Topic: my crazy idea for starfox

[NWR_insanolord]

You should get it on the Virtual Console, it's easily worth 1000 points, especially considering you haven't played it before.

[Maverick]

I don't want to be offensive, but I kind of do think you lose your credibility by not playing SF64.  You're trying to tell all of us the formula needs to be changed without having experienced the prime example of the "formula".  SF64 is arguably the best of the series (only arguable when compared to the original), and it's what most of us desire out of a new Star Fox title.

[walkingdead2]

you know you guys are also missing my original point.  the non linear game play was only 1/3rd of what i wanted.  i just kind of got drawn in to the argument with every one else.  my big thing is i want a big grand theatrical story line.  that's what really gets me to play a game.  it could be compleat crap but if the story is good i will play it to the end. (example final fantasy 12)

its my biggest complaint with the majority of Nintendo games.  no or little story line.

I'm sorry I'm just not a fan of on rails games.  no matter how good sf64 is.  back in the day there was a place for them.  now i just see it as lazy level design.

[that Baby guy]

Watch a movie.

Actually, most games with "...big grand theatrical story line(s)..." are incredibly linear.  No, they aren't "on rails," but to progress, you'll be performing routine actions that were predetermined by the game's designer in a specific, predesigned order.  Most non-western RPG's are built that way.  Most games with in-depth stories are built that way.  A game on rails is just a game designed for a specific play experience.  It can have a good storyline, or it can have a terrible one, but regardless, the progression is about as linear as most other games out there, whether it's called out that way or not.

[NWR_insanolord]

If your main focus in games is the story you really shouldn't have bought a Wii. Third parties refuse to take it seriously and Nintendo, based on the philosophy of Shigeru Miyamoto, the greatest human being who ever lived and has never been wrong about anything ever, doesn't put big stories in games.

[Nick DiMola]

I'm sorry I'm just not a fan of on rails games.  no matter how good sf64 is.  back in the day there was a place for them.  now i just see it as lazy level design.

Well you have fallen for the biggest load of crap in game journalism. Going from Point A to Point B on rails is not lazy level design, it is a design choice. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is lazy. There are plenty of creative, exciting things that can be done on-rails in a shooter fashion, go play Panzer Dragoon Orta or Sin & Punishment or most importantly STAR FOX 64.

To address your other point about story, a grand story would be great, but it will always feel ridiculous in the SF universe if the characters are to remain the same. Good story line or terrible story line, in a game like SF, it isn't going to change the play experience much. It may make you feel as if your purpose is greater, but the play style will be identical.

Debating about something and not even playing the prime example you are debating against is ridiculous.

[UltimatePartyBear]

you know you guys are also missing my original point.  the non linear game play was only 1/3rd of what i wanted.  i just kind of got drawn in to the argument with every one else.  my big thing is i want a big grand theatrical story line.  that's what really gets me to play a game.  it could be compleat crap but if the story is good i will play it to the end. (example final fantasy 12)

its my biggest complaint with the majority of Nintendo games.  no or little story line.

I'm sorry I'm just not a fan of on rails games.  no matter how good sf64 is.  back in the day there was a place for them.  now i just see it as lazy level design.

It sounds to me like you just want a grand space opera game from Nintendo, and you chose the wrong franchise for it based simply on superficial similarities.  Star Fox 64, incidentally, has a grand space opera storyline which also happens to be completely ridiculous thanks to the characters and sheer over-the-topness.  That's part of its charm.

No, Star Fox as a franchise cannot support a serious, deep story by design.  You should really be asking for a new franchise.  A new franchise wouldn't carry any of the baggage that's causing all this arguing.  You should probably be asking somebody other than Nintendo, too.

[walkingdead2]

Watch a movie.

Actually, most games with "...big grand theatrical story line(s)..." are incredibly linear.  No, they aren't "on rails," but to progress, you'll be performing routine actions that were predetermined by the game's designer in a specific, predesigned order.  Most non-western RPG's are built that way.  Most games with in-depth stories are built that way.  A game on rails is just a game designed for a specific play experience.  It can have a good storyline, or it can have a terrible one, but regardless, the progression is about as linear as most other games out there, whether it's called out that way or not.

i want to thank you for not reading what i have writ en and instead just taking one of my points and using it out of context.  you should go in to politics your spin is so good.

and i want to thank the rest of you for being so closed minded that you wont respect my opinion and instead just come down on me because I'm "close minded" and because i didn't play 1 of the many games in this franchise.  i want to thank none of you for even coming close to agreeing with me on any of my points and just nit picking 1 of them.  i Finlay get it.  as much as you all bitch and complain the majority of you on this board will continue to take was Nintendo gives you.

i will always play the super Mario games, i will always give Zelda a shot, and i will always buy Nintendo new system... but I'm going to vote with my dollars and not buy crap.  i wish you would do the same.

[Maverick]

I agree that a great story would be... great.  Like you, I will look passed a game's faults if the story and cinematics suck me in to the universe.  An example of this that I'm currently playing is Devil May Cry 4.  I suck at it, I'm playing on the easiest difficulty and I'm still having trouble, but I keep going 'cause I love watching the cutscenes.

I apologize if I've missed some of your other arguments, I just noticed the back in forth going on about the "on-rails" gameplay, and to me, that's what the "feel" of a Star Fox game is about.

The problem that most of us have with recent Star Fox games is that they are NOT SF64.  That game is a true Nintendo classic, and the majority of us just want to see the franchise return to that level.  For me, it struck a perfect balance of difficulty and fun.  The original Star Fox, although a great game, was way to freaking hard for me on the harder paths, and I could only ever beat it on the "primary" course.

[NWR_insanolord]

Watch a movie.

Actually, most games with "...big grand theatrical story line(s)..." are incredibly linear.  No, they aren't "on rails," but to progress, you'll be performing routine actions that were predetermined by the game's designer in a specific, predesigned order.  Most non-western RPG's are built that way.  Most games with in-depth stories are built that way.  A game on rails is just a game designed for a specific play experience.  It can have a good storyline, or it can have a terrible one, but regardless, the progression is about as linear as most other games out there, whether it's called out that way or not.

i want to thank you for not reading what i have writ en and instead just taking one of my points and using it out of context.  you should go in to politics your spin is so good.

and i want to thank the rest of you for being so closed minded that you wont respect my opinion and instead just come down on me because I'm "close minded" and because i didn't play 1 of the many games in this franchise.  i want to thank none of you for even coming close to agreeing with me on any of my points and just nit picking 1 of them.  i Finlay get it.  as much as you all bitch and complain the majority of you on this board will continue to take was Nintendo gives you.

i will always play the super Mario games, i will always give Zelda a shot, and i will always buy Nintendo new system... but I'm going to vote with my dollars and not buy crap.  i wish you would do the same.

We respect your opinion, but that doesn't mean we have to agree with it. We give you a hard time for not playing one of the many games in the franchise because it is almost universally agreed to be the best in the series and it makes sense to know the franchise if you're going to suggest changes. You have suggested things that just don't fit with the series. Star Fox doesn't need to be rebooted again. Star Fox shouldn't have a grand, deep story, it doesn't fit. There is nothing wrong with Star Fox gameplay, they just need to go back to more of a Star Fox 64 type of game. I think your suggestions could make for a good game, but shoehorning it into Star Fox isn't the way to go about it. Party Bear is right, this is not a game Nintendo would make, but in the right hands Factor 5 it could be great. Lastly, a piece of advice, if a thread as tame as this has you resorting to insulting everyone else here like you did there you aren't coming into this forum with the right attitude.

[Mikintosh]

Watch a movie.

Actually, most games with "...big grand theatrical story line(s)..." are incredibly linear.  No, they aren't "on rails," but to progress, you'll be performing routine actions that were predetermined by the game's designer in a specific, predesigned order.  Most non-western RPG's are built that way.  Most games with in-depth stories are built that way.  A game on rails is just a game designed for a specific play experience.  It can have a good storyline, or it can have a terrible one, but regardless, the progression is about as linear as most other games out there, whether it's called out that way or not.

i want to thank you for not reading what i have writ en and instead just taking one of my points and using it out of context.  you should go in to politics your spin is so good.

and i want to thank the rest of you for being so closed minded that you wont respect my opinion and instead just come down on me because I'm "close minded" and because i didn't play 1 of the many games in this franchise.  i want to thank none of you for even coming close to agreeing with me on any of my points and just nit picking 1 of them.  i Finlay get it.  as much as you all bitch and complain the majority of you on this board will continue to take was Nintendo gives you.

i will always play the super Mario games, i will always give Zelda a shot, and i will always buy Nintendo new system... but I'm going to vote with my dollars and not buy crap.  i wish you would do the same.

"Finlay"...

Star Fox: Assault actually comes close to what you're talking about, as in it actually has a story with twists along the way, unlike Star Fox 64, though it doesn't get credit for that from a lot of the old-school elitists. Personally, I just wish they'd announce they were producing another Star Fox game at *all*; I remember the five year wait between 64 and Adventures all too well.

[EasyCure]

I've only beaten the original once, on the middle path, and i've never been able to access the black hole

[NWR_insanolord]

Watch a movie.

Actually, most games with "...big grand theatrical story line(s)..." are incredibly linear.  No, they aren't "on rails," but to progress, you'll be performing routine actions that were predetermined by the game's designer in a specific, predesigned order.  Most non-western RPG's are built that way.  Most games with in-depth stories are built that way.  A game on rails is just a game designed for a specific play experience.  It can have a good storyline, or it can have a terrible one, but regardless, the progression is about as linear as most other games out there, whether it's called out that way or not.

i want to thank you for not reading what i have writ en and instead just taking one of my points and using it out of context.  you should go in to politics your spin is so good.

and i want to thank the rest of you for being so closed minded that you wont respect my opinion and instead just come down on me because I'm "close minded" and because i didn't play 1 of the many games in this franchise.  i want to thank none of you for even coming close to agreeing with me on any of my points and just nit picking 1 of them.  i Finlay get it.  as much as you all bitch and complain the majority of you on this board will continue to take was Nintendo gives you.

i will always play the super Mario games, i will always give Zelda a shot, and i will always buy Nintendo new system... but I'm going to vote with my dollars and not buy crap.  i wish you would do the same.

"Finlay"...

Star Fox: Assault actually comes close to what you're talking about, as in it actually has a story with twists along the way, unlike Star Fox 64, though it doesn't get credit for that from a lot of the old-school elitists. Personally, I just wish they'd announce they were producing another Star Fox game at *all*; I remember the five year wait between 64 and Adventures all too well.

Yes, Assault has a pretty good story that's probably about at the limit of how deep and serious you can get with Star Fox. The problem is that the gameplay isn't up to the standards of the first two (though I enjoyed it more than most people seemed to).

[walkingdead2]

as for my insulting of every one else... i just cant believe that I'm the only one who feels the way i do.  and i felt insulted quite a bit by some of these comments towards me.  does it make me the better person? no, but i never thought that i needed to be.

[Dasmos]

Ugh, I never got why anyone would like the original StarFox.

[oohhboy]

I still have no idea why people go on about SF64 being the best. The original was absolutely the best. Graphics aside, it was intense, it was hard (Well not really these days for me). With far more limited graphical ability it had far more imaginative bosses. Sure there were furries, but the explosions were hard and not cartoony like 64. The music was also superior.

One of the worse "Features" that was introduced in to the games was the spin deflection move. No longer did you have to dodge incoming fire. Gone the cockpit mode. The nova bomb nerfed in both visually and power.

But SF64 gave us all range mode and one of the few examples of it truly working. Spoilers for a decade old game coming up. The defend the Great Fox from missiles level. It was a well designed level. None of that destroy spawners crap from Assault. The objective was to maintain your existence as a fighting entity.

Story has never been important for Star Fox. Having played every game except for Adventures it's a non issue. Command quite frankly had some pretty absurd endings that provoked more than one laugh. The story writes itself. Bad guys that way, heres some cash prizes for your troubles, go get them.

Several key things need to be done regardless of whether the next game will be on-rails or all range. need more vertical space. Get rid of  the spin move. Get rid of the cartoony enemies for more threatening looking ones and more aggressive AI. If they are going to use all range mode in space, get rid of the horizon. More speed for on rails. Make your wing men more useful instead of guys that you have to keep bailing out. Factor 5.

[UltimatePartyBear]

One of the worse "Features" that was introduced in to the games was the spin deflection move. No longer did you have to dodge incoming fire.

That's always been a feature of Star Fox.  It was just a little harder to do in the original.

[NWR_insanolord]

No one forces you to Do a barrel roll! I never use it. And you can change the view to inside the cockpit, C up.

[Armak88]

I don't think that an epic story would necessarily be a problem for Starfox, it would just have to be treated properly. What Earthbound was to RPG's Starfox would have to be for it's genre (space shooters?). Starfox is the perfect vehicle to poke fun at an archetype while still, for the most part, following the archetype. It could be done, but I wouldn't want the story to become the main focus at the expense of gameplay. The gameplay should be tight and fast, and that is something that is far more necessary than a great story. I don't think that we should have to make a choice though. Why decide between story and gameplay, can't they both be good?

[walkingdead2]

you know it was something that was brought up on the pod cast that i didn't even think of before.  the whole time i was thinking of games in the vein of wing commander.  but if they used the model of say the rouge squadron games that would be good as well.  its not on rails and its not an open world but its both at the same time.  i would be very happy with that.  the big thing for me is good controls, and a good story.  if they pulled that off they could render it on snes hardware for all i care.


oh yea i still hate the on foot crap.

[DAaaMan64]

I beat StarFox 2 on Friday evening and let me tell you, StarFox Command is WIPE MY ASS **** compared to StarFox 2.  StarFox 2 is a GREAT game and the english version with this adapter should be played by all.

[animecyberrat]

Not to go off topic but can someone please re-explain to me why Adventures was so bad? I honestly don't get it. It was my favorite in the series so far. I have the first two and they were good but for me Adventures was the best one. I never played Assault and I don't have the DS version either but out of the three I have played I really liked Dinosaur Planet a lot.


I mean it actually got you into the story, it had real character development, they controls worked just fine it wasn't at all a terribly hard game, no where near as hard as the previous two. Hell the final boss was about the easiest final boss ever out side of Castlevania Dawn of Sorrow.

I think I agree with most people that a new Star Fox game would work best if it stuck tot he original formula, but I don't see why they can't do an on-foot SF Adventure-type game also.

Honestly I think the only reason people hate SFA is *because* it was made by Rare right when they defected. I honestly think that is all it is. Because the last time people talked about what was bad about it, they biggest gripe *was* it was "too linear"

Correct me if I am wrong but that is how it looks to me because right before it came out everyone was talking about how cool it looked then Rare ditches Nintendo for MS and allof a sudden everything Rare did sucked.

[DAaaMan64]

I don't hate SFA, I really don't.  I'd call it good but not great.  Reasons:

1.  The flying missions felt and looked tacked on.  I mean the flying missions really were not good at all.

2.  Many MANY frustrating and stupid puzzles in some levels in that game. I remember this completely terrible one where I had to hit all of the faces on the wall with my staff shot within the time limit, they were all up high and if I remember right the staff re-centered when ever you let go of the joy stick. It SUCKED and I was pissed.

3.  The controls were good, but didn't flow like a Zelda game would have.  I say that because I would have liked it to have felt that way. 

The game isn't bad, and it isn't the worst in the series(Command is), but it isn't a highlight of the series either.  The game got great reviews, another sign I wouldn't say it isn't to bad. 

BTW, reason 2 & 3 is typical Rare crap that got worse the closer Rare got to their sale.  And if your wondering my Resume includes beating every Star Fox game ever now.

[Nick DiMola]

Why does everyone hate SFA? That's pretty simple, it isn't Star Fox, it's Dinosaur Planet. It doesn't belong in the series and it pisses me off that it has become canon. On it's own right it was an ok game, not great, but I refuse to acknowledge it as a true Star Fox game.

[DAaaMan64]

Well Nintendo did kinda make it StarFox and it really doesn't belong there I agree. I do think had the flying sucked less and the other two things I said been different, I would have been fine with it being Canon.

I do think Krystal is a cool addition to the team, although I don't think she should be flying an Arwing.  She's never flown one before and she's already good enough to fly for StarFox, thats kinda weird to me.  But that was only in Command and I don't like that one much.