Author Topic: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)  (Read 8941 times)

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Offline Nick DiMola

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Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2009, 07:19:47 AM »
I think this really begs the question, were these design choices made intentionally, or is this evidence of a lack of experience at the system level by Nintendo's internal developers?

I think this is an excellent question to ask. From the description it seems like a bit of both. On one hand there appears to be a lack or foresight with the need to update every previous system update, but the general design of it seems like they meant for it to be the way it is.
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Offline Flames_of_chaos

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Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2009, 07:52:29 AM »
Pale I think part of it is intentional since the SD card is such a standard hot swappable medium that it can be used with practically any device with a SD reader since it's not a proprietary format, Nintendo had to implement some kind of anti piracy measure on it's downloadable games and DLC.

EDIT:
Also in a way PS3 games are the same way since a lot of games doesn't support exporting friends lists off of the XMB especially the early ones so I think it's a moot point to try to introduce something in a game that wasn't possible thanks to a future firmware update that no game developer could possibly foresee. So complaining that old Wii games that don't benefit these firmware updates is a moot point.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2009, 08:07:34 AM by Flames_of_chaos »
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Offline Pale

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Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2009, 08:26:21 AM »
This has nothing to do with anti-piracy.  They could have easily treated the SD card as a true memory expansion and still implemented the same anti piracy measures.  Instead of decrypting on the copy, decrypt at play time.

I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no excuse for any of Nintendo's storage blunders this gen.  Even ignoring SD all together, putting in 2-4 gigs of internal flash memory would have barely made a dent in the manufacturing price.  It all just shows little to no concern for DLC or the Virtual Console in general. It's like they decided on the 512 number based solely on the size of game saves, which 512 megs can store a metric ton of.
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Offline Flames_of_chaos

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Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2009, 08:30:27 AM »
Well Pale on the good side Nintendo did hint that they have to do a firmware overhaul and some kind of menu system overhaul to make the storage solution work so we will just have to see what Nintendo cooked up in a few months also the DSi is in the same boat about managing storage except you have 256MB internal memory and it supports SDHC.
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Offline Pale

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Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2009, 08:45:52 AM »
I'm just totally skeptical of this supposed solution... god I hope I'm wrong though.

I've been tempted to get into homebrew so I could try programming my own solution based on option 3 that the author of this article talked about.

I have a sneaking suspicion it wouldn't be possible in the homebrew scene though, based on the fact that it hasn't been done yet.
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Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #30 on: March 03, 2009, 08:53:29 AM »
To this day, downloadable games are my favorite part of the Wii.  Sure, I'm enjoying their main releases, but my gaming tastes have changed as my free time has shrunk and nostalgic and/or short gaming bursts are what make me the happiest at this point.
This is how I have been for so long with the Wii. My friend used to tease me that I spent $200 on an emulator.

Back on topic, I wonder if all Nintendo's efforts to thwart piracy by way of "closed" console design has paid off for it? Haven't Nintendo consoles ALWAYS been designed to be "closed" to manipulations/ add ons?

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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2009, 09:31:50 AM »
Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see what the huge deal is? Yeah it is kind of lame that patching isn't allowed, but beyond that what is the huge deal?
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Offline DAaaMan64

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Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #32 on: March 03, 2009, 09:42:06 AM »
Cause I want a real social experience all right there on my Wii.  I'm sorry to say this, but something more a long the line of XBL.

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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #33 on: March 03, 2009, 09:44:23 AM »
Cause I want a real social experience all right there on my Wii.  I'm sorry to say this, but something more a long the line of XBL.

[spoilers]looks like I'm not walking down the right streets.[/spoilers]

So you want to pay for it?
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Offline Pale

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Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2009, 09:49:36 AM »
Hurray for the same old arguments!

I think another damning thing this article points out is that there is no way we can ever see Wii Speak patched into older games.
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Offline UltimatePartyBear

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Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2009, 09:52:11 AM »
I don't even keep up with the homebrew scene and I already knew nearly everything ranted about in that article (I didn't know about IOS forking, but it's not exactly a surprise).  Was there supposed to be a point to it other than whining yet again that the Wii isn't a wannabe PC like the 360 and PS3?
« Last Edit: March 03, 2009, 09:53:56 AM by UltimatePartyBear »

Offline Hypotheliciously

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Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #36 on: March 03, 2009, 09:53:18 AM »
I think everyone wants a very unique and fulfilling social experience on their Wii. I use to speculate about the vast potential of the Wii online experience. I remember we discussed the wiimote becoming a possible "phone", allowing friends to call you to come play; how video and chat could let friends peer into each others living rooms; and how easy friend management and friend tracking can help everyone stay in touch.

Alas, I believe we won't get these features this generation.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #37 on: March 03, 2009, 09:57:34 AM »
I think everyone wants a very unique and fulfilling social experience on their Wii. I use to speculate about the vast potential of the Wii online experience. I remember we discussed the wiimote becoming a possible "phone", allowing friends to call you to come play; how video and chat could let friends peer into each others living rooms; and how easy friend management and friend tracking can help everyone stay in touch.

Alas, I believe we won't get these features this generation.

I never anticipated any of that (well except for the friend management, but is that necessarily squashed with this?) with Nintendos first real online system. It took MS a generation to get it right, and even after 2 generations Sony is still bumbling it.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2009, 10:02:44 AM by GoldenPhoenix »
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Offline Hypotheliciously

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Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #38 on: March 03, 2009, 10:03:10 AM »
Ya maybe, but Nintendo has been about online since the NES. It may not seem like it, but they were once very enthusiastic about the possibilities.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #39 on: March 03, 2009, 10:10:10 AM »
Ya maybe, but Nintendo has been about online since the NES. It may not seem like it, but they were once very enthusiastic about the possibilities.

Things have changed quite a bit since the NES days. They've dabbled in it but it wasn't until the Wii where they actually (tried) to embrace it.
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #40 on: March 03, 2009, 10:19:24 AM »
Fulfilling social experience?  Is Wii Bowling in a room full of grannies NOT ENOUGH?

But rest easy, everyone.  Nintendo has been slowly taking measures to develop interesting, desirable onrine, by making splitscreen gameplay UNDESIRABLE and DISCOURAGING other game makers from including it, as is the case with Mario Kart Wii and The Conduit.  By taking out those unnecessary features now, Nintendo can better focus on better functions next year.  To improve onrine, we have to destroy offrine (just like how they successfully destroyed traditional gaming).  This is sound planning, and should've been seen a mile away.

Nintendo is doing this all for YOU, yes, YOU, the customers that made yesterday's Nintendo so great today.  Nintendo knows and understands what the MAJORITY of its customers want, and knows how to deliver it.

Play it loud.

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Offline Flames_of_chaos

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Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #41 on: March 03, 2009, 10:30:24 AM »
Fulfilling social experience?  Is Wii Bowling in a room full of grannies NOT ENOUGH?

But rest easy, everyone.  Nintendo has been slowly taking measures to develop interesting, desirable onrine, by making splitscreen gameplay UNDESIRABLE and DISCOURAGING other game makers from including it, as is the case with Mario Kart Wii and The Conduit.  By taking out those unnecessary features now, Nintendo can better focus on better functions next year.  To improve onrine, we have to destroy offrine (just like how they successfully destroyed traditional gaming).  This is sound planning, and should've been seen a mile away.

Nintendo is doing this all for YOU, yes, YOU, the customers that made yesterday's Nintendo so great today.  Nintendo knows and understands what the MAJORITY of its customers want, and knows how to deliver it.

Play it loud.

Get N or Get Out.

The irony is Mario Kart Wii allows a guest player online and a couple of Wii online games enable this exact features.
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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #42 on: March 03, 2009, 10:41:26 AM »
U-G-H

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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #43 on: March 03, 2009, 10:43:04 AM »
By allowing a guest racer, Mario Kart Wii can show not one, but TWO PLAYERS how awful the splitscreen is!  A cunning tactic, Nintendo.
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Offline Hypotheliciously

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Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #44 on: March 03, 2009, 10:47:59 AM »
Why can't we have cake and eat it too?
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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #45 on: March 03, 2009, 10:54:58 AM »
Why do bad things happen to good people? Why doesn't the Wii come with an Open-Source OS pre-installed?
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Offline Infernal Monkey

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Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #46 on: March 03, 2009, 03:50:42 PM »
Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see what the huge deal is? Yeah it is kind of lame that patching isn't allowed, but beyond that what is the huge deal?

Don't you see, GP, Wii doesn't allow egg timers to be installed by pira-home brew enthusiasts. How will people ever be able to tell when their eggs are ready. It's why the Wii is a gimmick fad for grandma children. Also what happens when a developer releases a game that has no gameplay? They can't just patch it in like they can with PS3/PC/360!

Nintendo's ruined the God damn industry.



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« Last Edit: March 03, 2009, 03:57:42 PM by Infernal Monkey »

Offline Halbred

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Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #47 on: March 03, 2009, 04:01:00 PM »
Well, Nintendo's never made an OS before for a console, so part of the problem is probably lack of experience. Hopefully they'll learn from the mistakes of this generation. But I think another very large part is that Nintendo is and has been intentionally going the opposite way of the other companies (Sony and MS). Virtually every part of the Wii is a counterpoint to the philosophies of Sony and MS, to the point where MS is now jumping on the Nintendo bandwagon (family crap, avatars).

Nintendo may have stubbornly designed the Wii in order to BE different from the 360 and PS3. It targets a different audience, if not by philosophy then by default.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #48 on: March 03, 2009, 04:38:21 PM »
Why do bad things happen to good people? Why doesn't the Wii...

because
Ms and Sony doe what Nintendon't
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Why the Wii will never get any better (Firmware Related)
« Reply #49 on: March 03, 2009, 04:52:12 PM »
Quote
I think this really begs the question, were these design choices made intentionally, or is this evidence of a lack of experience at the system level by Nintendo's internal developers?

Nintendo tends to make the really DUMB design choices when it involves something someone else did first.  But when they come up with the idea themselves Nintendo just nails it.  So I've always assumed that Nintendo has a severe complex about admitting that competing companies have good ideas too.  If someone else did it first they always do it a really weird way and inevitably **** it up since they're trying to reinvent the wheel.  Sounds like stupid business sense but I can't think of any other reason for it.  And they ALWAYS do it.  Maybe it's a Japanese culture thing.
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