Author Topic: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'  (Read 75937 times)

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Offline broodwars

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #400 on: July 19, 2009, 04:24:10 PM »
I would point out as Devil's Advocate, though, that just as people claim a bias against the Wii in the media, I'd argue that that the bar has been set so low on Wii software that we've actually seen Wii grade inflation.  Take the reviews for Madworld, for instance.  In quite a few of them there's a tone of "well, this game has problems but we're going to give it a high score because it's on the Wii."  Madworld has its moments and can be a generally-enjoyable experience (when the camera isn't pissing me off and I haven't yet gotten bored of the combat), but a 9+ ?  Really?  I'd argue that we've seen a similar effect with Conduit scores, where there's a lot of "well, this game isn't all that great, but because it's on the Wii and there's nothing else quite like it on the platform, we're going to give it a pass because it's a first step for Wii 3rd parties.

So I think the Wii's created a parodoxical situation in the press with the way Nintendo has handled its library: on the one hand, you have some who use the Wii's erratic library as an excuse to attack it for not being like the other consoles...and then on the other, you have some who use the Wii's erratic library as an excuse to over-hype games that don't deserve it just because they're better than the usual dreck and Wii gamers "just don't know better".  I'm rather curious which faction will win in the end.
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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #401 on: July 19, 2009, 06:02:58 PM »
Of course the problem is the same, regardless of what direction it perturbs the results, and on every platform:  reviewers often hardly seem to look at the game at all, but use every review as a tool to advance what ever pathetic agenda they have.  You can usually predict what they'll say years in advance based on whatever fanboy cult they belong to.

NWR reviews excepted of course (not being sarcastic -- the reviews on here are a refreshing breath of reality in the wacky bizarro world of game-review posturing).

Offline KDR_11k

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #402 on: July 25, 2009, 02:10:12 PM »
I don't think The Conduit got inflated scores. Madworld, yes. What I think does happen is that many reviewers get strongly influenced by presentation, a well presented game that's just not terribly interesting to play (MaBoShi) gets high scores while many games that get described as fun but offer a bad presentation are called guilty pleasures by the reviewers and given a low score along with a purchase recommendation. Reviewers seem to disconnect the fun from the final score which seems to be more based on the "complete package", no matter how relevant the rest of that package actually is. A game is not "objectively" good or bad, that's rating it by technical merits. A game's purpose is to create a certain emotional response within the user to grant him entertainment and many games succeed at it despite "objectively" being low quality.

In other words, never call a game a guilty pleasure, recognize that it is a good game.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #403 on: July 25, 2009, 02:15:46 PM »
I don't think The Conduit got inflated scores. Madworld, yes. What I think does happen is that many reviewers get strongly influenced by presentation, a well presented game that's just not terribly interesting to play (MaBoShi) gets high scores while many games that get described as fun but offer a bad presentation are called guilty pleasures by the reviewers and given a low score along with a purchase recommendation. Reviewers seem to disconnect the fun from the final score which seems to be more based on the "complete package", no matter how relevant the rest of that package actually is. A game is not "objectively" good or bad, that's rating it by technical merits. A game's purpose is to create a certain emotional response within the user to grant him entertainment and many games succeed at it despite "objectively" being low quality.

In other words, never call a game a guilty pleasure, recognize that it is a good game.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #404 on: July 25, 2009, 07:05:38 PM »
I don't think The Conduit got inflated scores. Madworld, yes. What I think does happen is that many reviewers get strongly influenced by presentation, a well presented game that's just not terribly interesting to play (MaBoShi) gets high scores while many games that get described as fun but offer a bad presentation are called guilty pleasures by the reviewers and given a low score along with a purchase recommendation. Reviewers seem to disconnect the fun from the final score which seems to be more based on the "complete package", no matter how relevant the rest of that package actually is. A game is not "objectively" good or bad, that's rating it by technical merits. A game's purpose is to create a certain emotional response within the user to grant him entertainment and many games succeed at it despite "objectively" being low quality.

In other words, never call a game a guilty pleasure, recognize that it is a good game.

You don't think The Conduit got inflated scores?  I was just listening to a 1up podcast (ListenUp) the other day regarding the Conduit and they spoke to the game's reviewer for the site.  They asked him what he thought of the game, and he said "it's a good shooter for the Wii."  One of the other guys pressed him on this asking "strip away the 'Wii' part and is it a good 'shooter'."  "No" was his reply (he would later go on to quantify this).  Even though the reviewer gave the game a C+, it sounds like he let predisposed notions of the platform's capabilities and its audience influence his impressions of the game.  I also have a hard time believing that the IGN crew were unbiased with the Conduit's scores considering that they have been drooling over that game ever since it was announced.  Hell, they even have their names in the frickin' credits under the "Special Thanks" section.
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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #405 on: July 25, 2009, 07:30:10 PM »
I don't think The Conduit got inflated scores. Madworld, yes. What I think does happen is that many reviewers get strongly influenced by presentation, a well presented game that's just not terribly interesting to play (MaBoShi) gets high scores while many games that get described as fun but offer a bad presentation are called guilty pleasures by the reviewers and given a low score along with a purchase recommendation. Reviewers seem to disconnect the fun from the final score which seems to be more based on the "complete package", no matter how relevant the rest of that package actually is. A game is not "objectively" good or bad, that's rating it by technical merits. A game's purpose is to create a certain emotional response within the user to grant him entertainment and many games succeed at it despite "objectively" being low quality.

In other words, never call a game a guilty pleasure, recognize that it is a good game.

You don't think The Conduit got inflated scores?  I was just listening to a 1up podcast (ListenUp) the other day regarding the Conduit and they spoke to the game's reviewer for the site.  They asked him what he thought of the game, and he said "it's a good shooter for the Wii."  One of the other guys pressed him on this asking "strip away the 'Wii' part and is it a good 'shooter'."  "No" was his reply (he would later go on to quantify this).  Even though the reviewer gave the game a C+, it sounds like he let predisposed notions of the platform's capabilities and its audience influence his impressions of the game.  I also have a hard time believing that the IGN crew were unbiased with the Conduit's scores considering that they have been drooling over that game ever since it was announced.  Hell, they even have their names in the frickin' credits under the "Special Thanks" section.

If he really said that, it sounds like he did inflate it, as good does not equal C+.   Wasn't that Garnett who reviewed it?
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Offline broodwars

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #406 on: July 25, 2009, 07:35:01 PM »
I don't think The Conduit got inflated scores. Madworld, yes. What I think does happen is that many reviewers get strongly influenced by presentation, a well presented game that's just not terribly interesting to play (MaBoShi) gets high scores while many games that get described as fun but offer a bad presentation are called guilty pleasures by the reviewers and given a low score along with a purchase recommendation. Reviewers seem to disconnect the fun from the final score which seems to be more based on the "complete package", no matter how relevant the rest of that package actually is. A game is not "objectively" good or bad, that's rating it by technical merits. A game's purpose is to create a certain emotional response within the user to grant him entertainment and many games succeed at it despite "objectively" being low quality.

In other words, never call a game a guilty pleasure, recognize that it is a good game.

You don't think The Conduit got inflated scores?  I was just listening to a 1up podcast (ListenUp) the other day regarding the Conduit and they spoke to the game's reviewer for the site.  They asked him what he thought of the game, and he said "it's a good shooter for the Wii."  One of the other guys pressed him on this asking "strip away the 'Wii' part and is it a good 'shooter'."  "No" was his reply (he would later go on to quantify this).  Even though the reviewer gave the game a C+, it sounds like he let predisposed notions of the platform's capabilities and its audience influence his impressions of the game.  I also have a hard time believing that the IGN crew were unbiased with the Conduit's scores considering that they have been drooling over that game ever since it was announced.  Hell, they even have their names in the frickin' credits under the "Special Thanks" section.

If he really said that, it sounds like he did inflate it, as good does not equal C+.   Wasn't that Garnett who reviewed it?

http://www.1up.com/do/minisite?cId=3172882

It's the 6/26/2009 episode of ListenUp, and yes Garnett Lee did review The Conduit for the site.
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Offline KDR_11k

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #407 on: July 26, 2009, 01:06:11 AM »
You don't think The Conduit got inflated scores?  I was just listening to a 1up podcast (ListenUp) the other day regarding the Conduit and they spoke to the game's reviewer for the site.  They asked him what he thought of the game, and he said "it's a good shooter for the Wii."  One of the other guys pressed him on this asking "strip away the 'Wii' part and is it a good 'shooter'."  "No" was his reply (he would later go on to quantify this).  Even though the reviewer gave the game a C+, it sounds like he let predisposed notions of the platform's capabilities and its audience influence his impressions of the game.  I also have a hard time believing that the IGN crew were unbiased with the Conduit's scores considering that they have been drooling over that game ever since it was announced.  Hell, they even have their names in the frickin' credits under the "Special Thanks" section.

IGN maybe (though I can see someone liking it a lot if they focus on the multiplayer instead of singleplayer and their connection is fine, many reviewers handled the multiplayer in one paragraph and spent the rest whining about the SP) but a C+ sounds fair. If that's inflated I think he had an unwarrantedly low oppinion of the game. Besides, "good" translates to B so it matches the language.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #408 on: July 26, 2009, 11:12:02 AM »
You don't think The Conduit got inflated scores?  I was just listening to a 1up podcast (ListenUp) the other day regarding the Conduit and they spoke to the game's reviewer for the site.  They asked him what he thought of the game, and he said "it's a good shooter for the Wii."  One of the other guys pressed him on this asking "strip away the 'Wii' part and is it a good 'shooter'."  "No" was his reply (he would later go on to quantify this).  Even though the reviewer gave the game a C+, it sounds like he let predisposed notions of the platform's capabilities and its audience influence his impressions of the game.  I also have a hard time believing that the IGN crew were unbiased with the Conduit's scores considering that they have been drooling over that game ever since it was announced.  Hell, they even have their names in the frickin' credits under the "Special Thanks" section.

IGN maybe (though I can see someone liking it a lot if they focus on the multiplayer instead of singleplayer and their connection is fine, many reviewers handled the multiplayer in one paragraph and spent the rest whining about the SP) but a C+ sounds fair. If that's inflated I think he had an unwarrantedly low oppinion of the game. Besides, "good" translates to B so it matches the language.

A certain site gave it an 8.5 as well. Not sure why IGN should be harpooned alone for "inflating" the score (funny never thought high 8s was inflating anything). Personally I really enjoy the game and while it has its flaws I can understand why some really got into it.
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Offline KDR_11k

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #409 on: July 26, 2009, 11:16:24 AM »
As I said, probably depends on how you weight the multiplayer aspect and how it works for you.

Offline NWR_Lindy

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #410 on: August 09, 2009, 05:19:51 PM »
They asked him what he thought of the game, and he said "it's a good shooter for the Wii."  One of the other guys pressed him on this asking "strip away the 'Wii' part and is it a good 'shooter'."  "No" was his reply (he would later go on to quantify this).

It's pretty obvious that whoever was asking him that question had an agenda for making the Wii look bad.  It's like they were playing a game called "Let's Keep Asking Questions Until We Get a Response that Slams the Wii".

Even though the reviewer gave the game a C+, it sounds like he let predisposed notions of the platform's capabilities and its audience influence his impressions of the game.

Uh...as a reviewer, what the hell else are you supposed to do?  I'll tell you what.  I like PS3 games.  From now on, every time I play a Nintendo DS game, I'm no longer going to score it based on how it compares to other games on the DS platform, and I'll instead compare it to my favorite PS3 games.  Sorry Dragon Quest IX, you just got a 1/10 instead of a 9/10 because you don't compare to, say, Valkyria Chronicles.

Silly example, but seriously, I hate it when people get their pitchforks and torches out for a Wii game - any Wii game - just because it doesn't do what a 360 or PS3 game does.  THE WII IS NOT A PS3 OR 360.  It can't do what those systems do.  But given what it CAN do, is a game done well?  Answer that.  Anything else is just pushing agenda.

I'm not a Wii fanboy by any stretch, but it annoys me to no end when people sit there and go out of their way to point out how inferior the Wii hardware is to PS3 and 360.  It's this little personal grudge...they feel that Wii is ruining gaming and have to vent their frustration in a passive/aggressive manner.  "See?  The Conduit isn't as good as COD4.  I KNEW IT!  I TOLD YOU SO!!"  God, grow the hell up and be professional.

/rage
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Offline Deguello

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #411 on: August 10, 2009, 10:30:35 PM »
IGN fails to even research its own premises for interview questions.

http://ds.ign.com/articles/101/1012759p1.html

It's amusing to see Matt Cassamassina get slapped around with a random fact, but this question seemed based in some sort of alternate reality where the DS is struggling or something.  Don't these guys get to look at the NPD data?  Would it have killed them to even do a little cursory MATH before asking a question rooted in "doomed Nintendo?"  Why is every press article about Nintendo always coming from this absurd standpoint that Nintendo is always in danger of being "doomed" or "a fad" or "a bubble" when just the raw numbers prove them wrong, period?
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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« Reply #412 on: August 10, 2009, 10:44:16 PM »
Quote from: IGNorant
IGN: The Nintendo DSi system seems a little slow out of the gate since its release three months ago compared to other Nintendo system launches. What sort of efforts can we expect to see leading up to the holiday season in giving the Nintendo DSi a full-blown push to the customer?

Denise Kaigler: Sorry, but I'm going to have to strongly disagree with your premise. In just three months, Nintendo DSi has sold more than 1.7 million in the United States alone, according to the NPD Group. I wouldn't call that slow at all. After three months, the original Nintendo DS had sold nearly 1.38 million and Nintendo DS Lite had sold more than 1.07 million. Even the Wii console had sold "only" about 1.52 million after three months. So Nintendo DSi is beating them all.




Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #413 on: August 10, 2009, 10:48:27 PM »
Matt got pwned, served, grilled and everything else.
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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #414 on: August 10, 2009, 11:27:42 PM »
The fact that this article got posted at all by IGN leads me to suspect that they were setting up Kaigler for a specific response (the one provided).  Unless they were speaking with regards to the advertising of the system, which in my experience has been very little.

Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #415 on: August 11, 2009, 08:07:58 AM »
The fact that this article got posted at all by IGN leads me to suspect that they were setting up Kaigler for a specific response (the one provided).

If they were doing that, wouldn't they have chosen wording that didn't make them look so stupid?
[For instance, "Some people say that the DSI looks a little slow out of the gate..."]

As it is, they looked thoroughly spanked.

Given IGN's long record of cluelessness, it seems simpler to just take what happened at face value, and conclude they were sloppy and got called on it.

Offline KDR_11k

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #416 on: August 11, 2009, 09:00:20 AM »
The fact that this article got posted at all by IGN leads me to suspect that they were setting up Kaigler for a specific response (the one provided).  Unless they were speaking with regards to the advertising of the system, which in my experience has been very little.

Asking Nintendo seems to be a regular feature on IGN so they probably had to post something on the schedule.

Offline Peachylala

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #417 on: August 13, 2009, 08:18:53 PM »
This Matt grilling was very long over-do.

VERY VERY LONG OVERDUE.
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Offline Djunknown

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #418 on: August 16, 2009, 08:43:42 PM »
I was thinking of putting this in the funhouse, but I figure it would do better here.

An interesting editorial

As always, some choice bits:

Quote
Nintendo is a man telling you he's your friend while he's steadily kicking you in the groin. For that, Nintendo definitely needs to STFU.

Quote
A new Metroid, Mario and the teased new Zelda (Pikmin 3 appears to have been forgotten by this point) do not exactly make for a killer lineup, especially considering the fact that it's been a year since E3 08. Yet Nintendo fans will justify the company's attitude by actually beinggrateful for it. As if Nintendo has done an amazing thing. Really, Nintendo has done what it's always done: Made a big show of being "sorry" for its arrogance, tossed a mere handful of interesting videogames our way, then gone back to its usual embrace of soccer moms and grandmothers. The fact that Nintendo fans lap that &*!# up like starving dogs is kind of pathetic, really.

Italics are his, the word that was blocked because we can't say, is mine.

Quote
It's the half-measures that irk me more than anything else. If Nintendo wants to be an arrogant, condescending *(#!, then that's fine. That's fantastic, in fact. However, it never wants to go all the way...Maybe it's simply because it realizes it can still make plenty of money out of a demographic it's shown public disdain for. Not many companies can laugh in the face of its consumers on a public stage and still command their loyalty...

In short, I find it to be a rehash of old arguments, with some colorful langauge and imagery.
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #419 on: August 16, 2009, 09:02:54 PM »
It's like a typical, weak forum poast.  The fact it's published gives it an artificial air of importance.
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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #420 on: August 16, 2009, 09:15:46 PM »
I was thinking of putting this in the funhouse, but I figure it would do better here.

An interesting editorial

As always, some choice bits:

Quote
Nintendo is a man telling you he's your friend while he's steadily kicking you in the groin. For that, Nintendo definitely needs to STFU.

Quote
A new Metroid, Mario and the teased new Zelda (Pikmin 3 appears to have been forgotten by this point) do not exactly make for a killer lineup, especially considering the fact that it's been a year since E3 08. Yet Nintendo fans will justify the company's attitude by actually beinggrateful for it. As if Nintendo has done an amazing thing. Really, Nintendo has done what it's always done: Made a big show of being "sorry" for its arrogance, tossed a mere handful of interesting videogames our way, then gone back to its usual embrace of soccer moms and grandmothers. The fact that Nintendo fans lap that &*!# up like starving dogs is kind of pathetic, really.

Italics are his, the word that was blocked because we can't say, is mine.

Quote
It's the half-measures that irk me more than anything else. If Nintendo wants to be an arrogant, condescending *(#!, then that's fine. That's fantastic, in fact. However, it never wants to go all the way...Maybe it's simply because it realizes it can still make plenty of money out of a demographic it's shown public disdain for. Not many companies can laugh in the face of its consumers on a public stage and still command their loyalty...

In short, I find it to be a rehash of old arguments, with some colorful langauge and imagery.

I don't think this is an example of pathetic journalism.  First of all, its on a blog.  In addition, its supposed to be over the top and full of hyperbole as the Sony, and MS posts were.  And finally, the main point of the article is sadly true.  Nintendo is swimming in arrogance right now.  Sailing away on the big blue sea while tossing a few scraps to the faithful.  Its an arrogance similar to that which deluded Sony into believing they could charge $600 for the PS3.  They'll learn in time.
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #421 on: August 16, 2009, 09:41:07 PM »
Nintendo "fans" will die out with the rest of the non-casuals.

Nintendo was right to abandon the sinking ship.
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Offline Deguello

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #422 on: August 16, 2009, 09:50:28 PM »
Quote
Nintendo is swimming in arrogance right now.  Sailing away on the big blue sea while tossing a few scraps to the faithful.  Its an arrogance similar to that which deluded Sony into believing they could charge $600 for the PS3.  They'll learn in time.

I'm not sure I follow.  Where is Nintendo showing their "arrogance" here?  By making products that are popular with several types of customers instead of just one type?  And this is equivalent to saying people should work two jobs to buy a PS3?  Accusations of "arrogance" tend to pop up when somebody gets popular.  Nintendo is no exception.  People claimed Nintendo was "Arrogant" to make the DS, to make the Wiimote, and now apparently to make games like Wii Fit.  HOW DARE THEY... make... video games with varying popularity with the internet media...  or something.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2009, 09:53:07 PM by Deguello »
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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #423 on: August 16, 2009, 09:55:44 PM »
Quote
Nintendo is swimming in arrogance right now.  Sailing away on the big blue sea while tossing a few scraps to the faithful.  Its an arrogance similar to that which deluded Sony into believing they could charge $600 for the PS3.  They'll learn in time.

I'm not sure I follow.  Where is Nintendo showing their "arrogance" here?  By making products that are popular with several types of customers instead of just one type?  And this is equivalent to saying people should work two jobs to buy a PS3?  Accusations of "arrogance" tend to pop up when somebody gets popular.  Nintendo is no exception.  People claimed Nintendo was "Arrogant" to make the DS, to make the Wiimote, and now apparently to make games like Wii Fit.  HOW DARE THEY... make... video games with varying popularity with the internet media...  or something.

There are many examples of arrogance.  Just a couple are spending half the time in multiple press conferences talking about how much $$$ you're pulling in or acting astonishingly insulted when gamers says they're disappointed all they're getting for xmas is Animal Crossing.
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Offline Infernal Monkey

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Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'
« Reply #424 on: August 16, 2009, 09:56:04 PM »
LOL CRYBABY 'ARTICLES'.

REMEMBER WHEN RICK DID THAT? LOL! PSP GONNA BEAT DAT DS COZ GRAPHICS *FRONT PAGE ARTICLE*

LOL AT D AVERAGE. TRY PLAYING VIDEO GAMES FOR A CHANGE INSTEAD OF BAWWWW'ING.



LOL NINTENDO NEEDS TO STFU WHERE'S MY PAYCHECK!!!!!