Topic: How to Manage Your Forums

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

"You amke it sound like anyone who doesn't read up about a game for months ahead of time isn't a real gamer that is bullshit my friend"

Who said casual gamers weren't real gamers?  Quit distorting the reality of the statement.  Or maybe you really bought into "serious gamer" definition.

[NWR_Lindy]

To further my "perception shaping reality" point, I think this article speaks volumes:

http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008/06/11/wii-pole-dancing-game-update/

Yes, this game is garbage, and whether or not it comes to the Wii is irrelevant.  However, I think it says a lot about how Nintendo and the Wii is perceived by developers making "edgier" content.  Whether it's justified or not is another issue entirely, but the "Wii is only for family content" sentiment is definitely out there.  To me, the key quotes here are:

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"The biggest issue with the whole thing is Nintendo’s approval,” Kay said. “We’re not going to get Nintendo to approve a Carmen Electra-based Wii game, not in near future at least.” However, he thinks that with the right developer and publisher, they could skew the game towards females and their families as a unique way to get fit using fun avatars like Miis.
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Where is this perception coming from?  I mean, the developer isn't just pulling this opinion out of thin air.  It seems that Wii is already developing a stigma of being the console "for females and families".

Also:

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“On the Xbox 360, the game could be edgier, and we could bring in Carmen Electra for it.”

“But are we over-worrying about Nintendo?” Kay wondered.
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I don't know, are they?  If this is how other developers with "edgier" content are thinking, I fear for the future.  I don't give a crap about this developer or their garbage Carmen Electra game, but if other companies are thinking pretty much the same thing then that's a BIG problem.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

And the reality is those developers are in for a financial WORLD OF HURT.  /R. Lee Ermey

[animecyberrat]

I was using myself as and example, I am not a casual gamer, and am very serious gamer.

[DAaaMan64]

I'm being super serial right now

[Urkel]

I realize that the DS' library improved greatly later on, but the Wii seems to be going in the opposite direction.  With the DS there weren't too many games in 2004/2005, period, and then you had the Great Flood of Christmas 2005.

A quality DS game could be made in 6 months to a year. With the Wii your talking at least a year and a half to two, hence why it's taking longer for things to turn around.

"The biggest issue with the whole thing is Nintendo’s approval,” Kay said. “We’re not going to get Nintendo to approve a Carmen Electra-based Wii game, not in near future at least.” However, he thinks that with the right developer and publisher, they could skew the game towards females and their families as a unique way to get fit using fun avatars like Miis.

Clearly, these people are completely ignorant of Nintendo's approval process. As long as it's not AO rated, you're good to go. Hell, Nintendo's been criticized for their (almost) "anything goes" attitude.

Any company that perceives the industry in such a simplistic manner is lacking any real business sense and wont be around five years from now.

[NWR_Lindy]

Well, they're making a video game that teaches you how to pole-dance, so I'm not expecting Yamauchi-level business savvy out of them, that's for sure.

To me, this is like the argument that NBA games are fixed.  I wish I could say with 100% certainty that that wasn't true, but because of all of the crooked referee stuff I just can't.  I don't believe it to be the case, but because of the facts I just can't.

This is the same kind of thing.  I'd love to say with 100% certainty that developers don't dismiss the Wii as being for "females and their families", but reading statements like this means that I can't do that.  The only thing I can say is that I don't think it's happening, but I can't say for 100% sure.

[Nick DiMola]

I can say definitively that some developers do that. I have a friend who works as an animator for a game company and he has told me on numerous occasions that the Wii has been passed up when considering what system to develop their games for due to the personal bias' of those running the show.

[ShyGuy]

It's stories like Uncle Jack's that make me happy anymore when third parties go out of business or get bought out.

[vudu]

the Wii has been passed up when considering what system to develop their games for due to the personal bias' of those running the show.

Who has a bias against making money?

[Nick DiMola]

the Wii has been passed up when considering what system to develop their games for due to the personal bias' of those running the show.

Who has a bias against making money?

Idiots.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

How to Derail Your Thread

[Arbok]

How to Derail Your Thread

I smell a new Staff Blog topic...

[GoldenPhoenix]

It is kind of sad but I think the Wii has more survival horror games than 360. Not like they are any good besides RE4 but it is sad to see that genre start to die off besides the sporadic Silent Hill or RE game. This is why I feel Fatal Frame is something special, you just don't see these games much anymore. ANYWAY, it appears at E3 that NIntendo will more than likely unveil Kid Icarus, and that will more than likely be a traditional, non-casual game. What I love about the Wii so far is Nintendo has their stellar traditional franchises but also have some great casual games as well. If only 3rd parties would balance their games like that.

[Shift Key]

I have a friend who works as an animator for a game company and he has told me on numerous occasions that the Wii has been passed up when considering what system to develop their games for due to the personal bias' of those running the show.

Thanks for confirming my suspicions. And although its just one case, I'll bet its not an isolated one.

[Crimm]

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"The biggest issue with the whole thing is Nintendo’s approval,” Kay said. “We’re not going to get Nintendo to approve a Carmen Electra-based Wii game, not in near future at least.” However, he thinks that with the right developer and publisher, they could skew the game towards females and their families as a unique way to get fit using fun avatars like Miis.
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I would have lobbied hard for this to be sent to Greg for review.

[NWR_Lindy]

I would have lobbied hard for this to be sent to Greg for review.

You're right, reviewing this in British would be hilarious.

[ShyGuy]

To be fair, most things are more hilarious in British.

[KDR_11k]

I was using myself as and example, I am not a casual gamer, and am very serious gamer.

You're on this forum, automatically makes you a regular gamer in my system. A casual gamer doesn't spend time worrying about gaming outside of the time he's playing the game.

[NWR_Lindy]

A casual gamer doesn't spend time worrying about gaming outside of the time he's playing the game.

Bingo.

[animecyberrat]

that is not what I was saying, even going to internet forums and reading about games, which I really don't do that much, I still have purchased many games on impulse based on what little information I could gather right there at the store. There are gamers hard core enough to read about previews and stuff months even years in advance, but not doing that does not disqualify one for being hard core.

[Crimm]

I would have just liked to see him have to talk about it during new business.  If he, lets say, neglected to mention it we could bring it up.

[KDR_11k]

that is not what I was saying, even going to internet forums and reading about games, which I really don't do that much, I still have purchased many games on impulse based on what little information I could gather right there at the store. There are gamers hard core enough to read about previews and stuff months even years in advance, but not doing that does not disqualify one for being hard core.

If you don't research at times that's your thing but you still spend a lot of non-gaming time on gaming. That's where I see the distinction.

[animecyberrat]

I know lots of people who spend tons more money and time gaming than I do who never go on the internet or read a magazine, so no I don't get it. I spend more time on the web, talking about games than I do playing games, but it wasn't always this way for me. I used to never look up games on line. In fact the only reason I came here was looking for info on Revolution, prior to that all my time online was spent talking about transformers in the usenet groups.


What I am saying is to be "hard core" one does nto have to spend time researching the internet. Sure a casual or "non-gamer" is not likely to spend any time online, but a hard core gamer can buy just as many games without ever going online and reading about them. You never heard of commercials? Or Word of mouth?



All I am saying is a person can be a hard core gamer and never look games up online. That is a false assumption. It isn't limited to me. You make it sound like anyone who doesn't look up games online is a casual gamer, I contest that theory because mainly I know too many die hard gamers who just never go online looking for games, they buy what they think is going to be good based on what other people say or if they see a commercial or maybe someone who did go online tells them about it. But a hard core gamer does not have to ever log into a single gaming site to still be a hard core gamer.

[Plugabugz]

Wii is an interesting conundrum because its basically upending the table of all the staples we come to expect from the industry. DS did it too, but it didn't get the same attention because there was nobody directly to compete with (if Sony and Nintendo are to be believed).

For NWR it started with that statement at the Wii launch. It's easier, in theory, for developers to target games to the "differentiated gamers" who are less demanding because they aren't demanding about games in the first place. They just play, then stop. End. If they shift into the "existing gamer" market their demands would become more like ours - Make it good or we won't buy it. The same principle applies to nearly everything, think of "new" drivers and long-time ones. The newbies are happy to drive and the long-timers expect a better experience. There's more of the former than there is of the latter, hence Ubisoft are (in theory!!!!) doing the right thing because they would expect to make more money from people who are easier to spend it on stuff "existing gamers" wouldn't blink at it twice.

The problem is we shout louder. We want want want want because our needs are the ones that effectively created and drove the industry through the "unpopular years". Now it's a multi-billion dollar camel machine making more money than cinema and people are suddenly noticing.