my favourite GBA games as Gamecube memories because that's how I played them.

[vudu]

XIII is awful.  Honestly one of the worst games I've ever played.  I actually had to stop playing is because I just didn't care anymore.  Then again, I felt the same way about Red Steel, so your mileage may vary.

Hmmm.  There's a common connection between those two games.  I wonder what that would be?

Hard to say.  Maybe Crimm can help.

[BlackNMild2k1]

MP2 Echoes. The Speed Ball Boss. WTF!!!
I thought I was never gonna beat that guy. Took me like 20 tries, getting closer and closer everytime until I finally won.

Battalion Wars. I stuck on the 5th(?) mission. Where you gotta rescue all the prisoners and have to cross at least two bridges. Anybody have a good strategy?
& Why in the hell is the combat buggy so damn floaty? You hit a bump while goin to fast and you doin 360degree turns in mid air. kinda frustrating to drive at times.

and about XIII sucking. I've played it before, but never actually finished the first mission. I was gonna skip it and play TimeSplitters2, but the GC won't read the disc. Looks like one of my boys kids put a pretty bad scratch on the disc. so I can't play that one until I get the disc fixed.

[AV]

XIII is awful.  Honestly one of the worst games I've ever played.  I actually had to stop playing is because I just didn't care anymore.  Then again, I felt the same way about Red Steel, so your mileage may vary.

Hmmm.  There's a common connection between those two games.  I wonder what that would be?

Hard to say.  Maybe Crimm can help.

We didn't start the flamewar !!!

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

MP2 Echoes. The Speed Ball Boss. WTF!!!
I thought I was never gonna beat that guy. Took me like 20 tries, getting closer and closer everytime until I finally won.

Battalion Wars. I stuck on the 5th(?) mission. Where you gotta rescue all the prisoners and have to cross at least two bridges. Anybody have a good strategy?
& Why in the hell is the combat buggy so damn floaty? You hit a bump while goin to fast and you doin 360degree turns in mid air. kinda frustrating to drive at times.

and about XIII sucking. I've played it before, but never actually finished the first mission. I was gonna skip it and play TimeSplitters2, but the GC won't read the disc. Looks like one of my boys kids put a pretty bad scratch on the disc. so I can't play that one until I get the disc fixed.

BWi:  Rescue the prisoners due right of your starting position in a quick sweep.  Then take your expanded force to rescue the prisoners on the mountain that was originally to the left of you.  Take your EVEN BIGGER FORCE and clear the outskirts of the main base without alerting their main force.  Split your battalion into 2 groups, one at the front entrance and the other farther along the broken fortress wall at the end of the spiraling road, getting as close as possible to these entrances without alerting the enemy.  Then charge in, attacking from both sides simulatneously.  Be ready to assign troops to flagpole in the interest of completion time.  Congrats, this was the baby tutorial mission.  All other later missions are more involving and awesome (i get S ranks on all but a couple missions, so much fun, so much thinking).

Whenever you charge into any hotspot, be sure to have a solid idea of what enemies to assign your troops to attack; the map is helpful in this regard.  You want to dish out these orders usually in the first 3 seconds of contact; it's far more crucial to have your units be proactive than you just running around trying to kill things by yourself, otherwise they're just baby ducks following the mommy duck.  The ducks need work!

The buggy is lol.  It's got frictionless balloons for tires.  Its drivability seems like a style choice to match the art/animation of the troops, rather than a user-vehicle.  It's very effective when you don't drive it; I tend to treat it as a highly mobile machine gun (firepower plus speed and armor), supporting my Rifle Grunts.

[Stratos]

MK: DD is definitely the worst Mario kart to date. They should have just upgraded MK64, but they took away something that just changed the game for me. The hop to power slide being one of those things. The rest I can't quite put a finger on, but that game was just missing something that made MK64 & MKDS so special.

Double Dash's partner system allowed for quite a bit of strategy when using and/or planning to use weapons. That, as well as the character-specific weapons, are something that is greatly missed in other installments.

This is what make DD for me. I had a friend who was my permanent DD partner. I was the driver and he was the gunner. We were awesome. You had to work together to pull off the mini turbos, you could swap items on the fly when needed, the gunner had better aim and control since they didn't have to worry about driving, and a good gunner could use the side lunge to steal items, upset opponents and to save your cart from an object with a quick side dodge. Though he sometimes went crazy with the dodging when we were in a tight pack and we would sometimes careen off a nearby ledge, but it was a blast. I loved how Gamecube games like DD, Crystal Chronicles and Four Swords emphasized teamwork and communication.


As for other GC titles to try, I recommend these:
>Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes
>I Ninja, reportedly fun but I've yet to play it.
>The Prince of Persia Sands of Time, Warrior Within and Two Thrones
>If you like Suda 51's work then you could try Killer 7
>The Hobbit was surprisingly a very good platformer with zelda-like combat. Really well done.
>Custom Robo: Battle Revolution
>Skies of Arcadia Legends
>Lord of the Rings: Two Towers + Return of the King
>>>>Pac-Man Vs.!!!!<<<<

[BlackNMild2k1]

This is what make DD for me. I had a friend who was my permanent DD partner. I was the driver and he was the gunner. We were awesome. You had to work together to pull off the mini turbos, you could swap items on the fly when needed, the gunner had better aim and control since they didn't have to worry about driving, and a good gunner could use the side lunge to steal items, upset opponents and to save your cart from an object with a quick side dodge. Though he sometimes went crazy with the dodging when we were in a tight pack and we would sometimes careen off a nearby ledge, but it was a blast. I loved how Gamecube games like DD, Crystal Chronicles and Four Swords emphasized teamwork and communication.


As for other GC titles to try, I recommend these:
>Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes - Beat It
>I Ninja, reportedly fun but I've yet to play it. -  don't own it
>The Prince of Persia Sands of Time, Warrior Within and Two Thrones - Beat the 1st - don't own the second
>If you like Suda 51's work then you could try Killer 7 - own it (weird game)
>The Hobbit was surprisingly a very good platformer with zelda-like combat. Really well done. Don't own it
>Custom Robo: Battle Revolution - played it, but don't own it
>Skies of Arcadia Legends - ~ 1/3 into the game
>Lord of the Rings: Two Towers + Return of the King - beat them both
>>>>Pac-Man Vs.!!!!<<<< - don't own it (but this would make a perfect DS game or WiiWare + DSiWare combo game)

Honestly, I've never played much multi on DD & when I did, it was with someone that isn't all that skilled at video games (the girl whose house I', chillin @). I didn't know the companion mode had so many options. But the time for DD has passed many years ago as my general prejudice annoyance with that game will never allow me to enjoy it now. I've already moved on.

[Mikintosh]

The reason I love MK64 is the same reason I have problems with Double Dash (though I still play both all the time): I don't like constrained tracks because they're not very forgiving, and make the "everyone's throwing items at you" atmosphere seem annoying as opposed to fun. Same reason I don't play the SNES and GBA games either (tho those two are pretty much interconnected).

Anyway, back to Cube, I never even finished the *first* Metroid Prime since I kept getting lost/bored (the lack of anyone to talk to in that game tends to weigh on you); didn't help that my 1051 memory card that held all my saves got fried by my Wii (tho strangely my Melee save survives), and I just had no interest in starting it up again. I like the mechanics tho.

NFL Blitz 2003 FTW !!!!!!!!

I don't care if everything is out of date, It's a fun game ! Something I need to play with rumble its just empty to not have bit hits without rumble.

Word. It's the only football game I've ever enjoyed.

[Stratos]

I have Blitz 2002. Only non-Mario sports game I own (not counting Wii Sports).
I love it. That is how real football should be played.

[Mop it up]

Does NFL Blitz 2003 have any new features over the N64 versions or does it just have a roster update?

[Stratos]

I only played the N64 one at a friends on occasion, but I think they added a season mode for the Gamecube era games.

[EasyCure]

I would normally buy alot of games(mostly on sale) to just collect the good/interesting one but not actually play them.

So I'm not the only one who does this.

Hehe me too! Glad i was finally able to read thru this thread in its entirety. I avoided it at first because i knew i'd end up remembering a ton of games i need to go back and finish, and have the urge to just unplug my computer to keep me from posting about the urge to finish games, and just go and do the damn thing. I'm at work now and its really dead here, so i don't mind reminiscing.. its supposed to be like 80 degrees when i get outta work and instead of being out enjoying the nice weather, i'll probably go home and play me some GC backlog! Thanks guys

I have a few of the same games as you on that list, lets see if i can remember all the stuff i need to finish:

Pikmin 1 (near the end)

XII* (stuck at the last boss fight who can kill you in like 3 shots)

Geist (also on the last boss. I think endure this fight but i just don't land enough hits to get this geezer to die!)

Killer7 (will play from the beginning)

Star Fox Adventures (played for maybe an hour. I wanna see what all the fuss is about)

Star Fox Assault (i've done a quick play thru on normal difficulty, wanna try to get all the medals etc)

DK Jungle Beat (played the first level or 2 with my gf and havent touched it since)

Donkey Konga 1 & 2 (i'm a completionist so i'd like to one day unlock as much as i can)

F-Zero GX (can't finish that freakin story mode! I'm like on the 5th chapter or so)

Mega Man X Command Mission (beat the game but there are extra bosses i haven't beat yet)

Mega Man X Collection (Haven't yet finished X5 or 6, can't remember. Those games get progressively worse, sheeh)

Hmm thats all i can think of for now, i'm sure theres more. Alot of these games i bought second hand only last year, so the reason i haven't started some and finished most is because i'm trying to juggle those with all the Wii games i have yet to finish! I'm sure that if i got some of these titles back when they launched, i would've given them the time they deserved and enjoyed most of them.

*XIII isn't THAT bad. It was interesting enough for me to put it down after borrowing from a friend, then buy it (for like $3) after i returned my friend his copy, then come close to finishing it. It had a decent balance of gun play and stealth, with the stealth sections being more fun than MGS:TS, though much less forgiving. I hope someday to finish the damn game, but who knows.

[Dasmos]

DK Jungle Beat (played the first level or 2 with my gf and havent touched it since)

heresy.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Just so you know, I didn't list my entire backlog, just the games I actually plan on going back to play.

One game in particular that I remember, but only playing long enough to get the the intro, was Rogue Ops.
I think I bought it on sale for about $5-10 along with two other games at the same time.

[EasyCure]

Just so you know, I didn't list my entire backlog, just the games I actually plan on going back to play.

Goddamn!

I know theres a few others i didn't list, since i was going on memory alone. On top of those (and the wii and DS games, and maybe a GBA game or two lol) there's some games i did beat but would LOVE to play again.

Someone mentioned LoZ:FSA before, and it made me want to play that game again because it was one of those titles that exuded pure fun every second. I'd love to give it a second go, but i'd love even more to play it the way its meant to be played. Sadly i don't know anyone with GBAs and the proper cables to do such a thing. Oh well.

[KnowsNothing]

Four Swords with the proper prerequisites secured was a triumph.  It's one of my favorite GC titles of all time.  But for serious still waiting on that DS version.

[EasyCure]

Four Swords with the proper prerequisites secured was a triumph.  It's one of my favorite GC titles of all time.  But for serious still waiting on that DS version.

Unless it was online i still wouldn't ever get the full experience, and even then i don't think it being online would be the same has having three of your friends in the same room.