Topic: E3 2009 to reveal big software, from the man himself, Iwata. PS2 in his sights.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

June 3, 9AM Eastern

[Stratos]

Sony is stuck between a rock and a mountain.
They want piece of that casual market (motion controls. wiisports, simple games), but they can't afford more failure and alienating their core userbase. Sony needs PS3 to become profitable before moving on as their business model has been shaped around being #1 with a large userbase and all the 3rd party support. That made eating losses eventually profitable in the long run.

If anybody(between the 2) is in a position to take a financial risk and release a new controller(maybe with a new console as standard) it is MS. I'd be surprised to not hear something about a new console for Xmas 2010 from MS anyway, that is their 5 year mark afterall.

I remember reading somewhere a theory that the next Xbox would be coming in 2010 or 2011. They based this off of the 360 extended warranty expiration. After the RROD outbreak Microsoft issued extended warranties to 360 that ran out in 2010/11 and some people had theories that they chose this certain date because that was when they planned to release their new consoles.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Righto.

They could just announce the NextBox which is two 360s duct taped together, with standard motion controller and actual backwards compatibility.

[Stratos]

Righto.

They could just announce the NextBox which is two 360s duct taped together, with standard motion controller and actual backwards compatibility.

Right except for one thing: Backwards compatibility will cost you per title you want to play. $5-15 a title. $20 for the old Halo and Gears titles.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Righto.

They could just announce the NextBox which is two 360s duct taped together, with standard motion controller and actual backwards compatibility.

Thats basically what I imagine they will do. Xbox 365 with native 1080p support and stats bumped up enough to support it.
4-8gb of built in memory & specialized HDD add-ons for added storage. Standard motion control system (probably by external camera) with gyros  in a snap apart controller. games are made to scale (360<-->365 compatible) like computer games do today. priced at cost $299 (more likely $349 for slight profit and room to price drop) & comes with a glorified demo.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

And despite all that, it'll compete head to head with Wii for new-generation marketshare.

[Peachylala]

Predictions for E3:

1) Mario and Luigi 3 playable, NA title revealed.
2) A new Mario DS game (unlikely)
3) A new Mario Wii game (very unlikely)
4) Pikmin 3 (maybe...)
5) Star Fox Wii (Extremely unlikely, wishful thinking)
6) Nintendo buys Amusement Vision and Mario & Sonic developer from Sega, makes them do useful things (but still make Sega games, just under better guidance)
^HAHAHAH NO HAHAHAHA^

Better to do a 'wait-see' then get all fired up about something that won't happen. I think E3 2008 cemented that well.

[Ian Sane]

And as for Sony and MS, sure they seem to be in 'comfy' positions, but how can they be content 1) overwhelmingly not being the Market Leader and 2) having stagnant market performance in an environment of high (and rising) production costs?

Nintendo stayed put with the N64 and just rode it out until next gen.  Going with cartridges had rendered their console incapable of competing for the top spot.  They hypothetically could have introduced a CD drive to match the competition but didn't.  But Nintendo probably was profitable which makes a big difference.  But creating a new controller isn't going to make Sony's Blu-Ray drive suddenly cost less to make.

When you're missing a feature I'd say the biggest threat is losing games to the competition; when the competing consoles are getting all sorts of games you're missing out on because they just can't be done on your console.  Right now the Wii is the console with this problem because it's a glorified Gamecube 1.5.  Sony and MS might not be number one but they can say "we've got this game and this one and this one..."  The Wii is missing out on TONS of great games because it can't compete in hardware performance but the other consoles are not missing out on much because of the remote.

Aside from Dragon Quest X are there ANY third party games that Sony and MS are shitting bricks about not having?  The most threatening Wii games are first party and Sony and MS never could get those anyway.  It isn't like when Nintendo didn't have CDs and was completely shittered in terms of exclusives because so many games were being made that required the CD medium.  So at first Sony and MS were probably freaked of the remote because Wii Sports was leading the way and the Wii was selling like sex.  But that was when there was so much potential for the remote.  It was so unknown and thus scary to the competition.  But now it's a few years later and Wii Sports is, well, still pretty much the golden standard of Wiimote usage.  Third parties haven't abandoned the competition to embrace the Wiimote.  The Wiimote has not proven to be a new controller standard.  So for Sony and MS what's the rush in releasing their own knock-off?  Now Motion+ is the unknown so that may change things but right now the Wiimote is pretty much the Wii Sports controller and superior hardware specs are "winning" in regards to third party support.

Regarding next gen I really question why we need one.  Nintendo obviously does since the Wii can't even support HD and that is without a doubt a future requirement.  But for the other consoles?  Why go through the whole mess of releasing hardware that is too costly to profit on again?  Let the current stuff ride so that it becomes cheaper to make and can become profitable.

[Stratos]

Ian, I think with the N64 Nintendo was banking on the 64DD giving them that leg up on the pile compared to the CD based systems. When development on that stalled and bombed they were stuck with no alternative backup plan.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Regarding next gen I really question why we need one.  Nintendo obviously does since the Wii can't even support HD and that is without a doubt a future requirement.  But for the other consoles?  Why go through the whole mess of releasing hardware that is too costly to profit on again?  Let the current stuff ride so that it becomes cheaper to make and can become profitable.

That is exactly what Sony would want to happen (they need to turn a profit on PS3, the company as a whole is hurting right now) & that is exactly why MS would release a new console, because they can afford it and Sony can't. MS's goal is to push Sony out of the game for livingroom dominance. A new console would provide just the hype thats necessary to kick Sony while they are down.

Nintendo has the most room to grow, and a WiiHD during Xmas 2011 which is basically a Wii that can handle 720p without issue... basically a 360 level Wii.

Nintendo has no reason to rush & Sony would love to put on the brakes, but MS is gonna force Sony's hand and Nintendo's been holding one hand behind its back the whole time.

[Stratos]

Imagine the chaos, confusion and general all-around pandemonium that would ensue if Nintendo announced an HDWii. I know not now and not at this E3, but in a year or two, especially if the Wii continues to slump in Japan like it is they might just try something like that for 2011/12.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

1.  "Riding it out" apparently works when you're profiting.  I believe MS still hasn't made up for the cumulative losses incurred since the first Xbox.  Profit is not a big deal for MS cuz they're not in it for profit (it's to block Sony), but health is still important.  Sony is badly in need of positive $$$.  When's the time to stop riding and take action?  Make a significant, costly impact to your current platform concept or take a costly dive in bringing the next platform now?

2.  If there's so many great third party games in the HD yard, why aren't YOU buying them?  I'll tell you what Sony and MS are shitting bricks about not having:  the amount of customers Wii has.  And that leads to...

3.  We might not need a "next gen" soon, because Nintendo doesn't need it... However Sony and MS may need it.  A perspective that's hilarious:  Sony and MS are the ones who need to sell ANOTHER WHOPPING GENERATIONS's worth of "high end consoles" to catch up to (or beat) Wii's sales to this date.   I know it's not realistic to compete with a "last generation" install base but it was important to them to lead the way in the movement for a modern "high end gaming" ``standard`` of handicapped living room PCs,  but laffo, the standard is now Balancing Soccer Grandmas.  They'll have to "ride it out" just to fulfill the Bell-curve life cycle to justify bringing new platforms.  But they're not in the best position to ride it out, Nintendo is.  What if Wii rides it out?  (and they probably will!)  Look at the sales:  there is no one "bubble" to burst cuz each bubble grows a new tumor bubble, and the competition can't keep up dealing with the older bubble, unaware there's always a tumor bubble growing in succession.

By suggesting Wii get a next-gen successor to "catch up" to PS3/360 features, are you seriously telling us that another hardware generation is just defined by shinier graphics, more bots, and extra storage space?  Is that what it boils down to?  "IAN WANTS "MODERN" GAMES.  IAN WON'T BUY "MODERN" SYSTEM.  IAN WHINES ABOUT NOT HAVING "MODERN" GAMES." WTF!

[Ian Sane]

Nintendo has the most room to grow, and a WiiHD during Xmas 2011 which is basically a Wii that can handle 720p without issue... basically a 360 level Wii.

This is why we'll get another generation from the other consoles.  If Nintendo holds on to the number one spot and then releases a console that actually can compete hardware-wise with the other consoles then Sony and MS lose what is by far their biggest advantage.  The huge hardware gap is their only advantage over the Wii.  So they have to ensure that Nintendo is a step behind.

But I don't think WE as gamers need one.  MS might choose to go further but I don't think at this point we need to.  The graphic detail is such that the effort to make better graphics couldn't possibly be cost effective.  We're arguably at the point where games with really knock-out graphics are too expensive to make anyway.  The is the first time I can think of where the idea of games being too expensive to make has ever been a realistic issue.  So to push that further would be idiocy.  I don't think last gen is where we should have stopped like Nintendo seems to think but we can support HD now and our consoles are online and we've got motion controls now (adding them doesn't need a new console).  Until we get to virtual reality where's the requirement to go further?  Last gen at least we could say that our consoles couldn't make use of HD and didn't have fully developed online models and had visuals that didn't match up to PC games.  Right now what requirements are the current consoles (minus the Wii of course) not meeting to necessitate new hardware?

If there's so many great third party games in the HD yard, why aren't YOU buying them?

Well I don't have a PS3 or Xbox 360 so why would I buy games for a console I don't own?  I'm giving Nintendo a chance to retain my loyalty with this E3... and the other consoles are pretty expensive and I want a damn price cut.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Bah, OK I'll hold off a bit until after E3, if I'm not banned.

Just realize an HD Wii will only be a GameCube 3.11 for Workgroups (LAN enabled to coincide with new LAN games).

[Louieturkey]

360 Gamer is $200, cheaper then a Wii.  Ian has no excuse now about price.  What's the next excuse? Probably about the HDD though it is not required to play 98% of 360 games.

[Stratos]

Bah, OK I'll hold off a bit until after E3, if I'm not banned.

Just realize an HD Wii will only be a GameCube 3.11 for Workgroups (LAN enabled to coincide with new LAN games).

LAN games won't work because Nintendo made the firewall to restrictive 

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

E3 stands for the "Electronic Entertainment Expo."

I'd better be freaking ENTERTAINED.

I hope:
1.  Sony and MS announce new motion controls and show how horribly bad they implement them.
2.  3rd parties show new, interesting Lotion Puss game projects.  I'm not interested in existing long-running main-series franchise crap (the way 3rd parties handled them make them lost causes), I want to see new ideas and experiences.
3.  Nintendo shows off their key franchise properties (Mario, Pikmin, Zelda; Metroid is no more, mind you), ruining them thru casualization.  All those Pretendo fans will abandon ship and cry themselves to sleep.  Glorious Day.
4.  Nintendo will open up LAN for partner projects.  Imagine Horsez' equivalent to The Conduit in an Animal Crossing type game will probably make use of it.

I expect to see hilarity and chaos on all platform fronts.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

360 Gamer is $200, cheaper then a Wii.  Ian has no excuse now about price.  What's the next excuse? Probably about the HDD though it is not required to play 98% of 360 games.

Oh my, is that a sign that Wii has greater VALUE than a modern video game system?

[Mop it up]

There had better be at least one new Mario game announced at E3 or a certain mop-obsessed forumer will not be happy.

Mario Party used to be a yearly release, where's Mario Party 9 already? It's bad enough I had to go through 2006 without one, but then 2008 went by, and now we're almost halfway through 2009 and still nothing. Get with the program, Hudson!

What is Camelot working on these days? They should sign on for a new Mario Golf and Tennis game. The Wiilease of Mario Power Tennis on Wii is not good enough because it wasn't designed with Wii in mind. However, it gives a glimpse of how good the game could be on Wii, so a sequel is warranted. Throw in some new courts and characters, add in some minigames designed around the Wiimote, and toss in online play, and that's one heck of a sequel. Ditto for Mario Golf. They'd probably throw in Wii Motion Plus support to try and sell that thing too, but if Tiger Woods '10 is any indication, it should be optional.

How about a Wii sequel to Mario Hoops? They could probably come up with a creative control scheme using the Wiimote's IR pointer, and the multiplayer alone would give it much more value than the DS original. I don't think it sold very well though so this is quite unlikely.

Maybe some other sport which Mario and co. haven't tackled yet could work. I don't know, I'm not a game designer, it isn't my job to think of these things.

There will probably be more details on Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games, but I hope that isn't all in the way of Mario on Wii.

[Stratos]

Maybe some other sport which Mario and co. haven't tackled yet could work. I don't know, I'm not a game designer, it isn't my job to think of these things.

I think you've already thought of one: American Football. Even Rugby would be interesting and have more of a global appeal.

[King of Twitch]

I don't care about HD, so is it too much to ask for games with trees that aren't cookie cutouts? Give me arbor sculptural individualism or give me death

[NWR_insanolord]

There had better be at least one new Mario game announced at E3 or a certain mop-obsessed forumer will not be happy.

Mario Party used to be a yearly release, where's Mario Party 9 already? It's bad enough I had to go through 2006 without one, but then 2008 went by, and now we're almost halfway through 2009 and still nothing. Get with the program, Hudson!

What is Camelot working on these days? They should sign on for a new Mario Golf and Tennis game. The Wiilease of Mario Power Tennis on Wii is not good enough because it wasn't designed with Wii in mind. However, it gives a glimpse of how good the game could be on Wii, so a sequel is warranted. Throw in some new courts and characters, add in some minigames designed around the Wiimote, and toss in online play, and that's one heck of a sequel. Ditto for Mario Golf. They'd probably throw in Wii Motion Plus support to try and sell that thing too, but if Tiger Woods '10 is any indication, it should be optional.

How about a Wii sequel to Mario Hoops? They could probably come up with a creative control scheme using the Wiimote's IR pointer, and the multiplayer alone would give it much more value than the DS original. I don't think it sold very well though so this is quite unlikely.

Maybe some other sport which Mario and co. haven't tackled yet could work. I don't know, I'm not a game designer, it isn't my job to think of these things.

There will probably be more details on Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games, but I hope that isn't all in the way of Mario on Wii.

I've been thinking lately that we're about due for another Mario Party, having had 2 years without one. Hopefully in that time they revamped the series as it was getting a bit stale. It's too bad that they can't focus too much on MotionPlus because I think that could make for some great minigames.

Of course, the Mario game I really want is Super Mario Galaxy: The Lost Levels.

[Stratos]

I wonder if that is part of it. Motion Plus comes out in June so this holiday they release a Motion Plus specific Mario Party to supplement people buying WSR. Of course it could be played w/o the M+ but having a good two dozen mini-games included that activated if you had M+ plugged in could be a great way to ease people into using it.

I am in love with your idea of a SMG: Lost Levels title. Or even one where you made a bunch of those bonus levels from Mario Sunshine where Mario was w/o his squirt gun.

[NWR_insanolord]

The way I see MotionPlus being implemented in MP9 is like the Microphone in MP6, a lot of 1 vs. 3 minigames with the 1 player using MotionPlus.

Oh, and the other Mario game I want is a WiiWare game full of a bunch of levels like the ones in Galaxy with Mario in a bubble and you use the pointer to blow him around. I loved those and really wished there were more.

[Mop it up]

I think you've already thought of one: American Football. Even Rugby would be interesting and have more of a global appeal.

The only worry I have with that idea is that it could be too rough (see: Mario Strikers).

I've been thinking lately that we're about due for another Mario Party, having had 2 years without one. Hopefully in that time they revamped the series as it was getting a bit stale. It's too bad that they can't focus too much on MotionPlus because I think that could make for some great minigames.

I don't think they need to go with Wii Motion Plus with Mario Party 9, there are still many advancements they could make using current Wii features, such as things which they could do with the Wiimote + Nunchuk combination since MP8 used only the Wiimote. Requiring 4 Wii Motion Plus accessories so soon after its launch is quite a hurdle, but after all of this time many people have as many Nunchuks as Wiimotes. Save Wii Motion Plus for the eventual Mario Party 10.

The way I see MotionPlus being implemented in MP9 is like the Microphone in MP6, a lot of 1 vs. 3 minigames with the 1 player using MotionPlus.

That's interesting, and could definitely work, as well as "pass  the controller" games like the "pass the mic" games in MP7.

Oh, and the other Mario game I want is a WiiWare game full of a bunch of levels like the ones in Galaxy with Mario in a bubble and you use the pointer to blow him around. I loved those and really wished there were more.

When I played that the first time, I thought "this would make an awesome Mario Party minigame". It needs to be multiplayer because it just isn't as fun with nobody around to laugh at your failing miserably at it.