Author Topic: The Subspace Emissary Sucks  (Read 50084 times)

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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2008, 04:37:10 AM »
Cap and I unlocked Sonic by racing off the stage in a 1 man stock 300 times.

I'm not kidding. Took far less time than SSE would've.

I did that a few times too. Finally got to the point where I unlocked captain falcon. IN regards to the SSE, it seems like a mish mash of things that make no sense and has no cohesion, I really enjoy how the cutscenes have an exciting moment happening like you being surrounded by tons of enemies, or an epic chase, or something which is then followed by a shoehorned 2D level that really doesn't relate to what happened in the cutscene until you get to the certain points in it where another cutscene comes in. On the flip side I do enjoy Mission mode and classic mode.

Yeah, because no video game has ever had cut-scenes to set the mood than have the actual playable sections have a more of a...video game feel out of necessity. Why was everyone expecting a Bioware-level story for this? Super Smash Brothers is great, but it does not aspire to Kingdom Hearts greatness in that area.

I wasn't expecting it to be great, but I sure didn't expect it to be this long and tedious either. It does frustrate me because the reources put into the SSE could have been divided up amongst other areas of the game. Also you are right cutscenes do set the mood in games, but in SSE it has little to no connection with what you are doing when you start to play.
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Offline that Baby guy

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Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2008, 04:47:12 AM »
The last stage is worth about 30% of the completion value, and just has you fight all the characters and replay portions of each stage.  It takes a few hours, and you're playing something you already did.

Surely, this was unnecessary.  That time definitely would have been better fit elsewhere.  And online multi-man Brawl.  That mode is the most rediculous of them all.  No one I've ever talked to enjoyed multi-man melee, and multi-man brawl is no better.  Did they ever take feed-back about those two sections?

Offline Smash_Brother

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Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2008, 10:50:08 AM »
Beat 20 enemies in Cruel Brawl to unlock Megaman, lulz.

As for SSE, while it was cute for one play-through, I can safely say axing it in favor of more mutliplayer content would've been preferable, especially if they reminded Ganondorf that a sword is also usable as a weapon instead of just waving it around to insult your opponents.
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Offline Mikintosh

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Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2008, 11:39:37 AM »
Beat 20 enemies in Cruel Brawl to unlock Megaman, lulz.

As for SSE, while it was cute for one play-through, I can safely say axing it in favor of more mutliplayer content would've been preferable, especially if they reminded Ganondorf that a sword is also usable as a weapon instead of just waving it around to insult your opponents.

They. Weren't. Going. To.

Offline Mikintosh

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Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2008, 11:44:00 AM »
Cap and I unlocked Sonic by racing off the stage in a 1 man stock 300 times.

I'm not kidding. Took far less time than SSE would've.

I did that a few times too. Finally got to the point where I unlocked captain falcon. IN regards to the SSE, it seems like a mish mash of things that make no sense and has no cohesion, I really enjoy how the cutscenes have an exciting moment happening like you being surrounded by tons of enemies, or an epic chase, or something which is then followed by a shoehorned 2D level that really doesn't relate to what happened in the cutscene until you get to the certain points in it where another cutscene comes in. On the flip side I do enjoy Mission mode and classic mode.

Yeah, because no video game has ever had cut-scenes to set the mood than have the actual playable sections have a more of a...video game feel out of necessity. Why was everyone expecting a Bioware-level story for this? Super Smash Brothers is great, but it does not aspire to Kingdom Hearts greatness in that area.

I wasn't expecting it to be great, but I sure didn't expect it to be this long and tedious either. It does frustrate me because the reources put into the SSE could have been divided up amongst other areas of the game. Also you are right cutscenes do set the mood in games, but in SSE it has little to no connection with what you are doing when you start to play.

Well, as I said before, they were always planning a single player mode, so you may not like what they come up with, but the idea that the people who were tapped for SSE were going to work on multi-player content if only the stars had aligned is probably untrue and getting to be really tired to listen to. It's part of the game, no use wondering about what could have been (which wouldn't have been anyway).

Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
« Reply #30 on: March 10, 2008, 12:26:29 PM »
They had a team of over 100 people and worked on it for two and a half years, if they'd wanted no clones then we'd have no clones, if they'd wanted more characters we'd have more characters.
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Offline Nick DiMola

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Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
« Reply #31 on: March 10, 2008, 01:10:50 PM »
They had a team of over 100 people and worked on it for two and a half years, if they'd wanted no clones then we'd have no clones, if they'd wanted more characters we'd have more characters.

Unfortunately, I'd have to agree here. Though, I think that is the disheartening part of it all. Sakurai had to have some idea of what the fans wanted, and ultimately, aren't they the ones that matter the most? Sakurai should've put aside his personal feelings in favor of the feeling of the fans.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
« Reply #32 on: March 10, 2008, 01:13:13 PM »
Cap and I unlocked Sonic by racing off the stage in a 1 man stock 300 times.

I'm not kidding. Took far less time than SSE would've.

I did that a few times too. Finally got to the point where I unlocked captain falcon. IN regards to the SSE, it seems like a mish mash of things that make no sense and has no cohesion, I really enjoy how the cutscenes have an exciting moment happening like you being surrounded by tons of enemies, or an epic chase, or something which is then followed by a shoehorned 2D level that really doesn't relate to what happened in the cutscene until you get to the certain points in it where another cutscene comes in. On the flip side I do enjoy Mission mode and classic mode.

Yeah, because no video game has ever had cut-scenes to set the mood than have the actual playable sections have a more of a...video game feel out of necessity. Why was everyone expecting a Bioware-level story for this? Super Smash Brothers is great, but it does not aspire to Kingdom Hearts greatness in that area.

I wasn't expecting it to be great, but I sure didn't expect it to be this long and tedious either. It does frustrate me because the reources put into the SSE could have been divided up amongst other areas of the game. Also you are right cutscenes do set the mood in games, but in SSE it has little to no connection with what you are doing when you start to play.

Well, as I said before, they were always planning a single player mode, so you may not like what they come up with, but the idea that the people who were tapped for SSE were going to work on multi-player content if only the stars had aligned is probably untrue and getting to be really tired to listen to. It's part of the game, no use wondering about what could have been (which wouldn't have been anyway).

Once again, it is priorities and delegation of resources, those people could have worked on other content as well. Which is why I'll be happy when Sakurai isn't involved with the franchise anymore, he likes to forget that the series is about multiplayer first and foremost, not expanded adventure modes.  But of course people will suck down anything he throws their way and defend it like there was no other option when there in fact WAS.
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Offline DAaaMan64

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Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
« Reply #33 on: March 10, 2008, 01:16:13 PM »
I like SSE so far, but it does lack heart for the reasons mentioned.
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
« Reply #34 on: March 10, 2008, 01:31:07 PM »
This game sounds like it's so self-destructive.

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Offline ThePerm

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Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
« Reply #35 on: March 10, 2008, 01:37:39 PM »
You guys don't watch silent movies do you? I think SSE is great. This is a game i like, i'd play onlne more, but it barely works. I've tried like 20 times to brawl with people, but its only worked 4 times. And of the 4 times it was with the same people. I haven't even gotten to friend code brawls.

Um, there's a difference  between silent movies and the SSE mode. Silent movies have simpler stories which are conveyed by acted scenes and facial expressions. The SSE story, though, is convoluted due to the lack of clear details. Had we not gotten the basic details before the game's release we would have no idea what is going on.

Though, it seems that people either love or hate the SEE mode. Many reviewers are quick to point out that the Brawl doesn't work as well as a platformer engine. However, some fans seem to love this a lot, just as there are fans that hate this. Some friends of mine absolutely hated the mode and decided to unlock the characters by meeting the other requirements.

Silent movies do not necessarily have simple stories, some of them are extremely complex, like the Molochmaschine scene in Metropolis, unless you understood the allusion to what Moloch was in 1927 you couldn't even guess what they imply in that scene. As far as the cutscenes go, sure some of them are short, some of them have quite the loadtime, but one thing is for sure, is that when they play they have all my favorite video game characters doing a bunch of cool stuff. That i can't complain about. I suppose they could have done some of the cinema's in real time, but I can bet that to geth them to look that good than they would have to have spent more time working on the game.

I'm happy with SSE because if it was just multi-player than it would kinda suck. The game is still smash bros, and without sse it would just be melee online. Or barely online as its been for me. The series of smash bros has grown in popularity since its inception. There are a few people that were diehard fans of the n64 edition, but lemme tell you, when i first played the original I thought it was simply decent. After Melee however more people became diehard fans of the franchise. I have played tons and tons of fighting games in my life, I've loved them, but i have to say iv never played a full package. To say that the single player sucks because its not the best platformer in the world is ignoring that its a fighting game. Its no super mario world or castlevania, but it sure as hell is better than alot of mediocre trash that arrived on super nintendo. That being said, there has been a gradual improvement over the single player modes in the smash bros series, to say cut it out entirely on the next one or this one ignores the fact that by the next one it could be worth your time playing.

Its kinda strange how the game is so fun to play, but even stranger that i start off as an expert. There was absolutely no learning curve. The only thing that throws me off a little is Links boomerang is nerfed and that now I can be more dominat with bowser.

Also, as far as Ganondorf goes, just sounds like a bunch of bitching to me. Ganondorf doesn't have to be in the game at all. I never cared if his moves were like Captain Falcons, i just like his purply magical goodness. Ganondorf never carried a sword in Ocarina of Time, when melee came out WindWaker was not out, and didn't have his two swords, there was the video of him with the Zweihander, but that was never an official game, and was merely a demo. Not everyone is aware of that video, people who were aware never cared im sure, and liked Ganondorf just the same. To change his movesets and give him a sword would anger fans who liked playing as him in melee. Ganondorf had a sword in TP, but they really didn't change any other characters movesets much since the last game.  Don't expect Ganondorf to ever change unless they do something like i talked about in a previous thread where he has different stances alá Mortal Kombat Deception

As far as Sakurai goes, I had no idea who he was until he quit a few years ago. It seems as though with this game his status as director has been elevated, and thats maybe thats what he wanted when he left. Miyamoto gets credit for everything Nintendo makes, its at least nice to see someone get some credit. However, with credit comes flack too. I think i can agree however that his involvement in the next game should be less. As someone who's played a ton of fighting games, iv learned whats more rounded. I thinksit would be great to see someone from Aki/Asmik the creators of Toukon Retsudon(and the GOOD n64 wcw/wwf games). They made their games that included every wrestler 60+, their signature moves, character editors..oppertunities that were missed in this game.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2008, 01:45:56 PM by ThePerm »
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
« Reply #36 on: March 10, 2008, 01:48:53 PM »
I guess that's it.  Nintendo's Japanese game makers don't know how to make core games anymore.
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Offline Dirk Temporo

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Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
« Reply #37 on: March 10, 2008, 04:51:38 PM »
To change his movesets and give him a sword would anger fans who liked playing as him in melee.

I disagree. Ganondorf was my favorite character in Melee, and I was still hoping they'd change up his moveset and give him a sword.
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Offline DAaaMan64

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Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2008, 04:54:11 PM »
To change his movesets and give him a sword would anger fans who liked playing as him in melee.

How many people main the same person game-to-game?  Not me.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
« Reply #39 on: March 10, 2008, 05:02:55 PM »
Well, i'm still really kickass with link, of the games online i played so far, iv whipped ass. Then again I could main Bowser this game.
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Offline that Baby guy

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Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
« Reply #40 on: March 10, 2008, 05:05:37 PM »
I'm going with Ice Climbers, Dedede, Diddy, and Ness, I think.  Maybe throw in Bowser.  For some reason, I don't like Mario any more, but he tried to fit in there.  Diddy replaced him.

Offline Mikintosh

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Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
« Reply #41 on: March 10, 2008, 06:01:23 PM »
You guys don't watch silent movies do you? I think SSE is great. This is a game i like, i'd play onlne more, but it barely works. I've tried like 20 times to brawl with people, but its only worked 4 times. And of the 4 times it was with the same people. I haven't even gotten to friend code brawls.

Um, there's a difference  between silent movies and the SSE mode. Silent movies have simpler stories which are conveyed by acted scenes and facial expressions. The SSE story, though, is convoluted due to the lack of clear details. Had we not gotten the basic details before the game's release we would have no idea what is going on.

Though, it seems that people either love or hate the SEE mode. Many reviewers are quick to point out that the Brawl doesn't work as well as a platformer engine. However, some fans seem to love this a lot, just as there are fans that hate this. Some friends of mine absolutely hated the mode and decided to unlock the characters by meeting the other requirements.

Silent movies do not necessarily have simple stories, some of them are extremely complex, like the Molochmaschine scene in Metropolis, unless you understood the allusion to what Moloch was in 1927 you couldn't even guess what they imply in that scene. As far as the cutscenes go, sure some of them are short, some of them have quite the loadtime, but one thing is for sure, is that when they play they have all my favorite video game characters doing a bunch of cool stuff. That i can't complain about. I suppose they could have done some of the cinema's in real time, but I can bet that to geth them to look that good than they would have to have spent more time working on the game.

I'm happy with SSE because if it was just multi-player than it would kinda suck. The game is still smash bros, and without sse it would just be melee online. Or barely online as its been for me. The series of smash bros has grown in popularity since its inception. There are a few people that were diehard fans of the n64 edition, but lemme tell you, when i first played the original I thought it was simply decent. After Melee however more people became diehard fans of the franchise. I have played tons and tons of fighting games in my life, I've loved them, but i have to say iv never played a full package. To say that the single player sucks because its not the best platformer in the world is ignoring that its a fighting game. Its no super mario world or castlevania, but it sure as hell is better than alot of mediocre trash that arrived on super nintendo. That being said, there has been a gradual improvement over the single player modes in the smash bros series, to say cut it out entirely on the next one or this one ignores the fact that by the next one it could be worth your time playing.

Its kinda strange how the game is so fun to play, but even stranger that i start off as an expert. There was absolutely no learning curve. The only thing that throws me off a little is Links boomerang is nerfed and that now I can be more dominat with bowser.

Also, as far as Ganondorf goes, just sounds like a bunch of bitching to me. Ganondorf doesn't have to be in the game at all. I never cared if his moves were like Captain Falcons, i just like his purply magical goodness. Ganondorf never carried a sword in Ocarina of Time, when melee came out WindWaker was not out, and didn't have his two swords, there was the video of him with the Zweihander, but that was never an official game, and was merely a demo. Not everyone is aware of that video, people who were aware never cared im sure, and liked Ganondorf just the same. To change his movesets and give him a sword would anger fans who liked playing as him in melee. Ganondorf had a sword in TP, but they really didn't change any other characters movesets much since the last game.  Don't expect Ganondorf to ever change unless they do something like i talked about in a previous thread where he has different stances alá Mortal Kombat Deception

As far as Sakurai goes, I had no idea who he was until he quit a few years ago. It seems as though with this game his status as director has been elevated, and thats maybe thats what he wanted when he left. Miyamoto gets credit for everything Nintendo makes, its at least nice to see someone get some credit. However, with credit comes flack too. I think i can agree however that his involvement in the next game should be less. As someone who's played a ton of fighting games, iv learned whats more rounded. I thinksit would be great to see someone from Aki/Asmik the creators of Toukon Retsudon(and the GOOD n64 wcw/wwf games). They made their games that included every wrestler 60+, their signature moves, character editors..oppertunities that were missed in this game.

Eww, no. The second someone starts mixing wrestling with my Nintendo is the day I sell all my gaming crap and buy a very expensive book. And the character editor...fine (only for create-a-character mode, and no stat changing because that'd destroy the  game balance), but...signature moves? Aren't all the characters' moves "signature moves"? What else do you want? And if I hear "I dunno, I just wanted...more", then I'm just gonna have to hit somebody.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
« Reply #42 on: March 10, 2008, 06:16:08 PM »
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Offline darknight06

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Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
« Reply #43 on: March 10, 2008, 08:50:34 PM »
People expecting too much and then getting burned when the final product comes out.  Good thing I didn't go salivating over this game for the last 2 and a half years, I'm enjoying it that much more for it.  I'm not seeing what's so bad about SSE.  It's everything adventure was in Melee and then some.  I've particularly enjoyed the DK section of it.

Offline Ceric

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Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
« Reply #44 on: March 10, 2008, 10:34:13 PM »
I just started it I agree.  I am almost to the point where I'll just spend the 8 hours playing the coputer in versus to get the character I want.  This is like plain jello.  It has everything to be great but the flavoring.  A combo count would have done worlds of good in my book and now I'm stuck somewhere that won't let me down and it has no way to proceed that I can see.  Plus, this is my first run through, I haven't met any secret characters yet and I've gone through every door I can find.  I dread having to go a second time just for that.  Also Pikachu makes more sense how they set it up then Yoshi and link.
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Offline that Baby guy

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Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
« Reply #45 on: March 10, 2008, 11:13:42 PM »
You find the secret characters after you beat the game.  Stages with unfound things are marked with those flags, and once you beat the game, when the secret character stages are added, a flag is added.

Offline Ceric

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Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
« Reply #46 on: March 10, 2008, 11:17:35 PM »
Arg... Then it be quicker for me to just play the matches.  I need to anyway to get some items.
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Offline Mikintosh

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Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
« Reply #47 on: March 10, 2008, 11:27:14 PM »
I just started it I agree.  I am almost to the point where I'll just spend the 8 hours playing the coputer in versus to get the character I want.  This is like plain jello.  It has everything to be great but the flavoring.  A combo count would have done worlds of good in my book and now I'm stuck somewhere that won't let me down and it has no way to proceed that I can see.  Plus, this is my first run through, I haven't met any secret characters yet and I've gone through every door I can find.  I dread having to go a second time just for that.  Also Pikachu makes more sense how they set it up then Yoshi and link.

What does a combo count have to do with anything?

Offline Bill Aurion

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Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
« Reply #48 on: March 11, 2008, 12:09:56 AM »
I've found myself waiting to start hating the SSE based on everyone's impressions, but no go...I still love it... ^_^
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Offline Dirk Temporo

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Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
« Reply #49 on: March 11, 2008, 01:39:20 AM »
So in the Great Maze, do I have to win every encounter in the Maze to get to the end? If I do, that's pretty retarded.
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