Topic: Where are the cell-shading naysayers?

[theaveng]

Gorgeous graphics.
Beautiful surround sound.
So why do I find the Wind Waker to be... well, boring.  Besides the extremely-long and uninteresting sea voyages, I'm finding Wind Waker to be a rather un-interesting game.  I'm not sure why?  I really enjoyed Ocarina of Time.  The story was compelling, the characters interesting, the dungeons fun (although the water temple got tedious).  But not so with Wind Waker upto Dungeon #3.  I hope the game gets better later.

Troy (Sidles away)  

[Link]

Boring??? Personally, I find it unbelievable just how compelling it is. I played it for 7 hours straight last night. The things I saw last night was anything but boring. In fact, why am I sitting here on the net? I've got some adventuring to do!

[Grey Ninja]

No wonder it's not killing you.  lol.

You have no freaking sense of adventure!

[theaveng]

Well I must have *some* sense of adventure, else I would not have enjoyed Ocarina.  And yeah, I feel "compelled" to see what comes next in the game, but when I get there I'm disappointed.  The first 2 dungeons weren't terribly exciting and the bosses ridiculously easy to beat.  In comparison, Ocarina's bosses all killed me at least once (Some... so many times I was ready to smash the cart with a hammer!).

Oh well, I'll keep plowing on to the end.  I don't want to waste my $25.

[VideoGamerX]

I really don't know what to say, Theaveng. You've been sort of a downer the past month or so, so I want to respond but I'm not sure what to say. I've found Wind Waker to be a lot of fun. I see exactly the opposite with the story and the numerous missions (main quests and side quests). I'm having a lot of fun just on Windfall Island seeing what all I can discover. Have you pulled away from the main quest and focused on the world itself?

I found Ocarina of Time terribly tedious as a whole. I'm finding I like that game less and less as I  play Wind Waker. OoT tends to just give me headaches (namely because of Navi and the ever so constant reminder that I need to go on to the next Hell-errr.. I mean dungeon). I can't believe how tortureous it can be to play OoT when you don't want to force yourself to submit to another 2-4 hour grueling adventure through a 5 mile long dungeon. I like the challenge of OoT, but Navi makes it a job and the world in OoT is disappointing. The fishing at lake Hylia is one of my favorites, but everything else the world offers is not quite as filling as I wanted out of Hyrule. On top of that, the OoT sound track as a whole is rather subpar compared to LttP's, the bosses are less fantastic, too. In fact, I found most of OoT's story to be repulsive to a certain point, but now that's not  quite as true, especially with Wind Waker to compliment it. I like the set as a whole a lot better.

I don't want to be misunderstood in how I feel about OoT, but I definitely think Wind Waker has a lot better feel to it. In my opinion, OoT is boring compared to Wind Waker. I can definitely see why some people like Majora's Mask more (having not played MM myself to be honest) when they claim OoT simply didn't have enough side quests. That's just it, fans of stressful frustrating dungeons flock to Ocarina of Time, everyone else looking for a good adventure-roleplaying experience pick up the other Zelda games. I haven't felt this good about a Zelda game since a Link to the Past, and to be quite frank, if LttP had consisted of nothing but the Ice dungeon, the haunted forest dungeon, and the other frustrating parts, I would have liked it less. Wind Waker has several challenges that are quite perplexing. On top of that, Wind Waker just feels like a world of adventure because you never know what's over the next wave. Just to be a little curious (and push the envelope), have you spent time in town both during the day and at night? Have you taken the time to venture to certain places during different phases of the moon? Also pay attention to the weather in certain places. There are rewards for paying attention to the world as it evolves around you.

Yeah, keep plowing through to the end. You'll have wasted your money if that's all you do.

[Grey Ninja]

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Originally posted by: theaveng
Well I must have *some* sense of adventure, else I would not have enjoyed Ocarina.  And yeah, I feel "compelled" to see what comes next in the game, but when I get there I'm disappointed.  The first 2 dungeons weren't terribly exciting and the bosses ridiculously easy to beat.  In comparison, Ocarina's bosses all killed me at least once (Some... so many times I was ready to smash the cart with a hammer!).

Oh well, I'll keep plowing on to the end.  I don't want to waste my $25.

Well, what's really engrossing me is sailing into uncharted waters, digging up buried treasure (figuratively speaking), collecting pictographs, dueling with enemies, and finishing the odd dungeon.  I am totally into this game, but I have done very little plotwise to tell the truth.  I have just got the bow and that's about as far as I am.  You have almost caught up to me by now.  

[Koopa Troopa]

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I really don't know what to say, Theaveng. You've been sort of a downer the past month or so, so I want to respond but I'm not sure what to say. I've found Wind Waker to be a lot of fun.

He has always been that way. I am nearly convinced he is one of the more patient, and cunning PS2 fanboys


But seriously, don't worry about the long ocean voyages, this can be alleviated significantly, and you're not too far from being able to do this.

I do agree that the monsters are fairly easy. The bosses are difficult, until you figure out the trick to beating them(I don't ever listen to the hints from Tetra's stone), then they are about medium difficulty. Aside from the difficulty level I can't think of anything I dislike, if I could wish for one thing, it would be be: having the option of "hard", or "extra hard" difficulty level. To be perfectly honest I think EVERY game should have different difficulty levels, and the should range from pathetically easy, to so hard it makes you want to rip your hair out.

With all that said, I LOVE Wind Waker, it is my new favorite game of the next-gen consoles.


Also with that said, We should all contact Nintendo, and plead for an option for an insane difficulty option in all of it's upcoming games.

[Grey Ninja]

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Originally posted by: Koopa Troopa

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I really don't know what to say, Theaveng. You've been sort of a downer the past month or so, so I want to respond but I'm not sure what to say. I've found Wind Waker to be a lot of fun.

He has always been that way. I am nearly convinced he is one of the more patient, and cunning PS2 fanboys

Ah, kind of like a Pokemon using Bide... just saving up his power for one day when he nukes us ALL!  RUN RUN RUN!!!!  HE'S COMING!!!

[Rellik]

Tetra's Stone?

Why does it nearly never say anything to me?  Only a couple times in the forbidden forest, when I was trying to do something like lifting the stone heads before I had the *item* I needed.  It never gave me hints on any bosses or anything...

Oh well.

Please don't say anything about theaveng... that's just stupid.  Maybe it's true, but it's just downright sad to be suspecting people like that.  Sure, he's a regular at some XBox forums, but that doesn't mean he is one of those anti-GC fanboys who are bent on destruction and think it's really funny to act like an as$-hole.  Maybe he just doesn't like Wind Waker?

Personally, I found everything so far completely enthralling.  Well, not everything... the Earth Temple is kind of making me not really too excited about the prospect of getting into the Wind Temple.  And I think that Korok side quest with the 20 minutes thing is really annoying... what do you get for that anyway?  And another thing, I hate it when I open a chest and it's a Treasure Map... I mean, who really cares?!  Yay, 200 rupees... except harder to find.  I still think that in the next Zelda games there should be a large variety of items, like in RPG's... you know, like special bows that cut the magic used in half, spells that cause double damage for a limited amount of time, different kinds of armor, defensive rings, et cetera.  Pretty much everything but the sword... that should stay with the traditional 4 levels.

But other than that, I've just got to say, WOW.  I mean, this incorporates the human aspect of Majora's Mask with the vastness of OoT's world (hey, it felt vast to me) and also provides something 100% fresh.  I think it just takes some imagination... plus, alot of people just expect something to be bad automatically when everyone is hyped about it, and go into it feeling hyped about it, but subconsciously are preparing to be disapointed, whether they actually like it or not.  Still, once again, theaveng may just not like the game.

Theaveng, I still think you should put some more effort into liking this game.  Saying this game is boring is like saying Metroid Prime doesn't have a plot.  You have to find fun where you can, and get involved; otherwise you'll only see the shell, which is a linear game where you sail from one dungeon to the other.  This is, really, just a shell; the dungeons and all that stuff makes up like 10% of the game as a whole (not length-wise, cuz I dont know that, but emphasis-wise) and when combined in that proportion the dungeons really shine, plus all the other stuff is worth it.

[couchmonkey]

I think a lot of it comes down to personal taste.  Challenge in particular is something that is very personal, some people prefer a harder challenge than others and on top of that everyone has different skill levels.  I for one am perfectly fine with not dying over and over again, I find that tedious.  Other people find exploring tedious.  
Personally, I am slightly disappointed in the game's challenge level, but I'm loving it so much I don't care.

[VideoGamerX]

On the contrary, there is a reason I specifically said Theaveng has been a bit of a downer the past month. I read a lot of posts (even if I don't reply too often) and Theaveng's posts are some of the ones I pay more attention to. In fact, I even look to him for more of the intelligent input into discussions, which is why I'm a bit taken aback by his disappointment with Wind Waker. I kind of thought this would be a game he had something positive to say about it (afterall, it's one of the more lighthearted fun games). It's no big deal, I just felt it was kind of strange that he's been a bit skeptical about this game long before it released. Now he acts like it might be a waste of $25 and I just find it extremely hard to believe that he could legitimately say that when compared to the simply magnificent titles released on all other platforms. There are few games that have the quality and attention to detail that a Final Fantasy or Legend of Zelda have (even if they do somewhat disappoint)... he seemed like the kind of guy that sits down and enjoys a game for what it is.

It's his opinion on this one game, but it just seems a bit unexpected.

As for the point brought up about the treasure chests, I feel the same way. I really enjoy searching for the treasures, I just wish there was more variety, rarity, and usefulness to them. I mean, sure, the treasure chests are a good way to make some money when you need it (allbeit they're pretty much out of the way and useless). The rupees are simply not enticing enough. I do it for pure thrill of clearing them out, though. I don't want this to venture any further into RPG'dom with special magic reducing crossbows and flaming swords of Visceroth, but some rare and possibly useful items would be nice. Something to attain that isn't so ordinary. I mean, even extra tacky yet rare and special jewelry. Something to collect. Something to sell when you really need cash.

The super hidden treasures just aren't typical to the Zelda series unless it's heart pieces, 200 rupees, or a select item or two.

Really, I don't like uncovering a secret underground chamber that involves solving puzzles, fighting monster, and junk that leads me to a  chest that.... SURPRISE! Has has something pretty cheap and worthless in it. Just how I feel...

[Hostile Creation]

I haven't played it, but I'm positive I'll love it.

[RahXephon]

I can just say that i could play the game forever, as long as i can keep clim bing in those wooden subs and figting monlins, soaring as seagulls, visting all the poeple all over.  PLaying all the very very fun mini games(i love the "BATTLESHIP-esque one), playing through dungeons a couple of times, collecting 5000 RUPEESSS!!!!!!!!!! seeing the gorgeous graphics, reading the UNBELIEVABLELY HILARIOUS TINGLE SCRIPT.  ANd maybe beating the game some day......

[Marcus Arillius]

PLEASE MARK YOUR SPOILERS PEOPLE!  I know this is off topic but I'm reading some posts and people are not marking their spoilers and its annoying.  Thanks.

[Koopa Troopa]

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Ah, kind of like a Pokemon using Bide... just saving up his power for one day when he nukes us ALL! RUN RUN RUN!!!! HE'S COMING!!!

LoL!

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Please don't say anything about theaveng... that's just stupid. Maybe it's true, but it's just downright sad to be suspecting people like that. Sure, he's a regular at some XBox forums, but that doesn't mean he is one of those anti-GC fanboys who are bent on destruction and think it's really funny to act like an as$-hole. Maybe he just doesn't like Wind Waker?

This must be directed towards me. All I can say is "Right...". I lied, here comes more...

First of all my comment was in good fun, hence the friendly emoticon at the end. I also went on to say the phrase "But seriously" which should have tipped you off. You obviously didn't feel the need to read much, or perhaps it just didn't sink in.

I can also tell from your post that you don't have a clue. TheAveng doesn't own an XBox (last I checked), so I doubt his attending any XBox forums has anything to do with XBox fanboyism, infact he strikes me as anti-XBox. What I said was "PS2 fanboy", and had I been serious, I said it in a most complimentary way, citing him as one of the more refined PS2 fanboys.


 

[thecubedcanuck]

I am sure the Aveng's reasons for not liking wind waker are similar to not liking prime. It is a text fest.
I loved WW at first, but I too have grown bored of it already, similar to what happened with Metroid, I just am sick of reading non stop.
Maybe it is my tastes that have changed, I dont know for sure, but I havent been blown away by a nintendo game in a while, Sigh.

[theaveng]

I didn't mind Metroid Prime's text.  It was all the scanning and looking around that I found tedious.  I preferred Super Metroid's almost non-stop running.

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Originally posted by: VideoGamerX
I'm having a lot of fun just on Windfall Island seeing what all I can discover. Have you pulled away from the main quest and focused on the world itself?

The idea of "exploring" has no appeal to me.  It's like the pointless collection fests in Starfox Adventures.  Also if I did explore, I'd rather hop in my car and explore the real world rather than Zelda's fantasy world.

I prefer a "true" RPG experience where the emphasis is on battles and survival... rather than Zelda's emphasis on puzzles/exploration... neither of which appeal to me.  I like the emphasis on speed and action that a game like Kingdom Hearts would have.

Troy (Sidles away)

[theaveng]

SWORDFIGHTING PRACTICE WITH GRANDPA:
100 times = money
300 times = lots of money
500 times = heart piece
times = ??

What comes next?  Does he keep giving you stuff?

[VideoGamerX]

Are you talking about the number of hits before he hits you three times? If so... boy do I feel gipped. I hit him over 160 times and caved in because it felt pointless and I think all he did was upgrade my title from page. I guess I needed to keep doing it.

I agree with you, theaveng. I see where you're coming from. I'm a bit more of a diverse gamer (fairly imaginative) in that I like fast-paced games as much as simulators (I'm a SimCity fan... just to give an example of slow, unactive, somewhat pointless gameplay that I enjoy).

I'm the same way about some things. Like with Super Mario Sunshihne, I really liked parts of the game for being very enjoyable, but the overall experience was not what I wanted from a Super Mario "Anything". They missed the boat on a Mario game with that title overall because I don't find it creative or fun to replay the same old levels over and over again especially when it comes to "Find all 20 red coins!" Bah... Give me the level-based platformer where I continue to advance toward Bowser and saving the world.

But here is the misconception... Ocarina of Time played like that with the dungeon-after-dungeon rampage toward Gannon. I hate that game right now. There seems to be a neverending urgency for me to enter the next headache. The dungeon design is disappointing to me because I wanted "A Link to the Past" style dungeons and bosses. That's my fault as much as it's your (theaveng's) fault for wanting OoT style gameplay in the new Zelda. I understand and accept this, and I realize I'm exaggerating what's wrong with OoT. I really like what OoT does right, but there's enough in the game that I just don't like that it's going to rank near the bottom of my favorite Zelda's. Namely, the I wanted to do in Ocarina of Time was explore and waste some time playing around and discovering things. The Skultchulla quest is a nice thing to have, the masks, and there's obviously some good hidden chambers and caves, but... I have this neverending desire to call Navi out into the open and take a huge swing at her with my sword.

Maybe that would help things...

But as I was saying, about the misconception, is that the Legend of Zelda is not a fast-paced level-based game. The whole reason Miyamoto made the first Zelda have what was then considered a really huge map was because we were to wander through it uncovering hidden caves, rooms, treasures, and eventually dungeons. Even the dungeons were nearly impossible to find at first (I still wonder aimlessly when I sit down to play the old Zelda after long periods of time away from it). Parts of the map were even a maze trap that stopped you from getting to the next dungeon so quickly. A Link to the Past was a progression of dungeons, but only if you wanted it to be. There were tons of hidden secrets across the map that required you to spend time running around playing with the world. I almost never went for all three pendents and the master sword right away. That was not "Act 1" as some people are referring to the act of collecting three symbols of valor like in Ocarina of Time. These simply are not acts. I never liked going for the master sword because Zelda disappeared and it meant I was catapulted into the Dark World where I'd be playing for a good while. I usually put off the third pendent so I could run around the map some, to do some exploring. By the time I finally stopped playing A Link to the Past for the most part, I even stopped going after the mastersword. Eventually, I didn't even bother to upgrade my sword since I could beat the game without the mastersword. I found a lot more pleasure in seeing how many different ways I could take advantage of the game's world, and I did the same thing with Super Mario World to the point that there's not a single thing that can be done in it that I can't do or haven't done. Now that's what I consider beating a game.

[mouse_clicker]

"So why do I find the Wind Waker to be... well, boring."

Because you have ADD. I don't know why you're bored by the game, but I know you're  in the minority. I just beat the game after a week of owning it and I have to say pretty much the only time I put down the game was to eat, sleep, and go to school.  

[VideoGamerX]

mouse_clicker, I hope you mean minority.

Hehe....

[mouse_clicker]

Ineed I did, Videogamer. Thanks for pointing that out.

[thecubedcanuck]

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Because you have ADD.  I don't know why you're bored by the game, but I know you're in the minority. I just beat the game after a week of owning it and I have to say pretty much the only time I put down the game was to eat, sleep, and go to school.

Now why throw in a personal attack?

The game is very boring to people who dont like this style of game. I loved it at first but am now bored out of my mind with it.
My job involves mass amounts of reading, looking at charts, and analysing stock prices, very very boring work for the most part.
Whne I find the time to unwind and play a game, I like a game that is the opposite of my real life. This IMO is why I would rather play timesplitters2 than Zelda or Prime, both are just to slow moving for what I want.

I think Zelda is very well done for the most part. It just isnt for me.

[theaveng]

I think the reason I like Ocarina more than WW is because Ocarina is the BEGINNING of the story.  It has the original characters, with an elaborate kingdom of varied races, and all the background information about the Triforces and the goddesses that originally created them.  I enjoyed unfolding the story and constantly striving towards the goal.

In contrast, I spent all last afternoon/evening wandering aimlessly around Wind Waker's Windfall Island and looking for fairy islands to upgrade my heart pieces/bottles.  It was interesting... I guess.  Okay, not really.  It was too slow-paced for my tastes.

Have you guys ever heard of a 1980's game called Pirates?  Probably not.  Well anyway, that game involved a lot of exploration in the Caribeean and along the Florida coast.  But it was fast-paced exploration.  You could play the entire game in a single day... and the exploration wasn't random.  You always had a goal:
- Find the Spanish Treasure Caravan and steal the gold.
- Sink French ships to help England win the war.  
- Woo governors' daughters and marry the most beautiful one possible.  
- Retire a rich man. :-)
So you see I DO enjoy exploration-type games, but the exploration has to serve a valuable purpose... not just collecting 50 rupees.

Troy (Sidles away)

[Hostile Creation]

I don't think your problem is the game, cubed.  You need a new job.