Author Topic: Treyarch Puts Specialized Team in Charge of Next Call of Duty  (Read 25216 times)

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Offline Nick DiMola

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Re: Treyarch Puts Specialized Team in Charge of Next Call of Duty
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2008, 11:54:50 AM »
Maybe if war games were truly realistic, people would stop signing their lives away at recruitment offices. I'd be all for that. Wake up all the little kiddies that think war is just a game with free college packed in.

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Offline Morari

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Re: Treyarch Puts Specialized Team in Charge of Next Call of Duty
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2008, 01:21:55 PM »
That was a moral truth, not a political opinion. I realize however that people, Americans especially, tend to dislike hearing the truth. Perhaps I simply fail to comprehend just how one keeps political discussion out of a thread concerning war "games". It's your forum though, so whatever...
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: Treyarch Puts Specialized Team in Charge of Next Call of Duty
« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2008, 01:28:18 PM »
::laughs at Morari:: Walks away.
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Offline DAaaMan64

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Re: Treyarch Puts Specialized Team in Charge of Next Call of Duty
« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2008, 01:28:42 PM »
That was a moral truth, not a political opinion. I realize however that people, Americans especially, tend to dislike hearing the truth. Perhaps I simply fail to comprehend just how one keeps political discussion out of a thread concerning war "games". It's your forum though, so whatever...

LOL. Aren't you quite the arrogant person. Tell me just how many American's have you met? Have you met me? I'm quite American and believe I've heard the truth as well.  I meet many people a day that believe they've heard the truth too. How ignorant of you to say something like that. haha

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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: Treyarch Puts Specialized Team in Charge of Next Call of Duty
« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2008, 01:31:12 PM »
That was a moral truth, not a political opinion. I realize however that people, Americans especially, tend to dislike hearing the truth. Perhaps I simply fail to comprehend just how one keeps political discussion out of a thread concerning war "games". It's your forum though, so whatever...

LOL. Aren't you quite the arrogant person. Tell me just how many American's have you met? Have you met me? I'm quite American and believe I've heard the truth as well.  I meet many people a day that believe they've heard the truth too. How ignorant of you to say something like that. haha



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Offline Nick DiMola

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Re: Treyarch Puts Specialized Team in Charge of Next Call of Duty
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2008, 01:34:53 PM »
Perhaps I simply fail to comprehend just how one keeps political discussion out of a thread concerning war "games".

Simple, you don't comment on it if you don't know how to respond with something outside of the political realm. Political discussion has happened on numerous occasions in the past and has caused nothing but bad blood and anger. Is there merit to political discussion? Yes, but not on a board about videogames.

Both points you made in both of your posts beg for someone with an opposing opinion to retaliate, and often times their retaliation and your retaliation to their post wouldn't be civil.

EDIT: Oh look, someone already did. NO POLITICAL DISCUSSION. PERIOD.
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Offline Plugabugz

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Re: Treyarch Puts Specialized Team in Charge of Next Call of Duty
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2008, 01:40:43 PM »
Let us all talk about Mr. Jack. It's more appealing.

Offline DAaaMan64

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Re: Treyarch Puts Specialized Team in Charge of Next Call of Duty
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2008, 01:42:41 PM »
I look forward to this game personally. Yes WWII shooters are a dime a dozen, but several of them are quite good regardless.
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Offline Morari

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Re: Treyarch Puts Specialized Team in Charge of Next Call of Duty
« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2008, 01:54:32 PM »
Perhaps I simply fail to comprehend just how one keeps political discussion out of a thread concerning war "games".
Simple, you don't comment on it if you don't know how to respond with something outside of the political realm.

Well then, in the interest of not derailing this "videogame" discussion any further, let me just say that World War II shooters have always sucked and will only suck more and more as they are continuously milked. Call of Duty is especially bad in being a heavily scripted, bloodless affair with a weak sense of heroism trying to cover for it. Last time I checked, not even Id Software could make a truly entertaining WWII shooter, and the Wolfenstein series has zombies!

DAaaMan64: You were seemingly offended by taking my comment slightly out of context. I apologize for not being able to elaborate upon this position further.

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« Last Edit: June 27, 2008, 02:46:41 PM by Morari »
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Offline DAaaMan64

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Re: Treyarch Puts Specialized Team in Charge of Next Call of Duty
« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2008, 01:57:35 PM »
Offended? No.  Laughing at ignorance? Yes. I'm not sure what context I missed there.  But whatever I'll move on.

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« Last Edit: June 27, 2008, 02:12:43 PM by Mr. Jack »
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Offline Enner

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Re: Treyarch Puts Specialized Team in Charge of Next Call of Duty
« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2008, 02:15:44 PM »
>>that World War II shooters have always sucked and will only suck more and more as they are continuously milked.

Hey! Allied Assault and Call of Duty: United Offensive are great and exciting action games that bring a cinematic intensity with them. Match that with its historical setting and I think you have some great entertainment.

>>Call of Duty is especially bad in being a heavily scripted, bloodless affair with a weak sense of heroism trying to cover for it.

If this a morality issue about portraying a war (or any war) as Rambo-esque interactive entertainment, than fair enough.
In terms of gaming, I feel that great scripted FPSes are successful 3D adaptions of 2D soldier shoot 'em ups like Contra, Super Star Wars, and Metal Slug. Great, exciting, and explosive entertainment where the some of the fun or excitement is that you play hero. Now, if you say, "That's great and all, but why can't they do it in a deattached fantasy or cartoon setting like the titles you mentioned?", than another fair enough to that.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: Treyarch Puts Specialized Team in Charge of Next Call of Duty
« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2008, 02:22:35 PM »
Then sensationalized PG-13ish Hollywood heroics of the WWII shooters makes me sick like Ian hearing about the latest Friend Code game.  "Cinematics" have destroyed the personal atmosphere of cold dread and anxiety that should accompany the "soldier" "experience", particularly in the World Wars.

I guess the sense of danger and struggle and the value of teammate characters just doesn't belong in video gaming.  The market does not care about these things.

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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Treyarch Puts Specialized Team in Charge of Next Call of Duty
« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2008, 02:27:48 PM »
I seriously doubt Call of Duty: World at War is going to influence anyone's world view, the video game by it's very nature is escapist fantasy. Whether using this subject matter for escapist fantasy is unethical is a separate issue that Jonny has already brought up last year.

In the spirit of this abstracted entertainment, I hope this game has good melee attacks.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2008, 02:29:54 PM by ShyGuy »

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: Treyarch Puts Specialized Team in Charge of Next Call of Duty
« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2008, 02:38:06 PM »
Quote
GoldenPhoenix: Consider yourself lucky that this was all stopped.

So frightening. Thankfully I'm so lucky!

Anyway hopefully this game turns out pretty good for the Wii and doesn't feel like a sloppy port.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2008, 02:44:14 PM by GoldenPhoenix »
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Offline Enner

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Re: Treyarch Puts Specialized Team in Charge of Next Call of Duty
« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2008, 02:41:59 PM »
Then sensationalized PG-13ish Hollywood heroics of the WWII shooters makes me sick like Ian hearing about the latest Friend Code game.  "Cinematics" have destroyed the personal atmosphere of cold dread and anxiety that should accompany the "soldier" "experience", particularly in the World Wars.

I guess the sense of danger and struggle and the value of teammate characters just doesn't belong in video gaming.  The market does not care about these things.

Hey whatever happend to having fun at the expense of not taking a great and terrible war not too or at all seriously!
... ew.

I totally understand the sentiment you're pushing forth. I wouldn't mind at all if video games stopped using WWII as a setting. There would be less thinking if playing a game is disrespectful to the people that actually lived through such dire times. Actually, to be honest, such thoughts hardly ever crossed my mind; too many bullets and explosions to do other than keep my hands on the keyboard and mouse and my eyes attentively on the screen. That, and I'm usually sad and pissed if I have an NPC ally die on me.

As for the sense of danger, struggle, and value, there is Gearbox's Brother in Arms series that the developer is always pushing for that personal and intimate edge. Though, I think key allies don't die unless scripted to. And there's also that slo-mo kill cam in Hell's Highway that details how you've blown apart a Nazi (probably intended to glorify the moment and/or show the awful deed you've just done).

Whether using this subject matter for escapist fantasy is unethical is a separate issue that Jonny has already brought up last year.
Ah, something for me to hunt down.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2008, 02:45:43 PM by Enner »

Offline Nick DiMola

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Re: Treyarch Puts Specialized Team in Charge of Next Call of Duty
« Reply #40 on: June 27, 2008, 02:50:20 PM »
Whether using this subject matter for escapist fantasy is unethical is a separate issue that Jonny has already brought up last year.
Ah, something for me to hunt down.

Current WWII Shooters Are Unethical
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Offline Enner

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Re: Treyarch Puts Specialized Team in Charge of Next Call of Duty
« Reply #41 on: June 27, 2008, 02:52:26 PM »
Whether using this subject matter for escapist fantasy is unethical is a separate issue that Jonny has already brought up last year.
Ah, something for me to hunt down.

Current WWII Shooters Are Unethical

Oh happy coincidence and blessed promptness gone to some waste. I actually found the thread and was going to edit the link in to my post. However, you sir have posted it first.
:<
Eh... sorry for the trouble and thanks!

Offline Morari

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Re: Treyarch Puts Specialized Team in Charge of Next Call of Duty
« Reply #42 on: June 27, 2008, 02:52:51 PM »
The linked discussion is somehow not political to some degree? o_O
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: Treyarch Puts Specialized Team in Charge of Next Call of Duty
« Reply #43 on: June 27, 2008, 03:08:36 PM »
Hilariously, Brothers in Arms for Wii has little collective hope from the internet going for it.  But I do desire that team-centric, vintage Rainbow Six squad experience where the in-game story presses the matter that lives are at stake.

I'm in the niche that desires tactical simulations (no life meters, one NATO round will usually take you out).  Being a simulation, it's ALREADY a fantasy, so I don't want all the extra fantasy sensationalism that removes the core challenge I sought from the simulation.  But thanks to MS, Ubi, Activision, Sony, and EA, video game war is... Spike TV Action Weekend (with commercials).

I'm also sick of the gritty dingy stylized off-realism in annual HD war gaming (ie. 300).  Whatever happened to good ol' cold photo-realism?
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Offline Enner

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Re: Treyarch Puts Specialized Team in Charge of Next Call of Duty
« Reply #44 on: June 27, 2008, 06:17:12 PM »
The linked discussion is somehow not political to some degree? o_O

I think it isn't. It's mostly about ethics and morals concerning the portrayal of WWII games.
Your army recruitment post is a bit of a slam against the political tool that is the military. Eep! Shouldn't be talking more about it.

I'm also sick of the gritty dingy stylized off-realism in annual HD war gaming (ie. 300).  Whatever happened to good ol' cold photo-realism?

Now you Battlefield: Bad Company. Something that is pretty much Three Kings in eastern Europe with some postprocessed film grain effect.

Offline Morari

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Re: Treyarch Puts Specialized Team in Charge of Next Call of Duty
« Reply #45 on: June 27, 2008, 11:06:23 PM »
Disclaimer: This is not intended to be political in the least bit. Some statements may seem contrary to clearly stated forum rules. This is not the case, and such statements are only made so as to provide background information. This information is provided as historical truth, and in no way reflects the political position or opinions of the poster. Any opinions provided are solely in the interest of discussing the ramifications of an increasingly poor genre of so-called historical videogames.

World War II games will continue to come out. They're very well established at this point, and sadly represent a lot of what many people probably "know" of said conflict. As mentioned previously, the setting provides for a clear enemy that is undeniably evil. Whilst all of those German soldiers were simply fighting for their country, much like any other serviceman would, the broader implications as seen through hindsight cannot be denied. For this reason, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone mourn the loss of a digitally represented Nazi and you'd have a hard time complaining that the German soldiers are being vilified.

However, things seemingly become confounded when you bring in other factions of the "Axis". People in general tend to know even less about the Japanese involvement in World War II, and certainly very little of the Italians. Add in the fact that Russia was an uneasy ally and immediately became hated enemies after the dust had settled, and you quickly begin to see potential campaign settings diminish. No one country were heroes, but videogames and films tend to stick with the United States and England above anyone else. The probable heroism of any given soldier is overshadowed or outright ignored in favor of showcasing the greatness of said country. This may simply be a case of history being written by the victors, but also doubles as a sort of Ministry of Truth, wherein the ends justified any heinous means potentially taken.

People like to be told how great their culture is, and how their country saved the world from evil. The large majority of persons that had been there are no longer here today, and certainly don't play videgames if they are. They make up an almost nonexistent piece of the potential market. The developers don't care if they offend, because ultimately they aren't selling history, they're selling an experience that smells vaguely of an assumed truth. People are familiar enough with the setting and primary characters that such games practically come preinstalled with a user base. Besides, people like to blast faceless and unquestionably evil stormtroopers, whether it be in Normandy or on the Death Star...

The linked discussion is somehow not political to some degree? o_O

I think it isn't. It's mostly about ethics and morals concerning the portrayal of WWII games.
Your army recruitment post is a bit of a slam against the political tool that is the military. Eep! Shouldn't be talking more about it.

The army recruitment post was not a "slam" against anything, per say. Even if it were, it would have been directed at the delusional masses that think war is something that it is not because they've played a few videogames and read the junk mail sent out to them by the government. In discussing anything related to war, the discussion will be political in nature. War is, in and of itself, a strictly political beast--until we get back to talking about clans of cavemen fighting over a fallen mammoth carcass to eat and survive, that is. In discussing the dilemma of appeasing veterans by not trivializing their efforts while appealing to the masses with an entertainment product, you are essentially speaking more of politics than you are morals or ethics. Me thinks that this "no political discussion" rule, while just enough, is vaguely implemented and narrowly enforced. ;)

EDIT: Many of these points seem to have already been discussed within the aforementioned "Current WWII Shooters Are Unethical" thread. I just wasted a lot of typing, apparently. At least I now know for sure that my comments aren't political in nature...
« Last Edit: June 28, 2008, 03:29:09 AM by Morari »
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Offline Shift Key

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Re: Treyarch Puts Specialized Team in Charge of Next Call of Duty
« Reply #46 on: June 28, 2008, 12:08:22 AM »
Civil War might work really well under the right developer, (have to compensate for slow muskets and impatient gamers)

Mustache mini-games?

Offline Nick DiMola

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Re: Treyarch Puts Specialized Team in Charge of Next Call of Duty
« Reply #47 on: June 28, 2008, 01:06:26 AM »
Me thinks that this "no political discussion" rule, while just enough, is vaguely implemented and narrowly enforced.

As it needs to be. I think everyone knows when they are crossing into controversial territory, we don't need a laundry list in order for everyone to get the picture. It is narrowly enforced because just the smallest nudge across the line can really open the floodgates, I've seen it happen.

I know alot of people don't like the rule, but it is there for a reason. If you want to discuss video games and politics feel free to visit gamepolitics.com, they welcome that kind of discussion there. All other gaming discourse is welcomed and appreciated here.
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Offline Enner

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Re: Treyarch Puts Specialized Team in Charge of Next Call of Duty
« Reply #48 on: June 28, 2008, 03:30:18 AM »
The linked discussion is somehow not political to some degree? o_O

I think it isn't. It's mostly about ethics and morals concerning the portrayal of WWII games.
Your army recruitment post is a bit of a slam against the political tool that is the military. Eep! Shouldn't be talking more about it.

The army recruitment post was not a "slam" against anything, per say. Even if it were, it would have been directed at the delusional masses that think war is something that it is not because they've played a few videogames and read the junk mail sent out to them by the government. In discussing anything related to war, the discussion will be political in nature. War is, in and of itself, a strictly political beast--until we get back to talking about clans of cavemen fighting over a fallen mammoth carcass to eat and survive, that is. In discussing the dilemma of appeasing veterans by not trivializing their efforts while appealing to the masses with an entertainment product, you are essentially speaking more of politics than you are morals or ethics. Me thinks that this "no political discussion" rule, while just enough, is vaguely implemented and narrowly enforced. ;)


Actually, I think even with the caveman example there are some politics involved. There has to be some sort of government if they formed clans! :p

Civil War might work really well under the right developer, (have to compensate for slow muskets and impatient gamers)

Mustache mini-games?

With bayonets. Don't forget the bayonets.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: Treyarch Puts Specialized Team in Charge of Next Call of Duty
« Reply #49 on: June 28, 2008, 03:59:09 AM »
Edited for Kairon. All I will say is cut it out to Morari and utilize the thread that was linked. The End.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2008, 04:34:57 AM by GoldenPhoenix »
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