Topic: How to Manage Your Forums

[ShyGuy]

And it's Lindermann with a brutal TROLL

How will we respond?

[Arbok]

If you consider yourself a serious gamer, don't buy a Wii.  It's a simple as that.

Yes sir. *proceeds to throw his Wii into a wood chipper*

[King of Twitch]

NWR Forums: Graveyard of Mockingbirds

[Caliban]

... and they don't require you to be a video game master who's prepared to put 50 hours into every title you pick up.

You can't say the same thing for 360 or PS3 either.
I can agree with what you said about the Wii, and I will add that we do get the odd game that is developed for the Wii "hardcore" audience, but I think that the number of hours is not a valid characteristic to expose your point. I think it all comes down to simplicity and functionality of controls.

[Bill Aurion]

If you consider yourself a serious gamer, don't buy a Wii.  It's a simple as that.

Wow, I guess I'm not a serious gamer after-all...Thanks for telling me what I am and what I am not...

[Infernal Monkey]

lol what a joke site, run by fanboys trying to be super internet edgy. No wonder this place is getting beaten by VOOKS.

[Deguello]

What we're seeing here is video games becoming so mainstream, and the video game audience becoming so massive, that companies can actually make a boatload of money by catering to a single type of gamer.

Wii is now officially the budget, family console.  This is what Dad plays with the wife and kids after dinner, before the kids go to bed.  In general, the games made for Wii will reflect this reality.

Xbox 360/Playstation 3 is the console that Dad plays with by himself (maybe with the wife), after the kids have gone to bed.  In general, the games made for Xbox 360/Playstation 3 will reflect this reality.

As a gamer, the Wii doesn't really cater to my interests any more.  It's a niche console - you get your Zeldas, Mario Galaxys, Smash Bros. Brawls, but that's about it.  To everybody else, it's exactly what they're looking for; it features fun games that are easy to get into, and they don't require you to be a video game master who's prepared to put 50 hours into every title you pick up.

If you consider yourself a serious gamer, don't buy a Wii.  It's a simple as that.

I disagree wholeheartedly, Silks.  Mainly because the "gaming audience" isn't as massive as you make it seem.

Both the 360 and PS3 combined haven't outsold the PS2 at this time in the last cycle.  If it were not for the Wii and its apparent influx of new gamers out of whole cloth the games industry, at least the console side, would be in a pretty deep recession, especially since Sony is still losing money on it and MS, despite a profitable quarter or two, is still $6 billion in the hole just "getting their foot in the door."  Nintendo saved the industry, again.  Hooray.

...

Unless of course you were to argue that these new, from-thin-air customers would have chosen the 360 or the PS3, otherwise.  Which I guess would make them savvy gamers who make choices based off of choice-making abilities.  If that's the case, then there are a whole lot of gamers willingly choosing the Wii.  A LOT of gamers.

The truth is that there is a combination of the two, but the percentages are uncertain.  If you were to take the official Nintendo number that 79% of them are still 18-40 Serious gamers with Serious Seriousness, that number comes to about 21 million worldwide, which is still higher than either of their competitors.  Even if the percentage got as low as 52%, it would still be a higher number than the 360's entire market, assuming it is 18-40 young male serious gamers.

Anyway you look at it, the Wii has a significantly sizable number of gamers that enjoy video games seriously (whatever that means) and it is certainly the biggest demographic on the console.

To use total generalizations to prove a point is ridiculous, silks.  To use them in a business strategy is beyond foolishness.

I remember a time when the DS was a portable that wasn't for "serious" portable owners.  That didn't stick.  This won't either, not matter how much the internet forums jawbone about it.

[Urkel]

I remember a time when the DS was a portable that wasn't for "serious" portable owners.  That didn't stick.

"Are you freaking serious? How is the Wii designed for a 'different' group?"

Because Nintendo SAID SO.  The Wii is aimed at the casual gamer.  Period.  Like it, don't like it, you can't argue the fact that Nintendo has designed and marketed the Wii thusly.  The SOFTWARE, on the other hand, may or may not be designed and marketed that way.  There will be some games designed to cater to Nintendo's fans, but I get the distinct impression that many of those games will be intentionally spaced out compared to the casual gamer shovelware that we're seeing now like Dogz and other such titles.

Deg ... I didn't mean that you are a casual gamer because you like Wario Ware.  I'm not saying Wario Ware is a bad game.  I'm just saying that the game is not fundamentally different than any of the other Wii games at this point.  The Wii has pretty much created a new genre: Waggle Mini-Game.  Simplistic, accessible games, but the problem I'm seeing is that while the graphics change, the gameplay is identical.  Those are perfect to attract new gamers (non-gamers), but that's not to say that others can't enjoy them either.  I just don't see how those games are supposed to entertain ME ... but I think that might be the point: They aren't supposed to entertain ME.

In case you don't get the joke... That's an old RickPowers post, except I switched DS with Wii.

We can count on getting some good games from Nintendo, I'm sure.  We can also count on crap like Pokemon Dash.  I'm just worried that the DS could become a haven for shovelware for developers to release garbage that looks innovative when it's really the same game with different graphics.  Having developer support is simply NOT GOOD ENOUGH.  The N64 had developer support too, and we got some really god-awful games out of that.  We don't want developers thinking, "Hey, I can make a quick buck by making a mini-game with stylus support" just to fund their other development efforts.  We want developers to stretch, to come up with new ideas, and I just don't see that happening.  I'd rather have fewer quality games than a bunch of crap cluttering up the library like the PS1 had, and it used to be that Nintendo thought the same thing.  Apparently that's changed, judging by the games we're seeing.

This is just getting scary now.

And now a bonus quote just for fun...

"I don't see much in the PSP's future of being much more than ports."

Wow.  Depending on your definition of the word port, I could say the same thing for the DS.  If port were to mean a game essentially copied directly from the same version on another console, I count one on the DS (Rayman), and two on the PSP (Tiger Woods, Ape Escape).  If your definition is games that are very similar to games on another system, then one could argue that the DS has Mario, Rayman, Wario Ware, Need for Speed, Ridge Racer, etc.  On the PSP, you've got Tiger Woods, Ridge Racer, Tony Hawk, Twisted Metal ... again, there's really little difference.  But I would argue that both systems are seeing games created specifically to take advantage of the hardware rather than being straight ports, and there is no evidence to support saying otherwise.  There will always be ports, but to say that the DS will get more original software than the PSP is naive.

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And LOL at the "serious gamer" comment. I'm sure that comment will bring just as much joy in a few years as Rick's statements have.

[Mario]

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

ahahahahah

How to Manage Your Forums - don't let former nintendo fans run it

ahahahahah

[NWR_Lindy]

Wow, I guess I'm not a serious gamer after-all...Thanks for telling me what I am and what I am not...

That wasn't a personal knock against anybody on this thread, Bill.  I'm just stating what I see around me.  When somebody asks me what game console they should buy, the first thing I ask them is what kinds of games they like.  They tell me, and this is how I respond:

1)  If they don't care about playing the most technologically advanced games out there, don't care about playing online, and want something to play with the kids and wife, I tell them to get a Wii.

2)  If they're into first-person shooters and RPGs with cutting-edge graphics, and want to play against other people online, I tell them to get a 360.

I think these are two entirely different audiences.  "Serious" isn't the right word for #2 of course ("serious" can be defined any number of ways), but however you want to phrase it, #2 is not #1.  I know a couple of guys that bought a Wii when it first came out, and wound up buying a 360 because Wii simply didn't have the games they were looking to play.  I'm sure this wasn't an isolated case of "Wii Defection" either.  Wii software is definitely skewing in a certain direction, and it isn't in the direction of 360/PS3 titles.

Bottom line is that if you want to play stuff like Gears of War, CoD4, Mass Effect, and other titles that skew towards a twenty-something-plus age group, having a Wii will only leave you disappointed.  There are games like that on Wii, but they are the exception rather than the rule.  On other consoles, it's the other way around.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I guess the housing marking, gas prices, and looming HD downfall is causing the hawdcaw to migrate towards Silks' home region.

[Shift Key]

Wii software is definitely skewing in a certain direction, and it isn't in the direction of 360/PS3 titles.

I still haven't found a game (either out or in the pipeline) that has made me rush out and get a 360 or PS3. Then again, I haven't had time to even answer glowing Wii message over the last fortnight, if that's indicative of my gaming habits.

[vudu]

When somebody asks me what game console they should buy, the first thing I ask them is what kinds of games they like.  They tell me, and this is how I respond:

I don't know anyone who would answer the question like either of your hypothetical responses.

I like fun games.  What system is right for me?

[Crimm]

When somebody asks me what game console they should buy, the first thing I ask them is what kinds of games they like.  They tell me, and this is how I respond:

I don't know anyone who would answer the question like either of your hypothetical responses.

I like fun games.  What system is right for me?

V.smile

[vudu]

If I wanted to learn I would download DK Jr. Math.

[NWR_Lindy]

I don't know anyone who would answer the question like either of your hypothetical responses.
I like fun games.  What system is right for me?

It depends on your definition of fun.  That's my point.  Not everybody's idea of fun is PWNING N00BZ in Halo 3 online multiplayer.  Then again, some people don't like Wii Fit and Wii Sports either.

Whether or not you have kids is huge as well.  I only know one couple that lets their 8-year-old son play the 360, and that's with Rock Band and Halo 3 while they play along.  Almost everyone else I know that has kids has a Wii, because they don't have to worry about mature content.  If they have a 360 or PS3, that's "Daddy's console" and the kids don't touch it.

The problem as I see it is that the middle ground is becoming smaller and smaller, hence the creation of terms like "Wii60".  The fact that that term even exists shows you that, in the minds of many, the two consoles cater to very different ends of the gamer taste spectrum.

[GoldenPhoenix]

No More Heroes, Scarface, Godfather, RE4, Manhunt 2, RE: UC, Strong Bad, Alone in the Dark,  House of the Dead,  Conduit, Medal of Honor, Mad World, all confirmed for KIDZ!

[animecyberrat]

No More Heroes, Scarface, Godfather, RE4, Manhunt 2, Conduit, Medal of Honor, Mad World, all confirmed for KIDZ!

Yeah because Mario Galaxies is hard core now also. The world just flip flopped on us.

[KDR_11k]

Strong Bad[..] all confirmed for KIDZ!

Television?!! Kids?!! Wait, do you people think I'm intended for children? Like, the littlest, tiniest babies? You know, they watch those shows on public television. I don't think I'm cut out for that sort of sugarjob.

Anyway, you know how often people listed all the M rated gameson the Gamecube? The list for the 360 is at least ten times as long as the Wii's.

[Arbok]

The problem as I see it is that the middle ground is becoming smaller and smaller, hence the creation of terms like "Wii60".  The fact that that term even exists shows you that, in the minds of many, the two consoles cater to very different ends of the gamer taste spectrum.

But that term was coined way before these systems were even released by fans eager to see the Playstation brand fall after years of dominating the other two...

Anyway, you know how often people listed all the M rated gameson the Gamecube? The list for the 360 is at least ten times as long as the Wii's.

True, but in the context of the kids being "safe from mature content"... does it really matter if the Wii has 50 M rated games or 100 in this case?

[MegaByte]

The problem as I see it is that the middle ground is becoming smaller and smaller

The problem as I see it is that the problem as other people see it is that the middle ground is becoming smaller and smaller... which then becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[Deguello]

The problem as I see it is that the middle ground is becoming smaller and smaller, hence the creation of terms like "Wii60".

Yeah I'm with Arbok here Lindy.  I haven't heard that term LATELY.  I heard it a whole lot after Sony stumbled through their E3 2006 presentation but lately all I've heard is just "Wii Wii Wii."  The actual amount of people who owned more than one console last generation was so infinitesimally small that it was insignificant.  To believe that any sizable chunk of the Wii owners also own 360's is pretty naive.

The 360 will end up with like the N64.  Fist-pumping hard-rawking UNF GO AMERICA console (as the N64 was the darling of the western publishers), but the loser in the end, except this time with less ground-breaking games.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Strong Bad[..] all confirmed for KIDZ!

Television?!! Kids?!! Wait, do you people think I'm intended for children? Like, the littlest, tiniest babies? You know, they watch those shows on public television. I don't think I'm cut out for that sort of sugarjob.

Anyway, you know how often people listed all the M rated gameson the Gamecube? The list for the 360 is at least ten times as long as the Wii's.

Now let's name good mature 360 games. There aren't a hole lot to speak of. No More Heroes and from what we've seen of Mad World look to beat the crap out of many 360 mature games when it comes to style and uniqueness. There are plenty of games on the Wii that are not casual games that are quality. I know for myself I play the Wii much more than my 360 or PS3, there is plenty on the console that interest me ranging from "casual" to the more "hardcore" titles. We also have to realize that DS had a similar problem within its first year (In fact it was WORSE in many respects), and now the system is one of the most diversified around. All we need is one "mature" new IP that is a hit and you will start to see a balance. In fact the future looks MORE bright for more "mature" playing games, not less with new developers stepping up to the plate like High Voltage and Platinum Games.

Also I think how you define "mature" is up in the air as well, it doesn't necessarily have to have a mature rating. Heck Zack and Wiki is far from a casual game, and it is one of the finest puzzle/adventures that has came out EVER. A kid would end up throwing their controller through the TV after playing it for awhile. Does the Wii tilt more casual? Definately but it also has one of the most diverse lineups of the 3 consoles. Also I'm not so sure I'd count Xbox 360 or PS3 as "RPG systems" because I can only think of one RPG that was any good and that is Eternal Sonata, the rest are comparable in quality to Opoona. I think the only really good RPG for 360 was Mass Effect and even that isn't a true RPG.

[blackfootsteps]

As a gamer, the Wii doesn't really cater to my interests any more.  It's a niche console - you get your Zeldas, Mario Galaxys, Smash Bros. Brawls, but that's about it.

The N64 and GC were dominated by 1st party software too. So maybe it's just that 'your Zeldas, Mario Galaxys' etc just don't do it for you anymore.