Topic: Raise Your Standards

[Halbred]

Bah. Developers will put the minimum effort into something in order to make it sell. I will happily admit that not a single Wii game has really surpassed what the GC can offer. Brawl--maybe. But the character models haven't really changed. Their texture maps have, but is that really so awesome?

I'm kind of in the "why does it have to be photorealistic?" crowd. I prefer the abstract look of Viewtiful Joe and Patapon over Gears of War and Halo. Video games are an art form, one where a developer's creative energies can go virtually unchecked. I'd like to see more games developed specifically for the medium. Nintendo is in a great position to do that. Not only can the gameplay be fundamentally different, but the look of a game can be experimental, too.

"Better graphics" doesn't have to mean "BETTER graphics." It can mean something totally different. It can mean "different graphics." Sure, the Wii is underpowered compared to the competition (graphically speaking), but why not make a stable of wierd-looking games that are absolutely unique?

Again, Patapon is a great starting point.

[Arbok]

The only games that came close to reusing Sunshine's Mario was Double Dash and MK Wii.  Where the hell are the other ones you're talking about?  Mario Teaches Trolling?

Didn't the EA sports game, the basketball and snowboarding one, reuse one of the earlier Mario models? Not that those games are ones many want to recall Mario being in...

[Ian Sane]

The only games that came close to reusing Sunshine's Mario was Double Dash and MK Wii.  Where the hell are the other ones you're talking about?  Mario Teaches Trolling?

I'm pretty sure all the Mario Party game reused the same model.  And let's not forget Mario Tennis, Golf, maybe Baseball and Mario DDR.  If those didn't use the same model they sure as hell didn't do much else beyond the Dreamcast launch game design of Sunshine.  I found all those games to have the same dull "going through the motions" appearance of Sunshine.

I personally don't buy this "the hardware was dedicated to the water" excuse.  Somehow Wave Race: Blue Storm didn't look like balls but whatever.

To be fair my opinion may be influenced by the fact that I find the game overall very disappointing.  It's easily the worst and least essential of the EAD Mario platformers, except for Lost Levels of course.

I agree that games need not be photorealistic.  In fact I find most games that strive for that look dull.  I do however like it when a game goes for a realistic look but just adds the tiniest bit of style to it that makes it stand out.  Capcom and Konami make a lot of games that are supposed to look like the real world but have a style that prevents them from looking generic.

Logically the Wii should have both better looking games than the Gamecube and different looking games.  Right now it has a little too many games that wouldn't even fly on the Gamecube in the first place.  That's unacceptable.

[NWR_Lindy]

I think Nintendo's finally figured out The Formula.  Remember all those years when they said they wanted to find out a way to do away with the expensive, long development cycles most games had?  That all of that stuff was crippling the industry and that it wasn't sustainable in the long run?  Yeah, they just figured it out.

What Nintendo is doing right now reminds me of what P. Diddy did to hip-hop back in '95.  Before that people knew how to make a good hip-hop record, but nobody knew how to package it or market it to the masses.  P. Diddy figured that out, and hip-hop has never been the same since.  Now everything is bling-bling, garbage beats, garbage lyrics etc.  Once Diddy figured out The Formula, nobody had to try to do anything different any more, because they could sell maximum records with minimum effort.

I see a lot of that here.  If Nintendo can sell millions of games to people that are perfectly fine with GameCube-level graphics, then why bother spending money on doing anything better?  Unfortunately for us, it's really good business.

[Plugabugz]

Rihanna has the biggest selling single in 14 YEARS (ella ella ella1!!!!!!!!!!!!). At the other extreme end, some new (genuinely talented) artists are barely selling 10,000 copies in their first week. The Formula has the benefit of making it massively appealing but at the risk of alienating everyone all at once.

Sound familiar?

[Ian Sane]

The Formula is conning stupids instead of winning over customers with a good product.  In other words Nintendo using The Formula goes completely against the philosophies that made them great in the first place.  At least P Diddy didn't have a good reputation.  This is like if Run DMC were the creators of sh!tty rap.

Scary stuff.  Popular music died for me a long time ago.  It's gotten to the point where there are teenagers that never lived in a world where one had to make melodic music.  It seems like we eventually hit a point of no return where the younger generation is so ignorant of what came before that things cannot be fixed.  Gaming may very well go in that direction.

Hell it happened with music before.  Who is familiar with popular music prior to 1955?  Rock n Roll pretty much stamped the old music out.  I know the odd Sinatra song but that's like it.

[NWR_insanolord]

Other than Wii Music Nintendo's casual friendly stuff that they're using "the formula" to sell has been good, it's the third parties that abuse it and release crap. I don't think you can blame Nintendo for the third parties being assholes.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

"I'm pretty sure all the Mario Party game reused the same model.  And let's not forget Mario Tennis, Golf, maybe Baseball and Mario DDR.  If those didn't use the same model they sure as hell didn't do much else beyond the Dreamcast launch game design of Sunshine.  I found all those games to have the same dull "going through the motions" appearance of Sunshine."

Face it, you have mud-tinted glasses.  There was a prevalent primary-candy-colored art style recycled throughout GameCube Mario, and that's all there is to it, and they all ran at 60fps to boot.

[Morari]

I'm kind of in the "why does it have to be photorealistic?" crowd. I prefer the abstract look of Viewtiful Joe and Patapon over Gears of War and Halo. Video games are an art form, one where a developer's creative energies can go virtually unchecked. I'd like to see more games developed specifically for the medium. Nintendo is in a great position to do that. Not only can the gameplay be fundamentally different, but the look of a game can be experimental, too.

I'm of the same crowd. However, I'd argue that games used to be an art form, when it took one to five people sitting in their parents' garage to make. Nowadays, there is so much bureaucracy involved in popular games that there are nothing more than a product. No one person tends to have enough influence during develop to turn said videogames back into art. The same is generally true for films as well, which is why the small one-man crew flicks tend to have more substance than all of the big-budget CGI in the world.

[Mario]

Nobody cares

[Infernal Monkey]

Oh okay.

[Deguello]

LOL Nintendo Conspiracy Theories.  This is getting STUPID.

[MegaByte]

For example I know Johnny criticized the environments in Deadly Creatures, while I found the visuals to be quite good, even on part with most GC visuals.

Isn't this exactly what Jonny is railing against?

[NWR_Lindy]

It seems like we eventually hit a point of no return where the younger generation is so ignorant of what came before that things cannot be fixed.  Gaming may very well go in that direction.

I think that's a little - OK, a lot - pessimistic Ian, but video gaming, like music, is a copycat industry.  The whole "casual movement" isn't going away any time soon.  I think there will be a glut of casual games, then there will be a backlash, then there will no longer be any money in casual games, and then we'll be back to traditional games again.  Eventually I'd expect some sort of equilibrium to develop, but who knows.

[Dasmos]

I see a lot of that here.  If Nintendo can sell millions of games to people that are perfectly fine with GameCube-level graphics, then why bother spending money on doing anything better?  Unfortunately for us, it's really good business.

Fortunately the thing that matters, THE GAMEPLAY, is still first-class. So the visuals aren't all they COULD be, they are all that they NEED to be.

Personally when I'm playing a game, for instance Mario Strikers, which was criticised for only a minor upgrade fro its GC counterpart, I'm not looking at bland texture or a blurry character model, I'm enjoying the game. Better graphics would be better from a technical standpoint, but it's not going to affect my experience too greatly. I think the problem with most of you whiners is you don't play games, you review games. You are looking for things to fault instead of enjoying what you have.

[Rize]

"However, I also don't think it's asking too much that a new, $50 Wii game meet the minimum visual standard of Blue Storm, a game that is nearly seven years old and was built on predecessor technology."

And even worse, the technology in question is ostensibly owned by Nintendo already and just waiting to be ported into the game.

Personally, I'm hardly expecting any more Wii games that I even want to play, much less good games that also look good.  Except maybe one more decent game from each of the metroid, zelda and mario teams, my attention is focused on the consoles that truly cater to "hardcore" gamers.

[Rize]

I think Nintendo's finally figured out The Formula.  Remember all those years when they said they wanted to find out a way to do away with the expensive, long development cycles most games had?  That all of that stuff was crippling the industry and that it wasn't sustainable in the long run?  Yeah, they just figured it out.

What Nintendo is doing right now reminds me of what P. Diddy did to hip-hop back in '95.  Before that people knew how to make a good hip-hop record, but nobody knew how to package it or market it to the masses.  P. Diddy figured that out, and hip-hop has never been the same since.  Now everything is bling-bling, garbage beats, garbage lyrics etc.  Once Diddy figured out The Formula, nobody had to try to do anything different any more, because they could sell maximum records with minimum effort.

I see a lot of that here.  If Nintendo can sell millions of games to people that are perfectly fine with GameCube-level graphics, then why bother spending money on doing anything better?  Unfortunately for us, it's really good business.

This makes me want to write a blog post or editorial called "Nintendo Is Destroying the Video Game Industry".  At least the one most of us care about.  Of course, if it was going to implode anyway due to impossible to maintain costs, then that's not being entirely fair.  Perhaps I could at least move on with my exposition entitled "I hate the Wii".

And yet, look at the computer graphics they manage to include in "low budget" movies these days.  The movie industry, at least, as greatly streamlined the process of making great looking computer graphics... the game industry could (and is slowly beginning to) do the same sort of thing.

[Dasmos]

Personally, I'm hardly expecting any more Wii games that I even want to play, much less good games that also look good.

lol what?

[Rize]

Fortunately the thing that matters, THE GAMEPLAY, is still first-class. So the visuals aren't all they COULD be, they are all that they NEED to be.

Personally when I'm playing a game, for instance Mario Strikers, which was criticised for only a minor upgrade fro its GC counterpart, I'm not looking at bland texture or a blurry character model, I'm enjoying the game. Better graphics would be better from a technical standpoint, but it's not going to affect my experience too greatly. I think the problem with most of you whiners is you don't play games, you review games. You are looking for things to fault instead of enjoying what you have.

Personally, when I'm playing a game, I'm going for total immersion.  I play games like Resident Evil 4, Metroid Prime III, Half-Life 2, Gears of War, Assassins Creed, Bioshock etc.  I want a visual extravaganza and good gameplay at the same time.

"enjoying what you have"  again, that is exactly the lowering of standards that Jonny is talking about.

I'd rather not waste any time playing a video game if I'm not playing a really good one (good in every way).  I have better things to do.  There's decades worth of good books and movies to experience, not to mention activities that involve people who don't really care for video games.

[Dasmos]

Personally, when I'm playing a game, I'm going for total immersion.  I play games like Resident Evil 4, Metroid Prime III, Half-Life 2, Gears of War, Assassins Creed, Bioshock etc.

You're my hero.

"enjoying what you have"  again, that is exactly the lowering of standards that Jonny is talking about.

And that's what I'm saying is stupid. If the graphics are so bad that it starts to detract from other aspects of the game then you have a acceptable reason to complain.

[Morari]

And yet, look at the computer graphics they manage to include in "low budget" movies these days.  The movie industry, at least, as greatly streamlined the process of making great looking computer graphics... the game industry could (and is slowly beginning to) do the same sort of thing.

Nope, CGI ruins films, simple as that. It always comes off as fake looking and instantly destroy what little suspension of disbelief may have existed before. Besides, game companies have been licensing engines for over a decade.

[vudu]

I love our staff.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I rethunk about my standards when Sony announced PS3 would be $600.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I love our staff.

I think some of the staff contracted the Whino virus.

[King of Twitch]

WHINO: Wii Hardcore In Name Only