Author Topic: ♥ Loyalty ♥ (Read 29904 times)

Stogi · « **Reply #25 on:** April 14, 2009, 01:19:51 PM »

I think DrewMG summed up my feelings pretty accurately.

If Nintendo chooses to ignore me, that's fine. Just realize there will be a backlash, not only from me, but from everyone I talk to about Nintendo.

And UB, it's Stogi

UncleBob · « **Reply #26 on:** April 14, 2009, 01:22:37 PM »

That's part of the problem. Stogi is only a lifetime gamer. When he dies, he won't be buying any more Nintendo products (unless he's like me and has something set up in his will...)

If Nintendo can make "Product not for Strogi" and sell four times as many as they can for making "Product for Strogi" and just *one* of those new-market gamers stick around, they've already increased their profits.

Now, obviously, the best of both worlds is to release "Product for Strogi" *and* "Product not for Strogi" and sell to both him and the four new customers (Or release "Product for Everyone" and sell one thing to five people), but that's not always possible.

When it comes down to the axe of what to make and what not to make, the company has to crunch all the figures. Loyalty, I'm sure, is one of those figures. Just like when I buy a game - I see crap-THQ title next to Nintendo title. I'm more likely to buy the Nintendo title, because I know they've consistently given me good games. But when I bring up the fact that I don't buy many 3rd party games, people attack me for not supporting the other companies.

If Nintendo only made "Product for Stogi", they'd get attacked (by not selling as much product as they could) by the "not for Stogi" crowd.

>"Brand loyalty makes you a blind consumer, but Corporations are wise to recognize that it exists."

Agreed - but only so far as it's a wise business decision.

Stogi: You should consider adding an R. :p

>"If Nintendo chooses to ignore me, that's fine. Just realize there will be a backlash, not only from me, but from everyone I talk to about Nintendo."

What are you going to say? "Yeah, used to be a Nintendo fan... but then they made games I didn't like. They might stop making games you like too. And give you STDs."?

NWR_DrewMG · « **Reply #27 on:** April 14, 2009, 01:26:50 PM »

Quote

If Nintendo only made "Product for Stogi", they'd get attacked (by not selling as much product as they could) by the "not for Stogi" crowd.

Well I suppose the difference there is that Stogi, in this scenario, represents the "loyal" customer, and therefore is much more likely to be upset by a lack of titles that appeal to him, than a customer without a history of being loyal to Nintendo.

But overall I think you and I are on the same page.

Brand loyalty is something that must be taken into account when deciding which titles to produce, but from a consumer standpoint, it is irrational and leads to bad decisions.

Even so, I think it's human nature, to some extent, to want to trumpet the things we like as being superior even if we haven't tried everything else. I love my iPhone, and have loved all of my iPods. I will continue buying them. I believe them to be a better purchase for me than another brand of portable media player, yet I haven't tried all the other kinds of MP3 players on the market. I stick with Apple because they have proven that they meet my needs and I am happy with their products.

Stogi · « **Reply #28 on:** April 14, 2009, 01:34:56 PM »

Quote

>"If Nintendo chooses to ignore me, that's fine. Just realize there will be a backlash, not only from me, but from everyone I talk to about Nintendo."

What are you going to say? "Yeah, used to be a Nintendo fan... but then they made games I didn't like. They might stop making games you like too. And give you STDs."?

It's like a pizza joint. If I use to like their pizzas, but now they make disgusting pizzas, I'm going to tell everyone that they make disgusting pizzas. That's why managers are so quick to apologize.

D_Average · « **Reply #29 on:** April 14, 2009, 02:33:50 PM »

Quote from: Kashogi Y. Stogi on April 14, 2009, 01:34:56 PM

Quote
>"If Nintendo chooses to ignore me, that's fine. Just realize there will be a backlash, not only from me, but from everyone I talk to about Nintendo."

What are you going to say? "Yeah, used to be a Nintendo fan... but then they made games I didn't like. They might stop making games you like too. And give you STDs."?

It's like a pizza joint. If I use to like their pizzas, but now they make disgusting pizzas, I'm going to tell everyone that they make disgusting pizzas. That's why managers are so quick to apologize.

Are you referring to Papa Johns? Come on now, they're not so bad, I used to flip pizzas there.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #30 on:** April 14, 2009, 02:34:52 PM »

Technically if you really want to look at it no one owes anyone loyalty REALLY. Your friends, your family, your employer, your spouse, your pets. Anyone can drop you in a second if they choose to and you cannot force them to be loyal. And it goes the same in reverse: no one can truly force you to be loyal. Yeah the law might force you to uphold a contract but even then you can in theory escape the law, though it may not be worth the effort for you do so.

I think loyalty is just one of those things hard-wired into the human brain. It's instinctive to want somebody to be loyal to you and usually the understanding is that to acheive that loyalty one has to be loyal in return. While it may seem silly to apply this to anything but our closest personal relationships, we do it anyway. You see it everywhere. People being loyal to their doctor or their employer or their sports team or a business or a belief. I think part of it is just that we desire loyalty and logically if one is loyal to something there is the assumption that it in turn will be loyal back.

So does my loyalty to Nintendo make sense? Not really. I should be smart enough to recognize that this is a big corporation that only wants my money and I should look out entirely for myself. Still I think it's easy for one to see why I would be loyal or why anyone would be. You can say that Nintendo is free to do whatever they wish, and you're right. But I think it should still be understandable that I would be upset with what I see as them being disloyal to me after I have been loyal to them. Just as it is instinctive to be loyal and expect loyalty in return, it is instinctive to react negatively to disloyalty.

Why do I think Nintendo is disloyal? Because I've been a supportive customer to then for years but they no longer see meeting my needs as a priority. Instead of making a real effort to improve their product for the market I'm in, they decided to focus on a new market entirely. I feel that though they still make games for me I see it largely as a token effort. They are taking advantage of my loyalty and assuming I will continue to support them, despite me not being their focus. All they have to do is throw me a bone once in a while, or so they think. But I think that Nintendo's REAL passion and their REAL interest is in non-games and the blue ocean market. I figure over time as they feel safer with that market their interest in the old market will decrease and eventually disappear. We're being replaced. I know those that don't agree with me don't see it (or choose not to). And at the same time they try to convince me everything is fine and I don't see it and that's probably equally frustrating. But I see I'm not a focus and after supporting them for all these years I think it's fair to be pissed off about that.

Though while my loyalty to Nintendo may seem silly at the very least I have a reason for being loyal. My loyalty was earned by the company making a qualty product that I liked. There are may fans who's loyalty is circular logic. They're loyal to Nintendo because they're loyal to Nintendo. It doesn't matter what Nintendo does, these fans stay loyal as if they have an obligation to. That is crazy. You can't crap on someone expecting loyalty from Nintendo and not crap on those that treat their fandom as if it's a marital vow and that regardless of what the company does and what the company makes they will stay loyal for life.

For those that don't think Nintendo is being disloyal or do not feel that Nintendo owes anyone anything I ask you to put yourself in my shoes and those that share my opinion. If you DID expect Nintendo to be loyal to their customers and felt that they were being disloyal to YOU with their current actions how would YOU feel about it?

Morari · « **Reply #31 on:** April 14, 2009, 04:04:16 PM »

Being loyal to your employer is almost as dumb as expecting an entertainment company to be loyal to fanboys.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #32 on:** April 14, 2009, 04:25:48 PM »

I think this whole "I buy many games" talk is just a way for the hardcore gamers to look like they're more important than they are. Hardcore gamers act like they buy many more games than casual gamers and abandoning the hardcore means losing a ton of sales yet in reality Nintendo was suffering badly in the home console market until they started branching out which suggests that there's a lot more money outside the hardcore market than inside. Of course the hardcore brush that off with claims that the new gamers won't buy more than one or two games before running out of attention because they're unsophisticated idiots but the data does not support that claim, the Wii's tie in ratio is not out of the ordinary (and it's better than the DS's yet noone would dare call the DS a fad or resting entirely on a userbase that doesn't buy games).

Additionally talking about Nintendo being disloyal to the hardcore gamers is a whole load of bullshit because they're still making mostly core games. How many Wii games have been aimed specifically at the new market? Did Nintendo do anything besides the Wii X series which has four entries? In comparison, how many core games have they made? They didn't just make the usual Mario, Metroid, Zelda games, they also made a ton of other games like Batallion Wars, Strikers, Excite Truck, Animal Crossing, ... Seriously, claiming that Nintendo no longer makes core games and only makes new market games is a plain lie. Contrast that to:

Quote from: Ian Sane on April 14, 2009, 02:34:52 PM

Why do I think Nintendo is disloyal? Because I've been a supportive customer to then for years but they no longer see meeting my needs as a priority. Instead of making a real effort to improve their product for the market I'm in, they decided to focus on a new market entirely. I feel that though they still make games for me I see it largely as a token effort. They are taking advantage of my loyalty and assuming I will continue to support them, despite me not being their focus. All they have to do is throw me a bone once in a while, or so they think. But I think that Nintendo's REAL passion and their REAL interest is in non-games and the blue ocean market. I figure over time as they feel safer with that market their interest in the old market will decrease and eventually disappear. We're being replaced. I know those that don't agree with me don't see it (or choose not to). And at the same time they try to convince me everything is fine and I don't see it and that's probably equally frustrating. But I see I'm not a focus and after supporting them for all these years I think it's fair to be pissed off about that.

Why in hell's name would Nintendo worry about pissing someone off who gets angry if even a minority of the resources of the company are not focussed at him? This is a tradeoff, either you support the people who demand your whole attention and then still don't buy games or you just go for people who are happy when you offer them a product that's good with no regard for what else you offer. Who would choose to appeal to people who whine about not being the center of your attention and start complaining the minute you sell to anyone but them? Hell, last I checked Ian was complaining back when Nintendo WAS focussing on people like him. Can you seriously fault Nintendo for saying "**** that"? Most of the core market is not this demanding so losing the <1% that is doesn't matter even if you just count the core market.

Besides, Nintendo's mission statement has ALWAYS been "games for everybody", last gen that got ridiculed as boxing them into the kid market, people demanded games for "older" gamers, Nintendo expands to older, mature people and now people whine that Nintendo is being too casual. Well excuuuuuuse me princess but most older people are not devoting a lot of their time to gaming, obviously games for older people have to account for that. Oh wait, you meant "older" as in 12-24 year old gore kiddies. Yeah, that's really a demographic that's been missing... People who define their own maturity by playing gvideogames with things that get rated mature, thereby revealing their own immaturity...

Stogi · « **Reply #33 on:** April 14, 2009, 04:33:12 PM »

All I'd like to add is this:

There's a reason why I'm loyal. I just don't want Nintendo to ever forget that reason.

NWR_DrewMG · « **Reply #34 on:** April 14, 2009, 04:36:27 PM »

I started typing out a reply to this thread, and then realized that these are the kind of discussions that forced me to stop going to infendo.com. Specifically ones that centered around the guy you're quoting in your sig, KDR_11k.

I really need to stop getting into debates on the internet.

With that, I will leave this thread and stick to ones that don't make me feel like typing for 20 minutes straight.

EasyCure · « **Reply #35 on:** April 14, 2009, 04:37:48 PM »

Strogi is the reason Nintendo "abandoned" us

Stogi · « **Reply #36 on:** April 14, 2009, 04:39:08 PM »

Yes, let's go find that bastard Strogi!

EasyCure · « **Reply #37 on:** April 14, 2009, 04:43:55 PM »

Quote from: Kashogi Y. Stogi on April 14, 2009, 04:39:08 PM

Yes, let's go find that bastard Strogi!

STROGI MUST DIE! HE'LL FEEL THE WRATH OF CAPTAIN NUTSACK AND THE EASYCURE

i'm making light of the situation because KDR pretty much 'won' the thread

KDR_11k · « **Reply #38 on:** April 14, 2009, 05:39:25 PM »

Quote from: DrewMG on April 14, 2009, 04:36:27 PM

Specifically ones that centered around the guy you're quoting in your sig, KDR_11k.

Lota is too big for your puny pronouns.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #39 on:** April 14, 2009, 05:46:59 PM »

Quote

Hell, last I checked Ian was complaining back when Nintendo WAS focussing on people like him. Can you seriously fault Nintendo for saying "**** that"?

So the moral of the story is if people criticize you, ignore them and find someone who doesn't? Yeah I was complaining back then because Nintendo was doing a pretty half-assed LOUSY job. It's constructive criticism. On the Cube the third party support was the shits, they lost Rare, they nickle and dimed us for little things like overpriced memory cards, and they provided no online gaming during a time that this was an expected feature and they also LIED about that too, mentioning vague details of some online plan to reveal later only to eventually reveal there was no plan at all.

So what has Nintendo done? Did they address these issues that I had a perfectly VALID reason to complain about? Third party support still sucks and they don't appear to make any effort to address it. They not only haven't replaced Rare but have also now lost Silicon Knights. They still nickle and dime everyone. They do have an online plan now but they do it in a weird ass way (still an improvement I guess). They really have not improved much at all from a core gamer perspective.

And now they have no incentive to improve because they found a market that doesn't care. And it's damn obvious to me that we're a low priority. All we get are sequels while the creative new content is non-gamer based. Last Christmas we were expected to make do with a non-game and a glorified remake of a game we already had on the Cube (which Nintendo of course passed off as a new game). Since then we've had to make due with, surprise, MORE remakes of games we already had on the Cube. Of course Nintendo doesn't care because the market they're truly focused on didn't buy a Cube. A lot of you saw Punch-Out and S&P 2 as Nintendo expressing commitment to core gamers. I don't see that. Since those titles are not handled by Nintendo's top first party devs I see them as secondary titles - token efforts to appear to appeal to core gamers and most of your reactions to it is EXACTLY what they were hoping for.

I get accused of complaining but what I was complaining about on the Cube has not been addressed by Nintendo. So should I stop? Does the fact that they regained the top spot by targeting a group with lower standards somehow make that all okay? I became a Nintendo fan for a reason. They started really screwing up and making it much harder to remain a fan but because they still made really great games I stayed loyal and gave them a chance next gen. But I feel they have taken that loyalty for granted since they have found success with a new market and have made no real effort to improve from a core gamer perspective. They appear to not care as long as the non-gamers make them rich.

Disagree all you want. I know most of you do. But that's how I see it and if you saw it the same way you would feel the same way I do and understand why I feel that way.

Adrock · « **Reply #40 on:** April 14, 2009, 06:36:06 PM »

I tend to gravitate toward Nintendo games/hardware because they meet my needs. I like Nintendo as a developer and I can only get their games on Nintendo hardware. I wouldn't call that brand loyalty. I'll take fun wherever I can get it.

Stogi · « **Reply #41 on:** April 14, 2009, 07:11:00 PM »

Dude this **** is ridonkulous.

Anyone that posts on a Nintendo forum is loyal to the brand.

EasyCure · « **Reply #42 on:** April 14, 2009, 07:14:15 PM »

Quote from: Kashogi Y. Stogi on April 14, 2009, 07:11:00 PM

Dude this **** is ridonkulous.

Anyone that posts on a Nintendo forum is loyal to the brand.

or a troll

Ian Sane · « **Reply #43 on:** April 14, 2009, 07:19:54 PM »

Stogi nailed it.

EasyCure · « **Reply #44 on:** April 14, 2009, 07:37:05 PM »

Quote from: Ian Sane on April 14, 2009, 07:19:54 PM

Strogi nailed it.

to be fair.. i hear he'll nail anything that moves

Stogi · « **Reply #45 on:** April 14, 2009, 07:39:29 PM »

Says you!

I'm always trying to move up the ladder.

pretty funny though

Plugabugz · « **Reply #46 on:** April 14, 2009, 07:39:55 PM »

Loyalty is for moist fools!

D_Average · « **Reply #47 on:** April 14, 2009, 07:42:49 PM »

Quote from: Kashogi Y. Stogi on April 14, 2009, 07:11:00 PM

Dude this **** is ridonkulous.

Anyone that posts on a Nintendo forum is loyal to the brand.

Not true. I've bought ever Nintendo console BUT the GameCube. I mean, come on guys, gotta have standards.

NinGurl69 *huggles · « **Reply #48 on:** April 14, 2009, 07:45:55 PM »

Quote from: EasyCure on April 14, 2009, 07:37:05 PM

Quote from: Ian Sane on April 14, 2009, 07:19:54 PM
Strogi nailed it.

to be fair.. i hear he'll nail anything that moves

Try-sexual.

UncleBob · « **Reply #49 on:** April 14, 2009, 11:26:05 PM »

Quote from: Ian Sane on April 14, 2009, 02:34:52 PM

For those that don't think Nintendo is being disloyal or do not feel that Nintendo owes anyone anything I ask you to put yourself in my shoes and those that share my opinion. If you DID expect Nintendo to be loyal to their customers and felt that they were being disloyal to YOU with their current actions how would YOU feel about it?

So long as one thinks Nintendo owes you nothing, your question fails.
Put yourself in my shoes - Let's say I expect Nintendo to fly me to Japan, wine and dine me and give me a tour of their Japanese HQ and free games - how would you feel if it was you who expected this and Nintendo wasn't providing it?

They're a company. Period. Anyone who's expecting to have a personal relationship with a multi-billion dollar international company is setting themselves up for fail.

You buy a $50 game from Nintendo and Nintendo gives you a $50 game. End of transaction.

News:

Author Topic: ♥ Loyalty ♥ (Read 29904 times)