Topic: Looks like Earthbound won't be hitting Virtual Console

[Deguello]

With the merging and convergence of all media these days, testy issues like copyright infringement become more hazy despite the wealth of information.

Earthbound has several allusions to things in classic rock at the time.  While no music is directly referenced, there are several sequences in the game that are clearly inspired by such music, for instance when the Sky Runner flies through the air, the music is very reminiscent of The Who's "Don't' get fooled again" which can be enjoyed every monday on CBS as the title theme to CSI Miami.

Moonside's theme actually contains a sample of a song called "Keep on Laughin'" by Ric Ocasek.  This was way before the sticky mess that was sampling in the mid 90's.  The song that plays in the CafĂ© actually has both the Star Spangled Banner and the Theme Song from The Little Rascals in it, and while the American Anthem is OK to use, The Little Rascals is a little sticky.  The Naming Screen actually has a small bit of Monty Python's Flying Circus in it.

There are also direct references to the Beatles in the form of a yellow submarine in Dungeon Man, and there is a set of default names that have all the Beatles in it including Yoko for Paula.

Most of this stuff is nonenforceable because they did not enforce it then, but that only applies to the SNES game.  VC would be a new venture and now that everybody is tipped off to the samples, they'd jump on it like hawks.  Law is tricky, and Earthbound is a casualty of it, unfortunately.

[vudu]

And this too. Good thing i still have my copy<33 even if vudu broke it! lol

As long as you're bringing this up, when are you going to return my copy of Pikmin?

[UltimatePartyBear]

Earthbound has several allusions to things in classic rock at the time.  While no music is directly referenced, there are several sequences in the game that are clearly inspired by such music, for instance when the Sky Runner flies through the air, the music is very reminiscent of The Who's "Don't' get fooled again" which can be enjoyed every monday on CBS as the title theme to CSI Miami.

That one's a pretty big stretch, in my opinion.

The Naming Screen actually has a small bit of Monty Python's Flying Circus in it.

That's "The Liberty Bell" by Sousa.  It's in the public domain, which is largely why it was used in Monty Python's Flying Circus.

[Deguello]

Well, like I said, It's not whether my opinion matters.  It's whether it can be successfully argued in court.  And once that monster is loose, considering Nintendo's popularity with customers, gamers, and the general populace, and their UNpopularity with hardcore, blog-running, astroturf, corporatized games media, you can bet this would get a lot of play for a long time.

Unfortunately, the right decision is simply to avoid all that mess by either altering the game, which NCL won't, which is a respectable position that would place art over corporatism (for those keeping score on that, and you know who I'm talking about), or just not releasing it all, which NOA will, which is also a respectable position, because, despite being a big time fan of them, I don't expect nor do I demand that they get embroiled in a lawsuit battle just so I can get a digital copy of a game I already own.

Mother 3, on the other hand, I would like to see, and I hope it doesn't have these issues.

[Stogi]

So I've never played any of the Mother games. Are they really that great? I mean, it's an rpg correct? How is it any better than some of the classics?

[KDR_11k]

Isn't there something like compulsory licensing for song covers?

[Mop it up]

So I've never played any of the Mother games. Are they really that great? I mean, it's an rpg correct? How is it any better than some of the classics?

In terms of gameplay, it isn't different than other RPGs; in fact, its battle system pretty much copies that of the original Dragon Warrior games for the NES. However, its cast of wacky characters and weird, off-the-wall enemies make it sort of feel like a parody of RPGs. Of course, with all of the Mario RPGs that have been released, this may not sound like anything special, but Earthbound is the original goofy/parody RPG.

[Peachylala]

Mother 3, on the other hand, I would like to see, and I hope it doesn't have these issues.

As far as I can tell, all it needs is a DS remake. Add Starmen.net fans bitching alot and NoA might cave in.

Might.

[Khushrenada]

The setting is one of the biggest differences. It's set in a modern day world instead of steampunk or some future technocracy. Instead of spell-casting, it's ESP. And instead of swords and spears, they use baseball bats and yo-yo's and bottle rockets and kung-fu. And it deals with aliens instead of magic crystals or ancient demons or things of that nature. Plus, it is played more for laughs than to be a serious drama.

[EasyCure]

ok so i tried comparing some of the songs in the game to the Beatles sonfs theeyre supposed to sample and i dont hear anything blatant there.

i didnt get to check all the songs since theres some Beatles tunes i have, but for the ones i did hear i really dont find anything similar, just similar enough bbut only if you were looking for it. I read that the Cave Of The Past is supposed to sample All You Need Is Love and comparing the two you only hear 3 notes that sound similar. i dont see the big deal there, its not like Vanilla Ice saying his song and Bowie/Queens Under Pressure "are just not the same"

[Peachylala]

The setting is one of the biggest differences. It's set in a modern day world instead of steampunk or some future technocracy. Instead of spell-casting, it's ESP. And instead of swords and spears, they use baseball bats and yo-yo's and bottle rockets and kung-fu. And it deals with aliens instead of magic crystals or ancient demons or things of that nature. Plus, it is played more for laughs than to be a serious drama.

Pray thee that RPG fans can accept wackiness instead of Tetsuya Nomura crap.

I love Mother 3 for what it is. Wacky, touching and not afraid to be different.

People seriously need to play it more. yes piracy sucks but just play it dammit

[vudu]

ok so i tried comparing some of the songs in the game to the Beatles sonfs theeyre supposed to sample and i dont hear anything blatant there.

This article has some really good information including audio samples of a lot of the Earthbound songs as well the as the original tracks.

[UltimatePartyBear]

So, if I understand this right, NOA is refusing to release the game on the VC because they think they'll get sued, and NCL is refusing to change the music either because of artistic integrity or, more likely, because it's a huge pain in the butt that isn't worth it.  Have they really not considered the obvious third option of negotiating a deal with the people they think have a reason to sue?

[vudu]

The article I linked to addressed this.

Can’t NOA just license the music?

I really, really doubt this will happen. It’s a big hassle: rights holders vary from region to region and ownership can change hands often, sometimes there are multiple rights holders too. The costs would also probably outweigh the benefit for Nintendo, and then what if someone says no? Then they’re stuck in the same situation as now, or maybe even worse off. I work in the game and anime localization industry and licensing issues come up all the time, and it is NOT pretty. And very often, things just don’t work out. So my gut feeling says that there is a .0001% chance of this happening.

[Flames_of_chaos]

Here's an interesting article http://earthboundcentral.com/2009/02/earthbound-legal-issues/

[UltimatePartyBear]

I really, really doubt this will happen. It’s a big hassle: rights holders vary from region to region and ownership can change hands often, sometimes there are multiple rights holders too. The costs would also probably outweigh the benefit for Nintendo, and then what if someone says no?

Haven't they seen Back to the Future?  If you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything.  If Marty's dad could get a publishing deal for a book that includes a Vulcan named Darth Vader, why can't Nintendo work out a deal with a ghoulish fallen pop star?

So my gut feeling says that there is a .0001% chance of this happening.

Yeah, that's a pretty slim chance.  You know what plan has an even smaller chance of success, though?  WHAT THEY'RE DOING NOW, i.e. NOTHING.

[Ian Sane]

If Marty's dad could get a publishing deal for a book that includes a Vulcan named Darth Vader

Marty's dad quite clearly was able to copyright Vulcans and Darth Vader before both Star Trek and Star Wars existed.  We got the idea ten years before Star Trek debuted.

Couldn't Nintendo pass Earthbound as a parody?  It's like a parody of Western culture from the perspective of the Japanese, right?

[EasyCure]

LOL Flames fails

[Stogi]

Wait.....Earthbound samples the Beatles...is that true?

Damn,, that's pretty fucking cool.

[Spak-Spang]

This makes me sad, because I was just watching a review calling this one of the best RPGs created...and I actually wanted to play it and I hate RPGs.

[Jonnyboy117]

Considering that EB is a parody of gaming, RPGs, and American culture, it seems like Nintendo could just argue that the music is just a parody of all those copyrighted works.  Let us not forget that Nintendo is probably one of the most legally successful corporations in modern history.  I'm trying to think of a single case they lost or even settled...

[Mop it up]

What about when Hotel Mario and the three Zelda games appeared on the 3DO? Wasn't that due to a legal battle that Nintendo lost? Although I'd say the real losers were anyone who bought those games...

[GoldenPhoenix]

What about when Hotel Mario and the three Zelda games appeared on the 3DO? Wasn't that due to a legal battle that Nintendo lost? Although I'd say the real losers were anyone who bought those games...

Don't insult 3DO by putting it in the same category as phillips CD-i . I thought that was because Nintendo had an agreement with them.

[Khushrenada]

Considering that EB is a parody of gaming, RPGs, and American culture, it seems like Nintendo could just argue that the music is just a parody of all those copyrighted works.  Let us not forget that Nintendo is probably one of the most legally successful corporations in modern history.  I'm trying to think of a single case they lost or even settled...

They lost to the US Government when they were accused of price fixing. But to make it up, they sent out some kind of $5.00 off coupons on the purchase of a future game. Thus, they lost nothing. But technically, they did lose to the government. It was the book "Game Over". That's the only thing I can think of but there's a niggling feeling that there was one other case they lost. Still, they definitely have a strong precedent in winning legal cases.

[Mop it up]

Oh right, CD-i. I always get those two mixed up since they were both CD-based systems which came out around the same time, failed miserably, and are practically unknown in this day and age.