Topic: ♥ Loyalty ♥

[D_Average]

Anyone who's expecting to have a personal relationship with a multi-billion dollar international company is setting themselves up for fail.

Not so.  I DO have a "personal relationship" with Nintendo.  I invited them into my home in 1985 and ever since then, they've spoken to me through their turtle shells and question marks.  Ask them, and you shall indeed receive those trips to Nintendo HQ's.

[KDR_11k]

Dude this **** is ridonkulous.

Anyone that posts on a Nintendo forum is loyal to the brand.

Or interested in word of mouth feedback on the games available for a system they own.

[UncleBob]

Anyone who's expecting to have a personal relationship with a multi-billion dollar international company is setting themselves up for fail.

Not so.  I DO have a "personal relationship" with Nintendo.  I invited them into my home in 1985 and ever since then, they've spoken to me through their turtle shells and question marks.  Ask them, and you shall indeed receive those trips to Nintendo HQ's.

I *have* asked - and was turned down. :p

[EasyCure]

Anyone who's expecting to have a personal relationship with a multi-billion dollar international company is setting themselves up for fail.

Not so.  I DO have a "personal relationship" with Nintendo.  I invited them into my home in 1985 and ever since then, they've spoken to me through their turtle shells and question marks.  Ask them, and you shall indeed receive those trips to Nintendo HQ's.

I *have* asked - and was turned down. :p

Its true, Nintendo is even on a first name basis with Richard

[UncleBob]

Anyone who's expecting to have a personal relationship with a multi-billion dollar international company is setting themselves up for fail.

Not so.  I DO have a "personal relationship" with Nintendo.  I invited them into my home in 1985 and ever since then, they've spoken to me through their turtle shells and question marks.  Ask them, and you shall indeed receive those trips to Nintendo HQ's.

I *have* asked - and was turned down. :p

Its true, Nintendo is even on a first name basis with Richard

True.  They even have a picture of my foot floating around their offices.

[EasyCure]

Anyone who's expecting to have a personal relationship with a multi-billion dollar international company is setting themselves up for fail.

Not so.  I DO have a "personal relationship" with Nintendo.  I invited them into my home in 1985 and ever since then, they've spoken to me through their turtle shells and question marks.  Ask them, and you shall indeed receive those trips to Nintendo HQ's.

I *have* asked - and was turned down. :p

Its true, Nintendo is even on a first name basis with Richard

True.  They even have a picture of my moist man-nipple floating around their offices.

[UncleBob]

Anyone who's expecting to have a personal relationship with a multi-billion dollar international company is setting themselves up for fail.

Not so.  I DO have a "personal relationship" with Nintendo.  I invited them into my home in 1985 and ever since then, they've spoken to me through their turtle shells and question marks.  Ask them, and you shall indeed receive those trips to Nintendo HQ's.

I *have* asked - and was turned down. :p

Its true, Nintendo is even on a first name basis with Richard

True.  They even have a picture of my moist man-nipple floating around their offices.

Well, who doesn't have that?

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

You can hold true to MY ASS

[Mop it up]

The best thing to do with a SpamBot is just report it without posting. That way once its post is deleted, the topic will return to the depths of the forum.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

That absolutely does not quench my thirst.

[Flames_of_chaos]

Sorry to spoil your LULZ bash party pro.

[BranDonk Kong]

*bump*

[Mop it up]

Stop it.

[Ymeegod]

Well anyway back to the main topic.

My gripe with Big N is the support.  It not like they don't have the money to invest into more development teams (think they netted 2.8 billion last year alone) and hardware.  The WII is way underpowered from what it should have been (hell if you recall the inital plan was calling for Hollywood graphics hense the codeword for the chipset).  Less powerfully chipset did lower production costs but Big N could have gone with the same route as MS or Sony and sell the console at a loss and making it up with software.  I don't expect them to come out with state-of-the-art equipment but they should have made it powerful enough to compete with the existing 360 which was already out for one year.  Now developers can't even port games over the the WII which spending Extra to get it working on the system if they can even.  So in the end gamers lose out and either had to buy another console or miss out alot of great games.  Strike 1. 

Same with software, I don't fault them for targeting this new market of gamers but Big N still has a HUGE warchest (6 billion or so now) so why can't they invest some of that money.  The WII suffers the most it's poor selection of games enough though there's 1000+ titles now.  What I believe Big N should do is focus some of it's millions to genes that the WII lacks, namely RPGs, Action, and Strategy.  They don't have to develope the games themselves but maybe help with the developement costs, ads, ect for the 3rd parties that target this area.  I still can't believe the lack of strategy games on the WII--a console with a pointer finally and yet the 360 still getting them?  As for RPG's, nintendo hasn't done Sh!T in this area for a decade and it continues.  Yeah, they patched up with Square but so far FFCC is an utter joke and Big N doesn't even have Western developers at all?  And for Action games, they do have a few but they haven't sold all that well I think Big N should do more to market these games.  it wouldn't be to hard to throw around a few demo disks or even a channel like they said they were going to do to get most of these games out to the casual gamer.  Mad World is a great example of this.  Sad it didn't sell well.  Strike 2

Internet, damn it still pisses me off after all these years that Big N refuses the whole modern day of gaming and it's not because of costs neither.  The friends list code and all that junk feels like two steps back, Big N should have just copy MS with Live (hell MS copied it anyhow so why not).  How many more year before I get my dream game.  Mario Kart with mod kit--designing your our tracks, carts, characters and showing them online.  I'll give my left testie for that.   Already sold my right.

So really I just dislike them for pinching pennies when they have BILLIONS.  Throw that money back into my HOBBY.

 

[Mop it up]

Nintendo have always been conservative and probably viewed the Wii as a bit of a gamble. They didn't want to invest too much money into its development in the off chance that it failed. Now that they've regained the number-one position and know that their strategy works then perhaps we'll see them invest more into their next system.

That's what I'd hope for anyway, though knowing Nintendo as I do I'm not expecting much.

[Deguello]

My gripe with Big N is the support.  It not like they don't have the money to invest into more development teams (think they netted 2.8 billion last year alone) and hardware.

Actually they made about $5.7 billion last year.

The WII is way underpowered from what it should have been (hell if you recall the inital plan was calling for Hollywood graphics hense the codeword for the chipset).  Less powerfully chipset did lower production costs but Big N could have gone with the same route as MS or Sony and sell the console at a loss and making it up with software.

And that's working so well for them, isn't it?  (Hint, no it's not)

Same with software, I don't fault them for targeting this new market of gamers but Big N still has a HUGE warchest (6 billion or so now) so why can't they invest some of that money.

Actually if you are counting their total profits, since 1998, they've squirreled away about $20-$21 billion in profit.

As for RPG's, nintendo hasn't done Sh!T in this area for a decade and it continues.

Uhhh, Nintendo got Dragon Quest X.  That's major at least for Japan.  And snagged the next Tales release, just because they are the market leader.  But sure they don't have all those games Microsoft doled out moneyhats for Like Star Ocean and Lost Odyssey and whatnot, but most of those games didn't sell well either.  It's not Nintendo's fault third parties want a bribe more than acting in their own self-interest and making games for the market leader.  How are you supposed to reason with a company that would rather choose death than to make Wii games?

One thing you have to remember is that businesses can turn very slowly.  A Lot of the great support that the 360 got is stuff that was hammered out in 2005-2007, when everybody was making waggle jokes and saying casual this and casual that.  I'm sure Nintendo's got some big tech coming in the future, but they aren't going to sink $6 billion like MS or sink $5 billion Like Sony just to win the enthusiast press sites, all the while increasing console and game prices and making this the most expensive Generation since the CD-I-3DO era.  Either the third parties will come around, or they won't and die.  It's their choice and their decision to take Nintendo's offer, not Nintendo's.

[Ymeegod]

"Either the third parties will come around, or they won't and die."

But that's kinda the point.  If the WII was as powerful as the 360 at least then the developers could have ported their games from one platform to another.  There's alot of titles that are multiplatform that didn't get ported to the WII simply because of this fact.  So who loses?  Big N? Nope, just the WII gamers who either have to buy another system or miss out of great hits.  Again, Nintendo could have taken a loss on hardware and make it up on sales.   

As far RPGs yeah I know about those titles coming out but that's kinda the moot point isn't it--they're not out now and they few RPG's they released so far have been pretty damn crappy.  I've played just about all of them as well and I'll take either SO 4 and Lost Odyssey over them anyhow.  And that still leaves out western style RPG's as well.
 
BTW Deguello do you own another system as well?  As I see it the WII is not a standalone system which COULD have easily been fixed if nintendo either developed or purchased genres where it's weakest.

What I would do if I was Big N?

I'll do more co-developed games with other studios.  Worked great so far?  Recall Fzero GX, or all those Flagships Zelda titles and now Metroid Other M.  This not only worked free up Big N own developers but gives the fans titles to play.  Everyone wins (well as long as not another Star Fox misstep)
 
2.  I'll buy some western support to target both WRPGs&MMO.  Not to mention more action games.  They bought Retro years ago and it worked out well for them.  Free Radical, Mythic Entertainment, ect.  were all up on the market awhile back and again they have some talent that could have been bought for cheap.  It's a great time to expand--everyone needs money and Big N has a full vault.

3.  Get a real Online plan.  Just copy what is already out. 

4.  Change the bundle already.  I'm almost shocked Big N didn't push a WII Sports Resort package?  Could easily sold another 1/2 million consoles per month but they didn't. 

5.  Go all the way with WII edu software.  WII Fit isn't to bad but where's the Fit Channel?  Same with the DS cooking title.  Great piece of software but why isn't there a cooking channel?  Or why not a WII cooking title?  I wouldn't love it because the existing DS hardware limited the recipes to only 250 alot of my fav's weren't even on it.  Imagine unlimted recipes, ect.  Nintendo's made a great start but it needs to finish it now.
   

[Deguello]

But that's kinda the point.  If the WII was as powerful as the 360 at least then the developers could have ported their games from one platform to another.  There's alot of titles that are multiplatform that didn't get ported to the WII simply because of this fact.  So who loses?  Big N? Nope, just the WII gamers who either have to buy another system or miss out of great hits.  Again, Nintendo could have taken a loss on hardware and make it up on sales.

Because that's working so well for Microsoft and Sony, right?  (Wrong, they've lost billions this generation.)  If anything Nintendo's making sure video games at least stay profitable enough to be taken seriously as a business.  If it were not for Nintendo, the video game market would have crashed this generation under the crushing weight of massive losses.  And How is all this Nintendo's fault?  Shouldn't third parties WANT to support the market leader?  That was ALL that was on their lips last generation.

BTW Deguello do you own another system as well?

No, they are still too expensive.  Really wish Microsoft kept prices under control instead of just ramping them up so they could try in vain to show a profit in video games for once.

What I would do if I was Big N?

Oh boy...

I'll do more co-developed games with other studios.  Worked great so far?  Recall Fzero GX, or all those Flagships Zelda titles and now Metroid Other M.  This not only worked free up Big N own developers but gives the fans titles to play.  Everyone wins (well as long as not another Star Fox misstep)

Or it could HAMPER Nintendo's devs because "co-developing" in third parties' terms means "Nintendo develops it and we take a cut."  Just like Dragon Quest Swords, which, while a Square enix game, was developed by Nintendo developer Genius Sonority.  So Nintendo ends up wasting resources and dev time on things third parties should be doing anyway.

2.  I'll buy some western support to target both WRPGs&MMO.  Not to mention more action games.  They bought Retro years ago and it worked out well for them.  Free Radical, Mythic Entertainment, ect.  were all up on the market awhile back and again they have some talent that could have been bought for cheap.  It's a great time to expand--everyone needs money and Big N has a full vault.

MMOs haven't really been demonstrated as a success on consoles yet.  That would just be a money sink and a developer sink to develop a pointless MMO, especially in a WoW dominated market.  And just buying people wouldn't do anything if all these third parties are hostile to Nintendo anyway.  Their employees would juts leave the company.  It's what happened when MS bought Rare.  Now they have an unprofitable turkey that they bought just for name recognition.

3.  Get a real Online plan.  Just copy what is already out. 

Nintendo's online plan is simple and free, and just what the doctor ordered to people who were hostile to online gaming before (like myself.)  MS's setup is fine and all, but it's still a drag on their profits which means either the price will go up or it'll have it's features ramped back.  But either way, it hasn't really grown the market or MS's position, whereas Nintendo's Online Plan as a part of their overall console strategy has led to their console selling faster than the PS2.

4.  Change the bundle already.  I'm almost shocked Big N didn't push a WII Sports Resort package?  Could easily sold another 1/2 million consoles per month but they didn't.

Maybe they should wait until their sales drop below their competitors or they stop selling faster than the PS2?  Just a thought. (A profite-yielded, not-losing-money-to-please-Ymeegod thought)

5.  Go all the way with WII edu software.  WII Fit isn't to bad but where's the Fit Channel?  Same with the DS cooking title.  Great piece of software but why isn't there a cooking channel?  Or why not a WII cooking title?  I wouldn't love it because the existing DS hardware limited the recipes to only 250 alot of my fav's weren't even on it.  Imagine unlimted recipes, ect.  Nintendo's made a great start but it needs to finish it now.

A cooking Channel is a bad idea.  The DS cookbook thing is meant for the DS because it's small enough to be in the kitchen while you cook.  And how would filling an over-saturated market be profitable? You don't seem to get this idea of profit, do you?

[Ymeegod]

Saddly, you miss the entire point.

All you talk about is profit but my point is why isn't Big N throwing MY money back into MY Fav hobby?  I'm the customer so i should get what I want. 

MS's losing tons of money due to faulty hardware, not because the software isn't up to par.  Sony's losing money not from the PS3 but from it's other divisions (TV & Laptops ect). 

And you missed my point about co-developing games--Big N was going be the supervisor and I gave  great results (Fzero GX, Zelda's GBA games) . You're example was a 2nd party devleoper and a rather poor one at that.  The only 2nd parties that could be trusted on their own might be camelot and hal IMO.  The only title that suffered from this arrangement was poor ole starfox (Starfox Assault).

[Mop it up]

but my point is why isn't Big N throwing MY money back into MY Fav hobby?  I'm the customer so i should get what I want. 

Because you're not Nintendo's only customer, they have 50 million others. You already got what you wanted when you purchased the games you own, and if you don't like Nintendo's current products then go find something offered by someone else. Nintendo doesn't owe you anything, stop treating a business relationship like a personal relationship.

[Ymeegod]

"Nintendo's only customer"  Duh I guess I wouldn't guess that.

And I do own other consoles (actually own them all but the DSI) and that's kinda my point.  If Big N wants to be king it has to have the software to go with it, right now the X360 still leads even though it doesn't lead in sales.  50 million users don't mean jack when there's not alot of software to back it up--the Gamecube actually had more titles in the 80% range in the first two years compared to the WII.  As I addressed there's alot of reasons for this (hardware limitations preventing ports ect) and how to correct the issue.

"Nintendo doesn't owe you anything"  Never said they do but if you want customer loyalty you should support the people who got you where you are today am I right?  I still enjoy their products don't get me wrong but if they want me to go exclusive then they're going have to deliever on their end--I need games to play.

 

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

"support the people who got you where you are today am I right?"

That's right.  Children and families.

[Deguello]

MS's losing tons of money due to faulty hardware, not because the software isn't up to par.  Sony's losing money not from the PS3 but from it's other divisions (TV & Laptops ect).

Sony just this quarter announced a $416 million loss in their Games Division.  Please come equipped with data next time.

[smallsharkbigbite]

BTW Deguello do you own another system as well?

No, they are still too expensive.  Really wish Microsoft kept prices under control instead of just ramping them up so they could try in vain to show a profit in video games for once.

4.  Change the bundle already.  I'm almost shocked Big N didn't push a WII Sports Resort package?  Could easily sold another 1/2 million consoles per month but they didn't.

Maybe they should wait until their sales drop below their competitors or they stop selling faster than the PS2?  Just a thought. (A profite-yielded, not-losing-money-to-please-Ymeegod thought)

The xbox360 is $200 now which is cheaper than a Wii.  The PS3 can be had for $250 if you sign up for a credit card from Sonystyle.com.  That's not factoring the fact that a Wii controller costs $60 versus the $40 from the competitors and you'll need an SD card for the Wii if you plan to utilize the download service at all.  If your a Nintendo fanatic and need everything Nintendo, the Wii is a good console, but value wise, I have a hard time reccomending the Wii over the PS3 at this point.  At the beginning when the PS3 was $600 it was a no brainer.  But now that the market is so segmented I feel the PS3 is a better overall value and really can be had for the same price of the Wii (less if you factor controllers/storage).

The thing that annoys me about the Wii is since they are making money, they should use enough of it to make the Wii a better product.  I'm glad I bought a Wii, but in many respects I liked the gamecube better and if I recently bought a Wii I'd feel like I got ripped off.  $250 for 8 year old hardware is not a good deal.  Luckily I bought it at launch when I felt the overall package was worth $250 at the time.  There were some third party games that actually tried on the gamecube as well.  I'm a big fan of Remake, Metal Gear, Timesplitters, etc.  Some of those games held their own particularly against the xbox, but also somewhat against the bohemoth that was the PS2.

The other problem that annoys me is there was a time last generation where PS2 just took off and owned the market.  Most developers look at the market as PS3/Xbox360 vs. Wii.  They do this because the graphics/controls are so different.  So you'll see either a Wii only game (usually with wonky controls) or a PS3/Xbox360 game which highlights graphics/physics.  Typically the better games have gone xbox360/PS3.  When you look at NPD/etc.  It usually details the Wii owning 40-50% of the market.  Now this is clearly good especially coming from the gamecube which owned like 12%.  But the PS2 ended around 65-70%.  If the Wii tried with a price drop of only $50 and maybe buying a big exclusive game could they push to the 65-70% range?  We'll never know because Nintendo is glued to short term profits that they don't realize that they risk turning off consumers in the future.  It's hard to say with certainty, but next generation when the 360/PS3 siblings have great graphics, new control schemes, and still have the third party dominance (since Wii isn't buildng bridges with developers) we'll see how well Nintendo does when people aren't caught off gaurd by innovative controls.

[Deguello]

The xbox360 is $200 now which is cheaper than a Wii.  The PS3 can be had for $250 if you sign up for a credit card from Sonystyle.com.  That's not factoring the fact that a Wii controller costs $60 versus the $40 from the competitors and you'll need an SD card for the Wii if you plan to utilize the download service at all.

I'm not going to argue prices with you, mainly because the $200 Xbox 360 is that totally stripped down version, and you keep talking about accessories like the 360 and PS3 don't have them.

If the Wii tried with a price drop of only $50 and maybe buying a big exclusive game could they push to the 65-70% range?  We'll never know because Nintendo is glued to short term profits that they don't realize that they risk turning off consumers in the future.

Could you explain this in detail?  I don't see how lots of people buying the Wii at the current price means they should drop it and how it would risk turning off anybody.  And LOL short term profits.  This isn't a charity, guy.

It's hard to say with certainty, but next generation when the 360/PS3 siblings have great graphics, new control schemes, and still have the third party dominance (since Wii isn't buildng bridges with developers) we'll see how well Nintendo does when people aren't caught off gaurd by innovative controls.

Didn't Sony already try a motion control thing?  Didn't it suck so bad people forgot it existed which helped them pitch their Wii knockoff this year?  Do you really think all those current 360 owners even like the prospect of Natal?  Do you think all those third parties who spent this whole generation knocking motion controls are going to be able to just magically adapt when Sony and MS force them to use motion controls?  This isn't so simple as it looks, dude.  Better graphics doesn't = TEH WIN, because that would mean the PS3 and 360 would be tops and Wii would be in the pit.  And to be honest, Nintendo can get all the graphical specs the 360 has and then some for bargain basement prices right now.  If anything it's MS and Sony who are painted into a corner because they really can't advance graphics further than TVs can display or even customers can appreciably discern.