Author Topic: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'  (Read 75927 times)

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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #450 on: August 19, 2009, 11:22:07 PM »

Offline EasyCure

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #451 on: August 20, 2009, 05:37:50 AM »
Can someone animate a GIF of Mario jumping up to hit a brick block and hemorrhaging? That'd probably be more appropriate..

RAB said it best by the way, though Deg has a good argument as well. Personally, I don't see this as arrogance at all because I understand that E3 is a BUSINESS TRADE SHOW and not a public gaming convention. Sure its exciting because we all know new games get announced at this type of thing but you gotta take the good with the bad and thats usually business talk. Anyone that thinks otherwise is probably like the type of person that sees a celebrity across the street having dinner, runs over and asks for an autograph, causes a scene then goes around calling the guy a snob because he didn't get an autograph or a picture with him.

Didn't Nintendo do piecharts and **** even during the GC era to show they were still making profit despite being in "3rd place"? Why do you think they'd do that by the way? Oh thats right, so investors can see there is still money to be made with them. They're just doing the same thing any business does, at a business event, so why get pissy cuz you had false expectations of what would happen at a trade show?
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Offline Nick DiMola

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #452 on: August 20, 2009, 06:15:57 AM »
RABicle is exactly right. Having been to E3, it was obvious that much of the conference is dedicated to standard industry conference type stuff. As a bystander all you really see are the parts that the gaming industry is interested in, thus making it appear as something it is not.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2009, 06:19:21 AM by Mr. Jack »
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Offline EasyCure

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #453 on: August 20, 2009, 06:43:32 AM »
RABicle is exactly right. Having been to E3, it was obvious that much of the conference is dedicated to standard industry conference type stuff. As a bystander all you really see are the parts that the gaming industry is interested in, thus making it appear as something it is not.

See, now you've heard it from an attendee themselves. Not sure how E3 ballooned into this major event, but man i wish it were scaled back.. again.
February 07, 2003, 02:35:52 PM
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #454 on: August 20, 2009, 07:13:10 AM »
RABicle is exactly right. Having been to E3, it was obvious that much of the conference is dedicated to standard industry conference type stuff. As a bystander all you really see are the parts that the gaming industry is interested in, thus making it appear as something it is not.

See, now you've heard it from an attendee themselves. Not sure how E3 ballooned into this major event, but man i wish it were scaled back.. again.

They tried that already. They tried to scale it back because it was becoming too much about what the fanboys(and their publications of choice) wanted to see instead of industry insiders making contacts and getting to see each others work. They down-sized and did invite only events, even split it up into smaller venues to keep out the Gamestop employees and random show attendees, but E3 almost died.

Offline Peachylala

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #455 on: August 20, 2009, 09:32:09 AM »
E3 almost died, but from what the gaming media has shown us, it would've buried E3 in a massive crater.

RABicle is exactly right. Having been to E3, it was obvious that much of the conference is dedicated to standard industry conference type stuff. As a bystander all you really see are the parts that the gaming industry is interested in, thus making it appear as something it is not.
I think it's hilarious we're complaining about a business portion of a conference.

Win.
 
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Offline Nick DiMola

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #456 on: August 20, 2009, 10:34:01 AM »
I wasn't complaining, I was explaining. I love the business side of the convention and I thought it was interesting to see the behind-closed-doors aspect of the industry in person.

D_Average seems to think it's odd that Nintendo would boast numbers, but nearly everyone who was actually in Club Nokia for Nintendo's Press Conference were investors/business people, not journalists. The entire downstairs portion in front of the stage was reserved for them. Us journalists lucky enough to be in the theater (very few) were relegated to the upper balcony. Most journalists were stuck watching it from a different building on giant TV screens.
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Offline Peachylala

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #457 on: August 20, 2009, 10:37:58 AM »
Oh, really? That's insightful. I find it hard to tell the difference between an insightful paragraph and whining, but I blame the casual crap and Highly Dramatic generation for that.

Still think the brick wall needs something to it.
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Offline NWR_DrewMG

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #458 on: August 20, 2009, 10:52:17 AM »
When you turn HD into an acronym referring to people who complain too much...

you complain too much.
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Offline EasyCure

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #459 on: August 20, 2009, 11:08:30 AM »
RABicle is exactly right. Having been to E3, it was obvious that much of the conference is dedicated to standard industry conference type stuff. As a bystander all you really see are the parts that the gaming industry is interested in, thus making it appear as something it is not.

See, now you've heard it from an attendee themselves. Not sure how E3 ballooned into this major event, but man i wish it were scaled back.. again.

They tried that already. They tried to scale it back because it was becoming too much about what the fanboys(and their publications of choice) wanted to see instead of industry insiders making contacts and getting to see each others work. They down-sized and did invite only events, even split it up into smaller venues to keep out the Gamestop employees and random show attendees, but E3 almost died.

Well maybe it'd be for the best if it died. This way a new trade show can take its places thats strictly business, and a new gaming convention can go up and be heralded as the "NEW" "E3". Maybe then some people will stop complaining when sales figures are discussed, since they won't hear about 'em.
February 07, 2003, 02:35:52 PM
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #460 on: August 20, 2009, 11:15:44 AM »
let them cry, let them bitch, let them complain. Just let them do whatever they want, as long as it's on the other side of that brick wall.

Fact: E3 isn't for us.
If some people want to complain that E3 isn't giving them enough of what they want, then they are at the wrong event. Just because E3 Insiders have been generous enough to let us participate(through media outlets) because of our ravenous interest in any news about any game that we could get our hands on, doesn't make E3 anymore for us that it was originally intended to be.

So let those that forget where we stand, sit on the other side of the wall.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2009, 12:48:36 PM by BlackNMild2k1 »

Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #461 on: August 20, 2009, 12:01:10 PM »
Way to strawman my argument guys. Is this what you must do to defend your lover?  Pathetic.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #462 on: August 20, 2009, 12:12:59 PM »
let them cry, let them bitch, let them complain. Just let them do whatever they want, as long as it's on the other side of that brick wall.

Fact: E3 isn't for us.
If some people want to complain that E3 isn't giving them enough of what they want, then they are at the wrong even. Just because E3 Insiders have been generous enough to let us participate(through media outlets) because of our ravenous interest in any news about any game that we could get our hands on, doesn't make E3 anymore for us that it was originally intended to be.

So let those that forget where we stand, sit on the other side of the wall.

Well, if E3 isn't for us (and there's certainly a valid argument made there), what is?  There are other conventions out there (PAX, Comic-con, etc.), but the industry hasn't made any effort to establish or promote a public-centric gaming convention equivalent of E3 where we can just revel in how awesome videogames are and have the big announcements, etc.  I just have to wonder what the point of having a big convention devoted to business is when you can just hold a stockholder's meeting/conference and get nearly the same result: bragging about sales numbers, stating your plans as a company for the future, and unveiling your big money-growing products for the future.  And that would all be targeted at the people who need to see such things, and would be viewed by the people who care about such things the most.

But you look at E3, and it tries to play it both ways and neither seems to work well with the other.  We the public don't generally care about sales figures and whatnot, but we watch E3 to see the unveiling of the next line of cool games we want to play.  The people there to see what they need to invest in don't care about all the theatrics and spectacle, so why have them there when E3 is intended for them and not us?  I have to agree with an above poster that the conference needs to be split in two, one catering to the public and one the private.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #463 on: August 20, 2009, 01:07:57 PM »
E3 is designed for the industry to come together all at one event and share their products and vision with each other. Having a stock holder meeting is very limited in scope and interaction and wouldn't work the same. That's how they downsized it to be like a few years back. It didn't work.

All the booth are set up so that Developers and Publishers can see what the competition is working on so they can trade ideas, collaborate on projects or just get inspired for their next product. Also most of the industry people are gamers themselves and fans of other peoples work, so they want to play these games just as much as we do.

E3 is an industry event that they let the gaming public into for better or for worse. The theatrics are to entertain themselves and to draw more press as these conferences aren't free to attend. They have to pay for space, pay for their set up, and pay for their employees to be there. The theatrics are to make sure they "journalist" pay attention to their booth and cover as many of their games as possible in whatever publication it is they work for. That is how they recoup some of the cost is through the free advertising which leads to product awareness and then more game sales.

When you separate everything into a bunch of mini conferences spread out allover the city, that complicates things and everything becomes a hassle. Ideas aren't being shared and the press is having to work harder to cover everything they were sent there to cover.

Why does Nintendo hold a big conference and talk about sales numbers mixed in with the game announcements and ideas they have for where they are headed in the future?
Because not only are they talking to their investors (which they have private stock holder meeting with) but to all the publishers and developers out there that are wondering why they should bother with a Nintendo console, what kind of ideas there are for games on the Nintendo consoles, how Nintendo is supporting their own console, and to somehow make this whole presentation entertaining in the process.

I'm gonna stop typing here since I'm losing my train of thought and this post is already much longer than I anticipated it being.

Offline broodwars

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #464 on: August 20, 2009, 01:27:49 PM »
The thing is, we already have a conference dedicated to the whole "sharing of ideas" and whatnot: the Game Developer Conference (GDC).  Why do we need E3 for that as well, especially when it's only a few months after it right now.?
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Offline thatguy

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #465 on: August 20, 2009, 01:35:54 PM »
I think they made some mistakes this year, and some last year, and a large amount of mistakes piled up all the years before:

E3 was meant for two things, if what I've read about it's history is correct:  The media to pick up all that's new and unfolding in the electronic entertainment industry, and for video game retailers to decide and order merchandise for their stores in bulk, as information appears on the merchandise, specifically the Fall and Winter hardware and software.

I've been to a couple of trade shows before, nothing near the scale of E3, though interestingly enough, one in the same place PAX is now held, but for medicine.  I can see that at the core, the idea behind the two is supposed to be the same, but what you see with E3 doesn't exactly do it's duty:

Imagine you're at the supermarket, and all the Coke products are in one area.  Now, all the Pepsi is right by it, in another.  Pringles has a spot, so does Prego, so does Heinz, so does pretty much every brand name.  Now, imagine you're buying almost all the groceries you'll need for a year, and Coke wants you to sign up (at a slightly lower, but noticeable rate) to drink a certain about of their soda from now until the end of the year.  Pepsi wants the same thing.  All of the sections in the grocery store want you to do that.  So they do whatever it takes to get your attention, in hopes it'll phase your choices.  They offer free samples, have games with prizes, give away popcorn, whatever it takes to get their audience's attention, to order their product in mass numbers.

That's what I'd describe a tradeshow as, in my experience.  Only, E3 has a few detractors:  Due to the nature of the industry, people get excited about new news, and so reporters are necessary.  In one way, you kill two birds with one stone by attracting reporters and the people who sell the actual retail product at once.  On the other hand, the salesman is trying to figure out a specific number of units to pick up, while the reporter is trying to capture more and more buzz about what's going on.  How do you figure out which is more important?  It's too tough to manage.

What should be done?  Perhaps the event should have two sections:  A show section and a trade section.  The show section would have demo units, lines, and opportunities to watch video and play demos of games.  One Day 1 and 2, retailers have access to this section.  On days 3 and 4, reporters do.  Then, the second section would be the trade section, and would offer similar service to both groups.  Reporters begin here, and can give interviews, ask questions, and watch developers and publishers show off particular "niche" moments of their games, things that couldn't easily be done in a video or demo.  Then, retailers come in, and they can ask questions, barter prices, watch those niche moments, and decide what to order, ultimately.

This allows the media a chance to get all the ooohing and aaahing without being too bothered by retailers, and the retailers a chance to really figure things out in what could be an efficient process.  You'll have all the space and all the opportunity that's had the way things are now, but on the "Trade" section, retailers have to put some effort into seeking out what they liked or wanted to know more about the day before.

Of course, I don't know much about the trade part of the show at E3, as it stands, but if mixing the two doesn't work, separating them, but maintaining the look, feel, and spectacle of E3 shouldn't be too tough, I wouldn't think.

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #466 on: August 20, 2009, 01:44:42 PM »
The thing is, we already have a conference dedicated to the whole "sharing of ideas" and whatnot: the Game Developer Conference (GDC).  Why do we need E3 for that as well, especially when it's only a few months after it right now.?

It's a big industry....? & E3 does allow for big booths and some public interaction, but it's not for the public. The Public interaction and need to please is why E3 got too big in the first place. Bigger booths were needed to draw more attention, which meant companies were spending so much on their booth to out-do the next guy so they could attract the attention of the fanboys that the whole expo was losing focus of why everyone was there to begin with.

I don't know all the specifics and details, but the E3 of today is alot different than what it was intended to be.

edit: Thanx thatguy. I knew I forgot someone. The Retailers, that's how all the gamestop employees started getting in. It's a Developer Publisher Retailer event. vs GDC being just for the Developer/Publishers.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2009, 01:48:29 PM by BlackNMild2k1 »

Offline thatguy

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #467 on: August 20, 2009, 01:54:18 PM »
Actually, BNM, the big booths and flash to draw attention is something that would be pretty static, regardless of the public and the media's interaction.  We're constantly reminded how little, private events with media invited can actually work better to share information about a game.  The big booths and fanfare probably originated in an attempt to draw in buyers, to tell the truth.  Both tradeshows I've been to have tried using bigger booths, more machines, TVs, prizes, games, freebies, and whatnot to attract buyers, and there was virtually no press at the event.

The ESA's job should really be to regulate that, and make things more or less fair, so that a developer who sells an average of $X gets fanfare proportional to that amount.  That's why I suggest slowing things down, so everyone gets a chance to try to sell (though the amount of time should be proportionate to the amount of product being pushed,) but how things are now, things become overlooked.

Offline Deguello

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #468 on: August 20, 2009, 07:44:03 PM »
Quote
Dude.  Ask your self this.  Why is it so hard for you to admit Nintendo is arrogant right now?  I can.  I've owned every major console by them and I have no problem critizing them.  Just as I have no problem criticizing Sony or Pizza Hut.

Immaterial to discussion.  Your assumptions of arrogance do not translate to actual arrogance, nor does your presumption of fact translate into actual fact.

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The whole point of the original article was that Nintendo is annoying as hell right now in the fact that they are not delivering that goods we want while pretending they are and constantly reminding gamers how well their systems are selling.  This is great news for investors but gamers could care less. 

Who the hell's "we" dude?  Just because some people play video games and use the internet doesn't mean they are all one lumped group.  Nintendo HAS been "delivering" the "goods" to the majority of gamers this generation as evidenced by their high software and hardware sales, on both the DS and Wii.  And they haven't "abandoned the hardcore," no matter what this retarded press hysteria says about it.  And yeah they were all reminding gamers how well they were selling at E3.  BUT THEY WERE ALSO REMINDING INVESTORS AND BUSINESS RELATED PEOPLE, WHO ARE ALSO AT E3. (I am typing in all caps, because I hope the third time is the charm and you will understand it this time.)

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Knowing that Wii Play is in the top ten doesn't make that broken "game" any more fun.  Its really that simple.  I know I'm not the only one on this board who spends more time with their 360 and/or PS3 simply because Nintendo's lineup over the last 18 months has been less than steller.

This is also immaterial to the discussion, because it has nothing to do with your assertion of "arrogance," and is merely your console preferences and an appeal to numbers.  And since that's the case:


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Looking at your posts here and your last few posts today on other threads it seems pretty clear you're just another Nintendo Apologist.  Unless you're getting paid for this gig as a two bit shill, why do you spend so much energy spinning stories in Nintendo's favor?

Ad hominem.

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They are a video game company.  Its perfectly acceptable to take shots at them while enjoying the games that interest you.  This is what they do on Radio Free Nintendo.  Its really ok.

So?  If they say this, that Nintendo is "arrogant" because they talk about sales numbers at Business-related trade shows (this is an extra attempt.  Please, PLEASE understand this), then they are wrong and no matter how many times or how many people said it.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asch_conformity_experiments

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Continue down this road, and you'll end up with a strong case of objectum sexuality like that hack Sean Malstrom and Jack from Infendo.  Hell, you probably are Jack and Sean.

Objectum Sexuality?  Look if you are going to dabble in the Psychological field, please don't just throw terms around like you just googled them.  It makes you look like a big ass who has no idea what he's talking about.  Objectum Sexuality has nothing to do with Fan Loyalty or Bandwagon effect or BIRGing and CORFing, which are all relevant to this case.  However it says a lot about your state of mind that you thought of Objectum Sexuality first.  Whatever floats your boat I guess.

Quote
Way to strawman my argument guys. Is this what you must do to defend your lover?  Pathetic.

It's very rare to see on the internet, but D Average has actually stumbled upon a textbook case of
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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #469 on: August 20, 2009, 09:07:49 PM »
Your post looks nice, but it just doesn't work.  First off, I never said E3 shouldn't be used to communicate success.  I simply stated the way  Nintendo communicated success at E3 is arrogant.  This is just one example from many I could choose from to explain why I believe Nintendo has became arrogant again (as they were during the N64 era).  In order to defend your boyfriend, you changed my argument to "Nintedo is arrogant because they talked about money at E3." 

Second, you started with the ad hominems, so I threw a couple back.  So now you're self righteous all of the sudden?  Girl please.  Irony or hypocrite, take your pick.

As far as objectum sexuality, thats a term I've known well for a long time (just because you had to Google it, doesn't mean the rest of us did).  Its sounds like you're having trouble understanding it.  Its when a seemingly normal person falls in love with inadament objects.  Given the way you ruthlessly defend Nintendo on every thread, its quite plausable to assume you have such a loving/personal relationship with Nintedo products, which are by definition, "inadament objects", get it???

But I'm gong to stop here.  No matter what I say, nothing will change your mind as you are the gaming equivalent of Fred Phelps.  Sure, there are others in your flock, who think the same way, waggling together in one happy circle.  But its a small circle.  A lunatic-fringe-conspiracy-obsessed segment of the gaming population who will fight to the death over their corporation of choice, while the rest of us enjoy all systems and rip on them equally.
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Offline Deguello

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #470 on: August 20, 2009, 10:13:11 PM »
Quote
Your post looks nice, but it just doesn't work.  First off, I never said E3 shouldn't be used to communicate success.  I simply stated the way  Nintendo communicated success at E3 is arrogant.  This is just one example from many I could choose from to explain why I believe Nintendo has became arrogant again (as they were during the N64 era).  In order to defend your boyfriend, you changed my argument to "Nintedo is arrogant because they talked about money at E3."

Blah blah, nothing new, more insults.

Quote
Second, you started with the ad hominems, so I threw a couple back.  So now you're self righteous all of the sudden?  Girl please.  Irony or hypocrite, take your pick.

Que?  I hope you don't mean my repeated pleas for you to understand that E3 is a business-related show.  Or where I made a hypothetical Nintendo press conference insult you personally as an exaggerated example of the "offense" taken by press shows that talk about sales numbers for a bit and mention that they have motion controls.  Because otherwise, I've treated your arguments with more respect than they really deserve.

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As far as objectum sexuality, thats a term I've known well for a long time

Yeah I'll bet.

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Its sounds like you're having trouble understanding it.  Its when a seemingly normal person falls in love with inadament objects.  Given the way you ruthlessly defend Nintendo on every thread, its quite plausable to assume you have such a loving/personal relationship with Nintedo products, which are by definition, "inadament objects", get it???

Look, piss-ant, I'm getting a BA in Psychology and working on a Master's Degree.  You have no idea what you are talking about.  "Inadement" object?  I'm sure you mean inanimate object.  The object in question would be a Wii or a DS and that would be the target of the sexual energies.  Liking Nintendo... as a company, would not be Objectum Sexuality.  Because they are a company, a group, a fandom, a development team, an ideal, and an idea.  Not an actual object, like a Wii, or a stone, or a bridge, of which the relevancy of whether Nintendo is involved is not a factor.

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But I'm gong to stop here.  No matter what I say, nothing will change your mind as you are the gaming equivalent of Fred Phelps.  Sure, there are others in your flock, who think the same way, waggling together in one happy circle.  But its a small circle.  A lunatic-fringe-conspiracy-obsessed segment of the gaming population who will fight to the death over their corporation of choice, while the rest of us enjoy all systems and rip on them equally.

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Offline Infernal Monkey

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #471 on: August 20, 2009, 10:17:43 PM »

Offline Peachylala

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #472 on: August 20, 2009, 10:19:30 PM »
Come here to see more arguments, and Infernal drops this.

Infernal, you win.
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Offline Deguello

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #473 on: August 20, 2009, 10:33:32 PM »
Well Arguments should be over.  That lunatic said he'd leave, so I'd hate for him to be a hypocrite and post again.

In fact, I can even link this back to the topic by saying he's a victim of believing a "media narrative," which is a set story that all you need to do is fill in the nouns and go, like Mad Libs. So he bought into the idea that "pride goeth before a fall" and that Company X will get successful, get arrogant, and fall, just because that's the "media narrative" of Sony with the PS3 and Nintendo with the N64 (he even mentions that.)  Yet he became more unraveled as his ideas of "arrogance" didn't mesh with the general public's, and this created cognitive dissonance where the new data conflicted with his presumptions.  He, then, had to choose between changing his beliefs or continuing to believe this "media narrative." He chose the latter which resulted in the application of insults as defense mechanisms and appeals to higher authority (escapistmagazine) as a technique of neutralization for being wrong.  (BTW, this is bonafide Psychology work, D Average, not throwing words around without understanding them.)

And this could be laid at the video game media's feet for chasing media narratives instead of just reporting the objective news.  He's just another unfortunate soul on the internet.
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Offline Peachylala

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #474 on: August 21, 2009, 09:46:06 AM »
Well, that's the internet, stupidity thrives in this god-forsaken realm.

I would one day like to analyze Matt's review of Wii Music, but I don't think I have the stomach to handle outright stupidity.

And that includes his Sonic and the Black Knight review.
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